Looks I might be avoiding the US for a few years

[mr friendly guy]

Australians are a little bit ticked off about the treatment of one of our children author's Mem Fox. I remember having her books read to me in primary school when I was still learning English

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-25/m ... ls/8303366

Mem Fox, Australian author, gets apology after being wrongfully detained at LA airport

Australian author Mem Fox has received a written apology from the United States after what she said was a traumatic detention by immigration officials at Los Angeles Airport.


She said the border agents appeared to have been given "turbocharged power" by an executive order signed by President Donald Trump to "humiliate and insult" a room full of people they detained to check visas.

That executive order was eventually halted by Federal Courts and it was expected a new order would be signed this week, designed to avoid the confusion caused by the original.

"I have never in my life been spoken to with such insolence, treated with such disdain, with so many insults and with so much gratuitous impoliteness," Fox said.

"The entire interview took place with me standing, with my back to a room full of people in total public hearing and view — it was disgraceful.
"I felt like I had been physically assaulted which is why, when I got to my hotel room, I completely collapsed and sobbed like a baby, and I'm 70 years old."


The author has seen enormous success, but has also had her share of rejections and personal trials. She speaks to the ABC's Julia Baird about resilience and her natural enthusiasm.
Fox, whose books include classics such as Possum Magic and Ten Little Fingers and Ten Little Toes, said she was questioned about her visa status, even though she had travelled to the United States 116 times previously without incident.

"My heart was pounding so hard as I was waiting to be interviewed, because I was observing what was happening to everybody else in the room," she said.

"They accused me of coming in on the wrong visa and they were totally wrong about that.

"The person who interviewed me was heavy with weaponry, was totally dressed in black with the word 'police' in hand-sized letters across his chest."
Author complained and got 'charming' response

The author lodged a complaint with the Australian embassy in Washington, and later one with the United States embassy in Canberra to which she received an emailed letter of apology.

"I said any decent American would have been shocked to the core by what had happened, it was so dreadful," Fox said.


"And I had an absolutely charming letter from them within hours of my email hitting their desk."

The author said she was unlikely to visit the United States again despite the friendliness of ordinary Americans.

"At the moment I'm in so much shock about it, I can't imagine going back to the states," she said.
"I'd hate not to go back to the states because it's been so good to me and Americans in general are not [like] the border police at LA airport."

She said the treatment of others in the airport holding room, including Iranians, Taiwanese and a Scandinavian parent with a small child, was just as poor, and all appeared to eventually have been released.

"I thought: 'How can human beings treat other vulnerable human beings in this fashion, in public, in full view of everybody?'

Embassy officials have a policy of not discussing individual cases due to privacy requirements.

The author's treatment by US border officials was condemned by many Australians on social media and her name was trending on Twitter.

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Parrot Of The Day @ParrotOfTheDay
Latest book by Australian Mem Fox - detained and questioned at LAX - is about welcoming #refugees and #immigrants
11:45 AM - 25 Feb 2017
4 4 Retweets 7 7 likes
Fox worried about Australian attitudes

Fox also said she feared Australia was heading down the same unwelcoming pathway as the US appeared to be.

"I'm very frightened that Australia will go the same way as America, with extremists in power, racist hatred, ghastly speech against decent people," she said.
"I have written a new book which is about, ironically, welcoming strangers to a strange land — Australia — and I wrote it because I perceived that Australia was losing its gorgeous warmth of character in our attitude to newcomers.

"The irony is that this happened to me at about the same time as I was about to publish this 'welcome to Australia' book."

These tweets kind of summarise what I feel.

I am old, white, innocent, educated, & I speak English fluently. Imagine what happened to the others in the room" - Mem Fox

Bloody hell, if the US are treating Mem Fox like a criminal then I'm not risking it. See you in 4 years America

Generally the customs at the US has always treated me in a courteous manner. I suspected its because I don't exactly fit the profile for terrorist. But Jesus. If an aging white female with an Australian passport is going to be treated poorly, well I think I will just spend my tourist dollars in Europe, or Asia.

[The Romulan Republic]

The Border Control people, or some of them at least, seem to think that they are Trump's enforcers, and have gone drunk with the power.

[aerius]

I've had a travel boycott on the US ever since the TSA was formed, the fact that the TSA even exists is reason enough to avoid the US.

The Border Control people, or some of them at least, seem to think that they are Trump's enforcers, and have gone drunk with the power.

