Brexit and General UK politics thread

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Zaune
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by Zaune » 2018-05-12 06:37am

Yes, it very probably will cause problems further down the line, but the alternative is a Chinese and/or American boot on our necks for the next century if we're lucky.
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LaCroix
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by LaCroix » 2018-05-12 02:21pm

K. A. Pital wrote:
2018-05-12 04:20am
Don't you think that this would cause further problems down the line? Being in the EU without even having a voice about how it's run is certain to inflame tensions to an entirely different degree.

But then again, I've had no problems with Scotland breaking off, so... *grabs popcorn*
EEA/EFTA does not mean you are in the EU -it means you sign the existing European Free Trade Agreement. The existing agreement contains rules for admittance, and the most relevant are that you follow the EU laws and trade regulations (with a vote on some aspects of them), and adhere to the 4 freedoms. You either sign the present contract or you don't get in - like joining NAFTA - you sign or not, they won't negotiate extra terms for you.
You can still barter other individual free trade with non-EU/EFFTA countries on your own, though.

It's similar to Texas seceding, and joining NAFTA... :D

Norway and Swizerland are living like that for a decade or more, and have no complaints. EU laws are usually reasonable (with a few exceptions).
Also, neither of them have delusions of grandeur or an institutional problem with immigrants from eastern Europe seeking work, and a mostly functional secondary sector.

And there are always two options available if you don't like "regulation without representation".

Leave and see what you can get yourself on the free market.
Join the EU to get more of a say.
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K. A. Pital
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by K. A. Pital » 2018-05-12 02:27pm

LaCroix wrote:
2018-05-12 02:21pm
EEA/EFTA does not mean you are in the EU -it means you sign the existing European Free Trade Agreement. The existing agreement contains rules for admittance, and the most relevant are that you follow the EU laws and trade regulations (with a vote on some aspects of them), and adhere to the 4 freedoms
It is basically like being in the EU without having any representation.
LaCroix wrote:
2018-05-12 02:21pm
Norway and Swizerland are living like that for a decade or more, and have no complaints.
You surely missed the massive crisis in Switzerland over immigration where the government ignored the referendum results and did not force quotas on EU citizens, because going through with it would have instantly destroyed all Swiss bilateral agreements with the EU - due to the guillotine clause. Which was a very real risk in 2014-2017. The EU put pressure and the Swiss caved in, but at no point is this a "no complaints" situation.
LaCroix wrote:
2018-05-12 02:21pm
Also, neither of them have delusions of grandeur or an institutional problem with immigrants from eastern Europe seeking work, and a mostly functional secondary sector.
The Swiss xenophobia is so strong that Eastern European nations have special rules applying to them compared to immigrants from established EU nations (EU 17).

Basically, Switzerland already had a Brexit situation (referendum with xenophobic opinion winning -> government which did not want to lose access to the common market -> ignoring the referendum -> still being bound by all EU law and freedom of movement).

Given the above, it's definetely going to be a much harder time selling it to the Brexit public as an "exit".
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by LaCroix » 2018-05-12 02:37pm

I was not aware that the swiss crisis was that much of a thing. I stand corrected.

But yes, these Swiss problems is pretty much what I expect to happen if Britain would try a "soft" exit and find out what they are signing up for.
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by K. A. Pital » 2018-05-12 03:05pm

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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-05-14 12:23pm

K. A. Pital wrote:
2018-05-12 04:05am
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-05-11 07:05pm
I'd fucking love it if that happened. It would be the best possible outcome short of full membership, I expect, and it would be fitting comeuppance to the Brexit assholes.
It would also show that there are no consequences to badly botched democratic choice.
As others have noted, there would be consequences- but perhaps not absolutely crippling ones that would hurt a lot of innocent people. And I'd rather not see Britain utterly ruined, or innocent people suffer, to make a point.

The consequences in this scenario would fall disproportionately on the assholes responsible for this cluster fuck, which to me seems fair.
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Re: Brexit and General UK politics thread

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2018-05-14 05:32pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-05-14 12:23pm
K. A. Pital wrote:
2018-05-12 04:05am
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-05-11 07:05pm
I'd fucking love it if that happened. It would be the best possible outcome short of full membership, I expect, and it would be fitting comeuppance to the Brexit assholes.
It would also show that there are no consequences to badly botched democratic choice.
As others have noted, there would be consequences- but perhaps not absolutely crippling ones that would hurt a lot of innocent people. And I'd rather not see Britain utterly ruined, or innocent people suffer, to make a point.

The consequences in this scenario would fall disproportionately on the assholes responsible for this cluster fuck, which to me seems fair.
I too would love to see Brexit fail, except as a Scot living in England I'd have to live with the consequences; especially as I was a staunch remainer the whole mess pisses me off! :lol:
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