US grants asylum to Amos Yee

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US grants asylum to Amos Yee

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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39388810
Singapore teen blogger Amos Yee granted US asylum
25 March 2017

Singapore teen blogger Amos Yee, who was jailed twice in his homeland for posting political and religious criticism online, has been granted asylum in the United States.
Mr Yee, 18, has been detained in the US since he arrived at Chicago's O'Hare airport in December.
He came into the country on a tourist visa but told immigration officials he was seeking refuge.
Following Friday's ruling, he is expected to be released shortly.
The US Department of Homeland Security opposed Mr Yee's asylum application, but the immigration judge ruled in the teenager's favour.
Judge Samuel Cole released a 13-page decision, which said Mr Yee faced persecution in Singapore for his political opinions.
"Yee has met his burden of showing that he suffered past persecution on account of his political opinion and has a well-founded fear of future persecution in Singapore," Judge Coel ruled.
"Accordingly, this court grants his application for asylum."

Amos Yee is not the only one celebrating his US asylum win - many Singaporeans are pleased as well.
"Finally... hopefully it is the last we have heard of him," a Facebook user wrote in one typical comment online.
The teenage critic is one of Singapore's most controversial figures, where he is viewed with exasperation but also a measure of sympathy. Singapore is known for its strict rules on free speech, especially when it comes to race and religion - rules which the US judge said have been used by the authorities to constrain dissent, but which many in the city-state support.
Following Mr Yee's explosive remarks about the country's deeply-revered late leader Lee Kuan Yew and Christianity, Mr Yee had continued to fall foul of the law by breaching bail conditions and making further critical comments about religion.
Even by leaving Singapore he has committed an offence, as he is avoiding mandatory military conscription. While in US detention he had run into trouble for making remarks about Islam, according to his representatives.
But some Singaporeans also empathise with Amos, who has clearly struggled with the country's restrictions. "Congratulations Amos. He can now lead the free life he wants in the free world. It's just his bad luck that he was born in Singapore," said another commenter on Facebook.
Mr Yee's lawyer, Sandra Grossman, said he could be released as early as Monday.
In statement, Ms Grossman applauded the judge's decision and said, "The right to free speech is sacred, even when such speech is considered offensive."
In September 2016, the teenager was given a six-week prison sentence in Singapore after being found guilty of "wounding religious feelings".
He had posted a video critical of Christianity and Islam.
He was also jailed by a Singapore court for four weeks in 2015, for criticising Christians and for posting a video about the country's former Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew.
His video, posted on YouTube days after his death, compared the widely-respected founding father of Singapore to Jesus Christ.
Later, he posted a crude cartoon depicting Lee Kuan Yew and former UK Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, who was one of his allies.
The posts provoked various police complaints, and Mr Yee was reported to have received violent threats.
I always thought Amos Yee was a attention whore coward when he attacked Lee Kuan Yew after the man had died with no way to defend himself. He didn't deserve to be punished for mocking religion, but he is still a douchebag. And an advocate for child rape like Milo NAMBLApolis.

Oh BTW USA, congratulations on gaining a child porn advocate and who said he won't criticise Muhammad for fucking 9 year old Aisha. Naturally BBC would report that part. :roll: Oh wait.
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

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Between this, Yiannopoulos, and Trump's comments sexualizing underage girls (and unconfirmed reports of him raping underage girls), I'm noticing a disturbing trend on the Alt. Right of condoning and promoting, or at least turning a blind eye toward, sexual abuse of the underage.

I suppose it makes sense. The Alt. Right is all about victimizing the vulnerable for their own gain (though of course, no political faction has a monopoly on closet child molesters and rapists). Is this the next once-unthinkable thing they're going to try to normalize, now that they've gotten a Klan-endorsed, misogynist groper in the White House? I might have laughed that possibility off once, but when fucking Trump is President, its hard to know what's unrealistic any more.
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

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I wouldn't call Yee Alt Right, but a lot of freedom of speech (loud) advocates do tend to like Yee and Alt right types particularly if they cry my freedom of speech is being restricted. I have a suspicion its because they like the freedom of be racist (or don't care enough about it) but not the freedom to fire back against said racists. Never mind that free speech is already restricted in certain areas, for example if I falsely accused someone of being a paedophile I could be sued for defamation. Good thing there is a wealth of evidence that shows Yee supports the "right" to rape children.
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

Post by The Romulan Republic »

mr friendly guy wrote:I have a suspicion its because they like the freedom of be racist (or don't care enough about it) but not the freedom to fire back against said racists.
Yeah.

I've noticed a lot of Right wing bigot types will use "free speech" to defend their right to express their views (on which point the Constitution does mostly agree with them), then whine about how they're being oppressed if anyone else criticizes said views.

