Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-03-13 02:48pm

Gerald Tarrant wrote:If you got a license while you were in school, you doubtless had a guardian or parent certifying that you lived with them. Or school records from your driver's ed program provided that certification. If it was a parent then that's a person from your birth certificate probably attesting that you live with them. So that's like 2 pieces of documentation as to address, parent's ID, and then parent's signed statement you live with them. It was four documents in Utah, or the birth certificate social security card and signed stuff from parent or guardian. Having had to get a new one after a lapse, it was exactly the same documentation requirements as the NC state ID had. I'd expect all compact states (both Texas and NC are members) to be like that, frankly.
I have no argument against the notion that me, as an upper-middle class white kid, showing up to a DMV with my mom (who kept all my records in a safe until needed) meant I not only had access to multiple physical forms of ID (none of which were shown except my proof of enrollment) but also didn't deal with anyone or anything trying to hold up the process of me getting a Driver's License.

By the way, my Drivers Ed instructor was my mom. So, no real records there. Well, there WERE, but the state screwed up on some things on their end. So, at the direction of a DPS officer... some information had to be "creatively inputted." There was nothing shady about it, I had way more driving instruction than required, but I doubt that amount of leeway and personal attention is offered to all "moral upstanding citizens."

That's kind of the point. In fact, I generally have little issue with anything in that area. One of the perks of being a goofy-looking white guy. It's not just that that system works AGAINST certain groups, it's that it works so damn well WITH others.

I still stand by the notion that if voting locations can't identify you based on a name and address, then they're doing something wrong and they need to get off their asses and fix their end. Because they damn sure have no problem finding people when they want them to pay into Social Security or sign up for selective service.

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Gerald Tarrant » 2017-03-13 03:13pm

TheFeniX wrote:
Gerald Tarrant wrote:If you got a license while you were in school, you doubtless had a guardian or parent certifying that you lived with them. Or school records from your driver's ed program provided that certification. If it was a parent then that's a person from your birth certificate probably attesting that you live with them. So that's like 2 pieces of documentation as to address, parent's ID, and then parent's signed statement you live with them. It was four documents in Utah, or the birth certificate social security card and signed stuff from parent or guardian. Having had to get a new one after a lapse, it was exactly the same documentation requirements as the NC state ID had. I'd expect all compact states (both Texas and NC are members) to be like that, frankly.
I have no argument against the notion that me, as an upper-middle class white kid, showing up to a DMV with my mom (who kept all my records in a safe until needed) meant I not only had access to multiple physical forms of ID (none of which were shown except my proof of enrollment) but also didn't deal with anyone or anything trying to hold up the process of me getting a Driver's License.

By the way, my Drivers Ed instructor was my mom. So, no real records there. Well, there WERE, but the state screwed up on some things on their end. So, at the direction of a DPS officer... some information had to be "creatively inputted." There was nothing shady about it, I had way more driving instruction than required, but I doubt that amount of leeway and personal attention is offered to all "moral upstanding citizens."

That's kind of the point. In fact, I generally have little issue with anything in that area. One of the perks of being a goofy-looking white guy. It's not just that that system works AGAINST certain groups, it's that it works so damn well WITH others.

I still stand by the notion that if voting locations can't identify you based on a name and address, then they're doing something wrong and they need to get off their asses and fix their end. Because they damn sure have no problem finding people when they want them to pay into Social Security or sign up for selective service.


