Brexit and General UK politics thread

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-07-09 04:47pm

At least the job doesn't start with a C, Jeremy Cunt will be quite relieved about that.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2018-07-09 05:12pm

"The will of the people" claim. Thing is, in voting for Brexit they were voting for chaos, and that's exactly what they've got! :twisted:
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-10 05:25pm

Crazedwraith wrote:
2018-07-09 02:49pm
Without sounds like too much of a conspiracy nut, but the Foreign Secretary resigning right when someone needs to be standing up to Russia about poising one of our citizens to death... well that's really bad timing. (I mean given the brexit reasoning I don't really think It's related but it's still bad)

Since the whole 'two articiles' thing I wouldn't credit him with actual principles, Boris does what he thinks is best for him. Presumably he copes to galvanise the die-hard brexiteers to his side.
At this point, I think anyone of any power who is on or affiliated with the xenophobic Right (and a disturbing number of people on the "anti-establishment" Left) is more likely than not to have Russian sympathies, or Russian ties. Many wittingly, some not so much.

The presence of a global neo-fascist cabal infiltrating and influencing governments* understandably sounds ludicrous to people who grew up in a saner or at least less obviously mad world, but you're not a conspiracy nut if developments consistently demonstrate that the conspiracy actually exists.

*Basically, we're living in the timeline where The Winter Soldier turned out to be a prophetic work. Fuck me.

Edit: Hell, Brexit itself is directly tied to Cambridge Analytica (and hence to Steven Bannon), which is a major player in the Russia/Trump scandal.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Zaune » 2018-07-10 05:56pm

Who's up for another SDN Bunker Thread: We Might Actually Need It Edition?
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-10 06:20pm

Edit: I should probably clarify that when I referred in my last post to having "Russian sympathies" or "Russian ties", I am not talking about ordinary Russian people. I don't hate Russians, and I don't care if you happen to have a friend or relative or colleague who's Russian- people are people, regardless of where they come from, and understanding this is arguably the single most indispensable tenant of a free society. I am referring to having ties with/sympathies towards the Russian government, that is the Putin regime. I am of the view that all people are created equal, that all governments are and must be legitimate targets of criticism (albeit some deserve it more than others), and that we must be able to separate condemnation of a government or a policy from condemnation of a nation or people.

It is unfortunate that such a clarification is necessary, but since it is easy to be misunderstood, especially if our language is not precise, and as there is always a chorus of apologists ready to label any criticism of the Russian government as Western Imperialism/Russophobia/McCarthyism/etc., I want to be absolutely unambiguous.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Zaune » 2018-07-11 02:30pm

In other news, according to the front page of the Daily Mail, Brexit is now a matter of "guerilla warfare", based off a quote from one of the scorched-earth faction. (Source)

If the golf-club fascist lobby want guerilla warfare they can bloody well have it, as far as I'm concerned. If they get their way then we are so deep in the shit that I'll be lucky if I'm still alive by the time a semblance of normality is restored, if it ever is. (Not hyperbole: Remember the part about food and medicine shortages? I'm on several kinds of medication without which I will be dead in a matter of months.)
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Zaune » 2018-07-13 09:37am

A Guide To Prepping For Brexit On A Budget

Inspired, apparently, by a Guardian article on the same subject that covered some of the same ground but didn't go as far. Ignore the "financial" section of that Reddit post, but otherwise there's some good advice in there.

When I was saying this a year and a half ago people were accusing me of being alarmist or paranoid.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Lonestar » 2018-07-26 06:19pm

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 63836.html

Looks like HMG is stockpiling medicines and food ahead of Brexit.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-08-14 03:27pm

So the current furores are antisemitism in the labour party and Islamaphobia in the case Boris Johnson/the Torys.

Fun, fun, fun.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-08-14 03:40pm

Britain just can't get together a political party that isn't shit, can it?

Wish someone could gather all the somewhat sane people who aren't raging bigots in Britain (there have to be some, right?) together into one party. Call it the "Sane People" Party. Or maybe the "Not Utter Jackasses" Party.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-08-14 04:05pm

To be fair, those are the current media circuses. Your opinion may vary on how antisemitic/Islamophobia they actually are, which is I presented the topic for discussion.

Labour and Corbyn are in trouble for not adopting a certain definition of antisemitism in it's entirety. Missing out some examples, possible for reasons that said examples conflate criticising Israel with antisemitism (I could be wrong but that's what I've heard). They've also dug out a memorial Corbyn attended years ago and demand he apologised it. He says he went to memorialise victims of a bombing, but terrorists involving in the munich massacre were also being commemorated at the same event.

