the problem of overbooked flights in the US

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, SCRawl, Thanas, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 24823
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
Contact:

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby Broomstick » 2017-04-11 06:07pm

The doctor did have his license suspended for some time, during which he apparently played professional poker and did well at it. This will lead some to discredit him because of "legal problems" and possible moral issues.

However, he had his license re-instated and is again practicing medicine, which implies he's no longer a problem.

It's also irrelevant because no one of any profession, or lack of profession, deserves to be manhandled and injured in this manner.

But it wouldn't shock me if United attempts to discredit the victim, much as rape victims used to be put on trial after accusing their rapists of a crime. It's a time-honored tactic of bullies.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice

User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 9466
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby mr friendly guy » 2017-04-11 07:09pm

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-up ... a0166e32a1

The doctor in question is David Dao, Vietnamese-born Kentucky man who was convicted of obtaining drugs by fraud in 2004, but had his license restored in 2015.

Now this has also made the rounds in China on both state news and social media. It was reported he was of chinese descent (he could be, since there are people of Chinese descent in Vietnam and vice versa as the borders between the two countries are pretty porous, and the passenger was alleged to have complained that he was singled out because he was Chinese). Apparently United does decent business in China.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/11/worl ... .html?_r=0

The controversy threatened to hurt United’s revenue in China, where the airline began flying in 1986 and has steadily built a loyal customer base. As of last May, United had 96 departures a week to cities in mainland China and Hong Kong.

96 flights a week huh. Well enjoy the boycotts because United breaks guitars people.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to.
Australia, Canada, China, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Malaysia, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.

User avatar
Flagg
CUNTS FOR EYES!
Posts: 11941
Joined: 2005-06-09 09:56pm
Location: The Sanctuary Doing Some Ironing

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby Flagg » 2017-04-11 10:42pm

Who gives a shit about allegations of/actual wrongdoing on his part that doesn't involve behavior on an airliner? The hired goons (yet more wonderful rented pigs that make me ashamed of doing such work despite "being on of the good ones") had no way of knowing about alleged history not involving a United flight so all of the character assassination is not just pointless bullshit, it's pointless bullshit that is going to explode in United's face like diarrhea out the ass of a constipated baby given IV prune juice just when the teeny baby buttplug is yanked out.

But if I were to do an advertisement for United:
It would start by showing the poor Doctor being manhandled off the plane, then him standing at a (bulkhead?) repeatedly saying "Kill me... Kill me..." with the 1000-yard stare while some happy sounding corporate bitch cheerfully saying "United! Our passengers would rather take a beating and then beg to be killed before going with another carrier!"
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11558
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-04-12 12:14am

Broomstick wrote:The doctor did have his license suspended for some time, during which he apparently played professional poker and did well at it. This will lead some to discredit him because of "legal problems" and possible moral issues.

However, he had his license re-instated and is again practicing medicine, which implies he's no longer a problem.

It's also irrelevant because no one of any profession, or lack of profession, deserves to be manhandled and injured in this manner.

But it wouldn't shock me if United attempts to discredit the victim, much as rape victims used to be put on trial after accusing their rapists of a crime. It's a time-honored tactic of bullies.


Hell, people still pull this crap on sexual assault victims. I see, for example, Alt. Rightist-types making allegations about Trump's accusers, saying they're just framing him for money or whatever.

And character assassination is a favoured tactic of the legal profession, unfortunately.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 9466
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby mr friendly guy » 2017-04-12 12:43am

Mr Bean wrote:
4. I can't stress this enough, the airline can DENY BOARDING they can't remove you except if canceling the plane or for security reasons. Which the chicago PD counted as good old fashion arrested for resisting arrest.

But don't take my word for it, take Unites word for it as they are happy To post the rules on their website, to note read that and it says boarding, boarding boarding boarding board. Once you've already boarded the offer has passed and had United's shitty management did this offer at the gate they would have been free and clear in everything they did (Because then you'd be guilty of trying to force you way onto a domestic flight which is a no joke offense) as opposed to the more questionable issue of being forced to give up your seat.

Rule 21 covers when United can kick you off the flight, and none of which counts as flight was overbook. Rule 25 covers overbooking and bumping you off the flight, and like you say, they can stop you from boarding. However on google it appears that (at least according to one site) its still counted as denied boarding even when you are physically on the plane, as long as the plane is still at the gate.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/ ... er-rights/

It seems bullshit because the usual use of the term "having boarded" in airports refer to getting on the plane,not getting on the plane and the plane leaving the gate.