I disagree. Most of the EU has national ID's, because it's an eminently sensible arrangement. The compact states could transition their ID's to that without too much trouble, but haven't taken the last step. It really is a question of having a tool which serves one function (proof of driving eligibility) and wanting to use it for other purposes (positive legal identification ). Should we make some changes if we take that step (upping the staffing on whatever building does state ids, making them automatic issue at birth, and free issue?) A pretty good case can be made for that. But positive photo identification on voters just makes sense too, you had it for your ccw, and firearms rights have a longer pedigree in this country than universal suffrage.
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Flagg » 2017-03-13 03:37pm

Gerald Tarrant wrote:
Flagg wrote:
Gerald Tarrant wrote:
This is wrong, 30 seconds of googling found on the North Carolina DMV they offer a zero cost ID for voting and identification purposes, provided you do not already have a valid drivers license ( which would be a valid ID)

http://www.dmv.org/nc-north-carolina/id ... -Card-Fees

Sorry about the formatting, phones are a little weird to copy paste on. The design of the NC law looks pretty racist based on what info the legislature looked for. But it's no poll tax.

Do they offer free transportation to and from the location to get the ID? If not, you gotta expend gasoline, take a bus or cab, or walk, which may not be an option for a senior citizen or disabled individual. Poll tax. you could do it by mail of course, but then the state would pay for postage (or make you pay, which is a poll tax), not make it virtually impossible for impoverished minorities who can't afford a fucking bus fare to go and wait in line to be told that their water bill isn't good enough proof of who they are and that they need the birth certificate they never got (being born at home) so they have to go to the county and pay for a birth certificate which is a poll tax.


This seems like special pleading, you also probably need to wear clothes to get into a polling place, boom poll tax, unless you're Amish or Hutterite and make your own.

The problem is that we don't have a national ID, and most states have shoe horned their drivers licenses into filling that role. So all the accompanying faults that go along with the DMV go into state identification. You realize that someone who uses a birth certificate might have to pay to replace it at some point? Boom poll tax. Or maybe those words dont mean what you think they mean. The historical meaning of a poll tax was yearly fees to establish someone's right to visit the polls. The only way I can see fitting the normal administrative fees for government documents into that category is if you decide words mean whatever the hell you want as opposed to their historical or legal meaning.

That's interesting since the reason there are free state IDs are... when they tried to make you pay for them and required them for voting the courts held that as a poll tax. Because when you require things that cost money to vote, it's a fucking poll tax.

And it's interesting that you bring up a national ID card. See, that's not going to happen with the GlOP in charge since the entire voter ID made up issue is pushed by the Republican Party who are so concerned with voter fraud (which incidences of are so rare as to be inconsequential) they enact these ID laws which do absolutely nothing to prevent the problem that doesn't exist, but rather create and championed the real problem which is voter suppression. See, if there were a voter fraud problem (there isn't) requiring a photo identification (there so isn't) then why haven't the Republicans who have held the House of Representatives since 2010 and the Senate since 2014 introduced a bill for a new national ID card, with a Photo? That would solve the problem with one fell swoop, right?
Oh how stupid of me! I forgot that it's actually about suppressing the vote of the people who don't have the time and/or resources to get the specific state ID because the whole thing is about vote suppression not vote integrity.

And of course I can prove with one 4 letter word (not one of my favorites :cry: ) that Photographic Identification does zip, zilch, and zero in preventing fraud that actually happens less than every second of every day 24/7 365: Visa.
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-03-13 05:29pm

Hey now. How do you expect Republicans to have time for that when they're too busy drawing weird duck penises on Texas maps?

Image
I didn't mention this when I made the thread because I figured I was waaaay to drunk to not come come off as weird(er) for mentioning it... or how I know what they look like. Then I realized I don't care: my first thought seeing the district map was "that's a duck penis."

I was going to go with "they're using duck penises for evil," but ducks are terrible people anyways, so that would be redundant.

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Flagg » 2017-03-13 06:07pm

TheFeniX wrote:Hey now. How do you expect Republicans to have time for that when they're too busy drawing weird duck penises on Texas maps?

Image
I didn't mention this when I made the thread because I figured I was waaaay to drunk to not come come off as weird(er) for mentioning it... or how I know what they look like. Then I realized I don't care: my first thought seeing the district map was "that's a duck penis."

I was going to go with "they're using duck penises for evil," but ducks are terrible people anyways, so that would be redundant.

