Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

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Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-03-12 01:12am

Also of note: water is fucking wet.

I've been trying to keep up with this. Article posted at the end because who knows what's actually going to come of it. I instead wanted to talk about one of the districts. I call it a "Gimme District." Damn son, just click the map and look at it for a minute. I said look at it. We talk about gerrymandering here, but I feel anyone who hasn't looked into it or LIVED in a state where it's a thing needs to just look at this map. This is what gerymandering is. This shit should be in a text-book because I don't think a lot of people can actually POINT to it when it's there. They just threw a lasso around two of the largest population centers in the state and grabbed up whatever else they could along the way, nabbing as few conservative votes as they could to give Democrats the few representatives they had to.

Mine is... not as bad. But if you knew the area it's still pretty terrible. Some asshole from Sugarland is my representative. Ugh. Though honestly, my local area is fairly white, but lassoing Richmond/Rosenberg into that group is an extremely effective way to ensure they have little voice. Also, that they even lost the original district to a Democrat in 2007 is hilarious because holy shit that area is Republican as Hell and they couldn't win there at the ass end of GW.

Texas right here boys. Go big, or go home.

A panel of federal judges has ruled that Texas’s Republican-led legislature gerrymandered some of the state’s congressional districts to stunt the growing influence of minority voters.

The 2-to-1 decision — years in the making — was issued Friday night. It invalidated three congressional districts in south and west Texas and in the Austin area. Although a remedy was not prescribed, redrawing the districts will probably aid Latino and Democratic voters.

The challenge to the districts was supported by the Obama administration’s Justice Department lawyers. The dissenting judge issued an acidic attack on their work, saying they painted state officials “as a bunch of backwoods hayseed bigots.”

[Appeals court says Texas voting law discriminates against minorities]

The congressional redistricting plan was drawn by the legislature in 2011, the same year that then-Gov. Rick Perry (R) signed a voter ID law that a federal appeals court ultimately found discriminates against minorities. A district court is now considering whether that effect was intentional.

The combination of rulings could lead to Texas being required to have election changes approved in advance by federal officials. It and other states, most of them in the South, were freed from that requirement by a Supreme Court decision in 2013.

The two judges who ruled for challengers in the redistricting case Friday said the maps and the voter ID law were enacted against a backdrop in the Austin capitol of “strong racial tension and heated debate about Latinos, Spanish-speaking people, undocumented immigrants and sanctuary cities.”

All three judges agreed that the legislature packed minorities into some districts and splintered them among others to dilute their power. But the jurists disagreed about whether that was simply partisan gerrymandering, which the Supreme Court has tolerated, or racial discrimination, which is forbidden.

U.S. District judges Xavier Rodriguez and Orlando Garcia said it was the latter. “The record indicates not just a hostility toward Democrat districts, but a hostility to minority districts, and a willingness to use race for partisan advantage,” they wrote.

Dissenting Judge Jerry E. Smith of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit said previous rulings over years of litigation made the case moot. But if he were deciding the case on the merits, he wrote, “Texas redistricting in 2011 was essentially about politics, not race.”

The legal battle over the districts has raged for years, and a trial on the suit ended in August 2014. Friday’s decision featured a nearly 450-page fact-finding report and a nearly 200-page opinion. The congressional districts voided by the panel are represented by Democrat Lloyd Doggett and Republicans Will Hurd and Blake Farenthold.

Judge Smith criticized the “arrogance and condescension” of the Justice Department lawyers, who he said came to Texas on a “witch hunt.”

“It was obvious, from the start, that the DoJ attorneys viewed state officials and the legislative majority and their staffs as a bunch of backwoods hayseed bigots who bemoan the abolition of the poll tax and pine for the days of literacy tests and lynchings,” Smith wrote. “And the DoJ lawyers saw themselves as an expeditionary landing party arriving here, just in time, to rescue the state from oppression, obviously presuming that plaintiffs’ counsel were not up to the task.”

Smith was particularly incensed by one unnamed lawyer, saying she showed “disdain for these proceedings by regularly rolling her eyes at state witnesses’ answers that she did not like, and she amused herself by chewing gum while court was in session.”