The US government has a site detailing your rights

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights

Interesting to note that if the flight was delayed by more than 2 hours, you are entitled to up to 400% the ticket price to a max of $1350.
Checking United's own website flights from O'hare in Chicago to Louisville cost from $221 to $456 for one way tickets. So they could offer up to $884 to the max $1350. Now assuming he purchased a round trip instead of a 1 way ticket he adds another $217 to that. So either way you cut it, 400% of ($221 + $217) hits the maximum of $1350.

So yeah, United was being a cheapskate.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to.
Australia, Canada, China, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Malaysia, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.

User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 9466
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby mr friendly guy » 2017-04-12 12:56am

http://www.travelandleisure.com/airline ... mpensation

Another story with Delta who had a better compensation scheme. Long story short, a family of three who paid $650 per ticket. Flight was delayed so they agreed to give up their seats for $1350 per person (the maximum allowed under US law). Delayed again the next day so they went for $1300 per ticket, got $50 taxi voucher and $15 lunch for each of them. Next day again delay, so they cancelled their vacation and got $1000 per ticket and the refund of $650 per ticket. So they got $3650 per person and each time it was more than what United offered. Granted it was in gift cards, but still. Yeah United was cheap.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to.
Australia, Canada, China, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Malaysia, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.

bilateralrope
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3393
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby bilateralrope » 2017-04-12 06:14am

mr friendly guy wrote:the maximum allowed under US law


Why is there a maximum amount of compensation the airline is allowed to offer ?

User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 24823
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
Contact:

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby Broomstick » 2017-04-12 06:21am

This is confusing, so bear with me.

It's when the rule when the 400% compensation kicks in - the airline is only required to refund 400% of the ticket up to a maximum of $1350, meaning if the ticket is more than $337.50 the airline is only on the hook for $1350 whether the ticket is $337.50 or $521.02 or whatever.

So it's a maximum minimum.

The airline can compensate with a higher number at their discretion, but they have to refund at least 400% up to a certain amount.

I'm not sure if that explanation helps or not.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice

bilateralrope
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3393
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby bilateralrope » 2017-04-12 06:24am

Broomstick wrote:This is confusing, so bear with me.

It's when the rule when the 400% compensation kicks in - the airline is only required to refund 400% of the ticket up to a maximum of $1350, meaning if the ticket is more than $337.50 the airline is only on the hook for $1350 whether the ticket is $337.50 or $521.02 or whatever.

So it's a maximum minimum.

The airline can compensate with a higher number at their discretion, but they have to refund at least 400% up to a certain amount.

I'm not sure if that explanation helps or not.


That makes sense.

User avatar
LaCroix
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4064
Joined: 2004-12-21 12:14pm
Location: Vienna, Austria, Europe, Terra

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby LaCroix » 2017-04-12 07:23am

Come to think of it, wouldn't it have been cheaper for United to send their crew wherever with another carrier? I mean, they offered 800 per seat, they could have booked business class for their crew on any other carrier for less.
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

I do archery skeet. With a Trebuchet.

User avatar
General Zod
Never Shuts Up
Posts: 29104
Joined: 2003-11-18 03:08pm
Location: The Clearance Rack
Contact:

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby General Zod » 2017-04-12 08:14am

So it looks like United managed to piss off a guy that actually has the resources to sue their ass.

http://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus ... story.html
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."

Image

ImageImage

houser2112
Padawan Learner
Posts: 187
Joined: 2006-04-07 07:21am
Location: Buffalo, NY

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby houser2112 » 2017-04-12 08:27am

I can understand why an airline would want to sell every seat on a flight, but is overbooking really worth the trouble caused when the people who bought tickets all show up expecting to fly, considering how much the law says they can be compensated for being bumped?

User avatar
Gandalf
SD.net White Wizard
Posts: 13825
Joined: 2002-09-16 11:13pm
Location: A video store in Sydney, Australia

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby Gandalf » 2017-04-12 08:31am

houser2112 wrote:I can understand why an airline would want to sell every seat on a flight, but is overbooking really worth the trouble caused when the people who bought tickets all show up expecting to fly, considering how much the law says they can be compensated for being bumped?