They were useless power drunk twats to begin with, having Trump around just means they don't have to pretend otherwise. Instead of waiting till you're 20' away before laughing at the fact that they just strip searched you and illegally confiscated all your shit, they laugh in your face while you're getting the full body cavity treatment.

[mr friendly guy]

I can avoid the US when I go to Asia or Europe, but I will have to investigate if there is a way to avoid the US if I go on another tour in South America. Maybe I can travel via Canada instead.

[K. A. Pital]

Never once traveled to the US since twelve years ago. Seems like the right choice.

[mr friendly guy]

Customs also detained Muhammad Ali's son.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-28/m ... ed/8309856

Muhammad Ali Jr says airport detention made him feel 'violated'
Posted about 2 hours ago

Muhammad Ali's son has described feeling "violated" when immigration officials questioned him about his religion at a Florida airport.

Mr Ali and his mother, Khalilah Camacho Ali, said they were pulled aside and separated from each other on February 7 at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport as they returned from a trip to Jamaica for a Black History Month event.

Mr Ali, 44, said he was detained for about two hours, despite telling customs officials that he was the boxing great's son and a native-born US citizen.

He showed officials his passport and driver's license, said attorney Chris Mancini, a family friend.

"I was just appalled," Muhammad Ali Jr told AP in a phone interview. "I'm a US citizen and they're asking me, what is my religion?"

"I felt like I was religiously profiled.
"I felt violated."

US Customs and Border Protection spokesman Daniel Hetlage confirmed that Mr Ali was held for questioning by customs officers, but said "it wasn't because he's a Muslim and it wasn't because of his Arabic-sounding name".

The agency said in a statement that its officers processed more than 1.2 million international travellers daily, with "vigilance and in accordance with the law".

It said it did not discriminate based on religion, race, ethnicity or sexual orientation.

"We treat all travellers with respect and sensitivity," it said.

'We're having to fight for our humanity all over again'

Mr Ali and his mother said it was the first time they had been asked if they were Muslims when re-entering the United States.

His father, a three-time heavyweight boxing champion, became famous outside the ring as a civil rights champion. After his conversion to Islam, Ali refused to enter the military during the Vietnam War as a conscientious objector.

His decision resulted in a draft-evasion conviction, and he was stripped of his heavyweight crown.

Ali's legal fight ended in 1971, when the US Supreme Court ruled in his favour.

Ali died last June at age 74 after a long battle with Parkinson's disease.

Mr Ali said his treatment by the customs officials was the kind of wrong his father fought against.

"It's like history is repeating itself," he said.
"We're having to fight for our humanity all over again. And now they're sticking the religion on it."

Camacho Ali said she was detained for about half an hour and questioned about her religion and background.

"I was in a state of shock," she said.

"They started asking me about 'where did you get your name and where were you born and what religion are you?'"

While detained, she said she pulled out a half-century-old photo of her and Ali on their first date.

The customs officials gave no reason for their detention and no apology when they were released, Mr Ali and his mother said.

"They said, 'You're free to go,'" Mr Ali said.

"I was free to go as soon as I got here."

AP

They can ask your religion? What?

[Gandalf]

Looks like you're not the only one looking to avoid the US. Why visit a place where it's a dice roll as to whether or not you'll get through the front door?

President Trump pledged to boost the US economy with more jobs and growth, but one sector of the economy -- tourism -- has taken an early hit, industry leaders say.

Trump's January 27 executive order banning some travelers from entering the country led to chaos at airports and sparked protests at home and abroad. The order banned people from seven predominantly Muslim countries, including preapproved visa and green card holders.

The ban was challenged in US courts and temporarily halted on February 3 but various international travel firms have reported a downturn in people looking to take vacations in the United States.

Cheapflights, an online travel site, reported a 30% drop in international searches for flights to the United States the weekend of the ban, compared to the average of the previous three weeks. This picked up slightly when the ban was temporarily lifted but remained 14% lower than the average volume in January.

Emily Fisher, a spokeswoman for the company, said, "It's been interesting to see that the decline has continued even after the courts blocked the initial ban. That seems to indicate there is a slice of international travelers who will continue to steer clear of the US as long there is an effort to ban select populations."

Tour operator Intrepid Travel reported a "noticeable decrease" in bookings after January 27. Intrepid's North America Director Leigh Barnes said, "From January 1-27, bookings to the United States were up 120% from Australia and 96% from the United Kingdom. However, from January 27, the day the travel ban was announced, through February 16, actual bookings to the United States were down 21% from Australia and 30% from the United Kingdom."

