punching nazi

[mr friendly guy]

Allegedly he harassed a black man and then gets punched out
David Pakman describes the events

And that punch in question



The master race went down very fast. Faster than Kursk.

[The Romulan Republic]

Didn't we just have a thread on Nazi-punching?

I can't watch the video for some reason, so can someone tell me what "harassing" constitutes here? Because if the Nazi guy was being violent, or making serious threats of violence, then yeah, knocking him down might be justified.

If he wasn't, though, then punching him is dangerously escalating the situation (and also presumably a crime, though granted one that is not without provocation).

I'm just glad nobody involved pulled a gun.

And yeah, I admit that even I see the humour in "self-proclaimed master race easily gets its ass kicked". I expect that a lot of the people who talk the loudest about how superior they are actually are the most pathetic people in real life, though. Racism is a way to make yourself feel important when you don't actually have anything real to be proud of.

[mr friendly guy]

1. Yes we did have a punching Nazi thread. However this appears to be a more recent event so I posted it here for the interest of the board.

2. Could you not click on the video and follow the link to youtube?

3. The alleged harassing happens off screen. We only have video of the punch. The claim was posted on reddit and basically people track him down while he was still out to confront him over this harassing.

4. It reminds me of the scene from Highlander when Connor guns down an SS officer and says "whatever you say Jack, you're the Master race."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gU_NqsoOE0

[The Romulan Republic]

Okay.

Well, since we only have video of the punch, and not what lead up to it, I'll withhold my opinion on weather use of force was justified, pending further information.

On a somewhat tangential but related note, though, I do increasingly think that the best counter to Nazis is to make them look pathetic. Not necessarily through physical domination, though force may sometimes be necessary for self-defence. But through making them look ridiculous and pathetic.

I felt the same way about ISIS, as well. Now, I'm no psychologist, but with all the media talking about how ISIS is an existential threat, how its going to overrun us any day now... that makes them seem powerful. Impressive. Something that can take on the status quo that so many people are hostile to and win. Angry, frustrated people join extremist groups to give their sad lives meaning, because it makes the feel important and powerful. Nobody wants to take up arms and risk death for a sad joke.

Of course, ISIS is a threat, as are Nazis, so you can't ignore that. But I can't help but feel that focussing constantly on what a huge threat they represent is somehow playing into their hands.

If we can somehow show extremists for the pitiful, phallically-challenged sad sacks that they are, resorting to terrorism because they are weak, not because they are strong (and do that without making them seem like oppressed underdogs)... I think that they'd get less recruits.

Its just a thought, which I submit to be validated or torn apart by those of us who have a better understanding of human psychology than I do.

[Dragon Angel]

I'm sure making the Nazis look pathetic for several decades saved that woman from being killed by a death car and prevented that black man from being ganged up on and beaten almost to death.

I'm also sure that "ignore the bully" has been a time honored 100% effective tactic against all kinds of school bullies.

I suppose I'm "biased" toward the side of the people who punch Nazis, but I consider this to be an educated "bias" considering the history of these bags of shit.

If you can't tell, I'm being sardonic because I think this is a very tired line of argument. Dunno if I'll even continue this specific discussion since it's been rehashed ad infinitum here.

[Civil War Man]

I can't watch the video for some reason, so can someone tell me what "harassing" constitutes here? Because if the Nazi guy was being violent, or making serious threats of violence, then yeah, knocking him down might be justified.

Based on what I read about the incident, so I may be wrong about the details, he was yelling typical Nazi stuff, then called a black man an ape and threw a banana at him, then the person in the video (who apparently wasn't the person who had the banana thrown at him) decked him in the face and knocked him out.

[Zaune]

You know, even I have to admit that we might want to think long and hard before we normalise roughing someone up just for having an offensive slogan or symbol on their clothing. That precedent could be weaponised against left-wing hardliners, you know? And I say this as someone who thinks liberals should be forming their own armed militias with the specific intent of deterring voter suppression and extra-judicial killings with the threat of violent retaliation.

[Raw Shark]

Am I the only one who thinks the word "ape" is one of the most stupid insults possible? I've never personally had a very dark complexion, so I obviously cannot possibly compare my own experience to the one being discussed here, but I mean... I am an ape. I'm proud of it. I could've been a sea cucumber or an earthworm or some bullshit, but I won the genetic lottery and got to be a member of the big, more-or-less happy Hominidae family. Apes are the best thing to be. Dolphins and mice are pretty fucking cool and all, but show me one that has raped the atom or walked on the moon.