They've been doing it for decades, so I assume it's all worth it.
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin

"People tell me, 'Bill, let it go. The Kennedy assassination was years ago. It was just the assassination of a President and the hijacking of our government by a totalitarian regime — who cares? Just let it go.' I say, 'All right then. That whole Jesus thing? Let it go! It was 2,000 years ago! Who cares?'"
- Bill Hicks

User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 24823
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
Contact:

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby Broomstick » 2017-04-12 09:11am

There are enough people willing to accept compensation in return for a (usually) short delay in their travel to make it work out the vast majority of the time. Keep in mind, getting bumped at a major hub like O'Hare might mean you leave 2 or 3 hours later than originally planned, so maybe you get to your hotel at 7 pm at night instead of 5 pm. A lot of travel arrangements can handle that. So usually there isn't this sort of problem

If it wasn't cost-effective for the airlines they wouldn't do it.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice

User avatar
Zwinmar
Jedi Knight
Posts: 895
Joined: 2005-03-24 11:55am
Location: McPherson, Kansas

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby Zwinmar » 2017-04-12 09:12am

What did you expect, seriously. You have to deal with these asshats from the moment you hit 'security.'

Ralin
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2080
Joined: 2008-08-28 04:23am

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby Ralin » 2017-04-12 09:18am

houser2112 wrote:I can understand why an airline would want to sell every seat on a flight, but is overbooking really worth the trouble caused when the people who bought tickets all show up expecting to fly, considering how much the law says they can be compensated for being bumped?


Ballpark, they only have to overbook something like two to four seats whose passengers don't show for whatever reason to make up for every one overbooked seat they have to pay someone off for. Most people who are sold tickets to an overbooked flight don't show up to press the issue, and the people who agree to be bumped are likely the ones who don't have multiple connecting flights or something like that, meaning that the non-bumped passengers are more likely than not more valuable (more expensive fares) than the people who agree to take the money/credit.

So yeah, overall it works out to extra money for the airline in exchange for selling something they don't end up having to provide.

User avatar
General Zod
Never Shuts Up
Posts: 29104
Joined: 2003-11-18 03:08pm
Location: The Clearance Rack
Contact:

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby General Zod » 2017-04-12 09:29am

Ralin wrote:
houser2112 wrote:I can understand why an airline would want to sell every seat on a flight, but is overbooking really worth the trouble caused when the people who bought tickets all show up expecting to fly, considering how much the law says they can be compensated for being bumped?


Ballpark, they only have to overbook something like two to four seats whose passengers don't show for whatever reason to make up for every one overbooked seat they have to pay someone off for. Most people who are sold tickets to an overbooked flight don't show up to press the issue, and the people who agree to be bumped are likely the ones who don't have multiple connecting flights or something like that, meaning that the non-bumped passengers are more likely than not more valuable (more expensive fares) than the people who agree to take the money/credit.

So yeah, overall it works out to extra money for the airline in exchange for selling something they don't end up having to provide.


I've taken a bump before in exchange for a voucher and getting put on a flight that left just a few hours later because hey, free flights. Granted, this was on Southwest.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."

Image

ImageImage

User avatar
Dominus Atheos
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3559
Joined: 2005-09-15 09:41pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby Dominus Atheos » 2017-04-12 02:57pm

mr friendly guy wrote:http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/passenger-dragged-off-united-airlines-flight-had-dark-past/news-story/bf21d3955203bf9d91c380a0166e32a1

The doctor in question is David Dao, Vietnamese-born Kentucky man who was convicted of obtaining drugs by fraud in 2004, but had his license restored in 2015.

Now this has also made the rounds in China on both state news and social media. It was reported he was of chinese descent (he could be, since there are people of Chinese descent in Vietnam and vice versa as the borders between the two countries are pretty porous, and the passenger was alleged to have complained that he was singled out because he was Chinese). Apparently United does decent business in China.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/11/worl ... .html?_r=0

The controversy threatened to hurt United’s revenue in China, where the airline began flying in 1986 and has steadily built a loyal customer base. As of last May, United had 96 departures a week to cities in mainland China and Hong Kong.

96 flights a week huh. Well enjoy the boycotts because United breaks guitars people.


