Brexit and General UK politics thread

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SolarpunkFan
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by SolarpunkFan » 2019-03-29 08:25pm

SolarpunkFan wrote:
2019-03-29 08:25pm
Ace Pace wrote:
2019-03-29 11:05am
What next? Seriously, what does Britan in the end of April look like?
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by GrosseAdmiralFox » 2019-03-29 10:55pm

... my 'A New World' setting is not supposed to become reality you idiots! All this is going to do is to twist the screws more! Do you want to loose everything within two decades or more you Parliament critters (including your lives!)? This is just how you get into the situation where you loose everything.

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by bilateralrope » 2019-03-30 12:21am

EnterpriseSovereign wrote:
2019-03-29 09:15am
Not one of whom will have the balls to revoke Article 50 because they know it'll piss off a large percentage of the electorate. And doing the opposite will piss off the rest. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't. Anyone who actually wants the position with the way things are really must have a screw loose- wouldn't surprise me if Boris Johnson threw his hat into the ring.
If you're screwed either way, why not do the right thing ?

But that would be the sensible way out.
Ace Pace wrote:
2019-03-29 11:05am
At this point, the British lawmakers have rejected
No Deal Brexit
EU approved Brexit
A variety of fantasy Brexit agreements
A 2nd referendum
A delay of Brexit

What next? Seriously, what does Britan in the end of April look like?
I'm worried that the arguing will continue until the EU decides it's sick of the squabbling and makes the decision without the UK's agreement.

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Crazedwraith » 2019-03-30 07:09am

bilateralrope wrote:
2019-03-30 12:21am
EnterpriseSovereign wrote:
2019-03-29 09:15am
Not one of whom will have the balls to revoke Article 50 because they know it'll piss off a large percentage of the electorate. And doing the opposite will piss off the rest. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't. Anyone who actually wants the position with the way things are really must have a screw loose- wouldn't surprise me if Boris Johnson threw his hat into the ring.
If you're screwed either way, why not do the right thing ?
Because people honestly can't decide what the right thing is? I'm making the assumption here than the Brexiter's views, while I consider wrong, are genuinely held and thought to be for the good of country.
Ace Pace wrote:
2019-03-29 11:05am
At this point, the British lawmakers have rejected
No Deal Brexit
EU approved Brexit
A variety of fantasy Brexit agreements
A 2nd referendum
A delay of Brexit

What next? Seriously, what does Britan in the end of April look like?
I'm worried that the arguing will continue until the EU decides it's sick of the squabbling and makes the decision without the UK's agreement.
They don't even have to do much. Just refuse to extend the arrangement again and boom, the UK drops out with no deal.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by SolarpunkFan » 2019-04-01 05:53pm

Off-topic, but could somebody delete the accidental double post I made at the top of this page?
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Crazedwraith » 2019-04-02 03:05am

Well parliament had a busy day yesterday down-voting every possible compromise and option suggested.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by LaCroix » 2019-04-02 06:01am

Looking through some of the insane proposals they voted on, I do have an inkling that they still believe they can just vote on something they like, and immediately, the EU will agree to it, just because Britain says so...
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Vendetta » 2019-04-02 07:09am

LaCroix wrote:
2019-04-02 06:01am
Looking through some of the insane proposals they voted on, I do have an inkling that they still believe they can just vote on something they like, and immediately, the EU will agree to it, just because Britain says so...
That's been the operating principle of the Leave campaign since the beginning.

It's rooted in a misunderstanding that has plagued British government interactions with Europe for decades. They have basically wilfully ignored the fact that Europe negotiates as a unified whole and assumed that they can negotiate with national governments independently.

A lot of the "it'll be fine" brexit rhetoric was based on the idea that we'd be negotiating with Germany over car exports and France over wine and they'd all put their own national interest ahead of European interest (because that's what the British goverment would claim to be doing when it puts the interest of whatever capitalist or rentier class it is working for ahead of European interest).

And then all 26 other European nations stood up for Ireland over the border question and refused to budge, which rather blindsided the British government, and especially the Brexiteers who are driving the direction of it, because they were fundamentally incapable of conceiving that this would happen.

To add to that we have a PM for whom the term "inflexible" seems woefully inadequate, who is trying to govern like an autocrat even when she has no majority and no loyalty from her party and just trying the same thing over and over because doing otherwise is so far outside of her capabilities as a person that you might as well ask her to fly to the moon by flapping her arms.

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-02 07:40am

So basically, the Brexiters are incapable of understanding the motivations or behaviour of anyone who isn't an "I've got mine, fuck everyone else" nationalist like they are?
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Crazedwraith » 2019-04-11 08:15am

Now it is extended to the 31st of October. It never ends.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-11 08:18am

Guess the EU decided to extend some undeserved mercy. Well, undeserved by the British government. I'd like to think it'll help the ordinary people caught in this mess, but odds are they Parliament will simply squander this second chance.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Bernkastel » 2019-04-11 09:12am

Most likely, yes. I'd also like to think we're not screwed in regards to this here in the UK, but I've seen no sign so far that any of this has changed the minds of anyone who matters.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Crazedwraith » 2019-04-11 12:23pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-11 08:18am
Guess the EU decided to extend some undeserved mercy. Well, undeserved by the British government. I'd like to think it'll help the ordinary people caught in this mess, but odds are they Parliament will simply squander this second chance.
It's not exactly mercy on their part it's in their self interest to have a deal. Just not as good a deal as being in the EU. As I understand it No deal hurts them as well, though not nearly as much as it will hurt us.