The CEO of travel site Expedia, Dara Khosrowshahi, addressed the travel ban on the company's most recent earnings call, saying, "We have seen an effect on trading on a short-term basis. The weekend of the executive order, certainly we saw a negative effect on trading. We haven't observed anything meaningful on a trend basis so far ... which is good news. We'll be watching it closely."

The global travel intelligence platform Skift said 2017 was always going to be a bad year because of the strength of the dollar and weakness of the British pound. Skift Editor-in-Chief Jason Clampet said, "People vote first with their wallet. But if you add to that the general confusion/unease that Trump's actions are imparting to leisure travelers (who can choose where they want to go), and business travelers (who have corporate policies to consider) we should be prepared for a significant hit to US tourism."

It's not just tourism that's taking a hit. Corporate leaders fear Trump's pledged changes to the current visa system and a crackdown on immigration could hurt overall productivity in the labor force. CEOs of major American companies like Starbucks, Google, GE, Goldman Sachs and Ford quickly decried the travel order when it was issued. They said it hurts their workers and prevents the companies from attracting top talent to stay competitive.

Immigration attorney Corina Farias said: "The practical implications are simply that you've got foreign nationals that are frightened and really afraid about what is going to happen when they enter the United States. This is not only a fear that exists among individuals that are citizens of those seven countries or that have visited those seven countries, but this is a fear that exists basically for everyone traveling internationally."

Protests against the travel ban erupted in many European capitals in support of immigrants. Britain's Parliament was forced to hold a debate on scrapping an upcoming state visit by President Trump after a national petition was launched.

With the President set to unveil a new travel ban sometime this week, potential tourists will be watching.

President Trump has cost the US travel industry around $185 million (£148 million) in lost revenue, according to the Global Business Travel Association (GBTA).

The GBTA claims visits to the US have tailed off by 2.2 per cent since Trump implemented his controversial executive order, which banned citizens of seven mainly Muslim countries from visiting the US.

Although that order has since been deemed illegal by a federal judge, the slump in visits has apparently also been accompanied by a fall in demand for US-bound flights. A travel company, Hopper, which analyses billions of flight searches around the world, has said demand is 10 per cent lower than it was before Trump took office.

Hopper claims demand started to dip on the day of Trump's inauguration – down 5 per cent compared to the previous two weeks – and crashed by as much as 17 per cent in the days following his controversial executive order.

Although there has been a recovery since the ban was lifted, Hopper claims searches for flights to the US at the time of writing remain 10 per cent lower than they were in the final fortnight of the Obama administration. During the same period last year, demand dipped by just 1.8 per cent, suggesting the change is not simply a seasonal effect.

“Trump’s executive order has led to a significant drop in interest in traveling to the US,” concluded Patrick Surry, Hopper’s chief data scientist.

“While some would argue that a reduction in foreign visitors is a positive outcome, it’s clear that the vast majority of these potential travellers are simply business people, tourists, family members, students and the like.”

Echoing the concerns of the GBTA, Surry fears that the reinstatement of the travel ban could lead to a prolonged “Trump slump” for the US travel industry.

“If travel restrictions are reinstated it may send the message that visitors are no longer welcome in America and we could be seeing the start of a significant downturn for the travel and tourism industry,” he said.

Data compiled by another travel company, Kayak, which analysed flight searches from the EU to the US, paints a similar picture. It reports a 14 per cent year-on-year decrease in the number of EU citizens searching for flights to the US in January, when Trump signed his executive order.

“With 1.5 billion searches conducted on Kayak websites every year, these percentage changes are really significant,” said Kayak’s Suzanne Perry.

“The data strongly indicates that there has been a substantial decline in searches and interest for travel to the US since the start of Donald Trump’s campaign.”

While most of the world seems less interested in travelling to Trump’s America, according to Hopper there is one notable exception. In Russia, searches for US-bound flights have increased by a whopping 88 per cent.

[The Romulan Republic]

I don't see how singling American citizens out for religious examination can not be a First Amendment violation, but of course its far from the first time that people in the government have violated the Constitution.

[Thanas]

Well ever since the TSA destroyed my parchment replicas I have viewed them as nothing but uniformed thugs and this seems to confirm that worldview.

Getting patted down four times in a row at the same airport has not managed to do much to change that opinion either.

And I am a white male.

Fuck them.

[Dragon Angel]

Well ever since the TSA destroyed my parchment replicas I have viewed them as nothing but uniformed thugs and this seems to confirm that worldview.