Fuck you forever!

The best friend I ever had was a duck. I'd be nothin but tooth and bone grown into some jungle tree trunk in 'Nam if it weren't for Howie hauling my ass outta there. Last time I ever saw him was running back to look for more wounded as the chopper got the hell out for evac. Then the napalm fire rained down...

I heard from some Charlie piece of shit POW that they found him... feathers incinerated... They ate him... They ate the duck saved my life! Chinese style, they said... goddamned "crispy skin was the best part" were the last fucking words that Charlie shit said before I emptied my 1911 into his face... Got me a ticket home.

Every time we drive by a Chinese takeout, alls I can see is Charlie smiling with nothing above the bridge of his nose left..

They ate him... Bastards ate Howard... :cry:
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby MKSheppard » 2017-03-18 08:11pm

TheFeniX wrote:Hey now. How do you expect Republicans to have time for that when they're too busy drawing weird duck penises on Texas maps


Maryland Democrats have you beat.

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby MKSheppard » 2017-03-18 08:15pm

Simon_Jester wrote:So explain to me, Shep. Why isn't a social security card or a birth certificate an acceptable form of identification? Has North Carolina had a surge of ringers showing up to the polls with forged birth certificates lately? Where and when did that happen?

Gee, maybe it's because literally everyone gets those, you don't have to miss work or pay fees to get them, so poor people are more likely to have those than to have driver's licenses (for cars they can't afford) or passports (for travel they can't afford).


Funny how poor people somehow can buy Menthols despite North Carolina's Tobacco laws:

Link
Link 2

Article 39.

Protection of Minors.

§ 14-313. Youth access to tobacco products, tobacco-derived products, vapor products, and cigarette wrapping papers.
....
(2) Proof of age. - A drivers license or other photographic identification that includes the bearer's date of birth that purports to establish that the person is 18 years of age or older.


And in before Flagg MENTHOLS
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Zaune » 2017-03-18 08:28pm

MKSheppard wrote:
TheFeniX wrote:Hey now. How do you expect Republicans to have time for that when they're too busy drawing weird duck penises on Texas maps


Maryland Democrats have you beat.

Image

Nobody's saying gerrymandering is okay when it's the party we like doing it, at least not here. But as is depressingly often the case in politics, the party that takes a principled stand against gerrymandering inevitably gets trampled under the boots of the party that doesn't.
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-03-18 10:28pm

MKSheppard wrote:Maryland Democrats have you beat.
Holy fuckin' asscrackers Batman! Is that a district map or an Elder Scrolls dungeon? Bethesda gonna' sue somebody! Get it. GET IT!

Zaune wrote:Nobody's saying gerrymandering is okay when it's the party we like doing it, at least not here. But as is depressingly often the case in politics, the party that takes a principled stand against gerrymandering inevitably gets trampled under the boots of the party that doesn't.
Post stolen, so I'm just going to keep on drinking and play video games.

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Simon_Jester » 2017-03-18 11:47pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:So explain to me, Shep. Why isn't a social security card or a birth certificate an acceptable form of identification? Has North Carolina had a surge of ringers showing up to the polls with forged birth certificates lately? Where and when did that happen?

Gee, maybe it's because literally everyone gets those, you don't have to miss work or pay fees to get them, so poor people are more likely to have those than to have driver's licenses (for cars they can't afford) or passports (for travel they can't afford).
Funny how poor people somehow can buy Menthols despite North Carolina's Tobacco laws
Just answer the damn question, Shep. All this dancing around is pure intellectual cowardice and you know it.

Why isn't a social security card or a birth certificate an acceptable form of voter ID? Is there evidence that forgeries of these documents are a problem at polling places? Or is the state of North Carolina just bullshitting because it doesn't want to have to settle for letting people vote on the strength of the documentation it's actually required to give them?

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-03-19 12:18am

Simon_Jester wrote:Why isn't a social security card or a birth certificate an acceptable form of voter ID? Is there evidence that forgeries of these documents are a problem at polling places? Or is the state of North Carolina just bullshitting because it doesn't want to have to settle for letting people vote on the strength of the documentation it's actually required to give them?
I uh. Ok, so I'm like the oddman out here usually. I look at myself as just some kind of asshole who just shows up and posts some shit about video games or how Texas is awful, but could be a lot worse. But, I've never felt "part" of this forum enough to make comments about someone based on their posting history. Honestly, I kind of liked the whole... style of some of MK's posts, however.... I'm having some REALLY hard times figuring out how poor people being able to buy menthols is somehow related to voter disenfranchisement.

Like, I fully get Sheppard's jab on Democrat-mandering because it's pretty fucking terrible that it looks like a Morrowind dungeon and the Texas one looks like a Skyrim one... because it's a loot hallway and I love taking cheapshots. (The joke is that Democrats try harder to make more interesting district maps/dungeons and Texas should get of it's ass and try harder). And I got no love for Democrats as a party, though to be honest the few politicians I could see myself saying "fuck yer" for are all Democrat.

But, I mean. Menthols... WTF? Who gives a shit about how easy/hard it is to buy intoxicants: this is the right to vote. To make a difference in the way your country is run. Making participation of this aspect of government as easy as possible should be a general REQUIREMENT of the elected.

So, any time a politician makes the ability to vote more difficult: my baseline is "they have an axe to grind" and "they should be flogged."

I mean... is this thought process that far out there? We have enough problems with a disaffected voters, we don't need politicians giving more people an excuse to stay home when voting time arrives.

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Simon_Jester » 2017-03-19 12:32am

I'm only talking like this because it was such a ridiculous tangent, when I asked him a direct question about his own previous argument, one which he ignored.

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby TheFeniX » 2017-03-19 12:49am

Hey man, I'm not busting your chops or anything: I fully agree with you here. I was willing to just ignore it because "WTFBBQ." It's just.... menthol cigs? This is given that I laughed HARD at Democrats also gerrymandering like professionals. But this is like the convo I had earlier this week:

"Hello fellow co-worker, I'm a little worried, Trump's budget cutting EPA funding means we might be out of a job here soon though it's unlikely to pass."
"But at least my tax-dollars won't go to funding the Planned Parenthood abortion-machine."
"I uh....I got nothing."

I mean, I'm no big fan of abortion personally (even though the alternative is much much much much worse), but I'm thinking "what fucking tax dollars when I'm trying to collect unemployment/welfare?" This is ignoring the reality of what PP actually spends on said abortions.

Jesus fucking Christ, no point in even arguing a self-preservation stand-point: some people just want to watch the world burn so "whores gotta pay the piper" while they loose everything. We're on totally different wavelengths.

And cmon buddy, I'm three sheets to the wind and I can't get a fist-bump for the Bethesda crack? You're killin' me Smalls.

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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-03-19 07:40am

You almost have to admire someone who's willing to screw themselves and their family over financially for the sake of ideology. Almost. They may be an ignorant extremist, but they're willing to put their money where their mouth is.

Of course, that presumes they even put that much thought into their position, rather than assuming that the free market will make everything work out for them.
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Flagg » 2017-03-19 01:42pm

MKSheppard wrote:
TheFeniX wrote:Hey now. How do you expect Republicans to have time for that when they're too busy drawing weird duck penises on Texas maps


Maryland Democrats have you beat.

Image

So it's OK since Democrats do it, too?
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby General Zod » 2017-03-19 01:48pm

Tuquoque has been Republicans only defense ever since Donny dipshit won the election.
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Re: Court says Texas congressional districts gerrymandered to hurt minorities

Postby Flagg » 2017-03-19 02:45pm

General Zod wrote:Tuquoque has been Republicans only defense ever since Donny dipshit won the election.

Who are they comparing him to, a XXX Bozo? :lol:
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