Brexit and General UK politics thread

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Eternal_Freedom » 2019-05-23 02:29pm

Same here, though you can swap the Greens for Plaid Cymru.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by mr friendly guy » 2019-05-24 07:04am

Well the coming of June has ended May. Come on, you guys would have made that pun about Theresa May resigning in early June after the Brexit debacle. :D
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Crazedwraith » 2019-05-24 07:28am

BBC
Theresa May has said she will quit as Conservative leader on 7 June, paving the way for a contest to decide a new prime minister.

In an emotional statement, she said she had done her best to deliver Brexit and it was a matter of "deep regret" that she had been unable to do so.

Being prime minister had been the "honour of my life", she said.

Mrs May said she would continue to serve as PM while a Conservative leadership contest takes place.

It means she will still be prime minister when US President Donald Trump makes his state visit to the UK at the start of June.

Mrs May announced she would step down as Tory leader on 7 June and had agreed with the chairman of Tory backbenchers that a leadership contest should begin the following week.

Boris Johnson, Esther McVey and Rory Stewart have said they intend to run for the party leadership, while more than a dozen others are believed to be seriously considering entering the contest.

The prime minister has faced a backlash from her MPs against her latest Brexit plan, which included concessions aimed at attracting cross-party support.

Andrea Leadsom quit as Commons leader on Wednesday saying she no longer believed the government would "deliver on the referendum result".

Mrs May met Home Secretary Sajid Javid and Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt at Downing Street on Thursday where they are understood to have expressed their concerns about her proposed withdrawal bill.

In her statement on Friday, she said she had done "everything I can" to convince MPs to support the withdrawal deal she had negotiated with the European Union but it was now in the "best interests of the country for a new prime minister to lead that effort".

She added that, in order to deliver Brexit, her successor would have to build agreement in Parliament.

"Such a consensus can only be reached if those on all sides of the debate are willing to compromise," she said.


Mrs May's voice shook as she ended her speech saying: "I will shortly leave the job that it has been the honour of my life to hold.

"The second female prime minister, but certainly not the last.

"I do so with no ill will, but with enormous and enduring gratitude to have had the opportunity to serve the country I love."

Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn said she had been "right to resign" and that the Conservative Party was now "disintegrating".

A series of Conservative MPs praised Mrs May following her statement.

Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt said she was a "true public servant":

Chief whip Julian Smith praised her commitment to the country as "outstanding":

And Chancellor Philip Hammond said it had been a "privilege" to serve alongside her:

Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon wished her well despite "profound disagreements", including on Brexit, but added: "The prospect of an even more hardline Brexiteer now becoming PM and threatening a no-deal exit is deeply concerning.

"Added to the experience of the past three years, this makes it all the more important that Scotland is given the choice of becoming an independent country."
Apparently just she's been holding out just to beat Gordon Brown's length of tenure.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Zaune » 2019-05-24 12:37pm

And before you all break out the champagne, apparently the leading candidate for her succession is... wait for it... Boris Johnson.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Coop D'etat » 2019-05-24 03:56pm

If there was a conceivable option within the Conservative party able to build a workable political coalition out of the Brexit mess, May wouldn't have gotten the job in the first place.

I don't think there's a concievable leader able to build a political coalition for getting out of the Brexit mess outside the Conservative Party either. Both May and Corbyn are terrible at their jobs compared to the previous baseline of British prime ministers and opposition leaders, but nobody else was in a position to force them out and do a better job either. Hence years wasted muddling along without direction.