You can't have it both ways, ass wipes. Freedom of expression is a two-way street.
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

Post by Joun_Lord »

The Romulan Republic wrote:Between this, Yiannopoulos, and Trump's comments sexualizing underage girls (and unconfirmed reports of him raping underage girls), I'm noticing a disturbing trend on the Alt. Right of condoning and promoting, or at least turning a blind eye toward, sexual abuse of the underage.

I suppose it makes sense. The Alt. Right is all about victimizing the vulnerable for their own gain (though of course, no political faction has a monopoly on closet child molesters and rapists). Is this the next once-unthinkable thing they're going to try to normalize, now that they've gotten a Klan-endorsed, misogynist groper in the White House? I might have laughed that possibility off once, but when fucking Trump is President, its hard to know what's unrealistic any more.
At the risk of pulling my usual bullshit of middle of the road "but the other side" bologna, I disagree that there is a trend of the alt-right being pedos. As you said no political faction has a monopoly on child molestors or rapists (maybe NAMBLA if they are considered a political faction), being creepo fucks is nothing unique to the alt-right by a long shot. Some of the big names of the alt-right are skeezy child pussy grabbing fucking bastards yeah but certainly a majority are not (that we are aware of).

People who crave power are going to have some pretty fucked up vices and need to dominate. Priests and their equivalents from other religions, politicians, fast food spokepersons, beloved British tv idols, sports coachs, and more all diddle kids. The question is whether they are pedos drawn to power to fuck kids or normal assholes who get so caught up in their power that they start fucking kids, I dunno, either way no matter the reason the person still choose to do what they did and thats not meant to be a pun even if it can be interpreted as such.

The alt-right are a bunch of power hungry idiots who seek to show their power over others either through force of will or trolling or whatever. Of course there is going to be some fucking child molesters, I'd think it would be impossible for there not to be any amongst their ranks just from the alpha dog attitude the fuckers have.
The Romulan Republic wrote:I've noticed a lot of Right wing bigot types will use "free speech" to defend their right to express their views (on which point the Constitution does mostly agree with them), then whine about how they're being oppressed if anyone else criticizes said views.

You can't have it both ways, ass wipes. Freedom of expression is a two-way street.
To repeat myself, not exactly something limited to the alt-right by a long shot but pretty much yeah. The alt-right (and others who cry oppression anytime anyone dares disagree with them) believe free speech is the ability to speak freely completely unrestricted, to exercise their right without being infringed on, with no limits. In their minds people talking over them, preventing them from talking, or even just speaking against them infringes on their free speech rights. Like they somehow think their rights Trump other peoples rights.

But again, not something limited to just the alt-right even if they are particularly whiny bitches about it (OMG I'm infringing on their rights by calling them whiny bitches), certainly their are plenty of whiny bitches on the left who do the same. Hell there is a whole debate on college campuses of liberal leftist commie pinko people who want other's free speech restricted while wanting their own to be unlimited. People are cockbags on all the spectrum of the political rainbow, just the alt-right have been more visible thanks to a certain pumpkin headed douche darling of the alt-right winning (stealing) the Presidency.

Anyway on topic, I've kinda got mixed feelings about this. Being jailed for posting criticism is some pretty fucked up shit though some of the shit he said is pretty fucked up too. Is it fucked up enough to deny entry to someone in danger of having his human rights restricted? Should we deny human rights cases entry if they believe in some things that may not gel with western values such as a (completely wrong and digusting) belief in the ability for children to consent to sex? Would if be different if he was facing execution rather then jail time?

I really don't like the man or what he believes in but I really don't like people being persecuted and threatened for saying bullshit. I'm asking myself if I had the choice to let him in or kick him out what would I do and I cannot honestly say for certain which I'd do.
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

Post by Tvpnbb »

mr friendly guy wrote:I always thought Amos Yee was a attention whore coward when he attacked Lee Kuan Yew after the man had died with no way to defend himself.
Wtf. I agree with everything else you said, but just wtf? Do you also disapprove of those who criticized Margaret Thatcher after her death? Should dead politicians be extempt from criticism? I watched Yee's video criticizing Lee at the time, and it wasn't just empty personal attacks either, the video consisted of points backed by evidence.

Seriously, I don't want to defend the guy after seeing his pro-child abuse comments, but I just don't understand this one point you made at all.
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

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I don't have a problem if both sides argued and then one side just happens to die of natural causes, and the other side kept on going. I also don't have a problem if you criticise someone who has died before you were old enough to make an argument. Now imagine if we both had a dispute, and then I waited for you to die before attacking your position. I doubt Amos suddenly came to his revelation about LKY just after he died. Criticism against LKY aren't exactly new.