As for Boris he published a comment saying that Burqas shouldn't be banned but also included comments that burqa's made people look like letter boxes and bankrobbers.

Notably they are being condemned by people in their own parties.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-08-14 04:10pm

Well, that's something. Its a shame about Corbyn, though- the world needs good socialist candidates, but I can't condone the taint of racism or violent extremism whatever side of the isle it appears on. Of course, my first thought was that the anti-Semitism claims were simply lies, or the usual "Any criticism of the Israeli government=anti-Semitism" bullshit, but the part about him attending a memorial for terrorists appears to be legit from what I can tell.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Vendetta » 2018-08-14 04:36pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-08-14 04:10pm
Well, that's something. Its a shame about Corbyn, though- the world needs good socialist candidates, but I can't condone the taint of racism or violent extremism whatever side of the isle it appears on. Of course, my first thought was that the anti-Semitism claims were simply lies, or the usual "Any criticism of the Israeli government=anti-Semitism" bullshit, but the part about him attending a memorial for terrorists appears to be legit from what I can tell.
Apart from the thing about the service he was attending being for the victims of the internationally condemned 1985 airstrike on the PLO headquarters, not, as the Daily Heil is claiming, the 1972 Munich attackers.

It's a safe bet that if you see Corbyn's name in the Mail, any article it features in is heavily distorted or outright lies.

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-08-14 04:45pm

Vendetta wrote:
2018-08-14 04:36pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-08-14 04:10pm
Well, that's something. Its a shame about Corbyn, though- the world needs good socialist candidates, but I can't condone the taint of racism or violent extremism whatever side of the isle it appears on. Of course, my first thought was that the anti-Semitism claims were simply lies, or the usual "Any criticism of the Israeli government=anti-Semitism" bullshit, but the part about him attending a memorial for terrorists appears to be legit from what I can tell.
Apart from the thing about the service he was attending being for the victims of the internationally condemned 1985 airstrike on the PLO headquarters, not, as the Daily Heil is claiming, the 1972 Munich attackers.

It's a safe bet that if you see Corbyn's name in the Mail, any article it features in is heavily distorted or outright lies.
He's admitted being there when a wreath was laid for being the 1972 Munich attackers, though he was not there for that reason and said: "I was present when it was laid. I don't think I was actually involved in it."


Not condemning him, but that's an impressively vague statement. I'm unclear as if there were two seperate ceremonies happening near each other for example, or one ceremony for both groups and he's trying to wash his hands of half of it.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-08-14 04:51pm

Yeah. That... does not reflect well on his sympathies, his forthrightness, or his political judgement.

The Daily Mail is worthless shit, I know that. However, if bombers were being honoured at the same event as the bomb victims, then I feel that he should not have attended. Its really that simple. Find some other way to commemorate the bombing victims if that's all you want to do.

Maybe its not anti-Semitism- maybe its just profoundly poor judgement. I still think its fair grounds to criticize him for it, though. There are a few things, even in this time when standards seem to have gone out the window in politics, that people should just know to never touch with a ten foot pole- pedophilia, racial slurs/Nazism/white supremacism, and terrorism.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Vendetta » 2018-08-14 05:39pm

Crazedwraith wrote:
2018-08-14 04:45pm
He's admitted being there when a wreath was laid for being the 1972 Munich attackers, though he was not there for that reason and said: "I was present when it was laid. I don't think I was actually involved in it."
None of the Munich attackers are buried in that cemetary. The allegation is that the person who planned it is and someone was laying a wreath at his grave.
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-08-14 04:51pm
Maybe its not anti-Semitism- maybe its just profoundly poor judgement. I still think its fair grounds to criticize him for it, though. There are a few things, even in this time when standards seem to have gone out the window in politics, that people should just know to never touch with a ten foot pole- pedophilia, racial slurs/Nazism/white supremacism, and terrorism.
Do you know how terrorism was stopped in Northern Ireland?

It was stopped by sitting down with the political arms of terrorist organisations and coming to a solution through dialogue and diplomacy.

If you want to end terrorism, you have to shake hands with people who, openly or not, support the goals of terrorist organisations. Because terrorism happens when people with little to no power otherwise are denied a path to their goals. And you have to realise that the terrorism isn't going to stop at your first meeting, but at the end of the meetings when there's a solution both sides believe in.

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-08-14 05:49pm

I suppose there's some merit to that, though I would put more emphasis on reaching out to the younger generations, winning people over before they're recruited (which means creating a society in which they feel less frustrated and marginalized).