What ..... reason would they have to do that?

I mean, what?

[Joun_Lord]

This isn't really something that one can hang on Trump's head beyond allowing it continue, the TSA has been incompetent thugs for years, probably since atleast 9/11. Most anyone, American and everyone else, who has went through the literal clutches of the TSA has a horror story. Even me as someone who has never really traveled anywhere has my own story of being wanded and patted a few years back going to the local airport to rent a car. That was just me walking through the terminal or whatever its called to the car rental place, I guess I looked out of place or something in camo boots and boots despite this being WV.

Now I'm sure Trumpo the Clown has made shit worse if for nothing else tehn creating panic and confusion with his moronic travel ban but he for once isn't the cause of the mess in the first place.

Though I will say, just going on the article, the author's treatment doesn't sound all that bad especially compared to the treatment some people have received. What she went through doesn't sound fun but not anywhere near bad enough to warrant some of the responses. She was detained, treated rudely apparently (which could have been just them being curt), possibly insulted, and treated with suspect by some cop. Sounds humiliating much like how it was humiliating for some asshole to be waving some wand around me and patting me in plain view of everyone with the added bonus for me of really having trouble with people touching me, like seriously alot of trouble to the injuring myself lightly afterwards trying to scrub where they touched.

But, and this is no defense of what happened, it sounds relatively minor. The fact she has entered the US over a hundred times doesn't mean it was anymore right or wrong, occasionally they might need to check visas. There was nothing wrong with her visa but thats the reason to detain her to check, I mean that sounds like what they are supposed to do in a situation if they find some fuck-up with a visa or make some error or whatever, they stop and check. Its not nice but being stopped by cops never is whether its at an airport, traffic light or walking down the street. Its uncomfortable, its humiliating, you feel like you are being treated liked a criminal especially if the cop is brusque. But its part of life, its a sucky part, but still part. Even rich motherfuckers will occasionally be stopped by cops.

Compared to shit like the TSA feeling up toddlers, ripping out colostomy and urostomy bags, making people strip in the middle of the airport, literally sticking fingers inside peoples genitals, making a breast cancer survivor expose her false breast, detaining children because they share their names with people on watch lists, racist as fuck screenings disproportionately effecting Muslims and anyone mistaken for a Muslim, theft, destruction of property, and being total shitbags to transgender people including outright insults. Seriously go google "TSA horror stories" and be disgusted, enraged, and disgusted again.

I know it sounds callous but being stopped temporarily by some rude fuck seems almost a non-issue. If she wasn't famous there would even be an issue for most people.

[aerius]

I don't see how singling American citizens out for religious examination can not be a First Amendment violation, but of course its far from the first time that people in the government have violated the Constitution.

Border areas are funny. When you come off an international flight in an airport and haven't been cleared through Customs yet, you're in what's known as the International Zone where many of the constitutional rights of the host nation do not apply. For convenience and border control purposes the IZ is not really part of US soil, you're not technically in the country yet so your full rights do not apply. In other words, good luck with the 1st, 4th, and 6th Amendment among others, it's like trying to claim your 1st Amendment rights when you're in Tajikistan. You can't do it cause you're not in America.

[Thanas]

Well ever since the TSA destroyed my parchment replicas I have viewed them as nothing but uniformed thugs and this seems to confirm that worldview.

What ..... reason would they have to do that?

I mean, what?

Apparently letters from the 17th century are some kind of secret muslim document.

Parchment / old paper replics also need to be handled with care.

So guess what happens when a fat idiot decides to grope them with force in order to examine them.

Despite me asking him to handle them with care.

[Kon_El]

This reads like a fairly standard Visa check that has been dramatized with a lot of flowery language to sell a book.

"I'm very frightened that Australia will go the same way as America, with extremists in power, racist hatred, ghastly speech against decent people," she said.
"I have written a new book which is about, ironically, welcoming strangers to a strange land — Australia — and I wrote it because I perceived that Australia was losing its gorgeous warmth of character in our attitude to newcomers.

"The irony is that this happened to me at about the same time as I was about to publish this 'welcome to Australia' book."

[The Romulan Republic]

Doesn't sound like a standard Visa check to me. And just because an author relates their experiences to their own work does not necessarily mean that they are fabricating an account for personal gain, an accusation which should be, but I do not expect to be, corroborated by more substantial evidence.

[mr friendly guy]

This reads like a fairly standard Visa check that has been dramatized with a lot of flowery language to sell a book.

