Looks I might be avoiding the US for a few years

[Kon_El]

This article gives more details about what she felt was abuse

This reads like a trip to the DMV. Do bureaucrats in Australia not act like this?

[The Romulan Republic]

Its disturbing that apparently you consider it normal and acceptable for bureaucrats to act like thugs and petty bullies. I wonder how many share this attitude, how much such behaviour is simply normalized and accepted.

Why do American citizens have to act like a stereotypical battered wife toward their own government?

[Kon_El]

Its disturbing that apparently you consider it normal and acceptable for bureaucrats to act like thugs and petty bullies. I wonder how many share this attitude, how much such behaviour is simply normalized and accepted.

Why do American citizens have to act like a stereotypical battered wife toward their own government?

We hate it vigorously (why do you think we have so many libertarians ) but at the same time I have never heard of someone crying for hours because some government clerk was rude to them.

[The Romulan Republic]

Its just appalling that their's such casual acceptance of bureaucrats acting like petty thugs. That shouldn't be the norm, it shouldn't be taken for granted.

Though I imagine it varies from one part of the US to another, and one agency to another, how bad it is.

Still, I am suddenly feeling very grateful for the fact that I'm currently living in Canada, because, while we have our share of douchebag civil "servants" up here, I have never gotten the impression that that level of dickishness is the norm.

[Vendetta]

Its disturbing that apparently you consider it normal and acceptable for bureaucrats to act like thugs and petty bullies. I wonder how many share this attitude, how much such behaviour is simply normalized and accepted.

Why do American citizens have to act like a stereotypical battered wife toward their own government?

We hate it vigorously (why do you think we have so many libertarians ) but at the same time I have never heard of someone crying for hours because some government clerk was rude to them.

But why do you put up with it?

Like you wouldn't put up with rudeness from a customer service rep in any kind of private sector company, you'd complain, why do you put up with it because the rude person works for a government agency?

Because that's what 99% of public facing government employee positions are, basically customer service.

[Kon_El]

But why do you put up with it?

Like you wouldn't put up with rudeness from a customer service rep in any kind of private sector company, you'd complain, why do you put up with it because the rude person works for a government agency?

Because that's what 99% of public facing government employee positions are, basically customer service.

In the private sector people can spend their money at a competing business. With government offices not only is there no other option but you are often required by law to go through the process. Who would you complain to? Other government bureaucrats?

While I can see rudeness in her account I wouldn't describe any of it as bulling or being thuggish.

[mr friendly guy]

This reads like a trip to the DMV. Do bureaucrats in Australia not act like this?

As bad as some of our politicians are, mostly we don't act like people on a power trip.

In the private sector people can spend their money at a competing business. With government offices not only is there no other option but you are often required by law to go through the process. Who would you complain to? Other government bureaucrats?

The press. The ballot box. And yes, governments departments do have sections where you can complain about them.

I would not put up with this bullshit, so that's why I am going to be avoiding the US for a while. Which is a pity because I love to travel and there are lots of places in the US I haven't seen.

[Thanas]

This article gives more details about what she felt was abuse

This reads like a trip to the DMV. Do bureaucrats in Australia not act like this?

No, Bureaucrats in civilized countries do not act like that.

[K. A. Pital]

No, Bureaucrats in civilized countries do not act like that.

They sometimes do (and the US is a civilized country). They sometimes would abuse even those who have a certain right, and they would then claim they did it "because they were not fully informed that person X had such rights", or something else like that.

Being mistreated by bureaucrats happens ever so often. I think the last flurry of such stories is the Brexit thing where EU citizens are asked to leave Britain, but this only got into the spotlight because, well, it's Brexit-related.

Other abuse, such as those of immigrants from diverse backgrounds, very often remains completely obscure. The media take little interest, and people carry on with their lives (not everyone wants to put themselves into the center of a scandal, and not everyone even has the right threads to pull to gather publicity).

So this problem is not confined to the US alone, and this is the really sad part.

[Block]

No, Bureaucrats in civilized countries do not act like that.

They sometimes do (and the US is a civilized country). They sometimes would abuse even those who have a certain right, and they would then claim they did it "because they were not fully informed that person X had such rights", or something else like that.

Being mistreated by bureaucrats happens ever so often. I think the last flurry of such stories is the Brexit thing where EU citizens are asked to leave Britain, but this only got into the spotlight because, well, it's Brexit-related.

Other abuse, such as those of immigrants from diverse backgrounds, very often remains completely obscure. The media take little interest, and people carry on with their lives (not everyone wants to put themselves into the center of a scandal, and not everyone even has the right threads to pull to gather publicity).

So this problem is not confined to the US alone, and this is the really sad part.

Yeah, the results of the Stanford Prison experiment aren't unique to the US. Some people will always abuse power. Some of CBP seems to be acting rather unprofessionally right now, but it's not the norm. The DMV isn't as nasty as KonEl is making it out to be either. I've gotten licenses in 3 different states and the worst thing I've ever seen anyone say is "please fill out this form correctly before coming back up to me." Standing in line is annoying, but hardly the clerk's fault. I've had way worse customer service experiences at department stores who act like I'm trying to rob them for wanting to return something that lasted less than a week.

[Joun_Lord]

I can confirm atleast in my experience the DMV ain't that bad. I was sweating balls and bullets, also sweat, the first time going in to get my first ID but wasn't as bad as people made it out to be. Bad for me because being in a crowd has me a mess but overall the experience was not terrible nor was any of my subsequent experiences. Wasn't waiting away half the day or dealing with outright rude individuals.

The worst I could really say is some people weren't the most courteous and a bit terse though I'm naturally few of words myself so I didn't see a problem with it. Mind you I'm going to a DMV in a smaller state in a fairly lightly urban area so maybe my experience won't be the norm.

Though really other then the occasional dick cop and my one experience at the airport (which I've had a friend tell me it might have been partially my fault, he travels alot and says alot of people wearing cargo pants or shorts gets stopped) anytime I've had experiences with government workers they've either been neutral or positive.

The thing is America like any place has the occasional problem with power tripping douchebags in positions they can inflict misery on others. But for all the millions of interactions between public servants and citizens in the thousands and thousands law enforcement agencies, government agencies, and anything else things don't seem that bad. Horror stories of rude DMV officials, asshole (and much worse) cops, and government drones (the kind that don't fly) get us because they are so out of the norm. Nobody hears about the 99% of the time a cop stops someone without shooting them in the back 27 times because they were coming right for them, the times people are in and out of a government office or airport without a problem. Even the TSA probably isn't as bad as people make them out to be. With around 2 million people screened a day (going by 2015 statistics), there is going to be some fuck-ups (intentional or accidental) just by numbers alone.

The author from the OP had flew to the US over a hundred times, meaning she had went through airport screenings potentially over 200 times (i'm assuming they screen people arriving and leaving) without incident. Her only problem was a temporary inconvenience while the confirmed her visa (why people should use mastercard).

Thats not to say the TSA doesn't have problems and that people should accept any fuck-ups. The TSA does have problems, quite severe ones infact. But nothing to the degree of calling America uncivilized.

Now calling America uncivilized for our horrible inner city violence, horrible rural drug problems, horrible obsession with the fucking Kardashians, and horrible shit splatter on canvas bullshit we try to call "art", thats got quite a bit more merit.

[Dragon Angel]

The thing is America like any place has the occasional problem with power tripping douchebags in positions they can inflict misery on others. But for all the millions of interactions between public servants and citizens in the thousands and thousands law enforcement agencies, government agencies, and anything else things don't seem that bad. Horror stories of rude DMV officials, asshole (and much worse) cops, and government drones (the kind that don't fly) get us because they are so out of the norm. Nobody hears about the 99% of the time a cop stops someone without shooting them in the back 27 times because they were coming right for them, the times people are in and out of a government office or airport without a problem. Even the TSA probably isn't as bad as people make them out to be. With around 2 million people screened a day (going by 2015 statistics), there is going to be some fuck-ups (intentional or accidental) just by numbers alone.

The author from the OP had flew to the US over a hundred times, meaning she had went through airport screenings potentially over 200 times (i'm assuming they screen people arriving and leaving) without incident. Her only problem was a temporary inconvenience while the confirmed her visa (why people should use mastercard).

Thats not to say the TSA doesn't have problems and that people should accept any fuck-ups. The TSA does have problems, quite severe ones infact. But nothing to the degree of calling America uncivilized.

Have you actually been to another country's airport system and dealt with their customs authorities? Do you have any other experience with the TSA beyond your one direct encounter? You do know you are making into a hypothetical people's actual lived experiences?

This seems like your tendency to be a forced truther-in-the-middle and my does it get irritating.

Now calling America uncivilized for our horrible inner city violence, horrible rural drug problems, horrible obsession with the fucking Kardashians, and horrible shit splatter on canvas bullshit we try to call "art", thats got quite a bit more merit.

Please tell me this is just another stupid joke.

[Ralin]

Please tell me this is just another stupid joke.

I seriously think half the problems with his posts come from the fact he is convinced he's a lot funnier than he actually is.

[Joun_Lord]

Have you actually been to another country's airport system and dealt with their customs authorities? Do you have any other experience with the TSA beyond your one direct encounter? You do know you are making into a hypothetical people's actual lived experiences?

This seems like your tendency to be a forced truther-in-the-middle and my does it get irritating.

Experience, mine or anyone elses, is only a small anecdote in a much larger sea of experiences and not indicative of the wider problem. Just going on peoples experiences and ancedotes and using that as a fact to paint an entire group of people is how we get shit like the welfare queen bullshit, all bums are parasites with new phones and cars, everyone in the projects has a new Escalade, every cop is a racist murderer, everyone of (insert race) is a bunch of criminals, and the Star Wars prequels were horrible movies nobody likes and were failures.

Fortunately we don't accept anecdotes as pure evidence really, we use facts and statistics, and scientifical garbage. Currently as far as i can tell the facts don't seem to imply that the terrible experiences are universal or even happening to a majority of people who go through the TSA cold gloves hands.

And yes, I do try to go to the middle. No offense but I find the need to jump to one side or the other on shoddy evidence or emotion to be foolish as all fuck. I prefer to wait for evidence rather the rely on my ponderous gut to decide which side or the other is right.

Please tell me this is just another stupid joke.

Yes, I should think that would be exceedingly obvious even on the internet where the cues that normally clue one into something be sarcastic or a joke do not exist. Something so absurd like injecting the Kardashians or complaints about modern art into an otherwise serious wall of text should make it abundantly clear that such a part is a stupid joke. I know I haven't much room to talk considering I don't understand sarcasm at all IRL because I don't understand humor or those social cues (or really facial expressions and alot of emotions and no I'm not a robot) but even I can usually understand absurdist jokes online occasionally.

I seriously think half the problems with his posts come from the fact he is convinced he's a lot funnier than he actually is.

Hey, I'm very funny. Why else would people be laughing at me constantly.

No but seriously the problem is at times people are too goddamn serious round these here parts and couldn't understand a joke or bit of humor if it said knock knock. I'm not very funny, I know that, I try to be but like most things I try beyond getting fat I fail at it. Though I'd would assume the fact they are so damned shitty would make them all the more obvious but apparently not, hey another failure.

[Dragon Angel]

Experience, mine or anyone elses, is only a small anecdote in a much larger sea of experiences and not indicative of the wider problem. Just going on peoples experiences and ancedotes and using that as a fact to paint an entire group of people is how we get shit like the welfare queen bullshit, all bums are parasites with new phones and cars, everyone in the projects has a new Escalade, every cop is a racist murderer, everyone of (insert race) is a bunch of criminals, and the Star Wars prequels were horrible movies nobody likes and were failures.

Did you seriously compare the actions of the TSA, in which complaints lie in their standards of practices as well as the thuggish behaviors of their officers, to stereotypes of people of color based on racism? This is beyond comparing apples and oranges; this is just blatantly offensive. What are you thinking here?

Fortunately we don't accept anecdotes as pure evidence really, we use facts and statistics, and scientifical garbage. Currently as far as i can tell the facts don't seem to imply that the terrible experiences are universal or even happening to a majority of people who go through the TSA cold gloves hands.

How is that? Testimonies of countless travelers between the US and other countries show that the TSA's practices are extremely unpleasant to go through compared to almost everywhere else. It's about as accepted as water being wet and it being very difficult to hike from the east coast to the west.

And yes, I do try to go to the middle. No offense but I find the need to jump to one side or the other on shoddy evidence or emotion to be foolish as all fuck. I prefer to wait for evidence rather the rely on my ponderous gut to decide which side or the other is right.

You bend over so far backwards to be in the middle that I wonder if you have a spine at all left. How many more years of evidence and testimonies do you need when ... I remember this situation beginning to flare up all the way back in Bush's first term? Have you heard the saying "Reality has a liberal bias"?

Yes, I should think that would be exceedingly obvious even on the internet where the cues that normally clue one into something be sarcastic or a joke do not exist. Something so absurd like injecting the Kardashians or complaints about modern art into an otherwise serious wall of text should make it abundantly clear that such a part is a stupid joke. I know I haven't much room to talk considering I don't understand sarcasm at all IRL because I don't understand humor or those social cues (or really facial expressions and alot of emotions and no I'm not a robot) but even I can usually understand absurdist jokes online occasionally.

With examples like you comparing over a decade of complaints against the TSA with racist stereotypes dating back to Jim Crow, it is sometimes very difficult to tell with you in particular.

No but seriously the problem is at times people are too goddamn serious round these here parts and couldn't understand a joke or bit of humor if it said knock knock. I'm not very funny, I know that, I try to be but like most things I try beyond getting fat I fail at it. Though I'd would assume the fact they are so damned shitty would make them all the more obvious but apparently not, hey another failure.

I've commented on this before to you, but you have a writing style that makes it exceedingly difficult to read your posts. It's one thing to joke, but that's like painting with fine strokes on a canvas. Not splashing buckets of paint against a wall.

[Broomstick]

Well ever since the TSA destroyed my parchment replicas I have viewed them as nothing but uniformed thugs and this seems to confirm that worldview.

What ..... reason would they have to do that?

I mean, what?

From what I recall of Thanas' post - ignorance, mostly, and indifference, with a dash of thuggery.

[Broomstick]

This isn't really something that one can hang on Trump's head beyond allowing it continue, the TSA has been incompetent thugs for years, probably since atleast 9/11. Most anyone, American and everyone else, who has went through the literal clutches of the TSA has a horror story. Even me as someone who has never really traveled anywhere has my own story of being wanded and patted a few years back going to the local airport to rent a car. That was just me walking through the terminal or whatever its called to the car rental place, I guess I looked out of place or something in camo boots and boots despite this being WV.

Yeah, no kidding - did I ever mention on this site doing a pre-flight on an airplane in a general aviation section of an airport and having a TSA flunky try to confiscate the plane's fire extinguisher as a potential weapon? (Because, ya know, a solo pilot just might try to hijack herself or something)

[Broomstick]

This article gives more details about what she felt was abuse

This reads like a trip to the DMV. Do bureaucrats in Australia not act like this?

That's not how I'm treated at the DMV - at least not since I left Chicago, and not so much even there. This isn't normal human behavior except it now seems to be at American border crossings.

I'm an American citizen, always have been - even before 9/11 I found US customs agents and border security to be, if not drunk on power, at least inebriated on it and rude shits compared to their foreign counterparts. Can't imagine how shitty they are these days as I've not traveled abroad or via commercial airline since 9/11, but there are some horrific reports out there.

[General Zod]

This article gives more details about what she felt was abuse

This reads like a trip to the DMV. Do bureaucrats in Australia not act like this?

That's not how I'm treated at the DMV - at least not since I left Chicago, and not so much even there. This isn't normal human behavior except it now seems to be at American border crossings.

I'm an American citizen, always have been - even before 9/11 I found US customs agents and border security to be, if not drunk on power, at least inebriated on it and rude shits compared to their foreign counterparts. Can't imagine how shitty they are these days as I've not traveled abroad or via commercial airline since 9/11, but there are some horrific reports out there.

Muhammad Ali Jr. was recently detained for hours with customs because they wanted to spend time harassing him over his Muslim sounding name and he's an American citizen.

[Joun_Lord]

Did you seriously compare the actions of the TSA, in which complaints lie in their standards of practices as well as the thuggish behaviors of their officers, to stereotypes of people of color based on racism? This is beyond comparing apples and oranges; this is just blatantly offensive. What are you thinking here?

No, I'm comparing anecdotes to anecdotes. The reasons for them don't matter, somebody getting their ass beat by a minority and thinking all minorities are criminals and somebody getting the TSA grabbing their balls and thinking all of the TSA are ball grabbers are both instances of someone using a singular instance of something to form an opinion of all the people in that group.

Yeah the stereotypes based on somebodies skin color is worse, clearly as its not only based on flimsy evidence but also racism, but they are derived from the same mindset that applies attributes to an entire group from an individual.

How is that? Testimonies of countless travelers between the US and other countries show that the TSA's practices are extremely unpleasant to go through compared to almost everywhere else. It's about as accepted as water being wet and it being very difficult to hike from the east coast to the west.

Countless? Really? A bunch of people complaining on the internet is not countless. But even if they were countless they are still unsubstantiated anecdotes akin to "my cousin told me" in validity and ability to be proven. Substantiated facts, evidence, things that can be proven to be true. So what if something is accepted, once the world being flat was accepted, once gay people were accepted to be mentally ill, once society accepted women were inferior because they didn't have a dick, and you wanna know what all those have in common? They were based on shitty if any evidence, they were accepted without question and not based on facts, based on anecdotes and what others said.

You bend over so far backwards to be in the middle that I wonder if you have a spine at all left. How many more years of evidence and testimonies do you need when ... I remember this situation beginning to flare up all the way back in Bush's first term? Have you heard the saying "Reality has a liberal bias"?

I do have a spine, just not a very good one from terrible posture and sleeping rough for several years of my life (semi-homelessness and outright homelessness will do that for ya) Yeah I remember people complaining back then too. Notice I didn't say there wasn't a problem, quite the opposite. I merely said that I think the problem is in reality lesser then what people think it is.

I'm sure reality does have a liberal bias......to a liberal. I'm not a liberal though, not completely, hence the middling approach to things. Reality is how you view things filtered through the lens of your life's experiences and your inherent bias. I try to look at the world as objectively as possible, don't succeed anywhere as close as I want to, because I have a fairly neutral outlook, I don't automatically take sides, neither camp is my camp, I'm in the middle digging my latrine to lay in.

Reality does have a liberal bias if you use "liberal" as kind of a stand in for progression, which is true, life and reality is all about progression. A bias towards liberals pet values, probably not so much.

With examples like you comparing over a decade of complaints against the TSA with racist stereotypes dating back to Jim Crow, it is sometimes very difficult to tell with you in particular.

I'm comparing anecdotes, I'm comparing stereotypes based upon hearsay or singular instances. I'm not comparing Jum Crow era racist bullshit, I'm comparing modern racist bullshit when someone labels all of a race as bad people based on a instance of one being bad or hearing of one being bad. Stereotypes are just an oversimplified view of something, sometimes they are racist when dealing with races (I'd guess they pretty much always are when dealing with races considering its labeling an entire people based on skin color) but when not dealing with races they may not be. But still, racist or not, the point is stereotype is considered such because its a blanket cliche based upon limited if any evidence.

My point in comparing them is the fact that we do not accept, quite correctly, that all "black people are thugs" because its a racist as fuck stereotype even though some people might say "I got my ass beat by a black person (and all I was doing was waving my Confederate flag)". Its an anecdote, its not evidence. The actual evidence of black crime rates shows its a false stereotype, there is violence but to say all or even most black people are violent is objectively false, the evidence Trumps the anecdotes. And the racists cry because reality doesn't have a racist bias, boo hoo.

Just the same the thought that all of the TSA are thugs is a stereotype based on anecdotes and from what I can find doesn't conform to reality either.

That was my point, in whatever shitty way I attempted to present it like some fat ass hanging out a car window mooning some people, we accept evidence and rightfully shun stereotypes.

I've commented on this before to you, but you have a writing style that makes it exceedingly difficult to read your posts. It's one thing to joke, but that's like painting with fine strokes on a canvas. Not splashing buckets of paint against a wall.

I'd compared myself to fingerpainting from a toilet but thats just me. But thats one of the reasons I try out some of my shitty bits of humor is to test them out so that I might improve.

I'm not a funny person. I'm not even really much of an emotional person and I don't get humor or really any other emotions. I understand slightly better in a more removed setting such as across the internet on my dirty computer screen. I still try to have meat in my posts, hopefully more meat then fat with meat being content and fat being humor though. But I think injecting a little bit of fat, even my soggy heart destroying fat that gives you back boobs, into SDnet especially now with things being........well tense I'd say to be a good thing. Why I'm glad Shroom returned, dude is funnier while still making content filled posts better then I'd could be if I had a dozen lifetimes.

And I think we need some funny right now. Not alot to laugh at recently.

[Dragon Angel]

No, I'm comparing anecdotes to anecdotes. The reasons for them don't matter, somebody getting their ass beat by a minority and thinking all minorities are criminals and somebody getting the TSA grabbing their balls and thinking all of the TSA are ball grabbers are both instances of someone using a singular instance of something to form an opinion of all the people in that group.

Yeah the stereotypes based on somebodies skin color is worse, clearly as its not only based on flimsy evidence but also racism, but they are derived from the same mindset that applies attributes to an entire group from an individual.

*sigh*

This is one of the most chickenshit every-situation-is-the-same absolutism I've seen yet. Here is a testimony from a TSA agent himself about how rampant these annoying and abusive practices can get. I literally just got that from the first page of a single Google search. Ask people from other countries how their equivalents of the TSA act, and you'll find their actions and practices tend to be leagues better, even if still not perfect. This isn't just several isolated groups of people with a grudge against the agency. This is a gestalt of events that points to one conclusion.

And please, you know damn well (or ... do you?) people aren't just taking random, scattered anecdotes into consideration in either case. In the case of the TSA, you have over a decade of people and staff--piles and piles of them--reporting egregious abuses by the organization. It's a trend unto itself. In the case of racist stereotypes, you have over a century of culture stating people of color are inherently subhuman, should have less rights in society, and/or should be under the dominion of the white man. There is a crucial difference behind these two bases. Are you unable to recognize this difference, or are you unwilling to?

The utter irony of this too is that you're adding your own experiences as some way of justifying "it's not all bad, trust me!" You're talking of reality as if no one can possibly make an accurate judgement of the situation when you literally demonstrate you don't have a clue about the bigger picture.

Countless? Really? A bunch of people complaining on the internet is not countless. But even if they were countless they are still unsubstantiated anecdotes akin to "my cousin told me" in validity and ability to be proven. Substantiated facts, evidence, things that can be proven to be true. So what if something is accepted, once the world being flat was accepted, once gay people were accepted to be mentally ill, once society accepted women were inferior because they didn't have a dick, and you wanna know what all those have in common? They were based on shitty if any evidence, they were accepted without question and not based on facts, based on anecdotes and what others said.

I mean, if you want to erase a decade plus of experiences and call it "a bunch of people on the internet", why not. It makes your argument so much easier for yourself to just flat out ignore history.

Tell me, is it just that difficult for you to admit that the world really is as ugly as it looks, or are you going to take a venture out of that cave sometime?

I do have a spine, just not a very good one from terrible posture and sleeping rough for several years of my life (semi-homelessness and outright homelessness will do that for ya) Yeah I remember people complaining back then too. Notice I didn't say there wasn't a problem, quite the opposite. I merely said that I think the problem is in reality lesser then what people think it is.

Why are you fighting so hard to downplay everyone's stories as "lesser" when you yourself can't demonstrate how their vision of the bigger picture is fallacious? I mean, you claim you know there is a problem, but then you follow it with assertions of how it's not a huge problem. You are contradicting yourself, and you come off as very disingenuous. All you are doing is asserting that we can't possibly know it is a horrible situation and repeating that assertion. Not only that, you act as if all this is supposed to be normal in the eyes of the world.

Are you one of those people who denies that police abuse of black people is a widespread thing, too? After all, so much of that is merely "anecdotes" perhaps to you.

I'm sure reality does have a liberal bias......to a liberal. I'm not a liberal though, not completely, hence the middling approach to things. Reality is how you view things filtered through the lens of your life's experiences and your inherent bias. I try to look at the world as objectively as possible, don't succeed anywhere as close as I want to, because I have a fairly neutral outlook, I don't automatically take sides, neither camp is my camp, I'm in the middle digging my latrine to lay in.

In your quest for "objectivity" you look at facts and outright lies as completely equal. Such as when you're comparing a decade plus of accounts inside and out of the TSA to racist stereotypes derived from fake science peddled to justify slavery in the 19th century. This is so far away from objectivity as to be an utter mockery of it.

You're actually the perfect audience for "alternative facts" if I'd be honest. I've met a lot of people in my life who force themselves into the mindless middle, but you're one of the highest up on that list now.

I'm comparing anecdotes, I'm comparing stereotypes based upon hearsay or singular instances. I'm not comparing Jum Crow era racist bullshit, I'm comparing modern racist bullshit when someone labels all of a race as bad people based on a instance of one being bad or hearing of one being bad. Stereotypes are just an oversimplified view of something, sometimes they are racist when dealing with races (I'd guess they pretty much always are when dealing with races considering its labeling an entire people based on skin color) but when not dealing with races they may not be. But still, racist or not, the point is stereotype is considered such because its a blanket cliche based upon limited if any evidence.

My point in comparing them is the fact that we do not accept, quite correctly, that all "black people are thugs" because its a racist as fuck stereotype even though some people might say "I got my ass beat by a black person (and all I was doing was waving my Confederate flag)". Its an anecdote, its not evidence. The actual evidence of black crime rates shows its a false stereotype, there is violence but to say all or even most black people are violent is objectively false, the evidence Trumps the anecdotes. And the racists cry because reality doesn't have a racist bias, boo hoo.

Just the same the thought that all of the TSA are thugs is a stereotype based on anecdotes and from what I can find doesn't conform to reality either.

Leave your bubble some time in your life okay. If you don't want to, listen to other people. If you don't want to do either, just shut the fuck up. The practices of the organization allows its members to be drunk with power, like the practices of prisons allowing guards to have the same, and if you can't see that you will only end up making yourself look stupid in front of everyone reading you.

[Joun_Lord]

This is one of the most chickenshit every-situation-is-the-same absolutism I've seen yet. Here is a testimony from a TSA agent himself about how rampant these annoying and abusive practices can get. I literally just got that from the first page of a single Google search. Ask people from other countries how their equivalents of the TSA act, and you'll find their actions and practices tend to be leagues better, even if still not perfect. This isn't just several isolated groups of people with a grudge against the agency. This is a gestalt of events that points to one conclusion.

And please, you know damn well (or ... do you?) people aren't just taking random, scattered anecdotes into consideration in either case. In the case of the TSA, you have over a decade of people and staff--piles and piles of them--reporting egregious abuses by the organization. It's a trend unto itself. In the case of racist stereotypes, you have over a century of culture stating people of color are inherently subhuman, should have less rights in society, and/or should be under the dominion of the white man. There is a crucial difference behind these two bases. Are you unable to recognize this difference, or are you unwilling to?

The utter irony of this too is that you're adding your own experiences as some way of justifying "it's not all bad, trust me!" You're talking of reality as if no one can possibly make an accurate judgement of the situation when you literally demonstrate you don't have a clue about the bigger picture.

I never said other countries didn't have better agencies handling airport security. I'm not going to say for certain, I don't have the numbers to back it up either way. But anyway, I've said the TSA has problems I just don't think they are as bad as people make them out to be, certainly not to the level they think they need to avoid the country (plenty of other reasons for that). We have over a decade of hundreds or maybe even thousands of complaints, some of which are substantiated and some not. Hundreds or thousands of complaints in billions of screenings. Thats still unsatisfactory as any actual abuse of power should be unacceptable but not quite on the same level as people would imply.

Also I recognize the differences between the two but I was not comparing them on their usage, their effects on people, merely comparing the fact they are both stereotypes based on insufficient data used to tar an entire group, can you not understand the difference. Its like comparing a car and bicycle as wheeled mods of transportation, I'm making a broad comparison not comparing how they function.

The addition of my own experience is........an addition of my own experience and not really indicative of the overall situation. I acknowledged my situation was somewhat unique as I was not at the airport to travel and either way its just another anecdote.

I mean, if you want to erase a decade plus of experiences and call it "a bunch of people on the internet", why not. It makes your argument so much easier for yourself to just flat out ignore history.

Tell me, is it just that difficult for you to admit that the world really is as ugly as it looks, or are you going to take a venture out of that cave sometime?

I don't ignore history but I also don't put as much stock into instances of somebody on Twitter or Tumblr or some rando blog saying their mothers cousins uncles brothers best friends roommate had a bad experience. Its ultimately unable to be substantiated and is just a singular instance that cannot be used on its own as indicative of a large trend.

I know the world is ugly, the fact I slept in a cave for awhile (not joking about that), pretty much confirms it for me. Some random people saying so especially on the internet would not confirm it. Also the TSA grabbing balls doesn't mean the world is ugly anymore then it means America is uncivilized. Its a problem with a government agency and our culture that allows it to take place, for us to accept ball grabbing in the name of safety and security. Yeah the worlds an ugly place, though not as bad as people think, but there are quite a few other things making it so.

Why are you fighting so hard to downplay everyone's stories as "lesser" when you yourself can't demonstrate how their vision of the bigger picture is fallacious? I mean, you claim you know there is a problem, but then you follow it with assertions of how it's not a huge problem. You are contradicting yourself, and you come off as very disingenuous. All you are doing is asserting that we can't possibly know it is a horrible situation and repeating that assertion. Not only that, you act as if all this is supposed to be normal in the eyes of the world.

Are you one of those people who denies that police abuse of black people is a widespread thing, too? After all, so much of that is merely "anecdotes" perhaps to you.

I never said it was fallacious (mostly because I can't think of the word without giggling a bit), I said anecdotes aren't evidence. They aren't. By their powers combined with other data like reported numbers of instances and surveys and bullshit like that is evidence. Singular anecdotes are not.

My assertion is the problem is not as huge as people make it out to be, thats its some massively rampant horrible problem where its practically impossible to enter America with the TSA entering you, the overgrown panicky bullshit that only takes into account the few anecdotes and not the millions and millions of other people going through the TSA hands without said hands grabbing balls or bewbs. You cannot possibly know it is a horrible situation just going by the few anecdotes, its like going to California right now and stepping in a puddle and assuming all of California is covered in water. Kinda ain't looking at the rest of the picture.

In your quest for "objectivity" you look at facts and outright lies as completely equal. Such as when you're comparing a decade plus of accounts inside and out of the TSA to racist stereotypes derived from fake science peddled to justify slavery in the 19th century. This is so far away from objectivity as to be an utter mockery of it.

You're actually the perfect audience for "alternative facts" if I'd be honest. I've met a lot of people in my life who force themselves into the mindless middle, but you're one of the highest up on that list now.

I'd question your own objectivity considering you keep coming back to racist stereotypes that I've already explained why I used. You aren't stupid though you sure are acting like it right now because I apparently piss you off or something, you are burying your head in the sand and looking for anything to dislike about me.

Well thats fine, I'm not a very likable person anyway but I will explain again slowly so you can understand hopefully, when I compared racist idiots in days long past who held racist views based upon shoddy evidence to view that the TSA was all bad I was compared them SOLELY on the fact they are similar in that both were the result of stereotypes and accepted "truths" and not actual data, not actual evidence. I also compared it to the earth being flat and women not being equal because again all those were based on stereotypes rather then facts.

I'm trying not to be rude to you because I don't dislike you but come the fuck on, you are kinda being a bit blind.

Leave your bubble some time in your life okay. If you don't want to, listen to other people. If you don't want to do either, just shut the fuck up. The practices of the organization allows its members to be drunk with power, like the practices of prisons allowing guards to have the same, and if you can't see that you will only end up making yourself look stupid in front of everyone reading you.

I like my bubble, it makes me feel comfortable and warm!

But even in my bubble I can see that I never said the TSA didn't allow its members to be drunk with power, actually implied the opposite I believe, or that there wasn't problems with the TSA or that there wasn't people negatively affected by the TSA or outright abused. You have reading comprehension, probably better then mine considering most of my reading goes towards the pursuit of reading pulpy sci-fi novels, fracking use it and see that what I said is I think the problems of the TSA as told by others is possibly overblown, that people are making more of a deal about the problems of the TSA then actual there is based on available evidence, people are acting like its a forest fire because a tree is on fire, people are acting like the Titanic is sinking because some fishing boat sank, making mountains out of mole hills, saying Rhode Island is Texas, confusing Peter Dinklage with Yao Ming and so on.

The problem is there but current irrefutable EVIDENCE doesn't show the problem to be as bad as people think. People are using unsubstantiated anecdotes to make things seem bigger. Do you understand now?

Also I think I already do a good job of making myself look stupid in front of everybody reading me. And thats sounds a bit dirty, people reading me.

[Dragon Angel]

I'd question your own objectivity considering you keep coming back to racist stereotypes that I've already explained why I used. You aren't stupid though you sure are acting like it right now because I apparently piss you off or something, you are burying your head in the sand and looking for anything to dislike about me.

Ah yes, I'm not being objective enough, I should just sweep under the rug the masses of accounts and reports stating how fucked the TSA is and call everything even. That's objectivity!

Lay off the persecution complex too.

I don't ignore history but I also don't put as much stock into instances of somebody on Twitter or Tumblr or some rando blog saying their mothers cousins uncles brothers best friends roommate had a bad experience. Its ultimately unable to be substantiated and is just a singular instance that cannot be used on its own as indicative of a large trend.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=TSA+abuses

Also I like how you completely ignored the article I posted. Or wrote it off as ... that. They're all singular instances though, nothing to see here folks.

I'm trying not to be rude to you because I don't dislike you but come the fuck on, you are kinda being a bit blind.

Now this is an ironic statement.

But even in my bubble I can see that I never said the TSA didn't allow its members to be drunk with power, actually implied the opposite I believe, or that there wasn't problems with the TSA or that there wasn't people negatively affected by the TSA or outright abused. You have reading comprehension, probably better then mine considering most of my reading goes towards the pursuit of reading pulpy sci-fi novels, fracking use it and see that what I said is I think the problems of the TSA as told by others is possibly overblown, that people are making more of a deal about the problems of the TSA then actual there is based on available evidence, people are acting like its a forest fire because a tree is on fire, people are acting like the Titanic is sinking because some fishing boat sank, making mountains out of mole hills, saying Rhode Island is Texas, confusing Peter Dinklage with Yao Ming and so on.

I have never before found a more appropriate moment to post this but here it is...

The problem is there but current irrefutable EVIDENCE doesn't show the problem to be as bad as people think. People are using unsubstantiated anecdotes to make things seem bigger.

Show me the money dawg. Show me this "irrefutable EVIDENCE" that says so concretely that everyone is freaking out over nothing. Don't tease me here. If you have it, spit it out!

[aerius]

I hate to interrupt a good shit-flinging, but it's now official.
TSA gropings are about to become more invasive. Bend over, here it comes again.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... e-invasive

U.S. Airport Pat-Downs Are About to Get More Invasive
The TSA reacts to a study that found weapons making it past security.
by Justin Bachman
March 3, 2017, 2:25 PM EST

While few have noticed, U.S. airport security workers long had the option of using five different types of physical pat-downs at the screening line. Now those options have been eliminated and replaced with a single universal approach. This time, you will notice.

The new physical touching—for those selected to have a pat-down—will be be what the federal agency officially describes as a more “comprehensive” physical screening, according to a Transportation Security Administration spokesman.

Denver International Airport, for example, notified employees and flight crews on Thursday that the “more rigorous” searches “will be more thorough and may involve an officer making more intimate contact than before.”

“I would say people who in the past would have gotten a pat-down that wasn’t involved will notice that the [new] pat-down is more involved,” TSA spokesman Bruce Anderson said Friday. The shift from the previous, risk-based assessment on which pat-down procedure an officer should apply was phased in over the past two weeks after tests at smaller airports, he said.

The TSA screens about 2 million people daily at U.S. airports. The agency doesn’t track how many passengers are subject to pat-down searches after they pass through an imaging scanner. People who decline to use this screening technology are automatically subject to physical searches.

While passengers may find the process more intrusive, the new screening procedure isn’t expected to increase overall airport security delays. However, “for the person who gets the pat down, it will slow them down,” Anderson said.

The change is partly a result of the agency’s study of a 2015 report that criticized aspects of TSA screening procedures. That audit, by the Department of Homeland Security’s Inspector General, drew headlines because airport officers had failed to detect handguns and other weapons. An additional change prompted by the report was the TSA's decision to end its “managed inclusion” program, by which some everyday travelers were allowed to use PreCheck lanes to speed things up at peak times.

Physical screening has long been one of the traveling public’s strongest dislikes regarding airport security protocols. The TSA has all pat-downs conducted by an officer of the same sex as the traveler, and allows a passenger to request a private area for the screening, as well as to have a witness present. Likewise, the traveler can request that the pat-down occur in public view.

The new policy also applies to airline pilots and flight attendants, classified as “known crewmembers” who generally receive less scrutiny at checkpoints. The TSA conducts occasional random searches of these employees, and airlines this week inquired as to whether their employees would be subject to more frequent pat-downs. The number of random searches for airline crews isn’t changing and will remain a “very small percentage” of the total, Anderson said. But airport employees may face more random checks.

The random searches also vary by airport, depending on the screening program, Anderson said. “Sometimes it’s random, sometimes they’re consistent, based on the door you enter,” he said of the searches given workers with airport ID badges. “Sometimes, those measures call for a pat-down.”

In their notice, Denver airport officials said employees are subject to search at random locations: “If a pat down is required as part of the operation, badged employees will be required to comply with a TSA officer’s request to conduct a full body pat down.”

In December, a CNN political commentator, Angela Rye, posted an article online describing her “humiliation” during a TSA agent’s search. Rye wrote in graphic detail about the pat down of her genitals during a search at the Detroit Airport before a flight to New York.

TSA officials didn’t immediately address whether the new universal pat-down protocol will mandate touching of passenger genitals.

[Dragon Angel]

Do the Republicans just want to make sure they are never able to be elected again? Because this widespread change is going to affect everyone, including their core base.....

Just pile them all on guys. Make sure your party can never be trusted with power again.