However, it is possible to negotiate with someone without attending events meant to honor/memorialize them. Indeed, its preferable. This seems to be a point a lot of people miss- you can talk to someone without either a) being overtly belligerent or b) kissing their arse. I felt the same way when Trump got down and blew Kim Jong Un (figuratively speaking) at their little photo-op... um, "summit". I have no problem with the US negotiating with North Korea to find a peaceful solution- but I do have a problem with Trump praising Kim Jong Un and echoing his propaganda. That's not negotiation- its appeasement/surrender.

Likewise, I can see the merit to the British government sitting down and negotiating with extremist leaders in some circumstances. But I don't see the need for British politicians to attend memorials honoring dead terrorists.

Of course, the flip-side of the argument is that there's a very good reason for the principle "We don't negotiate with terrorists." Because rewarding acts of terror with concessions encourages more acts of terror, and more exorbitant demands.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2018-08-15 12:46am

Crazedwraith wrote:
2018-08-14 03:27pm
So the current furores are antisemitism in the labour party and Islamaphobia in the case Boris Johnson/the Torys.

Fun, fun, fun.
The antisemitism is the biggest fakest most transparent bullshit smear campaign I have ever seen. British media is shit.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2018-08-15 01:34am

Crazedwraith wrote:
2018-08-14 04:05pm
Labour and Corbyn are in trouble for not adopting a certain definition of antisemitism in it's entirety. Missing out some examples, possible for reasons that said examples conflate criticising Israel with antisemitism (I could be wrong but that's what I've heard). They've also dug out a memorial Corbyn attended years ago and demand he apologised it. He says he went to memorialise victims of a bombing, but terrorists involving in the munich massacre were also being commemorated at the same event.
This was also bullshit in the end, much like every other attempt at smearing anyone leftist who threatens the center-right pro-corporate monopoly on society. You know what was really fun about the fake antisemitism thing was how when left wing jewish groups came out to support Corbyn and the media started hollering they were the wrong kind of jews. Now that's fucking antisemitic. The truth is that Israel wants to conflate antisemitism with being anti-israel, that is all there is to it. Nevermind IHRA was never meant to be a measure of anything like this, as said by the guy who created the definition. The fact is it's not a question of antisemitism, it's just being used as a political tool by conservatives and centrists being against a leftist.

https://twitter.com/YairWallach/status/ ... 1458591745
But the wreath was placed on the tomb of Abu Iyad, Salah Khalaf, the Fateh ideologue, Arafat's close advisor, who is also said to be connected to Black Sep. Khalaf may have been responsible for Munich. But he was also involved in pushing the PLO to recognise Israel >>
Khalaf was number 2 to Arafat and was instrumental to peace talks and the Oslo accords. corbyn has consistently supported dialogue and gotten himself involved in promoting peace, the fact that this is constantly used against him is evidence we live in hellworld.

Another good thread:
https://twitter.com/davidschneider/stat ... 0862117890

To quote somebody elses summary of this story:
Since everyone’s asking, here’s how it appears to have gone down.

1. Corbyn went along with a multinational delegation of politicians, including several Israeli MKs, to lay wreaths on the graves of senior PLO members who were directly or indirectly responsible for a number of terrorist activities, but were also instrumental in pushing Yasser Arafat to the negotiating table. As such, they were being honoured as (attempted) peacemakers. As I recall, they’ve been acclaimed for their actions by several other major world leaders, including Tony Blair and Bill Clinton.

2. Elsewhere in the cemetery is a monument to the Black September members who were assassinated by Mossad after the Munich attacks. There was also an unrelated delegation delivering a wreath to that on the same day (not as strange a coincidence as it sounds - it’s a major graveyard with a lot of traffic), which Corbyn appears to have seen but not participated in. The supposedly damning Mail photos confirm this - different wreaths, different graves.

So yeah, it’s a normal Corbyn story.
Even a Tory was there.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 91641.html

And here's another account of the event:
Image
https://twitter.com/RaynerSkyNews/statu ... 1400611840

Hell even Thatcher would have been grilled alive today if she said this now
https://twitter.com/D_Raval/status/1029307031407259648

And hey look double standards
Image

Image

Image

And speaking of where antisemitism is the worst in british parties, well it's not labour and under JC, it decreased.

https://evolvepolitics.com/yougov-polls ... me-leader/

If there is anything to take from this is that if the british media says the sky is blue, verify it yourself.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2018-08-15 02:51am

Dennis Skinner weighs in as well
Image

And that fact got legs quickly
https://evolvepolitics.com/there-were-8 ... n-visited/
There have now been four days of uproar in the mainstream media regarding Jeremy Corbyn supposedly laying a wreath for the ‘Munich Terrorists’. However, in the resultant tumult, one absolutely crucial fact has been completely glossed over by virtually every mainstream media outlet – this being the massively inconvenient fact that out of the eight terrorists confirmed to have committed the Munich Terrorist atrocity, not a single one is actually buried at the Cemetery in Tunis that Corbyn visited. Yes. Seriously.