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2019-05-25 03:11am

Yeah right, the EU only said they liked Corbyns suggestions for a brexit (i.e. soft brexit and customs union) and would have been willing to reopen negotations with those kinds of changes. You need to watch less propaganda.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-25 03:13am

Good riddance to May, surprised it took this long given her litany of utter failure as a leader. Shame she'll probably be replaced by someone just as bad or worse.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by K. A. Pital » 2019-05-25 04:36am

King Boris, let madness reign.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Vendetta » 2019-05-25 04:40am

His Divine Shadow wrote:
2019-05-25 03:11am
Yeah right, the EU only said they liked Corbyns suggestions for a brexit (i.e. soft brexit and customs union) and would have been willing to reopen negotations with those kinds of changes. You need to watch less propaganda.
In terms of being able to negotiate outside the country, Corbyn would do a better job. Though it's hard to do a worse job than Theresa "stuck record" May.

But inside the UK he's dithered and sat on the fence far too long over Brexit to look like he could effectively lead anything. Plus of course there are enough tories who would vote against him on the principle that it was him, and ones who will vote down absolutely any deal at all because they only want Absolute Brexit (and especially don't want a customs union even though that's basically required to solve the Northern Ireland border issue unless someone works out how to attract migrant labour from fairyland to get pixies to do all the border checks by magic), and a few remainers who will also vote down anything because they think the default is no Brexit.

Basically, it's fucked whoever is leader because Parliament cannot achieve a majority for anything. It's double fucked if it's someone like Boris because you can be sure he'll do his best to sidestep parliament for a hard Brexit, firm in the knowledge that any consequences therefrom will be borne by the poor.

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Crazedwraith » 2019-05-25 04:42am

K. A. Pital wrote:
2019-05-25 04:36am
King Boris, let madness reign.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2019-05-25 10:18am

Vendetta wrote:
2019-05-25 04:40am
His Divine Shadow wrote:
2019-05-25 03:11am
Yeah right, the EU only said they liked Corbyns suggestions for a brexit (i.e. soft brexit and customs union) and would have been willing to reopen negotations with those kinds of changes. You need to watch less propaganda.
In terms of being able to negotiate outside the country, Corbyn would do a better job. Though it's hard to do a worse job than Theresa "stuck record" May.

But inside the UK he's dithered and sat on the fence far too long over Brexit to look like he could effectively lead anything. Plus of course there are enough tories who would vote against him on the principle that it was him, and ones who will vote down absolutely any deal at all because they only want Absolute Brexit (and especially don't want a customs union even though that's basically required to solve the Northern Ireland border issue unless someone works out how to attract migrant labour from fairyland to get pixies to do all the border checks by magic), and a few remainers who will also vote down anything because they think the default is no Brexit.

Basically, it's fucked whoever is leader because Parliament cannot achieve a majority for anything. It's double fucked if it's someone like Boris because you can be sure he'll do his best to sidestep parliament for a hard Brexit, firm in the knowledge that any consequences therefrom will be borne by the poor.
There has been attempts to paint him as dithering but his and labours stance has been pretty clear in my opinion, dithering is what the people say who don't like the stance is my observation. But he has the british media against him and that is about as reliable as the russian one. That's why Labour does a lot better once a GE is announced and these media laws come into effect, still polling well despite that and the antisemitic smear campaigns that have been running. He's also not completely devoted to brexit and soley brexit but keeps bringing up actual important issues that affect the poor, such as school funding and whatnot, which I have seen tried to be used as a mark against him by a clueless commentariat.

I also believe that in polling tests, labour has been hit harder by people wanting brexit than remain, but they can't please everyone and that's fucking impossible anyway. And IIRC I believe there were even some indications showing that his version of soft brexit would've actually passed in parliament back when Theresa May tried pushing her garbage deal through like the 2nd time so there are absolutely no guarantees.