That being said, I am going to point this out. LKY changed Singapore from a middle income country to a developed nation with GDP / capita higher than Germany and the UK. Amos Yee defends child rape. But he is also a free speech advocate, so totally ok. :D
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

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mr friendly guy wrote:I don't have a problem if both sides argued and then one side just happens to die of natural causes, and the other side kept on going. I also don't have a problem if you criticise someone who has died before you were old enough to make an argument. Now imagine if we both had a dispute, and then I waited for you to die before attacking your position. I doubt Amos suddenly came to his revelation about LKY just after he died. Criticism against LKY aren't exactly new.
When you say "we both had a dispute," did Yee and LKY actually have a dialogue?
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

There's a difference between whining about criticism and getting hammered by anti-sedition laws or whatever social harmony laws there are.

I think this person's 2edgy stuff emerged from all the LKY lovefest after he died. I mean, this probably isn't some calculated Starscream-esque "teeheehee I shall wait until Megatron falls before I make my move" shit. I think he just went hipster and went "fuck that guy" after all the outpouring. And fair enough, I mean all the outpourings for the likes of LKY, Thatcher, whatever, is just meh IMO.

His going all Milo YiaNAMBLApoupoulis is something else. Makes him scum.
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

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Gandalf wrote:
When you say "we both had a dispute," did Yee and LKY actually have a dialogue?
We is referring to myself and Tvpnbb. Generally if criticism was placed in the public sphere I wouldn't be suspicious that someone cowardly striking out when the person had died and had no way to defend their position. AFAIK Yee only reached prominence because of his rant after LKY died. Just for the record, I see Yee's actions as more opportunistic rather than "Starscreamesque" calculated.

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I found the original video of Yee's criticism. The statistics quoted were only a small part of his critique. Other parts were

1. Self contradictory positions
For example Singapore is bad because of a wide gap between rich and poor and LKY is bad for making Singaporeans think money is so important which causes Singaporeans to be unhappy. You can't have it both ways. Either there is some relationship between money and happiness or there is none. If there is none he can't really complain about a wide gap between rich and poor and causing Singaporeans to being unhappy. If there is a relationship between money and happiness, he can't complain about LKY making people understand this.

Just for the record, IIRC studies show most people become more happier with more money up to a certain point, and then you get diminishing returns, so there is a relationship, just not 100%, but its not zero either.

2. Standards which apply to LKY but not anyone else

LKY biography shows pictures of him and what he has done, such as meeting foreign leaders. ITS PROPAGANDA. Yeah, and a biography about Mike Tyson will talk about his achievements as well, but I don't think anyone would point out showcasing someone's achievement is propaganda, unless those achievements were fake or irrelevant to what they are arguing.

3. Insinuations, which may or may not be true but without elaboration means very little

Singapore leaders like suing people for defamation. It silences free speech. Well firstly even in SPARTAFREEDOMAMERICA, defamation laws exist. They can theoretically be misused to stifle freedom of speech, but without more elaboration on how these cases turned out, it doesn't tell me anything. For example did they sue until one side ran out of money, or did they actually win the case and proven it in a court of law that defamation occurred? He doesn't elaborate and lets the insinuation do the job for him.

4. Anti intellectualism
LKY made Singaporeans think getting good marks are one of the keys to happiness.

Firstly this phenomena of putting a lot of emphasis on education is not unique to Singapore, it also occurs in places with a Chinese majority, eg China, and Taiwan. Its origins most probably stem from Confucianism and preceded LKY. Like by centuries.

Secondly education is important, and one of the ways we do so is via exams. Its been quoted numerous times that people with higher education levels get better jobs. That's just one of the benefits.

Good marks aren't everything, but it is important and Yee doesn't make a distinction between that. I guess his anti intellectualism might explain why he thinks society stopping child rape is "fascism," and why he thinks 9 year old Aisha can give consent.

5. LKY should have killed himself (as he was suffering from a disease) or get his son to do it, but only didn't do so because it would make LKY look bad as a leader.

Yes, Lee Hsien Long should murder his own father. If LKY indicated he wanted to be euthanised, I would be for it. Ultimately such a decision is a very personal one. However there is no indication LKY wanted this, so that would make his son a murderer if he killed his own father. What morality Yee has.

6. LKY is like Jesus. Both promise stuff, but its all fake.

Well last time I checked Jesus didn't improve the standard of living of people in his area. LKY's achievements in terms of economic development are real. It all comes back to whether you think economic development and making society more wealthy is important.
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

I think a teen shit-ranting in the 'net being all edgy and contrarian because of all the LKY in memoriam love-festing won't be conveying the most convincing of arguments or statements that reach the standards of the Smartest Board in the Internet, mang. Congrats for the intellectual smackdown though. Totally QED'ed his spherical masses of iron, concession accepted *post Galvatron picture* and all that. :lol:

He was attention-grabbing shitposting... he's 18 now but he did the thing back in 2015. So he was a 16 year old. Waw.
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

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I was referring to the previous poster who described Yee's video as "it wasn't just empty personal attacks either, the video consisted of points backed by evidence."