The Munich Massacre of 1972 was committed by eight terrorists recruited from the Black September Organisation. Of the 8 terrorists, 5 were killed by West German Police at the scene of the attack, whilst the remaining 3 were captured and imprisoned by West German authorities.

As documented by the acclaimed book One Day in September: The Full Story of the 1972 Munich Olympics Massacre, by Simon Reeve, the 8 terrorists who committed the Munich Massacre were:

Luttif Afif – Killed by West German Police at the scene
Yusuf Nazzal – Killed by West German Police at the scene
Afif Ahmed Hamid – Killed by West German Police at the scene
Khalid Jawad – Killed by West German Police at the scene
Ahmed Chic Thaa – Killed by West German Police at the scene
Mohammed Safady – Captured by West German Police
Adnan Al-Gashey – Captured by West German Police
Jamal Al-Gashey – Captured by West German Police
Just a month after the capture of Mohammed Safady, Adnan Al-Gashey and his brother Jamal Al-Gashey, all three were released by West German authorities in a hostage swap.

However, in 1972, the Israeli Security service Mossad instigated a secret Operation, code-named Wrath of God, in which both Mohammed Safady and Adnan Al-Gashey were allegedly tracked down and murdered by Mossad agents.

The final terrorist, Jamal Al-Gashey, was last known to be alive in 1999, hiding in either North Africa or Syria, and living in fear of retribution from Israeli security services.

Of the 8 terrorists listed above who perpetrated the atrocity, NONE are buried at the cemetery in Tunis that Corbyn visited:

Luttif Afif – Buried at Sidi Munaidess Cemetery, Libya
Yusuf Nazzal – Buried at Sid Munaidess Cemetery, Libya
Afif Ahmed Hamid – Buried at Sid Munaidess Cemetery, Libya
Khalid Jawad – Buried at Sid Munaidess Cemetery, Libya
Ahmed Chic Thaa – Buried at Sid Munaidess Cemetery, Libya
Mohammed Safady – Allegedly killed by Mossad, unknown grave
Adnan Al-Gashey – Allegedly killed by Mossad, unknown grave
Jamal Al-Gashey – Was reportedly still alive in 1999
As reported by The Daily Mail in their article smearing Jeremy Corbyn’s attendance at the wreath-laying ceremony at the Hamman Chott Cemetery in Tunis, the graves lining the cemetery canopy contained the bodies of:

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Salah Khalaf
Hayel Abdel-Hamid
Fakhri al-Omari
Atef Bseiso
The four individuals above are alleged to have had links to Black September, and have also been accused of having involvement in the planning of the attack – accusations which have long been denied.
...
Trump was right folks, there actually is a fake news mainstream media, in britain at least.

Teflon-jezza did it again.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2018-08-15 08:51am

Now this on the other hand... This will be hard to explain. Corbyn beter come clean!

https://twitter.com/_Saeen_/status/1029669703499874304
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Zaune » 2018-08-22 02:47pm

JOE.co.uk
Figures released by the Electoral Commission today have shown that the Conservative party received over double the amount of money it did from legacy giving as it did from membership fees last year.

Membership fees from living Tory members made up just £835k of the party's £45.9m annual income in 2017, compared to the £1.69m handed to the Conservatives in the wills of supporters who had passed away. Donations totalling £34.25m made up the bulk of the money the party received.
Source of the figures.

When you receive more donations from dead members than dues from living ones, something is quite badly wrong.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-08-22 02:51pm

Maybe they should rename themselves the Zombie Party. They'd still be monsters, but at least they'd be more interesting. :)
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Zaune » 2018-08-22 03:32pm

That's not far off true, in more than one sense of the word: Their actual rank-and-file party membership numbers are rumoured to be less than 100,000, which means that not only do they have a shortage of campaign staff but their talent pool for candidates for office is shrinking as well. They can muddle along for a bit with outside assistance, but even if that doesn't count towards their campaign spending limit they're still spending money hiring market research firms to do work Labour's volunteer canvassers are doing for free, and eventually they'll start having to put up candidates for councillor or mayor or even MP who got past the selection committee because nobody else bothered to show up.

Meanwhile, the Labour Party currently has a membership roll that's comfortably over the half-million mark.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2018-09-04 05:48am

The kids are alright:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/stat ... 4573934592

And the olds need to keep on getting older, fast as possible please:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/stat ... 0523431936
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.

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