That said, throwing a banana at a person, while unlikely to cause serious harm, is technically assault (and possibly battery depending on your aim) in this country.

~~~~~

Not especially relevant, but funny Nazi story: My grandfathers were both in the Navy in WWII. My maternal one served in Europe, and brought back a ton of Nazi shit as memorabilia. Also his rifle. Not quite sure how he pulled it off, but there it is. After he died, my grandma went through his stuff in the attic and found a lot of things that I later showed my Dad how to sell on eBay, along with a bunch of 1940s-era potato masher grenades. She wrapped them up in a towel and brought them to the nearest cop shop, dropped them on the desk, and asked if they were dangerous. About six police officers freaked out and hit the deck. They closed her entire block and sent the bomb squad over with a dog and everything. She was the subject of neighborhood gossip for a while.

[Zaune]

After he died, my grandma went through his stuff in the attic and found a lot of things that I later showed my Dad how to sell on eBay, along with a bunch of 1940s-era potato masher grenades. She wrapped them up in a towel and brought them to the nearest cop shop, dropped them on the desk, and asked if they were dangerous.

Were they?

[Raw Shark]

Were they?

Shit man, by all reports that I've heard those things weren't very stable when they made them, let alone six decades in a sometimes-hot attic later. My grandma was lucky that she didn't kill several people, including herself. The main advantage to them is that they were more ergonomic, with better range and accuracy when employed by someone who has been trained to use them. The only reason Americans use the design that we do is expedience: every American boy and most of the girls already knows how to throw a baseball.

[The Romulan Republic]

I can't watch the video for some reason, so can someone tell me what "harassing" constitutes here? Because if the Nazi guy was being violent, or making serious threats of violence, then yeah, knocking him down might be justified.

Based on what I read about the incident, so I may be wrong about the details, he was yelling typical Nazi stuff, then called a black man an ape and threw a banana at him, then the person in the video (who apparently wasn't the person who had the banana thrown at him) decked him in the face and knocked him out.

Well, I guess throwing something at someone could be considered assault, even if it is something as non-threatening (albeit ridiculously racist, in this context) as a banana. So you can say the Nazi metaphorically threw the first punch, maybe.

I'm not saying its justified use of force, but I'm not saying it isn't. I wouldn't want to throw the book at the guy who slugged him, and I'm certainly not going to be crying over the Nazi.

[Flagg]

Allegedly he harassed a black man and then gets punched out
David Pakman describes the events

And that punch in question



The master race went down very fast. Faster than Kursk.

Poor guy. Hope he didn’t hurt his hand.

[Alyrium Denryle]

OK. I am unconvinced of this thread's merit in this particular forum. I am considering tossing it into the off-topic forum. However, if we can have a substantive discussion about... I don't know... the merits of the People of Reddit tracking down a Nazi and arranging his cold-cocking <insert necrophilia joke>, or something worthwhile I will with-hold judgement on that topic. Mostly because I am reluctant to lock or move threads. Consider this one on-notice.

That said, Kane Starkiller is not on notice. He and those posts directly connected to his are being HOSed as soon as I manage to get the posts collated.

[Gandalf]

Am I the only one who thinks the word "ape" is one of the most stupid insults possible? I've never personally had a very dark complexion, so I obviously cannot possibly compare my own experience to the one being discussed here, but I mean... I am an ape. I'm proud of it. I could've been a sea cucumber or an earthworm or some bullshit, but I won the genetic lottery and got to be a member of the big, more-or-less happy Hominidae family. Apes are the best thing to be. Dolphins and mice are pretty fucking cool and all, but show me one that has raped the atom or walked on the moon.

As someone who has been called an ape for racial reasons, you've missed the mark completely.

It means that you're not human, but somewhere close. There's a society and that you don't belong in it. People like you belong behind fences, in zoos or in the wild. It's fucking vile.

[TheFeniX]

Am I the only one who thinks the word "ape" is one of the most stupid insults possible?

No, honestly "white boy" is way past there as are some others. But as Gandalf posted: you're missing the point. Same thing by saying "boy" is a stupid insult: They aren't meant to be smart, they are meant to be degrading.

As for my own dealing with Nazi related bullshit. My brother started in again about how they aren't that bad and liburals are worse.... whatever.

"I don't want to hear this. It's dumb. I don't associate with anyone who thinks "Hitler did nothing wrong' is anything but a bad joke."
"But, in..."
"You're fucking defending the same people who were shooting at Papa on Normandy. What the fuck? And we got plenty of Jew blood in us and considering our last name, these people are your friend up until they can find a time to get rid of you."