The remarks were similar to those of another Texas federal judge, Andrew Hanen, who last year lambasted Justice Department lawyers for allegedly lying to him in a high-profile immigration case and threatened them with ethics training.
“It was obvious, from the start, that the DoJ attorneys viewed state officials and the legislative majority and their staffs as a bunch of backwoods hayseed bigots who bemoan the abolition of the poll tax and pine for the days of literacy tests and lynchings,” Smith wrote.

I uh. I mean, cmon son. You basically just called yourself out on that one. Because that's a pretty fucking apt description if you leave out how much of huge crybabies Republicans were after the electorate handed most of you your asses when you fucked this country up, you had to go and vomit on a district map just to stop the spankings.

EDIT: Holy shit that 35th map is embarrassing for many reasons. But for me personally it's like: how shitty is your party that THIS is the way you have to win? I can't stop laughing looking at it even though the implications of it were terrible. Damn I gotta quit drinking.

EDIT2: Seriously, look at it. How is it not funny? The only way it would be funnier is it looked MORE like a penis.

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-03-12 01:40am

Was the North Carolina decision talked about here? I can't remember. But it was another instance I had to laugh audibly at how terrible the lawmakers were being.
The court said that in crafting the law, the Republican-controlled general assembly requested and received data on voters’ use of various voting practices by race. It found that African American voters in North Carolina are more likely to vote early, use same-day voter registration and straight-ticket voting. They were also disproportionately less likely to have an ID, more likely to cast a provisional ballot and take advantage of pre-registration.

Then, the court, said, lawmakers restricted all of these voting options, and further narrowed the list of acceptable voter IDs. “… [W]ith race data in hand, the legislature amended the bill to exclude many of the alternative photo IDs used by African Americans. As amended, the bill retained only the kinds of IDs that white North Carolinians were more likely to possess.”
It's like, "We didn't disenfranchise anyone based on race, we just polled members of a particular race to learn their voting habits, then passed laws restricting those specific voting habits." - Unflappable logic. It truly can't be flapped.

I think Bond villains are more subtle than this.

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby MKSheppard » 2017-03-12 09:43am

TheFeniX wrote:Was the North Carolina decision talked about here? I can't remember. But it was another instance I had to laugh audibly at how terrible the lawmakers were being.
The court said that in crafting the law, the Republican-controlled general assembly requested and received data on voters’ use of various voting practices by race. It found that African American voters in North Carolina are more likely to vote early, use same-day voter registration and straight-ticket voting. They were also disproportionately less likely to have an ID, more likely to cast a provisional ballot and take advantage of pre-registration.

Then, the court, said, lawmakers restricted all of these voting options, and further narrowed the list of acceptable voter IDs. “… [W]ith race data in hand, the legislature amended the bill to exclude many of the alternative photo IDs used by African Americans. As amended, the bill retained only the kinds of IDs that white North Carolinians were more likely to possess.”
It's like, "We didn't disenfranchise anyone based on race, we just polled members of a particular race to learn their voting habits, then passed laws restricting those specific voting habits." - Unflappable logic. It truly can't be flapped.

I think Bond villains are more subtle than this.


Have you actually looked at the law? They made it so that acceptable voter IDs were the same....as needed to buy hard liquor at North Carolina's state run ABC liquor stores.

Somehow the same forms of ID required are somehow not discriminatory when it's just buying Colt Malt Liquor. :lol:
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby madd0ct0r » 2017-03-12 12:50pm

state run liquor stores?


man you yanks have a weird idea of essential services to nationalise
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Simon_Jester » 2017-03-12 12:54pm

MKSheppard wrote:Have you actually looked at the law? They made it so that acceptable voter IDs were the same....as needed to buy hard liquor at North Carolina's state run ABC liquor stores.

Somehow the same forms of ID required are somehow not discriminatory when it's just buying Colt Malt Liquor. :lol:
Shep, I know you think booze is a fundamental right, but it isn't. Voting is.

Nobody gives a fuck if people can't buy booze, no one is significantly harmed.

You may not give a fuck if people can't vote, but that's your deficiency, not a sign that it's okay for the state to mess with that.