OT but Labour has been putting ot absolutely A-game stuff.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2019-05-25 03:24pm

I'm less concerned with May leaving than I am about her potential replacement, though ITV has been quick to point out that it's been decades since the favourite candidate has actually gone on to become Tory leader. I think if the next leader is a remainer they should have the balls to stand up to the Brexit-supporting MPs, but then such a candidate wouldn't get the necessary number of votes to begin with.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2019-05-25 04:08pm

The problem is the Tory party promised roses and sunshine and are also internally divided. They cannot deliver a turd into a toilet bowl. They could, perhaps, deliver Corbyns deal in all but name if they could get soft brexit wing of the tory party along with labour and others to vote for it. Really a GE ought to be called. Not like the tory party can get any deader.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2019-05-25 04:11pm

Also Ed Miliband killed someone with this

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2019-05-26 10:56pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:
2019-05-25 04:08pm
The problem is the Tory party promised roses and sunshine and are also internally divided. They cannot deliver a turd into a toilet bowl. They could, perhaps, deliver Corbyns deal in all but name if they could get soft brexit wing of the tory party along with labour and others to vote for it. Really a GE ought to be called. Not like the tory party can get any deader.
UKIP promised the same thing, only the reality is looking very different. The next Tory leader probably would be stupid enough to repeat May's mistake in calling an election and lose even more ground. If the results of the MEP elections are anything to go by, calling a GE would be the worst thing they could do in giving the Brexit party a shot at getting into parliament while they have some momentum.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by mr friendly guy » 2019-05-27 01:39am

Guess who didn't win a seat for the UKIP party?

Youtuber Carl "I wouldn't even rape you" Benjamin, aka Sargon of Akkad.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-05-27/tom ... come-meps/
YouTuber Carl Benjamin, who was second on Ukip’s South West regional list, also failed to get elected.

Mr Benjamin was surrounded in controversy throughout the campaign for comments he made about Labour MP Jess Phillips.

The 39-year-old who styles himself online as the “Sargon of Akkad” said he “wouldn’t even rape” the Labour MP and refused to apologise for the remarks.

In the South West, Ukip received 53,739 votes which meant the party lost its two MEPs there, down 29.07% on the 2014 vote.
I just want to say, I wouldn't even throw milkshake at Sargon. Unless the milkshake tasted crap. :lol:

For those who don't get the joke, a lot of high profile right wing guys from Tommy Robinson and Sargon got milkshake thrown at them. Apparently it triggers the right, with apparently one commentator who I watch for amusement commenting that the Left aren't ready for the escalating violence throwing milkshakes will entail. Hmm, a pro EU MP murdered and a woman run down by a car in Charlottesville, and they are worried about milkshakes being thrown at them? Not saying throwing milkshakes at right wingers are good, but wasting a good milkshake seems mild compared to you know, being murdered.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by mr friendly guy » 2019-05-27 01:53am

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-27/ ... l/11151784
RELATED STORY: Tens of thousands rally against nationalism before EU votesRELATED STORY: Merkel says Europe needs to 'stand up' against far right as Austrian government falls
Parties committed to strengthening the European Union have held on to two-thirds of seats in the EU Parliament, official projections from the bloc's weekend elections show, though far-right and nationalist opponents saw strong gains.


In the UK, partial results showed Nigel Farage's Brexit Party storming to victory, riding a wave of anger at the failure of Prime Minister Theresa May to take Britain out of the European Union.
The Brexit Party came first while explicitly pro-EU parties — the Liberal Democrats, Greens and Change UK — were, combined, a few percentage points behind.

In total, Britain will elect 73 MEPs (Members of the European Parliament) to the 751-seat parliament.
Mr Farage, who as UKIP leader convinced Mrs May's predecessor, David Cameron, to call the Brexit referendum and then helped lead the campaign to leave the EU, has said that if Brexit is not implemented then Britain will be shown not to be a democracy.

Former English Defence League leader Tommy Robinson — who had milkshakes thrown over him twice during the campaign — failed to secure a seat in the North West region, attracting just 2.2 per cent of the vote, according to the BBC.
Say what you like about Farage, but his political acumen seems on point when he split with UKIP over Tommy Robinson and his new party has been rewarded. It remains to be seen whether his political skills extend into negotiation as well winning elections.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-27 01:59am

So he's that most dangerous of things, a politically-competent fascist?