Next time I should just repeat your words.

Actually given that there are some people who do think his arguments have merit, irregardless of how old he was when he made them, its most probably not a bad idea to do "the intellectual smackdown" or else his supporters might accuse opponents of failing to refute his points.
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

LKY was an ass, sure he and other succeeded due to their efforts and due to circumstances in making Singapore not a shithole, but he's still the ultimate Confucian paternalistic authoritarian. That he succeeded and that his excesses weren't too terrible mitigates this, fine. But people were still turned into political prisoners (sure for the time period he was no Pinochet, Marcos, Nixon, Reagan, or whatever and he wasn't turning the place into Cambodia...).

And it's telling that so many shitty Eastern European assholes, from the Tie Chewing Thomas Jefferson of Tblisi to Putin himself, as well as all these wannabes in Asia, get boners for LKY.

So. Meh.
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

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Well good news mr friendly guy, the trump administration is blocking Yee's asylum and keeping him in detention.
Singapore blogger remains in custody after granted US asylum

CHICAGO – A teenage blogger from Singapore who was granted U.S. asylum remains detained in a Wisconsin facility with few clues of when he'll be released.

A Chicago immigration judge granted Amos Yee's asylum request Friday. The 18-year-old came to the U.S. after blog posts criticizing his government landed him in jail.

The judge ruled there was evidence showing Yee suffered persecution in Singapore and had a "well-founded fear" of being persecuted upon return.

Attorney Sandra Grossman initially said Yee could be released Monday. Her office said Wednesday it appears Yee will stay detained while federal authorities consider appealing. Some immigration experts say that's unusual.

Department of Homeland Security attorneys have 30 days to file an appeal. They declined comment.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement says the agency doesn't comment on pending cases.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/29/si ... sylum.html
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

Post by K. A. Pital »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:LKY was an ass, sure he and other succeeded due to their efforts and due to circumstances in making Singapore not a shithole, but he's still the ultimate Confucian paternalistic authoritarian. That he succeeded and that his excesses weren't too terrible mitigates this, fine. But people were still turned into political prisoners (sure for the time period he was no Pinochet, Marcos, Nixon, Reagan, or whatever and he wasn't turning the place into Cambodia...).

And it's telling that so many shitty Eastern European assholes, from the Tie Chewing Thomas Jefferson of Tblisi to Putin himself, as well as all these wannabes in Asia, get boners for LKY.

So. Meh.
LKY was a typical Asian autocrat. The difference was, he could successfully vie for the spot of Britain's Money Laundering Machine, wrestling with other similar jurisdictions. All those who praise his methods sometimes even do try to implement them (both Putin and the Tie Chewer allowed many a questionable capital assets to pass through their nations), but it is simply not enough.

The sensible parts of Singaporean governance - industrialization, diversification, education etc. - which was much owed to LKY's subordinates (who remained in the shadow of the Graet Leader as usual), is usually not so important to them.

As for Yee, I don't care much about him or his views, but I think even people like him can be given a second chance.
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

Post by Simon_Jester »

Dominus Atheos wrote:Well good news mr friendly guy, the trump administration is blocking Yee's asylum and keeping him in detention.
This is some... interestingly layered irony.
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

Post by mr friendly guy »

Given the level of competence the Trump administration has demonstrated (2 executive orders restricting migration failing very quickly), I wouldn't be surprise if he ends up in the US. But you guys know what, most countries probably don't want him, so the US can have him if they want. If it turns out the administration's plan actually works, then Singapore just have to take him back.
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

Post by ray245 »

The problem with Singapore is we don't really have the community to handle any harsh comments being made in the name of free speech. The threats against Amos Yee is far more likely to come from your average offended Singaporean citizens. He already-already been physically attacked a number of times when he was out in the public.
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

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This brings up an interesting point. Is fear of persecution applicable to only the government or government affiliated entities eg militia, or does that cover attacks by the average person? Can a gay Russian citizen seek asylum in the US even though homosexuality is officially tolerated by the state? Can a minority in the US seek asylum in Canada on grounds of racist attacks and inadequate protection from police?
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Re: US grants asylum to Amos Yee

Post by ray245 »

mr friendly guy wrote:This brings up an interesting point. Is fear of persecution applicable to only the government or government affiliated entities eg militia, or does that cover attacks by the average person? Can a gay Russian citizen seek asylum in the US even though homosexuality is officially tolerated by the state? Can a minority in the US seek asylum in Canada on grounds of racist attacks and inadequate protection from police?
Refugees from war are granted asylum even if they aren't being deliberately targetted by anyone. What Amos Yee is fearing is more of the fact that he is probably going to share a bunk with many others that don't like him when he has to serve his national service in the army ( or any other branch).
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.
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