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby bilateralrope » 2017-03-12 12:59pm

MKSheppard wrote:
TheFeniX wrote:Was the North Carolina decision talked about here? I can't remember. But it was another instance I had to laugh audibly at how terrible the lawmakers were being.
The court said that in crafting the law, the Republican-controlled general assembly requested and received data on voters’ use of various voting practices by race. It found that African American voters in North Carolina are more likely to vote early, use same-day voter registration and straight-ticket voting. They were also disproportionately less likely to have an ID, more likely to cast a provisional ballot and take advantage of pre-registration.

Then, the court, said, lawmakers restricted all of these voting options, and further narrowed the list of acceptable voter IDs. “… [W]ith race data in hand, the legislature amended the bill to exclude many of the alternative photo IDs used by African Americans. As amended, the bill retained only the kinds of IDs that white North Carolinians were more likely to possess.”
It's like, "We didn't disenfranchise anyone based on race, we just polled members of a particular race to learn their voting habits, then passed laws restricting those specific voting habits." - Unflappable logic. It truly can't be flapped.

I think Bond villains are more subtle than this.


Have you actually looked at the law? They made it so that acceptable voter IDs were the same....as needed to buy hard liquor at North Carolina's state run ABC liquor stores.

Somehow the same forms of ID required are somehow not discriminatory when it's just buying Colt Malt Liquor. :lol:


How did they decide what forms of ID would be acceptable to buy alcohol ?

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Flagg » 2017-03-12 01:29pm

Simon_Jester wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:Have you actually looked at the law? They made it so that acceptable voter IDs were the same....as needed to buy hard liquor at North Carolina's state run ABC liquor stores.

Somehow the same forms of ID required are somehow not discriminatory when it's just buying Colt Malt Liquor. :lol:
Shep, I know you think booze is a fundamental right, but it isn't. Voting is.

Nobody gives a fuck if people can't buy booze, no one is significantly harmed.

You may not give a fuck if people can't vote, but that's your deficiency, not a sign that it's okay for the state to mess with that.

Simon, this is one of Sheps very thinly veiled racist posts. See, blacks (who as we all know from 90's rap videos) only drink Malt Liquor from 40oz glass bottles, often times spilling some on the sidewalk or parking lots "in remembrance for their homies no longer with them". And since blacks are often the target of voter ID laws, making them use the same ID for voting and buying Malt liquor is funny, to him for some reason...
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby MKSheppard » 2017-03-12 01:58pm

madd0ct0r wrote:state run liquor stores?

man you yanks have a weird idea of essential services to nationalise


My home county of Montgomery County, MD is run by Democrats for Life...and all hard liquor is done through County government.

So you have government employees delivering booze in government trucks. :P

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic ... trol_state
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby MKSheppard » 2017-03-12 02:03pm

Simon_Jester wrote:Shep, I know you think booze is a fundamental right, but it isn't. Voting is.


Constitution says freedom of travel is a fundamental right (it's been enumerated several times in Supreme Court cases); yet we have to show ID to board domestic airline flights, etc.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-scr ... tification

Adult passengers 18 and over must show valid identification at the airport checkpoint in order to travel.

Driver's licenses or other state photo identity cards issued by Department of Motor Vehicles (or equivalent)
U.S. passport
U.S. passport card
DHS trusted traveler cards (Global Entry, NEXUS, SENTRI, FAST)
U.S. military ID (active duty or retired military and their dependents, and DoD civilians)
Permanent resident card
Border crossing card
DHS-designated enhanced driver's license
Airline or airport-issued ID (if issued under a TSA-approved security plan)
Federally recognized, tribal-issued photo ID
HSPD-12 PIV card
Foreign government-issued passport
Canadian provincial driver's license or Indian and Northern Affairs Canada card
Transportation worker identification credential
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Employment Authorization Card (I-766)
U.S. Merchant Mariner Credential
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby MKSheppard » 2017-03-12 02:07pm

Flagg wrote:Simon, this is one of Sheps very thinly veiled racist posts.


