'We're getting out' - Donald Trump confirms US exit from landmark global climate change deal

[Gerald Tarrant]

The best reason to leave it is that it's un-ratified and has no force of law in the United States without that step. We call this constitutional government. Or perhaps you'd prefer the executive be given more power to make law without the oversight of the legislature? I think Trump is a perfect example of why that might be contraindicated.

[Beowulf]

For the reason Gerald says above, I don't think you can count on the withdrawal taking until 2021. Obama never had it ratified by the senate, so arguably its never actually been in effect in the US. And so it's just a stroke of a pen to make it never happen. Maybe is Obama had done so, it would be 2021 or later to withdraw.

[Patroklos]

Fortunately, Trump's posturing may amount to nothing, because a lot of people are responding to his announcement by going, "Fuck you, we're abiding by the accords, anyway."

Imagine that, local governments/businesses/citizens making what they want happen via market forces and exercising free will without the interference and coercion of national government.

This is supposed to be a vindication of the Paris climate deal?

[The Romulan Republic]

Fortunately, Trump's posturing may amount to nothing, because a lot of people are responding to his announcement by going, "Fuck you, we're abiding by the accords, anyway."

Imagine that, local governments/businesses/citizens making what they want happen via market forces and exercising free will without the interference and coercion of national government.

This is supposed to be a vindication of the Paris climate deal?

Yes, actually, since the Paris deal has provided a point for them to rally around, and a standard for them to aspire to. Symbols, even ones with no legal force, matter greatly in politics.

Moreover, it is an indictment of the Donald and his cabal of corrupt businessmen, bigots, and Russian puppets that progress is being made despite the worst efforts of the US government, and not with its assistance.

Yes, its wonderful that local governments and private organizations and individuals are willing to take the initiative and do the right thing. Its just a shame that they must do so in spite of, and not with the support of, their own federal government.

[jwl]

Sigh...

I do wish that whenever Trump does anything, people would stop ranting about it and try to see how they can turn the situation to their advantage.

Okay, Trump pulled out of the Paris deal. But he said he wants to renegotiate a new deal. Maybe some people would win Trump around to making a deal with similiter constraints on the US at the price of greater constraints on other countries. Then this would benefit the climate overall.

Also, how about green tariffs? Trump likes tariffs. Maybe someone could convince him to introduce a tariff whose value is pegged to the percentage contribution to total global carbon emissions (so, say, China contributes to 27% of global emissions so they get a 27% tariff)? That would hit China the hardest because of China has the largest population, which is good from Trump's perspective because it hurts China, but it would also be an incentive for all other countries to reduce their carbon footprint.

Why doesn't someone convince Trump to ban foreigners from the oil industry from entering the country? That would be good from Trump's perspective because they would come mostly from the middle east, working as a proxy Muslim ban; but would also be an incentive against people in those other countries working in the oil industry.

[mr friendly guy]

Also, how about green tariffs? Trump likes tariffs. Maybe someone could convince him to introduce a tariff whose value is pegged to the percentage contribution to total global carbon emissions (so, say, China contributes to 27% of global emissions so they get a 27% tariff)? That would hit China the hardest because of China has the largest population, which is good from Trump's perspective because it hurts China, but it would also be an incentive for all other countries to reduce their carbon footprint.

1. This would force a trade war, which is not good for the world. Other countries will then put tariffs on goods from the US.

2. China's emissions per capita is less than the US. That's hardly fair taxing people who produce less. But regardless of the fairness, it leads to point one.

3. China is the largest producer of solar and also wind. From the environment perspective its good if cheap Chinese renewables are available for use. No literally the prices of solar panels dropped 80% from 2008 to 2013 because of Chinese solar production. A tariff would cause prices of solar to go up, which puts a disincentive for people to adopt solar.

And Trump might like to talk about putting up trade barriers and tariffs, but has he actually done anything other than talk the talk?

Why doesn't someone convince Trump to ban foreigners from the oil industry from entering the country? That would be good from Trump's perspective because they would come mostly from the middle east, working as a proxy Muslim ban; but would also be an incentive against people in those other countries working in the oil industry.

Not really. Trump's Muslim ban didn't ban people from the KSA but banned people from Muslim countries which didn't have citizens committing acts of terror against the US. Some of these countries, eg Pakistan aren't exactly known for their oil industry. The ban is lets face it, to get Trump to look tough on terror. It didn't do shit all to the KSA and he ain't likely to target the KSA.

[Simon_Jester]

Sigh...

I do wish that whenever Trump does anything, people would stop ranting about it and try to see how they can turn the situation to their advantage.

Okay, Trump pulled out of the Paris deal. But he said he wants to renegotiate a new deal. Maybe some people would win Trump around to making a deal with similiter constraints on the US at the price of greater constraints on other countries. Then this would benefit the climate overall.

Trump will always say he wants new deals, because that's the only thing he knows. Literally his entire relevant job experience consists of him making sequences of one-on-one deals, swaps, and trades that somehow leave him on top, usually by rampantly bullshitting the other relevant parties in the dealing process.

One of the largest problems with Trump's style of governing a country is that he doesn't actually know how to govern. He just knows how to unilaterally make deals. Most of the president's power exists as a function of his ability to make plans in conjunction with experienced advisers, or to bring together other elected leaders. Trump has no idea how to do any of that. What he knows is how to call up people involved in New York real estate development. Or how to convince a bank to give his company a big loan. Things like that.

Functioning as one gear in a larger machine, even as the gear that moves and makes the other gears move, is foreign to him. His concept of organization is "the bunch of people who exist to do what I say and run interference for me so I can do what I want."

There's no way to 'clever' our way around this, because the problem is simply that the man is a complete bozo. Dubya at least sort of knew how to be a governing official because he'd worked with other officials in Texas to get things done-ish. Trump? No goddamn clue. Advertised it during the campaign as a strength of his!

This is the real reason government can't be run like a business- or at least not Trump's kind of business.

[Thanas]