God help us.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Crazedwraith » 2019-05-27 04:58am

So North West. 3 Brexit Party. 2 labour, 2 lib dem and 1 Green. Discounting labour because who knows their position that is about half brexit and half remain.

If you treat this as a rerun of the ref well nothing has changed it's still rough 50/50.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by mr friendly guy » 2019-05-27 05:33am

To TRR. For all its worth, Farage quit UKIP because their candidates were not likely in his opinion to appeal to mainstream. Sargon of Akkad seems more extreme than Farage IMO.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-27 10:26am

mr friendly guy wrote:
2019-05-27 05:33am
To TRR. For all its worth, Farage quit UKIP because their candidates were not likely in his opinion to appeal to mainstream. Sargon of Akkad seems more extreme than Farage IMO.
So he's one of the ones who peddles Fascism Lite, opening the doorway for the eventual introduction of the more extreme variety.

And being less extreme than the guy who uses "I wouldn't rape you" as an insult is definitely damning with faint praise.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by mr friendly guy » 2019-05-27 11:10am

I didn't say I agreed with his views. I have no strong feelings towards Brexit, but as someone interested in geopolitics, Brexit and the challenge the EU faces from so called populists is kind of a big deal, so I try to stay abreast of things.

While UKIP got idiots youtubers and candidates who are so controversial that they bring more baggage than benefits (eg Tommy Robinson), Farage at the start distanced himself from this so all that shit associated with these candidates didn't touch him.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Civil War Man » 2019-05-28 11:59am

Vendetta wrote:
2019-05-25 04:40am
(and especially don't want a customs union even though that's basically required to solve the Northern Ireland border issue unless someone works out how to attract migrant labour from fairyland to get pixies to do all the border checks by magic)
Even that won't solve the problem, since one of the big fears surrounding this whole debacle is that as soon as the border goes up, you're going to start seeing pixies getting shot and the fairy glades where they conduct the border checks bombed.

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2019-05-29 01:42pm

Boris Johnson ordered to appear in court to answer allegation he lied over £350m NHS Brexit claim.
Boris Johnson will be summonsed to court over accusations he was lying when he said the UK gave the EU £350 million a week - a charge private prosecutors believe amounts to misconduct in public office.

The favourite to win the Tory leadership race faces a private prosecution by campaigner Marcus Ball.

Lawyers representing Mr Ball lodged an application to summons Mr Johnson to court, claiming he had deliberately misled the public during the Brexit referendum campaign in 2016 and then repeated the statement during the 2017 general election.

Dominic Raab, who is running against Mr Johnson in the leadership contest, made similar claims during the referendum campaign and sidestepped a question from ITV News about whether he would stand by his rival in court to defend the claims.

He said: "I do worry a little bit about the timing of this. The cut and thrust of democratic debate ought to be decided by your viewers rather than in court."
It's no use debating a moron; they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

Just because you have the attention span of a fruit fly doesn't mean the rest of us are so encumbered.

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Coop D'etat » 2019-05-30 07:38pm

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... e-party-48
In the 19 years that YouGov has been asking the public how they would vote in general elections there have been only two occasions when neither Labour nor the Conservatives occupied the top spot. The first was in the run up to the 2010 election, after the first ever Prime Ministerial debate, when two consecutive YouGov polls showed the Liberal Democrats in first place.

The second occasion is today. After an impressive performance in last week’s European Parliament elections, our latest polling for The Times has the Liberal Democrats in first place on 24%, marginally ahead of the second-placed Brexit Party on 22% (whose ranking at any other time would have been a story in itself). Meanwhile the Conservatives and Labour are in joint third on 19%.
Voter intentions
LibDem: 24%
Brexit: 22%
Labour: 19%
Tory: 19%

As of right now, the UK two-party system that has reigned since WW2 is disintegrating under the stresses to Brexit. Normally the tire fire of a government under May would benefit the opposition, but Labour is coming apart at the seems themselves.

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