It's actually amusement at the infantilization of People of Colour (POC) by the establishment and their ostensible political allies.
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby MKSheppard » 2017-03-12 02:11pm

North Carolina ABC IDs

Acceptable Forms of Identification:

In North Carolina, there are only four acceptable forms of
identification you can use to buy alcoholic beverages:

1. Current driver’s license from North Carolina or other states.
Currently, when drivers renew their driver’s license in
our state, the NC Division of Motor Vehicles provides a paper
20 day driving certificate and then mails the permanent
photo ID/driver’s license to the driver. Drivers are allowed
to keep their old license until the renewed license is mailed
to them. The temporary, 20 day paper license is considered
a valid driver’s license, but the customer should also show
their expired license along with the paper certificate when
asked for identification.

2. U.S. Military Identification. These identifications are
green and white with a photograph of the individual and
physical description.

3. North Carolina Identification Card. An official State of
North Carolina Special Identification (ID) card that has a
photograph issued to a person who does not drive.

4. Official passport issued by any nation. Passports may be in
the booklet or card form. Official forms of identification
include a photograph, date of birth and written or electronic
signature.

A wristband is not an acceptable form of identification. Other
unacceptable forms of identification include: birth certificates,
school or work ID cards, Social Security Cards, bill statements or other
identifications different from the 4 allowable IDs above.
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Simon_Jester » 2017-03-12 02:42pm

Flagg wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:Have you actually looked at the law? They made it so that acceptable voter IDs were the same....as needed to buy hard liquor at North Carolina's state run ABC liquor stores.

Somehow the same forms of ID required are somehow not discriminatory when it's just buying Colt Malt Liquor. :lol:
Shep, I know you think booze is a fundamental right, but it isn't. Voting is.

Nobody gives a fuck if people can't buy booze, no one is significantly harmed.

You may not give a fuck if people can't vote, but that's your deficiency, not a sign that it's okay for the state to mess with that.

Simon, this is one of Sheps very thinly veiled racist posts. See, blacks (who as we all know from 90's rap videos) only drink Malt Liquor from 40oz glass bottles, often times spilling some on the sidewalk or parking lots "in remembrance for their homies no longer with them". And since blacks are often the target of voter ID laws, making them use the same ID for voting and buying Malt liquor is funny, to him for some reason...
I was aware of this, I just don't care. My point is that, regardless of whether the argument is racist, it is also stupid. For reasons that are totally independent of the racism.

MKSheppard wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:Shep, I know you think booze is a fundamental right, but it isn't. Voting is.
Constitution says freedom of travel is a fundamental right (it's been enumerated several times in Supreme Court cases); yet we have to show ID to board domestic airline flights, etc.
You have a right to travel, you don't have a right to travel in somebody else's airplane. But you do still have a right to travel at all. So while you may be barred from airplanes, the government can't also turn around and bar you from cars, trains, bicycles, pogo sticks, and "say 'fuckit' and walk." They can't just bar you from leaving your house altogether and then claim "lol we're not infringing your right to travel."

You have a right to speak, you don't have a right to grab someone else's megaphone. You have a right to speak, you don't have a right to keep the neighbors awake all night with your speech. You have a right to speak, but you don't have a right to speak at all times, in all places, in all manners. However, the government can't turn around and bar you from speaking at all, only from speaking in specific times, places, and manners.

You have a right to vote. Thing is, "voting" is a one-supplier thing. It's a thing you can't do without government cooperation. You can still travel and speak without the government's direct cooperation; it's physically possible. But you can't vote without government cooperation.

Therefore, the government is on very very thin ice when it says "we won't accept your vote." Because you can't just say "fine, I'll find some other way to vote," the way that you can say "You won't let me board someone else's airplane? I'll drive" or "you won't let me deliver my speech here? I'll do it somewhere else."

Restrictions on how you vote are exactly the same as restrictions on who can vote.

MKSheppard wrote:North Carolina ABC IDs
So explain to me, Shep. Why isn't a social security card or a birth certificate an acceptable form of identification? Has North Carolina had a surge of ringers showing up to the polls with forged birth certificates lately? Where and when did that happen?

