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Minischoles
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by Minischoles »

EnterpriseSovereign wrote:Sadly it looks like derailing car crash Brexit is too much to hope for.
Maybe, maybe not - the DUP are in favour of a very soft Brexit, nowhere near what the hard line Tories want. It will be interesting as the Tory back benches and the DUP have completely opposing views on Brexit, and both can scuttle the government if they want to.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by bilateralrope »

Minischoles wrote:
EnterpriseSovereign wrote:Sadly it looks like derailing car crash Brexit is too much to hope for.
Maybe, maybe not - the DUP are in favour of a very soft Brexit, nowhere near what the hard line Tories want. It will be interesting as the Tory back benches and the DUP have completely opposing views on Brexit, and both can scuttle the government if they want to.
How close are their positions to what the EU wants ?
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by FireNexus »

Now that article 50 has been enacted, wouldn't scuttling brexit require requesting new entry? A request that would probably not go over well since they'd probably be forced to join the currency union and lose whatever other special benefits hey got initially.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by Wild Zontargs »

IIRC, the EU had been making noises about allowing an "undo button" if the election resulted in a different government. Not sure that they'd offer that to a Conservative-led coalition, though. If that falls apart and a Labour-led coalition forms, maybe.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by Vendetta »

streetad wrote:
VX-145 wrote:Secondly, May's majority (with the DUP) is something like 2 or 3 seats. Well, back in April, it was revealed that about 24 sitting Conservative MPs were under investigation for criminal charges. Now, I'm not sure what the rules are or even how many of those ~24 got elected, but all it takes is two or three getting taken down and replaced by Labour/Lib Dem/Green/Monster Raving Loony Party (yes that exists) candidates for May's gamble to turn into a complete and total omnishambles, as opposed to the fuckup it currently is.
That has already largely resolved itself with the CPS having dropped the charges against all but one guy. I don't know whether he has a seat or not still.
Yeah, he kept his seat so that investigation could potentially trigger a byelection, but it's a pretty safe Tory seat anyway.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by Zaune »

Oh, tell me I did not get home from an overnight stay in hospital to find out the Tories are going into coalition with the political wing of an Irish pro-union terrorist group...
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by Vendetta »

Zaune wrote:Oh, tell me I did not get home from an overnight stay in hospital to find out the Tories are going into coalition with the political wing of an Irish pro-union terrorist group...
Oh I'm sure the Daily Mail will disabuse you of the notion that they were ever terrorists in short order. It's that other guy that's all matey with terrorists, the DUP's energetic little supporters were just engaging in robust political demonstration.

(Of course, the DUP are also climate change deniers, hate the gays, and don't think women should have any kind of control of their reproductive organs, so it's not like they've not got lots of current baggage to cause problems. But then Theresa May is a horrid old baggage, so maybe that's why she's so eager?)
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by Zaune »

You're not helping.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Well the Tory knife-sharpening has already begun. Caught one re-elected Tory MP on Radio 2 about lunchtime saying, and I roughly paraphrase, that "the campaign was going great until May released the new manifesto." He also called it "the worst manifesto we've ever had to campaign on."

Ouch.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by Iroscato »

Zaune wrote:Oh, tell me I did not get home from an overnight stay in hospital to find out the Tories are going into coalition with the political wing of an Irish pro-union terrorist group...
That's exactly what happened. Drink it all in, baby.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by streetad »

One odd little wrinkle is that this puts paid to any attempt to correct the constitutional anomaly (the West Lothian question) that allows Scottish MPs to vote on issues like education and the NHS that have been devolved to Holyrood and therefore only involve England. Up until now the Tories have been the only party showing any genuine interest in tidying this up as the current situation directly benefited everyone else. Now the Tories need their Scottish MPs to have a chance of winning any votes.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by Zaune »

Iroscato wrote:That's exactly what happened. Drink it all in, baby.
BRB looking up drug interactions between flucloxacillin and alcohol.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by Vendetta »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Well the Tory knife-sharpening has already begun. Caught one re-elected Tory MP on Radio 2 about lunchtime saying, and I roughly paraphrase, that "the campaign was going great until May released the new manifesto." He also called it "the worst manifesto we've ever had to campaign on."

Ouch.
Oh they're coming right out and saying it too.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 82441.html
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by Crazedwraith »

Unless it's buried under the Tory stuff, I've heard remarkably little bellyaching from Labour that Corbyn lost and should be resigning because of it, as well.

I thought they had their knives already well sharpened for it.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

I think that may have something to do with the fact that while he hasn't won, he has gained, people are actually respecting him as a politician now, and perhaps most importantly the huge surge in young people voting - and voting Labour. That may show the PLP that yeah, maybe this guy is ok after all.
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Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by His Divine Shadow »

He blew their brains and they are left evaluating their life choices.

Image

He ran a fantastic campaign in every sense of the word and just shattered the bullshit fake narrative they had been running against him and his style of politics for years. It was just incredible to see how the tone changed over the election, and this morning I had to tune in british radio and listen on my phone as I drove to work so I could laugh the whole way there.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by Vendetta »

Essentially all the received wisdom of the PLP that Corbyn's popular support and/or a leftist manifesto wouldn't matter in a general election turned out to be complete bollocks and actually rather a lot of people seemed to want to vote for it, even young people who don't usually vote (turnout was something like 72% in 18-25s).

