What do Americans think about the redneck revolt

[Dragon Angel]

Has that been tested in court yet? Because I'm pretty sure you'd struggle to sell most judges on the idea that something that offers almost exactly the same functionality as adding a full-auto sear by a different mechanism is anything but a modification to convert a gun to full-auto.

I remember during the Las Vegas incident there was discourse that had consistent statements saying modifying a gun to be a full automatic was illegal, full stop, whereas owning a bump stock and attaching it onto a semiauto didn't count toward that restriction.

Hence my total confusion and my stance. On the legal level, it would seem those two are not the same concept.

[Dragon Angel]

Seriously? You're going to pretend to not know what a fucking belt loop is? Or a pocket? Get the fuck out.

There is often terminology in one subject that overlaps terminology for other subjects. A "pocket", for all I know, is a term for another device that is directly related to firearms. A "belt loop" brought to mind belts of ammunition. They do not necessarily have to imply concepts related to clothing. Computer terminology does this all the time as well as other fields' terminology.

So yes, "seriously". No, it is not obvious to just namedrop those as if I'm supposed to know you're talking about parts of clothing or talking about gun accessories, just as it is not obvious that "net neutrality" to a computer illiterate means that a law backing it guarantees neutrality, instead of believing that law in itself contradicts its name.

I'll walk you through it. Pockets are those little pouches you can put things in. Most pants have one on each side at hip level. Now, you do know what pants are, right?

Belt loops are, as the name implies, little loops on your pants (you've figured out pants, right? They're those garments you put on over your legs) also at waist level that you, surprise surprise, put a belt through. You know what a belt is, right? They're useful for cinching up a too-large waistline, hanging things on, or simply rounding out a look. Since I've had to explain all this to you, I assume you now want to ban belts because most holsters attach to them, and people shouldn't be allowed military-style evil black assault ghost belts that obviously only exist to make killing other people easier.

Now, if one is so vile and evil as to own a military-style evil black 600 bullet a second murder machine forged in the blood of children and infused with demonic voices to make the wielder hunger for death and carnage you can hold the murder implement in such an evil manner as to hook you thumb (you do know what a thumb is, right? It's the bigger digit on the inside of your hands. Though now I'm assuming you know what hands are) though the belt loop at the side of your pants (uh-oh. That makes them assault pants!) keep your other hand on the evil black murder machine, slightly pull forward until the trigger of the sixty-thousand round a minute evil ghost gun catches and fires the murder machine. Keeping up that pressure with the forward hand (again, I'm still assuming you know what hands are) on the forward grip and the thumb of the hand holding the trigger hooked in the loop of the assault pants, the evil murdershooter can then "emulate automatic weapons fire."

Aside from the seething righteousness you have here, thank you for this information. I'll think it over and consider it.

Also, just to make it even more clear, yes, I am talking down to you.

Oh well, whatever. Honestly in addition to the new information I've been getting here, I've just been learning from this thread that trying to talk to a gun nerd would only result in my blood boiling. It's no wonder gun aficionados and anti-gun advocates have trouble listening to each other if aficionados decide that everyone in the world is supposed to know what the hell they're talking about. This reminds me of the worst of computer nerds.

If you want people to better understand why something matters in the world of firearms, then it's not exactly a good idea to make blanket assumptions that everyone understands you because this is an extremely polarizing subject that has an extremely large amount of viewpoints. Someone who is not casually familiar with guns will not be able to fully tell what is accurate and what is not.

[MKSheppard]

It all doesn't matter

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... s/table-12

Total Murders in the US and all territories in 2016:
15,070.

Total Murders Committed with Firearms:
11,004 (73% of all murders)

Total Murders committed with Handguns
7,105 (47% of all murders, 64% of all firearms murders)

Total Murders committed with Rifles
374 (2.5% of all murders, 3.4% of all firearms murders)

Total Murders committed with Shotguns
262 (1.7% of all murders, 2.4% of all firearms murders)

Total Murders committed with Firearms, Type Unknown
3,263 (21.7% of all murders, 29.7% of all firearms murders)

Murders Committed with Knives/Cutting Instruments (/Arnold Voice/)
1,604 (10.6% of all murders)

Murders committed with hands/feet (BRUCE LEE MODE)
656 (4.4% of all murders)

Basically, rifles make up 3.4% of all firearms murders; and this covers everything from Fudd Remington 700 to Winchester lever actions to ALUMINUM ALLOY ASSAULT RIFLES RAR HEAVY WEAPONS.

Yet, the Supreme Court has ruled that we have a constitutional right to possess a handgun (47% of all murders, 64% of all firearms murders) for self defense.

So why are we arguing over rifle murders, when we stab or beat to death people at greater rates than are killed with actual ALUMINUM ALLOY ASSAULT RIFLES RAR HEAVY WEAPONS.

[Raw Shark]

Not really.

To be effective in a very gun toting state, you'd have to do more than tote a Model 700 and prance around in blaze orange; that's so 35 years ago; and effectively what Democrats already do when they need to claim they are for the Second Amendment in a close election or whatever, pull out the "hunting" card. We're kind of wise to that now.

You need to go FURTHER. May I suggest Class III

I do live in a (very well-armed) purple state, where it could tip the balance. We were the first to legalize marijuana. We like our guns and our leftist values both.

And I ate squirrels that I shot. This is not a posture. THIS IS SPARTA!

[FaxModem1]

Better make it illegal to own both an AR-15 and pants with belt loops and/or hip pockets, then. Because that's all one needs to "emulate automatic weapons fire" with said rifle, and quite a few others.

Feel like continuing up this hill?

Maybe? Having little idea of how that would work I'd like it if you could explain them then and what consequences there would be in them being excessively caught in such a ban. Without such knowledge, this might as well be technobabble to me.

Google is your friend, I found this in two minutes.

[Dragon Angel]

Google is your friend, I found this in two minutes.

Interesting to know. So, it's less of an accessory that enables something and more of a technique that an accessory can help with.

Going to defend myself here again though, this was not something so obvious that "just google it" would have meant much, since well, my understanding of bump firing was of something that would be mechanically added to the gun. The Las Vegas incident was the first time I'd heard of bump fire stocks and in no way did people mention that bump firing was something you could achieve without an accessory.

I really don't know why people here can't fathom that this isn't common knowledge. It's like getting upset at someone for not precisely knowing how something works in a computer, when that someone probably doesn't know where to start imagining it. A computer may as well be magic to them.

I'm getting into the computer metaphors here because you would be a complete asshole to yell at someone for not perfectly understanding a computer. Many people are computer illiterate, and that's fine. Many people are also firearm illiterate. There is a reason why generally, you need a permit to own and carry a gun. If my understanding of bump fire was purely as accessories and not as a generalized technique, how would I know to search "how to bump fire" and not "using a bump fire stock"?

Taken further, how many people in the country are not aware of this at all?

Keep in mind also, the way Google is structured tends to give different people different search results.

God shit I hope you all don't act like this in the real world.

[MKSheppard]

I really don't know why people here can't fathom that this isn't common knowledge. It's like getting upset at someone for not precisely knowing how something works in a computer, when that someone probably doesn't know where to start imagining it. A computer may as well be magic to them.

So why are you advocating legislation that would make average people into felons, and then acting surprised when there's pushback against said legislation?

Particularly if said legislation is so poorly written that it opens all sorts of confusion?

Case in point:

Many gun control bills being pushed for bumpstocks, like SB74 in Maryland say:

“BUMP STOCK” MEANS ANY PART OR COMBINATION OF PARTS THAT IS DESIGNED AND FUNCTIONS TO INCREASE THE RATE OF FIRE OF AN ASSAULT WEAPON BUT DOES NOT CONVERT THE ASSAULT WEAPON INTO A MACHINE GUN

Guess what can "increase the rate of fire" of a semi auto?

All sorts of things like better trigger mechanisms (instead of horrible stock ones), different barrel lengths, etc, because those can increase the theoretical cyclic rate of the weapon.

But the above is so broadly written that "rate of fire" could mean almost anything from:

barrel shroud (standard on just about every modern rifle) that lets you hold it without burning your hand during repeated fire

magazines: obviously, bigger magazine, increased practical rate of fire

etc etc

Then there's the basic issue about bump stocks themselves. They work off basic physics -- semi automatic weapons redirect a certain percentage of the recoil from a weapon through a variety of ways (straight recoil operation or gas operation) and use that to cycle the action -- there's still a fair bit of recoil left over; and thus, if you hold a semi automatic rifle of any kind in the right manner; you can use the recoil of the weapon to pull the trigger for you.

It's basically how the shoelace/belt loop meme works; and it works on anything from a ARMALYTE to a Fudd semiauto hunting rifle.

There is a reason why generally, you need a permit to own and carry a gun.

You mean like a permit to own a handgun in Maryland? We've had that since 2013; yet our murder rate keeps staying sky high in baltimore; and it's against the law to buy a handgun out of state in the United States since 1968; and Maryland has required 100% universal background checks for handguns since oh, 1990 or so (roughly); so all the theoretical ways that gun control could reduce the crime rate are in play here in Maryland, and it's not working.

[Dragon Angel]

So why are you advocating legislation that would make average people into felons, and then acting surprised when there's pushback against said legislation?

Particularly if said legislation is so poorly written that it opens all sorts of confusion?

I'm going to assume you're just taking this moment to soapbox because this is something I've already answered.

Now I'm just fucking off from this discussion since it is only serving to exhaust me with every post.