Gee, maybe it's because literally everyone gets those, you don't have to miss work or pay fees to get them, so poor people are more likely to have those than to have driver's licenses (for cars they can't afford) or passports (for travel they can't afford).

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Flagg » 2017-03-12 03:21pm

Simon_Jester wrote:
Flagg wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:Shep, I know you think booze is a fundamental right, but it isn't. Voting is.

Nobody gives a fuck if people can't buy booze, no one is significantly harmed.

You may not give a fuck if people can't vote, but that's your deficiency, not a sign that it's okay for the state to mess with that.

Simon, this is one of Sheps very thinly veiled racist posts. See, blacks (who as we all know from 90's rap videos) only drink Malt Liquor from 40oz glass bottles, often times spilling some on the sidewalk or parking lots "in remembrance for their homies no longer with them". And since blacks are often the target of voter ID laws, making them use the same ID for voting and buying Malt liquor is funny, to him for some reason...
I was aware of this, I just don't care. My point is that, regardless of whether the argument is racist, it is also stupid. For reasons that are totally independent of the racism.


Fair enough, and in full agreement, but TBH I was using your post as a springboard for letting anyone not "in the know", understand what's actually going on here.
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Terralthra » 2017-03-12 03:24pm

Massive crypto-racist red herring from Shep, as usual. How does this obviate in any way the ruling of the court? They researched African-American voting habits, found things that they tended to do more, then restricted those things specifically. And your answer is..."but liquor stores"? Seriously? Get the fuck out of here if you have nothing useful to say.

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Zaune » 2017-03-12 03:44pm

And if the red states were only making proof of eligibility to vote as onerous as proof of eligibility to purchase alcohol then we wouldn't be having this conversation, even if demanding any form of ID that costs money to obtain is a technical violation of the Voting Rights Act.
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-03-12 07:59pm

Was I so hammered I setup to have my own thread hijacked? Way to go FeniX.

MKSheppard wrote:Have you actually looked at the law? They made it so that acceptable voter IDs were the same....as needed to buy hard liquor at North Carolina's state run ABC liquor stores.
So? I'm not big on any government hiding services behind ID they don't provide. But at the end of the day: if people who are legally able to purchase alcohol, but don't posses the ID to purchase said alcohol, take issue with that: they can vote out the assholes who came up with it and vote in people that will represent their stance on the issue. Hell, they could vote for candidates who promise to reduce the drinking age to 6. That's their right.

But if the state doesn't provide ID and demands specific ID for voting, then does everything they can to keep certain classes from obtaining said ID: what recourse does that part of the electorate have?

So, yes actually: I do view this as a bigger deal than buying alcohol.

If you want to demand ID for exercising basic rights: you better fucking provide that ID at the taxpayer expense and make it stupidly easy to obtain. Otherwise, you're an asshole.

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-03-12 08:10pm

TheFeniX wrote:If you want to demand ID for exercising basic rights: you better fucking provide that ID at the taxpayer expense and make it stupidly easy to obtain. Otherwise, you're an asshole Republican.


Fixed that. :)

And yeah, I really don't get what's hard to understand about "People shouldn't have to jump through hoops for their basic democratic rights." That's why they're called "rights" and not "privileges".
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Gerald Tarrant » 2017-03-12 11:47pm

Zaune wrote:And if the red states were only making proof of eligibility to vote as onerous as proof of eligibility to purchase alcohol then we wouldn't be having this conversation, even if demanding any form of ID that costs money to obtain is a technical violation of the Voting Rights Act.


This is wrong, 30 seconds of googling found on the North Carolina DMV they offer a zero cost ID for voting and identification purposes, provided you do not already have a valid drivers license ( which would be a valid ID)

http://www.dmv.org/nc-north-carolina/id ... -Card-Fees

Sorry about the formatting, phones are a little weird to copy paste on. The design of the NC law looks pretty racist based on what info the legislature looked for. But it's no poll tax.
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Tribble » 2017-03-13 01:18am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
TheFeniX wrote:If you want to demand ID for exercising basic rights: you better fucking provide that ID at the taxpayer expense and make it stupidly easy to obtain. Otherwise, you're an asshole Republican.