So they'll probably shut up for a while.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Elfdart wrote:Jon Schwarz has the best line on this:

https://twitter.com/tinyrevolution/stat ... 6731880448
Leftists have to admit that Corbyn and Sanders's success has nothing to do with their platforms, they both just possess unstoppable charisma.
Corbyn strikes me as a decent, honest man of principle -or as close to one as you can get among elected officials- no naturally the Blairites tried to pull a DNC on him and did their best to fuck him over at every turn, smearing him even worse than the Tories did. Like their American counterparts, "New Labour" decided that losing to the Right was preferable to winning with the Left. Only this time Corbyn got out the vote and has a good chance of forcing a second election -one he has an even better chance of winning.

Oh, and the Guardian can go fuck themselves sideways with a rusty crowbar. They smeared Corbyn for two years and now they want to jump on the bandwagon. Assholes.
This irritates me. Not that charisma isn't an important part of Sander's and Corbyn's success- indeed, its often vital in politics. But reducing it to just that, and saying it has nothing to do with platform, sounds like a desperate attempt by the Centre establishment types to pretend that they're just a one-off fluke, an anomaly, rather than acknowledge that their is deep and widespread dissatisfaction with Centrist Corporatist politics generally.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by Minischoles »

Vendetta wrote:Essentially all the received wisdom of the PLP that Corbyn's popular support and/or a leftist manifesto wouldn't matter in a general election turned out to be complete bollocks and actually rather a lot of people seemed to want to vote for it, even young people who don't usually vote (turnout was something like 72% in 18-25s).

So they'll probably shut up for a while.
I imagine there are a lot of red faced Labour MPs who have made phone calls to Corbyn this morning to apologise - even Owen Smith has come out and admitted he was wrong.

If the PLP finally shut the fuck up and accept him, the next election is there's for the losing - Corbyn did all of this with an incredibly hostile media, an opposition party literally suggesting he was a terrorist and his own party happily stabbing him in the front back and sides; all while scrapping together a shadow cabinet, that still isn't completely full.

Imagine how well he will do with an actual party behind him.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Vendetta wrote:
Zaune wrote:Oh, tell me I did not get home from an overnight stay in hospital to find out the Tories are going into coalition with the political wing of an Irish pro-union terrorist group...
Oh I'm sure the Daily Mail will disabuse you of the notion that they were ever terrorists in short order. It's that other guy that's all matey with terrorists, the DUP's energetic little supporters were just engaging in robust political demonstration.

(Of course, the DUP are also climate change deniers, hate the gays, and don't think women should have any kind of control of their reproductive organs, so it's not like they've not got lots of current baggage to cause problems. But then Theresa May is a horrid old baggage, so maybe that's why she's so eager?)
Well, they sound like a wonderful match for the Cons.

And probably one that will thoroughly piss off every voter who's not an utter troglodyte.

Fingers crossed that the coalition falls apart in short order and Corbyn becomes PM by the end of the year.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Crazedwraith wrote:Unless it's buried under the Tory stuff, I've heard remarkably little bellyaching from Labour that Corbyn lost and should be resigning because of it, as well.

I thought they had their knives already well sharpened for it.
I'd imagine its because where May had a majority, went in promising a huge majority, and ended up weakening her party's position, Corbyn had very low expectations going and vastly strengthened his party's position. He didn't win it all, but it would be damn hard to spin this election as a failure on his part.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by jwl »

Vendetta wrote:
streetad wrote:
VX-145 wrote:Secondly, May's majority (with the DUP) is something like 2 or 3 seats. Well, back in April, it was revealed that about 24 sitting Conservative MPs were under investigation for criminal charges. Now, I'm not sure what the rules are or even how many of those ~24 got elected, but all it takes is two or three getting taken down and replaced by Labour/Lib Dem/Green/Monster Raving Loony Party (yes that exists) candidates for May's gamble to turn into a complete and total omnishambles, as opposed to the fuckup it currently is.
That has already largely resolved itself with the CPS having dropped the charges against all but one guy. I don't know whether he has a seat or not still.
Yeah, he kept his seat so that investigation could potentially trigger a byelection, but it's a pretty safe Tory seat anyway.
Even so, the Tories are going to be feeling nervous at every one of their by-elections from now on. When you add the DUP they have a pretty slim majority, and they'll be struggling to push many things through as it is.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by jwl »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Well the Tory knife-sharpening has already begun. Caught one re-elected Tory MP on Radio 2 about lunchtime saying, and I roughly paraphrase, that "the campaign was going great until May released the new manifesto." He also called it "the worst manifesto we've ever had to campaign on."

Ouch.
Didn't the problems begin when labour leaked their manifesto and it was widely approved of, which happened before then?
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

I'm just quoting the guy. Frankly the problem began when the election was called.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: Theresa May calls snap General Election for June 8th

Post by jwl »

Crazedwraith wrote:Unless it's buried under the Tory stuff, I've heard remarkably little bellyaching from Labour that Corbyn lost and should be resigning because of it, as well.

I thought they had their knives already well sharpened for it.
I saw Peter Mandelson praising Corbyn on telly earlier today. If Mandelson isn't going to attack Corbyn, no-one will.
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