Denmark: No Muslim majority communities

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Newsline

Denmark Passes Declaration Prohibiting Muslim-Majority Neighborhoods
By Rommel Parane - February 15, 2017
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Denmark notably has one of the strictest rules when it comes to immigration in the European Union. The widespread concern of Denmark over immigration has made Danish lawmakers to introduce a number of laws that aims to keep the influx of refugees under control.

A new declaration was passed by the Danish parliament which makes it illegal for a residential area to be occupied by an immigrant majority population

The bill was introduced by the populist Danish People’s Party (DF) was supported by the ruling coalition and the proposal was passed with a 55-54 vote on Monday.

DenmarkThe bill was aimed to address concerns that the immigrant majority population of a Copenhagen neighborhood has exerted undue influence over the community.

Their statement reads: “Parliament notes with concern that today there are areas in Denmark where the number of immigrants from non-Western countries and their descendants is above 50 percent. It is parliament’s opinion that Danes should not be a minority in residential areas in Denmark,”

Opposition of the bill regard it as being racist with the text indicating a distinction between ‘Danes” and “immigrants from non-Western countries.”

Social Liberals leader Martin Ostergaard posted on his Facebook page about his objection to the declaration. He wrote: “How will we ever achieve good integration if it is stated in advance that your ethnic background prohibits you from being considered Danish? This isn’t just trivial hair-splitting, this is alarming!”

Proponents of the bill defended the declaration and said that it is an issue that needs to be addressed.

In a debate on Saturday, DF MP Martin Henriksen said: “I think that most Danes are outraged that there are places in Denmark where the Danes are obviously a minority,”

Henriksen added: “If you look at the official statistics, there are places where immigrants and the descendants of immigrants from non-Western countries are the majority. We in the Danish Peoples’ Party think that’s a problem and we need to talk about it.”

Denmark has not been a magnet for immigration with a notable reputation as Western Europe’s least attractive country for refugees. However this has not stopped migrants from seeking asylum, as the country host about six hundred thousand refugees and immigrants which accounts for 12.3 percent of Denmark’s population.

For those more familiar with Denmark, and everything going on in Europe, is this an outlier of trends or more in line with what's going on?

[K. A. Pital]

Northern Europe in general has very strict immigration rules.

Germany and Belgium are actually the outliers with their lax policies regarding residency, permanent residency and citizenship acquisition, etc.

Switzerland is probably the most notorious anti-immigrant country in Europe (it even treats other Europeans as unwanted visitors who have to leave, and nothing more), and many other nations are far from the welcoming image people have when they choose to immigrate here.

But like I said above, there are good examples too.

[ray245]

This in some ways reminds me of the policies in Singapore, where we actively prevent segregated communities from forming. A more evenly distributed minority community could help to disperse the anxiety of integration.

[SolarpunkFan]

This in some ways reminds me of the policies in Singapore, where we actively prevent segregated communities from forming. A more evenly distributed minority community could help to disperse the anxiety of integration.

Yeah. Though I'm not quite sure how to feel about these things. There's a lot of (sometimes subtle) nuances and regional differences that make it difficult for me to get a good grasp on optimal policies.

Maybe there is no such beast.

[Simon_Jester]

The real question is, is the Danish government actually taking the time and effort to distribute the refugees among the population? To say "well, if one eighth of our population currently consists of refugees and immigrants, we just have to make sure that every community takes in an average of about one immigrant per seven or so Danish nationals!"

Or are they saying "well, the only place we can put refugees is in [insert list of ghettoes here], but then those ghettos would be majority-refugee, and we can't have THAT, so no refugees allowed!"

Those are two very different stances to take.

[ray245]

This in some ways reminds me of the policies in Singapore, where we actively prevent segregated communities from forming. A more evenly distributed minority community could help to disperse the anxiety of integration.

Yeah. Though I'm not quite sure how to feel about these things. There's a lot of (sometimes subtle) nuances and regional differences that make it difficult for me to get a good grasp on optimal policies.

Maybe there is no such beast.

Societies and nations by extensions are built upon the notions of common ground and shared experiences. For someone that belongs to a majority to suddenly find themselves in a minority dominated area, or simply somewhere foreign can be an extremely emotionally stressful experience for many people, regardless of their actual views on race.

[Zaune]

I can see where they're coming from, kind of; I get that recent arrivals clustering together to stave of homesickness can easily turn into self-segregation, which isn't healthy for anyone.

But somehow I really can't see anything good coming from telling someone, "Sorry, we've hit our maximum allowance for non-whites here, you'll have to move somewhere else". I mean, would that make you feel like integrating with the local community?