If Chinese people were unhappy then, they're going to be really unhappy if the following is confirmed:

There is a Dr. David Dao with the legal history as described, which is Dr. David Anh Duy Dao, as reported by the Independent. The publication claims that the passenger on the United flight may have actually been Dr. David Thanh Duc Dao, an unrelated person. Confusion still seems to exist about Dr. Dao, as reported by TMZ.


http://www.inquisitr.com/4136331/david- ... son-years/

Since all Asian people look the same, it was an easy mistake for the western media to make.
Anonymous facebooker on the "Snowmageddon" February 2010 DC snowstorm:
Image
Image

User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 24823
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
Contact:

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby Broomstick » 2017-04-12 04:24pm

Or, you know, the names ARE similar and they didn't double check that they had the correct David Dao.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice

User avatar
Flagg
CUNTS FOR EYES!
Posts: 11941
Joined: 2005-06-09 09:56pm
Location: The Sanctuary Doing Some Ironing

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby Flagg » 2017-04-12 04:34pm

bilateralrope wrote:
Broomstick wrote:This is confusing, so bear with me.

It's when the rule when the 400% compensation kicks in - the airline is only required to refund 400% of the ticket up to a maximum of $1350, meaning if the ticket is more than $337.50 the airline is only on the hook for $1350 whether the ticket is $337.50 or $521.02 or whatever.

So it's a maximum minimum.

The airline can compensate with a higher number at their discretion, but they have to refund at least 400% up to a certain amount.

I'm not sure if that explanation helps or not.


That makes sense.

Not really. What if the ticket cost $1500?
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan

User avatar
Flagg
CUNTS FOR EYES!
Posts: 11941
Joined: 2005-06-09 09:56pm
Location: The Sanctuary Doing Some Ironing

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby Flagg » 2017-04-12 04:42pm

Broomstick wrote:There are enough people willing to accept compensation in return for a (usually) short delay in their travel to make it work out the vast majority of the time. Keep in mind, getting bumped at a major hub like O'Hare might mean you leave 2 or 3 hours later than originally planned, so maybe you get to your hotel at 7 pm at night instead of 5 pm. A lot of travel arrangements can handle that. So usually there isn't this sort of problem

If it wasn't cost-effective for the airlines they wouldn't do it.

What if the overbooked flight you get "bumped" (aka thrown out the door with the cabin crew giving you the finger with both hands) from is a connecting flight? Are you just supposed to take however much they will pay you and hope that buying a ticket for the next connecting flight is the same price as it was before the greed of the shittiest service industry on Earth caused you to miss the first one?
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan

User avatar
Flagg
CUNTS FOR EYES!
Posts: 11941
Joined: 2005-06-09 09:56pm
Location: The Sanctuary Doing Some Ironing

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby Flagg » 2017-04-12 04:46pm

Broomstick wrote:Or, you know, the names ARE similar and they didn't double check that they had the correct David Dao.

Then is was yet another case of the media shitting the bed.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan

User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 24823
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
Contact:

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby Broomstick » 2017-04-12 07:33pm

Flagg wrote:
Broomstick wrote:There are enough people willing to accept compensation in return for a (usually) short delay in their travel to make it work out the vast majority of the time. Keep in mind, getting bumped at a major hub like O'Hare might mean you leave 2 or 3 hours later than originally planned, so maybe you get to your hotel at 7 pm at night instead of 5 pm. A lot of travel arrangements can handle that. So usually there isn't this sort of problem

If it wasn't cost-effective for the airlines they wouldn't do it.

What if the overbooked flight you get "bumped" (aka thrown out the door with the cabin crew giving you the finger with both hands) from is a connecting flight? Are you just supposed to take however much they will pay you and hope that buying a ticket for the next connecting flight is the same price as it was before the greed of the shittiest service industry on Earth caused you to miss the first one?

People needing connecting flights are a lot less likely to volunteer than those not needing connecting flight. I'm talking about volunteers, not those involuntarily put off flights.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice

Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28546
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby Simon_Jester » 2017-04-12 10:06pm

Yeah. The reason this story is news isn't because (GASP) an airline needed to get a few passengers off of a plane.

It's because instead of doing the normal thing: "Is there anyone willing to get off the plane for $800? Do I have anyone willing to get off the plane for $825? Do I hear someone willing to take $850? SOLD, to the little guy who's in no hurry to see his in-laws and just realized that taking $850 for a four-hour delay is the best deal he's gotten all month!"

...

Instead of doing that, they picked people at random and then had security guards go all Brute Squad on the guy who, having been randomly 'volunteered,' didn't consent to be removed from the plane. The issue here isn't that overbooked flights offend our sense of tidiness, even if they do. It's that having airport security turn into the Brute Squad is undesirable.

Ralin
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2080
Joined: 2008-08-28 04:23am

Re: the problem of overbooked flights in the US

Postby Ralin » 2017-04-12 10:15pm

It wasn't airport security. They called in actual law enforcement.


Return to “News and Politics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests