Net Neutrality is Dead

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by Elheru Aran »

In brief: The Obama administration set up rules to prevent Internet providers from screwing with what was available to their customers. This is now a thing of the past. This board is probably more or less safe, as it's hosted in Canada... but expect websites and services located in the US to start having trouble. There is nothing, for example, preventing my Internet provider from deciding it doesn't want to host Netflix anymore, or partnering with Amazon to overwhelm people's browsing with ads. There is also nothing preventing right-wing (or, to be fair, left-wing) organizations from starting up their own Internet providers and censoring access to sites they feel objectionable.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense ... _what.html

On Thursday, the Federal Communications Commission voted to enshrine new policies that could radically change the way you use the internet. In a 3–2 vote on party lines, the agency decided to move forward with undoing Obama-era net neutrality rules, which prohibited internet providers, like Comcast or Verizon, from blocking access to websites or charging websites a fee to reach users at faster speeds.

Democratic commissioners who voted against Chairman Ajit Pai’s deregulatory agenda didn’t mince words. “I dissent. I dissent from this fiercely spun, legally lightweight, consumer-harming, corporate-enabling Destroying Internet Freedom Order,” said Commissioner Mignon Clyburn in her opening remarks at Thursday’s FCC meeting before the agency voted to ultimately abandon the net neutrality rules.

“This decision puts the Federal Communications Commission on the wrong side of history, the wrong side of the law, and the wrong side of the American public,” said Democratic Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel in her dissenting remarks.

"The internet is the greatest free market innovation in history," started Ajit Pai, the Trump-appointed chairman of the FCC in his speech before the final vote to ax net neutrality was finalized. "The main complaint the consumers have about the internet is not and has never been that their internet providers are blocking access to content," he continued, noting many Americans still don't have access to the internet, which he contends is the real problem. Pai has repeatedly said that net neutrality dissuades internet providers to invest in building out and expanding their network, yet Comcast, AT&T, and Verizon have all said on investor calls that they've been investing more in their networks since the net neutrality rules were orginally passed in 2015.

Pai's remarks were interrupted by a roughly 15-minute abrupt recess for security reasons. During the recess, reporters and spectators were ordered to clear the room and leave their belongings behind. After the recess, Pai also criticized rhetoric around the net neutrality. "It is not going to kill democracy," he said. The vote followed Pai's remarks.

Once the rules are enacted, which could happen as early as January 2018, internet providers can begin blocking access to websites or throttling connection speeds. They’ll just need to be “transparent” about how they are managing traffic on their network, according to the regulations crafted by Chairman Pai. If AT&T says in its user agreement that it may one day decide to block access to Netflix but give free access to HBO, it is free to do so. (And we all know how closely people read user agreements.) Internet providers will be able to set up what is essentially a two-way toll, charging subscribers to access the internet and charging websites to access users.

The most flush internet companies would likely get to set the price for the fast lane, which could relegate most websites—including smaller startups and struggling news organizations—to what is, in effect, a slower internet. This would help further entrench the power of the incumbent internet companies, like Facebook, Netflix, or Google.

Pai’s decision to kill the hard-won net neutrality rules, which have only been in effect since 2015, is sure to be challenged in court by public interest groups, which have been preparing their cases since the FCC released its draft of the rules the week of Thanksgiving. But a court case won’t necessarily stop internet service providers from starting to charge websites for priority access to subscribers—that would require an injunction, and it’s not clear that will happen.

One area where the FCC might face legal pushback is on the process leading up to Thursday’s vote. When the FCC wants to make a significant new policy change, it’s typically required to solicit input from the public to learn how the new rules will affect people and businesses across the country. But after Pai released his proposal to gut net neutrality in May, the public comment process was hit by a mysterious cyberattack, which is currently under a federal investigation. Then there were the public comments. Nearly 23 million comments have been submitted, but huge numbers of them may have been fraudulent. Thousands of bots submitted comments. Others were made under stolen identities (including the names of dead people). Hundreds of thousands came from Russian email addresses, and they mostly happened to be in favor of rescinding the open internet rules. All of these problems led members of Congress, as well as other FCC commissioners, to call for the FCC to delay Thursday’s vote until some of these serious irregularities could be accounted for and the public has a fair shot to weigh in. But that didn’t happen, which could give fuel for lawsuits challenging the net neutrality rollback.

“Federal agencies have to engage in a proper notice and comment process,” said Gaurav Laroia, policy counsel with Free Press, who says his group plans to challenge Pai’s net neutrality order in court. “The FCC has failed to remedy these problems and engage in the comments in a substantive way, which they are required to do.” Commissioner Clyburn noted in her remarks at the FCC meeting Thursday that the new net neutrality rules fail to cite even one of the millions of comments, letters, and calls the FCC received from the public about the repeal of net neutrality will mean for them.

The organic comments from real people, however, overwhelming opposed the FCC’s plan to kill net neutrality. That’s similar to what we saw in 2014 and 2015, when 4 million people weighed in to let the FCC, then led by an Obama-appointed commissioner, know they supported the agency’s proposal to enshrine net neutrality.

Once the rules are enacted, assuming there’s no injunction, it’s unlikely that the internet will change dramatically overnight. Instead, you may start to notice some differences gradually. Yelp might be slower to load than Google. CNN or Fox News might be faster, and thus more accessible, than your local newspaper’s website. Your favorite local restaurant may switch to just hosting its web presence on Yelp entirely instead of having its own website, which might be much slower to load. And before we know it, the internet may start to become a much more boring place, as we navigate away from smaller websites and new startups toward those already powerful platforms that can afford to pay fast-lane prices. One of the great promises of the internet has been that there’s no telling what someone might create next. But if internet providers aren’t required to treat all websites equally, that vibrant future will likely flicker out.
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Fuckers.

3/2 vote along party lines, of course. Just in case anyone still wants to use the "both parties are the same" argument.

New York Attorney General has apparently already filed suit against this decision.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
Zaune
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7455
Joined: 2010-06-21 11:05am
Location: In Transit
Contact:

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by Zaune »

Well, shit. Not that I'm really surprised. The decision was made long before anyone except techies and civil-liberties fundamentalists became aware of the issue, and any public consultation was purely pro forma.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)


Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin


Like my writing? Tip me on Patreon

I Have A Blog
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by The Romulan Republic »

The "public consultation'" involved literally millions of fake comments in support of abolishing Net Neutrality, so yeah.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
SolarpunkFan
Jedi Knight
Posts: 586
Joined: 2016-02-28 08:15am

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by SolarpunkFan »

There's still congress and the courts to go through. There's still time.
Seeing current events as they are is wrecking me emotionally. So I say 'farewell' to this forum. For anyone who wonders.
User avatar
Formless
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4141
Joined: 2008-11-10 08:59pm
Location: the beginning and end of the Present

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by Formless »

There will almost certainly be an injunction. Possibly up to a year long, on multiple grounds. Besides the procedural issue, I've read that they might have violated a previous court decision that states quite clearly that ISPs are by legal definition not publishers, and therefore cannot be sued for things like defamation; but the FCC's reasoning asserts the contrary. This might also light a fire up congress's ass to finally legislate on the issue.
"Still, I would love to see human beings, and their constituent organ systems, trivialized and commercialized to the same extent as damn iPods and other crappy consumer products. It would be absolutely horrific, yet so wonderful." — Shroom Man 777
"To Err is Human; to Arrr is Pirate." — Skallagrim
“I would suggest "Schmuckulating", which is what Futurists do and, by extension, what they are." — Commenter "Rayneau"
The Magic Eight Ball Conspiracy.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Yup, this will be settled in the courts.

I'd rather the current Congress not address it, though, because if anything they'll make it worse.

Best to let the outrage build, use it as a campaign issue in 2018, and then hopefully fix the problem with a blue Congress, if the courts don't get to it first.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
Rogue 9
Scrapping TIEs since 1997
Posts: 18639
Joined: 2003-11-12 01:10pm
Location: Classified
Contact:

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by Rogue 9 »

The board being in Canada won't protect it. Throttling would happen at the ISP's end, dependent on the location of the customer, not the website's server.
It's Rogue, not Rouge!

HAB | KotL | VRWC/ELC/CDA | TRotR | The Anti-Confederate | Sluggite | Gamer | Blogger | Staff Reporter | Student | Musician
darkjedi521
Youngling
Posts: 108
Joined: 2006-10-13 03:14pm
Location: Troy, NY

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by darkjedi521 »

Rogue 9 wrote: 2017-12-14 09:12pm The board being in Canada won't protect it. Throttling would happen at the ISP's end, dependent on the location of the customer, not the website's server.
It will happen at both ends - point of ingress to a US ISP and the customer. Because why charge once for access, when you can charge twice?
Ex ASVS lurker and sometimes poster
User avatar
Rogue 9
Scrapping TIEs since 1997
Posts: 18639
Joined: 2003-11-12 01:10pm
Location: Classified
Contact:

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by Rogue 9 »

Yeah, but if SDN gets throttled because Mike isn't paying Comcast, you really won't notice a difference on your end; it'll still be throttled.
It's Rogue, not Rouge!

HAB | KotL | VRWC/ELC/CDA | TRotR | The Anti-Confederate | Sluggite | Gamer | Blogger | Staff Reporter | Student | Musician
User avatar
Dragon Angel
Jedi Knight
Posts: 753
Joined: 2010-02-08 09:20am
Location: A Place Called...

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by Dragon Angel »

I wonder how much a VPN would bypass if the hypothetical becomes true?

I've been thinking of VPNs or tunneling via some other means like SSH as a way to bypass potential blocks or throttles. They kind of work in areas with massive censorship like China, but I've heard holes there have been becoming less and less open lately. They'd probably have to be something more or less privately owned by yourself or a friend sharing it, as services such as Private Internet Access would be instant targets.
"I could while away the hours, conferrin' with the flowers, consultin' with the rain.
And my head I'd be scratchin', while my thoughts were busy hatchin', if I only had a brain!
I would not be just a nothin', my head all full of stuffin', my heart all full of pain.
I would dance and be merry, life would be would be a ding-a-derry, if I only had a brain!"
Ralin
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4365
Joined: 2008-08-28 04:23am

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by Ralin »

Dragon Angel wrote: 2017-12-14 11:30pmThey kind of work in areas with massive censorship like China, but I've heard holes there have been becoming less and less open lately.
Correct. Some of it is seasonal (they had a Party Congress in October and most expats I heard from mentioned their VPNs worked substantially worse, as did mine), but just in general there has been a steady year by year decrease in how well commercial VPNs work in China. I'm told it's different for registered corporate VPNs, but that's not something I have personal experience with.

I suspect that for most people using a VPN to get around their American ISP throttling their bandwidth would be much more trouble than just dealing with the slower loading. And that's assuming the ISPs don't start just cutting you off any time they detect one.
bilateralrope
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5957
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by bilateralrope »

Why do you think that they wouldn't throttle VPNs ?
User avatar
The Infidel
Jedi Master
Posts: 1296
Joined: 2009-05-07 01:32pm
Location: Norway

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by The Infidel »

I wonder what this means for Europeans visiting American sites?
Image
Image
Where am I at in the post apocalypse draft? When do I start getting picks? Because I want this guy. This guy right here. I will regret not being able to claim the quote, "The first I noticed while burning weed, so I burned it, aiming at its head first. It wriggled for about 10 seconds. Too long... I then fetched an old machete [+LITERALLY ANYTHING]"
- Raw Shark on my slug hunting
User avatar
cosmicalstorm
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1642
Joined: 2008-02-14 09:35am

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by cosmicalstorm »

I'm really going to miss the internet wild west years of 1990s--> early 2010s.

But to be honest I have no sympathy.
I have witnessed copious amounts of arbitrary banning and censorship of right wing opinions on Facebook, Twitter, Google.
They killed of a lot of goodwill that way.

Probably this would have happened anyway.
Corporate Internets that throttle anyone who cannot pay up a billion dollars yearly, "Trusted Computers", apps that insta-ban you on thought crime is what I always expected.
User avatar
Formless
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4141
Joined: 2008-11-10 08:59pm
Location: the beginning and end of the Present

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by Formless »

The Infidel wrote:I wonder what this means for Europeans visiting American sites?
You may experience slowdowns as well. Those who put content online have an ISP to deal with too, so its not just the end-user who can get throttled. Write to your own elected officials, and ask them what, if any, diplomatic measures your government can take to prevent, say, Google from getting unfairly targeted because they support net neutrality and condemned this plan. Or to ensure that internet standards will be maintained, since net neutrality is also important to keeping the internet technology standardized; the ISPs certainly don't care about those kinds of things as long as their own networks function.

That's about all you can do. The internet is robust by design, so its not going to stop working from a technical standpoint, and in your country the net-neutrality laws may be stronger so that at least local infrastructure will keep working in the event that the courts and Congress fail to do their job and listen to the American people. But yes, even if you don't live in the US this will effect you if you use any kind of service based in the US-- and there are a fuckton of them, Google has even been sued by the EU for anti-trust violations and has over 90% of the market there. And its based in California.
cosmicalstorm wrote:I'm really going to miss the internet wild west years of 1990s--> early 2010s.

But to be honest I have no sympathy.
I have witnessed copious amounts of arbitrary banning and censorship of right wing opinions on Facebook, Twitter, Google.
They killed of a lot of goodwill that way.
Four out of five republicans are for net neutrality and against the FCC's plan to strip it away, so for once in your life would you stop being a misanthropic fuckwit?
"Still, I would love to see human beings, and their constituent organ systems, trivialized and commercialized to the same extent as damn iPods and other crappy consumer products. It would be absolutely horrific, yet so wonderful." — Shroom Man 777
"To Err is Human; to Arrr is Pirate." — Skallagrim
“I would suggest "Schmuckulating", which is what Futurists do and, by extension, what they are." — Commenter "Rayneau"
The Magic Eight Ball Conspiracy.
bilateralrope
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5957
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by bilateralrope »

The Infidel wrote: 2017-12-15 01:16am I wonder what this means for Europeans visiting American sites?
A lot of major websites have servers located all over the world for load balancing and to improve performance by having the server(s) closer to the people using them. So most people will be unaffected, as they are already using servers outside the US.

Those websites that only have servers inside the US are likely to be faced with a choice between remaining slow for non-US viewers or moving to a different web host. I'd expect a lot to move if it becomes a problem.
User avatar
Edi
Dragonlord
Dragonlord
Posts: 12461
Joined: 2002-07-11 12:27am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by Edi »

cosmicalstorm wrote: 2017-12-15 01:36am I'm really going to miss the internet wild west years of 1990s--> early 2010s.

But to be honest I have no sympathy.
I have witnessed copious amounts of arbitrary banning and censorship of right wing opinions on Facebook, Twitter, Google.
They killed of a lot of goodwill that way.

Probably this would have happened anyway.
Corporate Internets that throttle anyone who cannot pay up a billion dollars yearly, "Trusted Computers", apps that insta-ban you on thought crime is what I always expected.
How about you shut the fuck up about an issue you have absolutely zero understanding of?

What the killing of net neutrality means is that ISPs can (and will, even if not immediately) either restrict services that are not their own, or extrot money out of them to provide equal footing, in order to create walled gardens where users are required to use the ISP's own services and unable to use others. Of course, that is going to be more difficult with the likes of Netflix and others having sufficient muscle to put up a serious fight. Other completely arbitrary restrictions on what users can and cannot do unless they pay up will probably also be on the cards.

With net neutrality, the ISP is a pipe that traffic goes through and the customer pays for access to that pipe. If they also use other services provided by the ISP, those services wil compete on equal footing with everyone else and the best quality stuff will prevail.

Without net neutrality, you get shitty, arbitrary subpar service (especially where there are local or regional monopolies), restrictions and all the other wild west bullshit that went on for years in the US before emerging technologies made some of those harder to implement.

As far as censorship of right wing opinion (or other sorts of opinion) on Facebook or elsewhere, if those entities are private entities that have particular terms of service that forbid certain kinds of things and someone violates those, then fuck yes they will get censored and they can go set up their own rival service where they can run things as they like.

Get a fucking clue, cosmicalstorm.
Warwolf Urban Combat Specialist

Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
–Darth Wong to vivftp

GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan

The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
Patroklos
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2577
Joined: 2009-04-14 11:00am

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by Patroklos »

Were any of these doomsday scenarios unfolding just a few short years ago before the removed regulations were in place?
User avatar
Edi
Dragonlord
Dragonlord
Posts: 12461
Joined: 2002-07-11 12:27am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by Edi »

Patroklos wrote: 2017-12-15 09:11am Were any of these doomsday scenarios unfolding just a few short years ago before the removed regulations were in place?
There were all sorts of bullshit such as AT&T charging a 20 dollar tethering fee if you tried to share the internet connection from your mobile phone and other absurd restrictions. Those sorts of things are what the removal of the net neutrality regulations enables and if you think you can trust US corporations to not abuse the crap out of them, I have some tropical ocean front real estate in Mongolia I could sell you.

The US telecoms market is already abusive as all hell, with subpar service, extortionately high prices and the large telecoms are some of the most despised companies in the country.

Read up on the history of the US telco market before net neutrality and all the assorted crap that the ISPs have tried to pull. You won't be too sanguine about it once you do.
Warwolf Urban Combat Specialist

Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
–Darth Wong to vivftp

GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan

The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
User avatar
Civil War Man
NERRRRRDS!!!
Posts: 3790
Joined: 2005-01-28 03:54am

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by Civil War Man »

Patroklos wrote: 2017-12-15 09:11am Were any of these doomsday scenarios unfolding just a few short years ago before the removed regulations were in place?
Net Neutrality Violations: A Brief History
For years a lineup of phone- and cable-industry spokespeople has called Net Neutrality “a solution in search of a problem.”

The principle that protects free speech and innovation online is irrelevant, they claim, as blocking has never, ever happened. And if it did, they add, market forces would compel internet service providers to correct course and reopen their networks.

In reality, many providers both in the United States and abroad have violated the principles of Net Neutrality — and they plan to continue doing so in the future.

This history of abuse revealed a problem that the FCC’s 2015 Net Neutrality protections solved. Those rules are now under threat from Trump’s FCC chairman, Ajit Pai, who is determined to hand over control of the internet to massive internet service providers like AT&T, Comcast and Verizon:

MADISON RIVER: In 2005, North Carolina ISP Madison River Communications blocked the voice-over-internet protocol (VOIP) service Vonage. Vonage filed a complaint with the FCC after receiving a slew of customer complaints. The FCC stepped in to sanction Madison River and prevent further blocking, but it lacks the authority to stop this kind of abuse today.

COMCAST: In 2005, the nation’s largest ISP, Comcast, began secretly blocking peer-to-peer technologies that its customers were using over its network. Users of services like BitTorrent and Gnutella were unable to connect to these services. 2007 investigations from the Associated Press, the Electronic Frontier Foundation and others confirmed that Comcast was indeed blocking or slowing file-sharing applications without disclosing this fact to its customers.

TELUS: In 2005, Canada’s second-largest telecommunications company, Telus, began blocking access to a server that hosted a website supporting a labor strike against the company. Researchers at Harvard and the University of Toronto found that this action resulted in Telus blocking an additional 766 unrelated sites.

AT&T: From 2007–2009, AT&T forced Apple to block Skype and other competing VOIP phone services on the iPhone. The wireless provider wanted to prevent iPhone users from using any application that would allow them to make calls on such “over-the-top” voice services. The Google Voice app received similar treatment from carriers like AT&T when it came on the scene in 2009.

WINDSTREAM: In 2010, Windstream Communications, a DSL provider with more than 1 million customers at the time, copped to hijacking user-search queries made using the Google toolbar within Firefox. Users who believed they had set the browser to the search engine of their choice were redirected to Windstream’s own search portal and results.

MetroPCS: In 2011, MetroPCS, at the time one of the top-five U.S. wireless carriers, announced plans to block streaming video over its 4G network from all sources except YouTube. MetroPCS then threw its weight behind Verizon’s court challenge against the FCC’s 2010 open internet ruling, hoping that rejection of the agency’s authority would allow the company to continue its anti-consumer practices.

PAXFIRE: In 2011, the Electronic Frontier Foundation found that several small ISPs were redirecting search queries via the vendor Paxfire. The ISPs identified in the initial Electronic Frontier Foundation report included Cavalier, Cogent, Frontier, Fuse, DirecPC, RCN and Wide Open West. Paxfire would intercept a person’s search request at Bing and Yahoo and redirect it to another page. By skipping over the search service’s results, the participating ISPs would collect referral fees for delivering users to select websites.