Fixed that. :)

And yeah, I really don't get what's hard to understand about "People shouldn't have to jump through hoops for their basic democratic rights." That's why they're called "rights" and not "privileges".


Now now, this isn't just a American Republican strategy - Harper Conservatives tried something similar with the "Fair Elections Act," only for the bulk of it shot down by the Senate of all things :P

EDIT: turns out most of what Harper proposed got passed, not that it did them much good. Next time they'll have to make sure to ban Non-Conservatives from voting. Or maybe they need more fake robocalls.
Last edited by Tribble on 2017-03-13 01:26am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-03-13 01:22am

When I got my license in 1998 there was one DMV servicing an area with about 25,000 people in it. There's more now. The wait times, no matter the time of day, were ridiculous even into 2005 when I moved out of the area. The current city I work in has 1 as well, though the town is smaller at 5,000 people. The next closest DMV from there is 20-25 minutes away, depending on traffic.

The idea, in 2017, of going to a DMV for a photo ID is goddamn hilarious. It's the Department of MOTOR VEHICLES. Not the Department of "Papers Please." There's no reason even the local public school can't just take your photo (which should offer this shit voluntarily for students since every asshole seems to want photo ID these days) and you/they mail it off. Or the damned Post Office. This is not high security shit here, it's an ID.

I mean, you know how long I had to stand around a government building to get my concealed handgun license? 0 minutes. 0 seconds. I went to CVS, they got me a print for like $10. I mailed it, my form, and the "PASS" from my instructor to the State and now I'm packing heat whenever I want. But my carrying a handgun is somehow something Texas can automate to 21st century levels, but getting a fucking ID means I gotta stand around a DMV for 2 hours. PROGRESS!

I also laugh my ass off at the idea that I'm not required to show a cop photo ID even when I've broken the law. He's required to verify my identity off a name and address. But legal voting is all "whoa son! Serious bizness! Bend over while we verify your rectal print."

To be totally fair though, they do these changes right before election time because, even if/when they get challenged, the election is already over. So, all's well that ends well because no one goes to jail or gets recalled by shitting on voting rights. Throw some fuckers in jail and see how fast the system gets cleaned-up. HA! Fat fucking chance.... goddamn WEP and default Access passwords on voting machines. Jesus Christ these idiots.

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Gerald Tarrant » 2017-03-13 02:14am

TheFeniX wrote:
I mean, you know how long I had to stand around a government building to get my concealed handgun license? 0 minutes. 0 seconds. I went to CVS, they got me a print for like $10. I mailed it, my form, and the "PASS" from my instructor to the State and now I'm packing heat whenever I want. But my carrying a handgun is somehow something Texas can automate to 21st century levels, but getting a fucking ID means I gotta stand around a DMV for 2 hours. PROGRESS!

I also laugh my ass off at the idea that I'm not required to show a cop photo ID even when I've broken the law. He's required to verify my identity off a name and address. But legal voting is all "whoa son! Serious bizness! Bend over while we verify your rectal print."

.


Reading the Texas rules on this they note that a valid ID either drivers license or Texas state ID is required. So your comparison seems completely irrelevant, because the business of identifying you was already handled by your driver's license. Part of the reason this can probably be automated is they know who you are from your ID have you in some monstrous database and can very quickly verify all the requirements, "non-felonious status, check" " resident, check", "address up to date, check". Id's simplify all those useful things, which is why your CCW registration time was so much easier than your DMV trip. So to reiterate, your CCW experience, was a direct result of your ID being verified with state documentation.
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-03-13 11:29am

Gerald Tarrant wrote:Reading the Texas rules on this they note that a valid ID either drivers license or Texas state ID is required. So your comparison seems completely irrelevant, because the business of identifying you was already handled by your driver's license. Part of the reason this can probably be automated is they know who you are from your ID have you in some monstrous database and can very quickly verify all the requirements, "non-felonious status, check" " resident, check", "address up to date, check". Id's simplify all those useful things, which is why your CCW registration time was so much easier than your DMV trip. So to reiterate, your CCW experience, was a direct result of your ID being verified with state documentation.
Fair enough. But they used my Social Security number, given without documentation, in 1998, to pull my records. I also needed my school records, not so much for identification, but for the law requiring I be enrolled in school.