"You don't understand them. They aren't Nazi like that."
"How "like that" are these Nazis? The fucking guy you're talking about has a Swastika tattoo. I understand them QUITE well. And I totally get you think you can pass for white, because we are. We are up until people like that let the brakes off the murder-mobile. And how fucking long are your 1/4 Hispanic kids going to last? Especially since <his wife> has like THE most Hispanic name out there. You're defending literal Nazis because you're mad at some whiny liberals calling you a racist on Facebook. This isn't a good thing and not for the reason you think."
"Ok, look. If you'll just read this post."
"No, I'm fucking done. Don't talking Internet bullshit with me, I know more than you here. I grew up on the Internet. I'm done with your links to hate groups spouting lies. I'm not going to enable your bullshit. There's nothing to argue about. <our family> ran the Hell out of Germany 100 years ago from this kind of bullshit. You're defending fucking Nazis here man, I'm not having this conversation again."

Surreal. And this guy WORSHIPS my dad's dad. Thinks of him more as a father than our father (God rest his soul (EDIT: our grandad, Dad is still alive and kicking and immune to this "NAZIS ARE COOL NOW" Bullshit /EDIT)) and he's over here trying to find common ground with literal Nazis. And my mom... she refuses to believe people running around spouting Swastikas are Nazis. THAT'S just "a few bad eggs" but man, everytime she reads a BLM tweet she doesn't like "THEY'RE ALL RACISTS FENIX! THEY ALL HATE US WHITES!"

BONUS ROUND: Our aunt (my mother's sister) did a DNA check for giggles a few months back. We're 1/10th (give or take) black.

There is not a facepalm emote strong enough for this level of "WTF is wrong with people?"

[Lord Revan]

Am I the only one who thinks the word "ape" is one of the most stupid insults possible? I've never personally had a very dark complexion, so I obviously cannot possibly compare my own experience to the one being discussed here, but I mean... I am an ape. I'm proud of it. I could've been a sea cucumber or an earthworm or some bullshit, but I won the genetic lottery and got to be a member of the big, more-or-less happy Hominidae family. Apes are the best thing to be. Dolphins and mice are pretty fucking cool and all, but show me one that has raped the atom or walked on the moon.

As someone who has been called an ape for racial reasons, you've missed the mark completely.

It means that you're not human, but somewhere close. There's a society and that you don't belong in it. People like you belong behind fences, in zoos or in the wild. It's fucking vile.

Yeah racist calling someone an "ape" is meant to mean "you're not man but a beast", It's from the same root as the policy of counting people of color as only 2/3 men in the past, it's a way for these people to deny right of black (and other minorties for that matter) to be judged as human beings. I'd say vile isn't powerful enough a term for how disgusting that is but it'll have to do for now until a better a term is invented.

[Simon_Jester]

Yeah racist calling someone an "ape" is meant to mean "you're not man but a beast", It's from the same root as the policy of counting people of color as only 2/3 men in the past,

Ahem. Nitpick.

That one was not, weirdly, a "dehumanize blacks" thing. It was a "slave states make naked political power grab" thing. For purposes of representation in the House, the southern states wanted to be able to count their slaves as part of their population, despite the fact that obviously none of the slaves got to vote for the congressmen elected to 'represent' them. The northern states, with smaller slave populations and increasing pro-abolition sentiment, opposed this.

The compromise was to add 60% of the slave population to the free population of the state. This gave the southerners the advantage they wanted (which played a significant role in letting them push pro-slavery policies for the first half of the 19th century)... But it didn't give them all the advantage they wanted.

...it's a way for these people to deny right of black (and other minorties for that matter) to be judged as human beings. I'd say vile isn't powerful enough a term for how disgusting that is but it'll have to do for now until a better a term is invented.

With you on this.

Am I the only one who thinks the word "ape" is one of the most stupid insults possible?

No, honestly "white boy" is way past there as are some others. But as Gandalf posted: you're missing the point. Same thing by saying "boy" is a stupid insult: They aren't meant to be smart, they are meant to be degrading.

As for my own dealing with Nazi related bullshit. My brother started in again about how they aren't that bad and liburals are worse.... whatever.

"I don't want to hear this. It's dumb. I don't associate with anyone who thinks "Hitler did nothing wrong' is anything but a bad joke."
"But, in..."
"You're fucking defending the same people who were shooting at Papa on Normandy. What the fuck? And we got plenty of Jew blood in us and considering our last name, these people are your friend up until they can find a time to get rid of you."
"You don't understand them. They aren't Nazi like that."
"How "like that" are these Nazis? The fucking guy you're talking about has a Swastika tattoo. I understand them QUITE well. And I totally get you think you can pass for white, because we are. We are up until people like that let the brakes off the murder-mobile. And how fucking long are your 1/4 Hispanic kids going to last? Especially since <his wife> has like THE most Hispanic name out there. You're defending literal Nazis because you're mad at some whiny liberals calling you a racist on Facebook. This isn't a good thing and not for the reason you think."
"Ok, look. If you'll just read this post."
"No, I'm fucking done. Don't talking Internet bullshit with me, I know more than you here. I grew up on the Internet. I'm done with your links to hate groups spouting lies. I'm not going to enable your bullshit. There's nothing to argue about. <our family> ran the Hell out of Germany 100 years ago from this kind of bullshit. You're defending fucking Nazis here man, I'm not having this conversation again."

Surreal. And this guy WORSHIPS my dad's dad. Thinks of him more as a father than our father (God rest his soul (EDIT: our grandad, Dad is still alive and kicking and immune to this "NAZIS ARE COOL NOW" Bullshit /EDIT)) and he's over here trying to find common ground with literal Nazis. And my mom... she refuses to believe people running around spouting Swastikas are Nazis. THAT'S just "a few bad eggs" but man, everytime she reads a BLM tweet she doesn't like "THEY'RE ALL RACISTS FENIX! THEY ALL HATE US WHITES!"

BONUS ROUND: Our aunt (my mother's sister) did a DNA check for giggles a few months back. We're 1/10th (give or take) black.

There is not a facepalm emote strong enough for this level of "WTF is wrong with people?"

I am deeply sorry you have to suffer through that.

It is deeply alarming and disturbing to me how many Americans, despite decades of blowing up Nazis in movies and videogames and having World War Two be like the ONE DAMN THING we actually remember from history, seem willing to put up with neo-Nazis, and make excuses for them, as soon as they turn out to be Donald Trump supporters.

You'd fucking think that if there was one thing our historical mythos was good for inoculating us against, it'd be Nazis.

[Dragon Angel]

Heck, we have an entire superhero that is literally named after the country whose main villains are literally Nazis. He punches them on the regular.

But ... there are people who would prefer to handwave the Holocaust as globalist lies anyway so what do I know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Lord Revan]

Yeah racist calling someone an "ape" is meant to mean "you're not man but a beast", It's from the same root as the policy of counting people of color as only 2/3 men in the past,

Ahem. Nitpick.

That one was not, weirdly, a "dehumanize blacks" thing. It was a "slave states make naked political power grab" thing. For purposes of representation in the House, the southern states wanted to be able to count their slaves as part of their population, despite the fact that obviously none of the slaves got to vote for the congressmen elected to 'represent' them. The northern states, with smaller slave populations and increasing pro-abolition sentiment, opposed this.

The compromise was to add 60% of the slave population to the free population of the state. This gave the southerners the advantage they wanted (which played a significant role in letting them push pro-slavery policies for the first half of the 19th century)... But it didn't give them all the advantage they wanted.

I'm aware of all this, my point is however that the whole thing came from the fact that the Southern states didn't want to count blacks as "people", so the root cause is the same even if it isn't directly obvious.

[Abacus]

In my opinion simply seeing someone dressed as a Nazi or professing to be one is enough of a threat to justify punching them. I also feel almost the same level of distaste and abhorrence for anyone who says that they are or support the KKK.

When it comes to any other philosophy or way of thinking, calm discussion and debate should be enough. But in the face of the racism and extremism displayed by Nazis and white supremacists? Nope. Punch them and keep on doing it until they're gone.

[TheFeniX]

I am deeply sorry you have to suffer through that.

It's so goddamn "funny" because these conversations are like those you have with that annoying family member who's all "vegan" or whatever and won't shut up about it. We just roll with it because our family is weird. But outside that it's like "WTF is with these people?" If we were anyone else to each other, my brother is not the kind of guy to put up with "shut the fuck up you moron." We'd come to blows over it and he'd most likely win.

My mom hasn't cut me off even though I've had to say to her almost verbatim the same shit about the Internet. These people know dick all about anything "real" on the Internet and have the gall to try and tell me what's what. I fucking live here, they're just tourists. My mom is now so mad her shit is getting flagged, she's trying to show me anything that portrays snopes in a poor light. As if I give a shit.

Family is fucking family I guess.

It is deeply alarming and disturbing to me how many Americans, despite decades of blowing up Nazis in movies and videogames and having World War Two be like the ONE DAMN THING we actually remember from history, seem willing to put up with neo-Nazis, and make excuses for them, as soon as they turn out to be Donald Trump supporters.

NO SHIT! In Texas, we get a healthy serving of Texas Bullshit, but WW2 is like... the ONLY war that mattered outside the Revolutionary War. And we're quick to side with Nazis because....? This is where I'm at. What, WHAT REASON? Women and minorities can now make both valid and moronic points about racism and sexism on them Interwebs? Did we desensitize ourselves due to so much Nazi iconography? Do we feel bad we've made Hollywood and gamers kill so many Nazi characters?

For my brother, maybe it's having to deal with so many opinions in a format where:
A. other actors have thick enough skin to laugh off his bullshit and respond in kind.
B. he can't punch them.

[Raw Shark]

My "apes kick ass" commentary was an attempt to mock neo-Nazis, not to make light of racism. I get why it's a problem. Sorry if I offended any victims of discrimination.

[Civil War Man]

The compromise was to add 60% of the slave population to the free population of the state. This gave the southerners the advantage they wanted (which played a significant role in letting them push pro-slavery policies for the first half of the 19th century)... But it didn't give them all the advantage they wanted.

Just a side note to illustrate how much this affected early American politics. Consider that, in the beginning, Virginia was one of the most populous states in the US, and had more slaves than some states had free citizens, so it had a disproportionately large number of electoral votes (despite people claiming that the EC was made to help small states). And, just by sheer coincidence, 4 of the first 6 Presidents were Virginian. 4 of the first 6 Presidents were also elected for a second term, who just so happen to be the same 4 Virginians from the previous sentence. The only 2 Presidents from that time period who were not Virginian were also the only 2 who were not reelected, and they were both a part of the OG New England political dynasty.

In my opinion simply seeing someone dressed as a Nazi or professing to be one is enough of a threat to justify punching them. I also feel almost the same level of distaste and abhorrence for anyone who says that they are or support the KKK.

When it comes to any other philosophy or way of thinking, calm discussion and debate should be enough. But in the face of the racism and extremism displayed by Nazis and white supremacists? Nope. Punch them and keep on doing it until they're gone.

As far as I'm concerned, hate groups like them are the political organization equivalent of yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater. Their speech doesn't deserve to be protected because the only purpose of that speech is to cause harm.

[Akumz Razor]

http://kuow.org/post/record-wednesday-september-20

The guy who got punched was interviewed by Seattle's NPR station yesterday if anybody is interested in hearing his take on things. It's the last segment of the hour, unfortunately there is no text version.

[TheFeniX]

As far as I'm concerned, hate groups like them are the political organization equivalent of yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater. Their speech doesn't deserve to be protected because the only purpose of that speech is to cause harm.

The breaking point has generally been "imminent harm." I'm torn on this. Even as a proponent of free speech, I don't want bullshit like this around. But at what point do I expect the government to pull the plug?

The Die Cis Scum Die rant (which was not satire) and "Castration Day" (which pretty obviously was). I've read pieces about how we need more wars so more white men can die in them, thus making the world a better place. Where do those fit in? In my experience, Law Enforcement is terrible at dealing with satire, sarcasm, or just people being mad and blowing off steam. I'm just not a fan of giving them greater power to enforce what they view as acceptable speech. Not with the people currently in charge or with those that might be in charge in the future.

And U.S. Law Enforcement definitely comes down on the more fascist side of government support. So, there's just no way I can support expansion of free speech restrictions because it won't be used to target the people it needs to. Look at how much leeway this country already gives to conservative hate speech versus bringing the hammer down on "commie hippies."

Unrelated sidenote: I also recall a prominent argument against feminism not 5 years ago being something in the vein of "Not all Nazis worked in concentration camps, but they were still Nazis. Not all feminists write man-hating garbage, but they are still feminists. CHECKMATE!"

The irony is sadly apparent. In their efforts to curtail the idea that women and minorities are now allowed to rant and assemble as angrily and numerous as they do, they have sided with literal fucking Nazis. And even the older crowd seems to have come around on Putin over a few issues because he's willing to call brute squads on homosexuals.

What an age.