AT&T, SPRINT and VERIZON: From 2011–2013, AT&T, Sprint and Verizon blocked Google Wallet, a mobile-payment system that competed with a similar service called Isis, which all three companies had a stake in developing.

EUROPE: A 2012 report from the Body of European Regulators for Electronic Communications found that violations of Net Neutrality affected at least one in five users in Europe. The report found that blocked or slowed connections to services like VOIP, peer-to-peer technologies, gaming applications and email were commonplace.

VERIZON: In 2012, the FCC caught Verizon Wireless blocking people from using tethering applications on their phones. Verizon had asked Google to remove 11 free tethering applications from the Android marketplace. These applications allowed users to circumvent Verizon’s $20 tethering fee and turn their smartphones into Wi-Fi hot spots. By blocking those applications, Verizon violated a Net Neutrality pledge it made to the FCC as a condition of the 2008 airwaves auction.

AT&T: In 2012, AT&T announced that it would disable the FaceTime video-calling app on its customers’ iPhones unless they subscribed to a more expensive text-and-voice plan. AT&T had one goal in mind: separating customers from more of their money by blocking alternatives to AT&T’s own products.

VERIZON: During oral arguments in Verizon v. FCC in 2013, judges asked whether the phone giant would favor some preferred services, content or sites over others if the court overruled the agency’s existing open internet rules. Verizon counsel Helgi Walker had this to say: “I’m authorized to state from my client today that but for these rules we would be exploring those types of arrangements.” Walker’s admission might have gone unnoticed had she not repeated it on at least five separate occasions during arguments.

The court struck down the FCC’s rules in January 2014 — and in May FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler opened a public proceeding to consider a new order.

In response millions of people urged the FCC to reclassify broadband providers as common carriers and in February 2015 the agency did just that. Since his appointment in January 2017, FCC Chairman Pai has sought to dismantle the agency's landmark Net Neutrality rules. He must be stopped.

In the absence of any rules, violations of the open internet will become more and more common.

Don’t believe me? Let history be the guide.
The 6 Worst Net Neutrality Violations in History

(NOTE: I snipped 1, 3, 4, and 5 from this article since they are already covered in the previous quoted article)
The ongoing fight over net neutrality has largely existed in the realm of the hypothetical.

While the principles underlying the whole concept of net neutrality have been in place for over a decade, open internet advocates’ argument that internet service providers (ISPs) must treat all the data going over their networks equally have primarily revolved around what could theoretically happen if ISPs had free reign to do pretty much whatever they wanted.

Let’s bring this debate out of the cloud of speculation and back into the realm of cold, hard facts.

There is ample history of ISPs taking actions that run counter to the spirit of net neutrality. From blocking certain internet applications that challenge their businesses to giving special privileges to their own proprietary content delivery mechanisms, the record of anti-net neutrality behavior from ISPs is anything but a fantasy. Here’s a look back at what happens when companies have their way with the internet.

2. Verizon blocks pro-choice text messages

In 2007, abortion rights group NARAL Pro-Choice America embarked on a fundraising campaign that took advantage of supporters’ ability to send monetary donations to the organization via text message. NARAL got the okay to conduct the campaign from every major cellular provider, save for one.

Verizon denied the request, telling NARAL that the company, ‟does not accept issue-oriented (abortion, war, etc.) programs—only basic, general politician-related programs (Mitt Romney, Hillary Clinton, etc.).”

The move, unsurprisingly, sparked an uproar from across the political spectrum. A coalition of nonprofit groups, from Planned Parenthood to the Christian Coalition, banded together to criticize Verizon, charging that the company’s censorship based on political content set a dangerous precedent.

Verizon quickly backpedaled, allowing NARAL to conduct its campaign and called the decision an ‟isolated incident.”

“The decision to not allow text messaging on an important, though sensitive, public policy issue was incorrect,” said Verizon spokesperson Jeffrey Nelson in a statement to the New York Times.

Even so, the company still reserved the right to pick and choose what information is sent over its network based on content because cellular carriers aren’t beholden to the same level of content neutral restrictions as telephone and broadband Internet providers.

6. Comcast’s Xbox data-cap exemption

Even though Comcast switched to using data caps as a way to manage congestion on its network, the company still found itself dinged for breaking net neutrality rules.

Starting in 2008, Comcast imposed a 250 gigabyte monthly data cap for all of its users. A few years later, however, the ISP announced a streaming service that could run through Microsoft’s Xbox gaming system. As a way to incentivize its customers to use its own app over third-party alternatives, Comcast said any data streamed through the service wouldn’t count against a user’s data restrictions.

Comcast argued that this move didn’t violate net neutrality rules because the content from its streaming service never actually traveled on the public Internet, which is technically true. In order to facilitate integration between its Xfinity on-demand service and Xbox consoles, Comcast struck a deal with Microsoft to allow all the data from its streaming app to travel exclusively over the telecom giant’s private network.

The result was that Xbox-owning Comcast customers had a strong incentive to use Comcast’s streaming service over ones operated by competitors like Netflix or Amazon because doing so wouldn’t put them in danger of incurring overage charges for exceeding their data caps.

Comcast’s policy drew the ire of consumer groups and the company eventually relented—ditching the concept of data caps altogether—but insisted that it did nothing wrong and reserved the right to exempt its own traffic from counting towards data caps.

Considering that a Comcast executive recently said that data caps will probably become the norm within the next five years, this issue is one that may soon return to the headlines.
Patroklos
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2577
Joined: 2009-04-14 11:00am

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by Patroklos »

So no, no doomsday.

So given the internet of the naughts was known until six months ago known as an unprecedented blossoming of the internet in an orgy of innovation and information exchage unparalleled in human history despite the same supposed evil actors having the exact same power then that is being returned to them now, why is there cause to predict the sky will fall this time around?

And I read those same lists before asking that question Civil War and the banality and irrelevance of all or them combined compared to the predictions of apocalypse (Oh no will SDN be blocked!) just prove my implied point. Despite having twenty years to ruin the internet all that happened was that.

the question isn't whether throttling and selective service will happen. It will and should. The question is whether it will matter. Given the nightmare that was 2007 where the internet was a useless censored echo chamber of untransparent curation and... oh wait it was none of that.
User avatar
Edi
Dragonlord
Dragonlord
Posts: 12461
Joined: 2002-07-11 12:27am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by Edi »

If you want to keep to your opinion that unfettered screwing over of customers is all well and good, that's your prerogative. Meanwhile the majority of us who work in this field professionally oppose destroying net neutrality because we know how all of this works and how anticompetitive it is.

I hope you get gouged good and proper when your ISP takes advantage of the license to do so that it has been given.
Warwolf Urban Combat Specialist

Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
–Darth Wong to vivftp

GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan

The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
User avatar
Esquire
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1581
Joined: 2011-11-16 11:20pm

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by Esquire »

So, umm... help me out here, I missed a lot of the early stages of this issue and now it's hard to find any information which isn't hysterically apocalyptic (possibly with justification, but no more readable for all that).

FCC just repealed some regulations which came in with Obama, right? Was the situation really that bad before those regulations were passed, and if not, why should we expect that to change now?
“Heroes are heroes because they are heroic in behavior, not because they won or lost.” Nassim Nicholas Taleb
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: Net Neutrality is Dead

Post by Simon_Jester »

The most likely reason to expect change is that the corporations in question are now assured of a sympathetic regulatory environment, which will not punish them for anti-competitive practices, thus making it safer to use such practices.
Rogue 9 wrote: 2017-12-14 09:12pm The board being in Canada won't protect it. Throttling would happen at the ISP's end, dependent on the location of the customer, not the website's server.
The most likely things to protect the board are:

1) It's pretty obscure, and
2) It's basically a big slab of text, so it doesn't put high demands on bandwidth.

For (1), basically there's no strong reason to try to limit access to something that only a few hundred people in the whole world actually use. Charging extra for access to every webforum on the Internet is likely to be more trouble than it's worth, compared to what you can rake in by charging extra for access to, say, known pornography sites.

And (2) The main economic incentive for corporations to charge extra for sites like Youtube and Netflix is that they use a ton of bandwidth and are therefore responsible for a disproportionate share of the corporation's operating costs. That isn't relevant to SDN.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
Post Reply