So, I guess I should really be angry at the DHS. Which helps me because I got in before all the post-9/11 horse-shit and kept my records up to date. Other people, probably thinking the world is still sane, have not.

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Gerald Tarrant » 2017-03-13 12:33pm

If you got a license while you were in school, you doubtless had a guardian or parent certifying that you lived with them. Or school records from your driver's ed program provided that certification. If it was a parent then that's a person from your birth certificate probably attesting that you live with them. So that's like 2 pieces of documentation as to address, parent's ID, and then parent's signed statement you live with them. It was four documents in Utah, or the birth certificate social security card and signed stuff from parent or guardian. Having had to get a new one after a lapse, it was exactly the same documentation requirements as the NC state ID had. I'd expect all compact states (both Texas and NC are members) to be like that, frankly.
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Flagg » 2017-03-13 01:06pm

Gerald Tarrant wrote:
Zaune wrote:And if the red states were only making proof of eligibility to vote as onerous as proof of eligibility to purchase alcohol then we wouldn't be having this conversation, even if demanding any form of ID that costs money to obtain is a technical violation of the Voting Rights Act.


This is wrong, 30 seconds of googling found on the North Carolina DMV they offer a zero cost ID for voting and identification purposes, provided you do not already have a valid drivers license ( which would be a valid ID)

http://www.dmv.org/nc-north-carolina/id ... -Card-Fees

Sorry about the formatting, phones are a little weird to copy paste on. The design of the NC law looks pretty racist based on what info the legislature looked for. But it's no poll tax.

Do they offer free transportation to and from the location to get the ID? If not, you gotta expend gasoline, take a bus or cab, or walk, which may not be an option for a senior citizen or disabled individual. Poll tax. you could do it by mail of course, but then the state would pay for postage (or make you pay, which is a poll tax), not make it virtually impossible for impoverished minorities who can't afford a fucking bus fare to go and wait in line to be told that their water bill isn't good enough proof of who they are and that they need the birth certificate they never got (being born at home) so they have to go to the county and pay for a birth certificate which is a poll tax.
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Gerald Tarrant » 2017-03-13 02:07pm

Flagg wrote:
Gerald Tarrant wrote:
Zaune wrote:And if the red states were only making proof of eligibility to vote as onerous as proof of eligibility to purchase alcohol then we wouldn't be having this conversation, even if demanding any form of ID that costs money to obtain is a technical violation of the Voting Rights Act.


This is wrong, 30 seconds of googling found on the North Carolina DMV they offer a zero cost ID for voting and identification purposes, provided you do not already have a valid drivers license ( which would be a valid ID)

http://www.dmv.org/nc-north-carolina/id ... -Card-Fees

Sorry about the formatting, phones are a little weird to copy paste on. The design of the NC law looks pretty racist based on what info the legislature looked for. But it's no poll tax.

Do they offer free transportation to and from the location to get the ID? If not, you gotta expend gasoline, take a bus or cab, or walk, which may not be an option for a senior citizen or disabled individual. Poll tax. you could do it by mail of course, but then the state would pay for postage (or make you pay, which is a poll tax), not make it virtually impossible for impoverished minorities who can't afford a fucking bus fare to go and wait in line to be told that their water bill isn't good enough proof of who they are and that they need the birth certificate they never got (being born at home) so they have to go to the county and pay for a birth certificate which is a poll tax.


This seems like special pleading, you also probably need to wear clothes to get into a polling place, boom poll tax, unless you're Amish or Hutterite and make your own.

The problem is that we don't have a national ID, and most states have shoe horned their drivers licenses into filling that role. So all the accompanying faults that go along with the DMV go into state identification. You realize that someone who uses a birth certificate might have to pay to replace it at some point? Boom poll tax. Or maybe those words dont mean what you think they mean. The historical meaning of a poll tax was yearly fees to establish someone's right to visit the polls. The only way I can see fitting the normal administrative fees for government documents into that category is if you decide words mean whatever the hell you want as opposed to their historical or legal meaning.
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