Partly inherently but partly because they've been preparing for it competently ahead of time unlike HM's Government.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Civil War Man » 2019-04-11 12:39pm

I wouldn't be surprised if the EU constantly agreeing to extend the deadline is less out of mercy for the UK (though there could definitely be that) and more that not forcing the issue keeps the Irish border open.

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2019-04-11 05:44pm

I'm glad the EU went for a longer extension, the last one didn't do jack shit, that's for sure. And anything that pisses off the Brexit Bunch is just a bonus! :mrgreen:
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by LaCroix » 2019-04-11 06:21pm

Yes, it's pretty much for Ireland's sake. Ireland is still a member state, and a border popping up might bring back the troubles. If having another extension might prevent that, it's worth it.

The actual exit deal from the EU side won't change by much, if at all - this is just so the MP's can realize that they can't get what they want, and agree to a deal that at least contains a kind of solution to the Irish border problem. (Not as if ther could ever be a good one, given the situation)
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by B5B7 » 2019-04-11 08:31pm

It also gives Britain breathing room to rethink their Brexit decision, because now they can use the extra months provided to calm down and actually look at the issue and analyze how Britain will be affected.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Batman » 2019-04-11 08:45pm

B5B7 wrote:
2019-04-11 08:31pm
It also gives Britain breathing room to rethink their Brexit decision, because now they can use the extra months provided to calm down and actually look at the issue and analyze how Britain will be affected.
Yeah, because they did so much of that in the repeatedly extended time they were given before this latest extension.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Crazedwraith » 2019-04-12 03:48am

Batman wrote:
2019-04-11 08:45pm
B5B7 wrote:
2019-04-11 08:31pm
It also gives Britain breathing room to rethink their Brexit decision, because now they can use the extra months provided to calm down and actually look at the issue and analyze how Britain will be affected.
Yeah, because they did so much of that in the repeatedly extended time they were given before this latest extension.
It was extended once from 29th of March to the 12th of April afaik.

That we've not changed our mind in three years since the referendum is more damning.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Bernkastel » 2019-04-12 04:39am

Yes, we've had plenty of time to come to any realization in regards to Brexit. Instead, whenever I encounter a radio or see a newspaper, it still often will involve some bit of news where some pro-brexit person is declaring brexit to be the will of people and that anyone who questions it hates the British people and doesn't believe in their capability to make Britain great. In fact, that was one story that kept up being repeated yesterday where I am, of an MP raging about the watering down of brexit and that the government should believe in the British people.

I doubt we're going to suddenly have any rethinking if we're at this point and still have people going "Full hard Brexit! We'll smite any difficulties with our plucky Brit beams!". No, we'll just have more Brexiteer screaming at anti-Brexit people and more of them screaming at each other for not having a good brexit plan. Then either there will be another extension to put off the potential restarting if the troubles or we have a hard Brexit. Then the Brexit crew will blame the EU and the anti-Brexit crowd for sabotaging Brexit.

That's what I expect will happen.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by mr friendly guy » 2019-04-13 08:12am

Hey, Farage is creating a new Brexit party. I guess he couldn't stand Tommy Robinson. :D

I was being facetious obviously. Farage has stated his reasons for the new party and they relate to his dissatisfaction with the Brexit process.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Tribble » 2019-04-13 12:24pm

mr friendly guy wrote:
2019-04-13 08:12am
Hey, Farage is creating a new Brexit party. I guess he couldn't stand Tommy Robinson. :D

I was being facetious obviously. Farage has stated his reasons for the new party and they relate to his dissatisfaction with the Brexit process.
One of the reasons why the EU should have stuck to the deadline IMO. Brexit supporters have no qualms getting elected then trying to screw the EU over as much as possible from the inside.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Crazedwraith » 2019-04-13 12:33pm

Fuck, I hope his new party fails. They've got a good chance in the MEP elections though. UKIP and even the BNP do well there. I think my MEP was BNP at once point.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Zaune » 2019-04-13 06:12pm

Oh, it gets better. The Gamergate conspiracy nutbar, fascist-adjacent polemicist and overall disgrace to the good name of Swindon who calls himself "Sargon of Akkad" is running for office in the European elections, on the UKIP ticket.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by mr friendly guy » 2019-04-13 07:38pm

Zaune wrote:
2019-04-13 06:12pm
Oh, it gets better. The Gamergate conspiracy nutbar, fascist-adjacent polemicist and overall disgrace to the good name of Swindon who calls himself "Sargon of Akkad" is running for office in the European elections, on the UKIP ticket.
Well if a substitute drama teacher can become leader of Canada, I guess a failed video game developer can become a member of Parliament. I mean its not like Sargon does a lot of research for his videos, ie I question how well he understands the issues. The only thing going for him is his British accent (but then I am Australian and we do perceive British accents as upper class), but that won't help where everyone speaks with a cool accent. :D
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