"I'm very frightened that Australia will go the same way as America, with extremists in power, racist hatred, ghastly speech against decent people," she said.
"I have written a new book which is about, ironically, welcoming strangers to a strange land — Australia — and I wrote it because I perceived that Australia was losing its gorgeous warmth of character in our attitude to newcomers.

"The irony is that this happened to me at about the same time as I was about to publish this 'welcome to Australia' book."

She writes children's books dude. I don't think kids are going to go out and nag their parents to buy this book because of what happened here.

[Kon_El]

Doesn't sound like a standard Visa check to me.

What part of it sounded outside the norm? Read the description again. Lots of language about how rude they were with virtually no description of what those rude things were.

And just because an author relates their experiences to their own work does not necessarily mean that they are fabricating an account for personal gain, an accusation which should be, but I do not expect to be, corroborated by more substantial evidence.

I didn't say it was fabricated I said "dramatized", made out to be something it wasn't. Substantial evidence of what? Self promotion?

[Kon_El]

She writes children's books dude. I don't think kids are going to go out and nag their parents to buy this book because of what happened here.

Parents might, an author who had success in the past has a much easier time capitalizing on the nostalgia of parents than selling themselves to children directly.

[The Romulan Republic]

You suggested that she was being misleading about what happened for the sake of self-aggrandizement, and in doing so justifying the behaviour of the border control people.

Now, certainly, I'd like more details. But I'm not going to assume "Oh, she's just saying it to get attention" when their is a not insubstantial chance that doing so would put me in the victim-blaming camp.

[Kon_El]

You suggested that she was being misleading about what happened for the sake of self-aggrandizement, and in doing so justifying the behaviour of the border control people.

How can I justify behavior that is never described?

Now, certainly, I'd like more details. But I'm not going to assume "Oh, she's just saying it to get attention" when their is a not insubstantial chance that doing so would put me in the victim-blaming camp.

I have access to the same article as you and see no description of anything that would make anyone a victim. She was interviewed in a room with other people by someone in a "scary" uniform and that's it. That's all it says. Apart from celebrity status where is the story?

[Thanas]

I see no reason to doubt her version of events. It matches well with my own experiences.

[Lonestar]

What ..... reason would they have to do that?

I mean, what?

TSA's idiotic rules allowed some very specific tools be stolen from us while I was on a work trip to Nevada. The claimed no responsibility for baggage handlers stealing them.

The kicker? They were later found in possession of some TSA personnel at McCarren.

There's a reason why I check a firearm when possible, If I am planning on checking anything valuable.

[Lonestar]

Looks like you're not the only one looking to avoid the US. Why visit a place where it's a dice roll as to whether or not you'll get through the front door?

My fiancee works at a fairly well-known university in the District. Before she got her current position she did a lot of business development getting overseas undergrads to go to the University by cutting deals with the Ministries/departments of educations of foreign countries.

Overseas enrollment is in absolutely free fall. It's a rocketship, except the rocket ship is, as Leonard Nimoy said, "going straight to the bottom".

I suspect that Trump and the GOP don't care too much about academia suffering though.

[mr friendly guy]

This article gives more details about what she felt was abuse

There was an Iranian woman in a wheelchair, she was about 80, wearing a little mauve cardigan, and they were yelling at her – “Arabic? Arabic?”. They screamed at her “ARABIC?” at the top of their voices, and finally she intuited what they wanted and I heard her say “Farsi”. And I thought heaven help her, she’s Iranian, what’s going to happen?

There was a woman from Taiwan, being yelled at about at about how she made her money, but she didn’t understand the question. The officer was yelling at her: “Where does your money come from, does it grow on trees? Does it fall from the sky?” It was awful.

When I was called to be interviewed I was rereading a novel from 40 years ago – thank God I had a novel. It was The Red and the Black by Stendhal – a 19th century novel keeps you quiet on a long flight, and is great in a crisis – and I was buried in it and didn’t hear my name called. And a woman in front of me said: “They are calling for Fox.” I didn’t know which booth to go to, then suddenly there was a man in front of me, heaving with weaponry, standing with his legs apart yelling: “No, not there, here!” I apologised politely and said I’d been buried in my book and he said: “What do you expect me to do, stand here while you finish it?” – very loudly and with shocking insolence.

This had better not be a standard visa check, or else I have just been super lucky to get professionals who weren't drunk with power when I visited the US.

[Thanas]

I have not had something like this happen to me but it was close enough that I find this believable.