[Shroom Man 777]

Just like how Butcher Bill was hating on ethnicity-majority communities in New York, the East Coast, etc. in the US in the past.

[wautd]

Good for Denmark. Ghetto's are bad and I'm pretty sure the recent undercover mosque documentary opened a lot of eyes in Denmark. So called moderate mosques preaching sharia barbarism or integration with "kuffars" being frowned upon (although taking their free money from social security is offcourse acceptable), is not a good way towards integration.

[Crazedwraith]

Good for Denmark. Ghetto's are bad and I'm pretty sure the recent undercover mosque documentary opened a lot of eyes in Denmark. So called moderate mosques preaching sharia barbarism or integration with "kuffars" being frowned upon (although taking their free money from social security is offcourse acceptable), is not a good way towards integration.

Yes, ghettoisation is bad. But saying 'we can control where you live because you are the wrong colour' is hardly going to aid integration is it?

[mr friendly guy]

Good for Denmark. Ghetto's are bad and I'm pretty sure the recent undercover mosque documentary opened a lot of eyes in Denmark. So called moderate mosques preaching sharia barbarism or integration with "kuffars" being frowned upon (although taking their free money from social security is offcourse acceptable), is not a good way towards integration.

What undercover mosque documentary. I want to try and find it.

[wautd]

Good for Denmark. Ghetto's are bad and I'm pretty sure the recent undercover mosque documentary opened a lot of eyes in Denmark. So called moderate mosques preaching sharia barbarism or integration with "kuffars" being frowned upon (although taking their free money from social security is offcourse acceptable), is not a good way towards integration.

What undercover mosque documentary. I want to try and find it.

I saw it via a belgian tv channel so it's with dutch commentator and subtitles. I don't remember how much english/arabic there was spoken in the actual docu (I don't have sound right now) so I don't know how far this link will be useful to you.

[FTeik]

But, but ... if that law turns into practice those dirty foreigners will pollute our nice and tidy neighbourhoods, pulling down the prices for our homes and infesting our pets with fleas. Better they stay among their own kind in the ghetto, where they belong.

[mr friendly guy]

I saw it via a belgian tv channel so it's with dutch commentator and subtitles. I don't remember how much english/arabic there was spoken in the actual docu (I don't have sound right now) so I don't know how far this link will be useful to you.

Thanks. I managed to find a youtube video with the same name with dutch subtitles. So I downloaded the subtitles and video, put the subtitles through a translator which turns it into english, and then I can watch it with the new subtitles. Unfortunately with such programs, the translation is very funny, but in the first 2 minutes I think I get the gist of the message.

[wautd]

I saw it via a belgian tv channel so it's with dutch commentator and subtitles. I don't remember how much english/arabic there was spoken in the actual docu (I don't have sound right now) so I don't know how far this link will be useful to you.

Thanks. I managed to find a youtube video with the same name with dutch subtitles. So I downloaded the subtitles and video, put the subtitles through a translator which turns it into english, and then I can watch it with the new subtitles. Unfortunately with such programs, the translation is very funny, but in the first 2 minutes I think I get the gist of the message.

OK cool. I originally wanted to post a youtube link but I couldn't find the full docu (on youtube it was only 30 minutes for some reason)

[Hillary]

Yes - I mean all the majority Asian, Irish, Polish, Chinese, etc communities in the UK have created all manner of problems.....oh, wait, no they haven't.

[ray245]

Yes - I mean all the majority Asian, Irish, Polish, Chinese, etc communities in the UK have created all manner of problems.....oh, wait, no they haven't.

There are consequences to segregated communities. It does fuel people's anxiety over integration. Sure, that might not be logical, but humanity have consistently shown ourselves to be emotional rather than logical creatures.

You can't preach logic and assume that everyone will accept your reasoning.

[AniThyng]

Yes - I mean all the majority Asian, Irish, Polish, Chinese, etc communities in the UK have created all manner of problems.....oh, wait, no they haven't.

There are consequences to segregated communities. It does fuel people's anxiety over integration. Sure, that might not be logical, but humanity have consistently shown ourselves to be emotional rather than logical creatures.

You can't preach logic and assume that everyone will accept your reasoning.

"Segregation" of chinese neighbourhoods from malay neigbourhoods has certainly worked wonders* for Malaysia. It solved some problems, sure, but created entirely new ones too. It really isn't that simple. Singapore has a point in doing what it does, looking at how things worked out for its neighbor and cultural mirror.

*by which i mean of course we get terrific class AND race divides now too, and religious tension.

[The Romulan Republic]

Whatever rationalizations one can make in defence of this rule, about the dangers of segregated communities and so forth, I don't think they hold water here (not that I'd ever be too keen on the idea of telling people where they can live based on what minority group they belong to).

And I quote from the OP article:

DenmarkThe bill was aimed to address concerns that the immigrant majority population of a Copenhagen neighborhood has exerted undue influence over the community.

Their statement reads: “Parliament notes with concern that today there are areas in Denmark where the number of immigrants from non-Western countries and their descendants is above 50 percent. It is parliament’s opinion that Danes should not be a minority in residential areas in Denmark,”

Opposition of the bill regard it as being racist with the text indicating a distinction between ‘Danes” and “immigrants from non-Western countries.”

So yes, this is just more of the usual "Immigrants are taking over our country" bigoted fear-mongering. The intent, it appears, is to marginalize, not facilitate integration.

The article's title is misleading though: It says the bill targets specifically Muslim majority neighbourhoods, while the text of the article says it applies to immigrants generally. Not that that in any way makes it better. It just means they're casting a broader net in terms of who they discriminate against.

[K. A. Pital]

Yes - I mean all the majority Asian, Irish, Polish, Chinese, etc communities in the UK have created all manner of problems.....oh, wait, no they haven't.

Yes, they haven't. But Molenbeek has.

[madd0ct0r]

Yes - I mean all the majority Asian, Irish, Polish, Chinese, etc communities in the UK have created all manner of problems.....oh, wait, no they haven't.

Yes, they haven't. But Molenbeek has.

Majority bme neighbourhoods in the UK are vanishingly rare. we have too many different ethic groups. There's precious few majority non white areas. There are plenty of ethnic groups targeted as troublemakers though. Vietnamese being one. Northern Irish another.

Denmark doesn't have the same population or history of invading the rest of the world. I'm not saying this law is well designed but ghettos are bad.

[mr friendly guy]

Denmark doesn't have the same population or history of invading the rest of the world. I'm not saying this law is well designed but ghettos are bad.

Aside from Sweden. Sweden and Denmark has had lots of wars with each other.

That being said, my limited impression of the Nordic countries are that they are easy going, with strong welfare systems and traditionally very homogenous. Edi told me that when he was a child he would rarely see an African person in Finland, but now we met some on the first day I was in Helsinki at the bus stop.

I don't think they have the experience with integrating new migrants the same way the US, Canada and Australia have. Although given our fuck ups in the past, maybe they could maybe avoid those. Although I wouldn't recommend the German model which prompted Merkel a few years ago to say multiculturalism has failed and Thanas describing second generation Turkish immigrants who can barely speak German. Frankly for a second generation migrant in Australia to fail to speak English (unless one has an intellectual disability or is from a remote Indigenous community) is unthinkable.

To give another example, in Eurovision when I purchased an Australian flag from a local vendor, he asked me where I was from. I pointed to the Australian flag and said Australia, and he couldn't believe it, because he kept on asking where were you originally from. Telling the story of my former boss he thought (erroneously) that was because Australians didn't go to Eurovision. The fact that I was ethnically Asian but Australian nationality wasn't strange to him because lots of Australians are either born or have a parent born overseas, so he assumed the Swedish vendor was surprised because he didn't think Australians went to Eurovision. On another note, I swear, there was only one other Asian there in the crowd.

The point is, unless you're a racist in Australia, it wouldn't be strange to you that some of us are not white or indigenous, but I dare say to the residents of those countries, "average people" might find it rare if you were black and Danish or Swedish, to the point where they disbelieve. I don't base this claim purely on my anecdotal evidence, but I have heard others comment on this from other sources. This attitude to my mind, stems from a lack of experience with other people living in your nation as these have been largely homogenous.

Despite this lack of experience, I understand Sweden is very welcoming to immigrants, and Finland (depending on the government) to a lesser extent. Denmark is not so, although I clearly do see lots of non ethnic Danes working in Copenhagen shops and at Tivoli. Denmark did have an Australian princess and a previously a Hong Kong one as well (before the divorce).

I did however hear from my taxi driver, that in his opinion, Danes weren't very welcoming and the only reason I got treated well was that I was clearly a tourist. (Or it could be I wasn't a Muslim). From what I have seen, the Danes are more strict with immigration and are keen to force integration in ways modern Australia would not do.

[mr friendly guy]

If anyone is interested, there is a debate between Swedish and Danish politicians on the issue of refugees and showcases their difference in opinions.



Yeah I paid attention to this issue in 2015 while planning a trip to those countries.