Michael Flynn has resigned

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Executor32
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Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by Executor32 »

CNN wrote:Flynn resigns amid controversy over Russia contacts
By Sara Murray, Gloria Borger and Jeremy Diamond, CNN
Updated 11:30 PM ET, Mon February 13, 2017

Washington (CNN) — Embattled White House national security adviser Michael Flynn resigned Monday night, two sources tell CNN.

His departure came just after reports surfaced the Justice Department warned the Trump administration last month that Flynn misled administration officials regarding his communications with the Russian ambassador to the United States and was potentially vulnerable to blackmail by the Russians.

"I inadvertently briefed the Vice President-elect and others with incomplete information regarding my phone calls with the Russian ambassador. I have sincerely apologized to the President and the Vice President, and they have accepted my apology," Flynn wrote according to a copy of his resignation letter obtained by CNN.

"I am tendering my resignation, honored to have served our nation and the American people in such a distinguished way," he wrote. "I know with the strong leadership of President Donald J. Trump and Vice President Mike Pence and the superb team they are assembling, this team will go down in history as one of the greatest presidencies in US history."

The move comes less than a month into the job, making him one of the shortest-serving senior presidential advisers in modern history.

Gen. Keith Kellogg will be the interim national security adviser, multiple sources tell CNN. He most recently served as National Security Council chief of staff.

A senior administration official said Kellogg, retired Gen. David Petraeus and former Vice Admiral Bob Harward are possible replacements for Flynn.

The sudden exit marks the most public display yet of disarray at the highest levels of the new administration, which has faced repeated questions over a slew of controversies and reports of infighting among senior aides during its first three weeks.

The shakeup now leaves Trump without one of his closest and longest-serving advisers. Flynn had counseled Trump on foreign policy and national security matters since early in the 2016 presidential race.

Flynn was not able to definitively refute a Washington Post story late last week that his conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak included communication about the sanctions. It is illegal for unauthorized private citizens to negotiate with foreign governments on behalf of the US.

The controversy intensified after the report put Vice President Mike Pence and several senior White House advisers in an uncomfortable position, as they had denied in TV interviews weeks earlier that Flynn discussed sanctions with the ambassador. Some administration officials said Flynn must have misled Pence and others.

"The knives are out," a White House official told CNN on Friday, noting that "there's a lot of unhappiness about this."

Many expressed concern at the idea that Flynn, a retired lieutenant general who headed the Defense Intelligence Agency, would discuss sanctions with a foreign official whose calls are regularly monitored by US intelligence and law enforcement agencies.

A US official confirmed to CNN on Friday that Flynn and Kislyak did speak about sanctions, among other matters, during a December call.

But after the call was made public, Pence told CBS News on January 15 that Flynn did not talk with Kislyak about the sanctions, which the Obama administration recently levied due to Russia's alleged interference in the 2016 elections.

"They did not discuss anything having to do with the United States' decision to expel diplomats or impose censure against Russia," Pence told CBS News.

On Friday, an aide close to the national security adviser told CNN that Flynn could not rule out that he spoke about sanctions on the call.

The White House official blamed much of the outcry against Flynn on a Washington culture always in search of a scalp, but people within Trump's orbit did little to defend Flynn during appearances on Sunday news shows.

Stephen Miller, White House policy director, was asked directly about Flynn's future on a number of Sunday talk shows. Miller responded by saying he was not the appropriate official to ask.

"I don't have any answers today," Miller said in response to questions about whether Flynn misled the vice president. "I don't have any information one way or another to add anything to the conversation."

CNN's Jim Acosta, Kevin Liptak and Dan Merica contributed to this report.
And his resignation letter:

Image

Good fucking riddance. I'm sure the next guy Trump tries to appoint to the post will be just as bad some way or another, but still.
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

I'm not surprised by Flynn having to fall on his own sword. While the "see the world burn" wing of the Trump White House indicated its support for him (i.e. Conway and her ilk), the wing of the White House holding Trump's leash for the GOP felt that Flynn's blatant contacts with the Russians would've been a bridge too far for the Congressional Republicans ... whom, on some days, seem perilously close to striking the "useful" from their useful orange shitgibbon as it is; in spite of voting nearly lock-step for his Cabinet choices.

And, of course, the next person the orange shitgibbon will appoint to the post will be equally horrible. He operates from a very simple set of criteria, mostly focused around whether or not the candidate looks good in a suit and how well they flatter his ego. Otherwise, it's obvious he just accepts whatever his circle of advisors put in front of him (given that it would appear that he doesn't actually read the executive orders he signs, for example.)
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by The Romulan Republic »

One down. Hopefully a whole bunch more to go.

Glad to see that the Russian scandal seems to have staying power. If anything will bring down Trump before 2020, its that.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by J »

The Romulan Republic wrote:Glad to see that the Russian scandal seems to have staying power. If anything will bring down Trump before 2020, its that.
This has nothing to do with a "Russian Scandal".
Rather, it's a violation of the Logan Act in that Flynn, at the time, wasn't authorized to conduct policy discussions with countries with which the US is involved in disputes.
Please stop and think once in a while, and quit pushing the stupid narratives.
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by Coop D'etat »

J wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Glad to see that the Russian scandal seems to have staying power. If anything will bring down Trump before 2020, its that.
This has nothing to do with a "Russian Scandal".
Rather, it's a violation of the Logan Act in that Flynn, at the time, wasn't authorized to conduct policy discussions with countries with which the US is involved in disputes.
Please stop and think once in a while, and quit pushing the stupid narratives.

It's was theoretically illegal under an interpretation of the Logan Act. Nobody in history has ever been successfully charged for a Logan act violation, there is no case law on the subject to clarify and its unclear if said act is even constitutional.

Flynn had to resign for many reasons, but its unclear if he actually broke the law by doing what he did.
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by J »

Coop D'etat wrote:It's was theoretically illegal under an interpretation of the Logan Act. Nobody in history has ever been successfully charged for a Logan act violation, there is no case law on the subject to clarify and its unclear if said act is even constitutional.
The Logan Act is rather curious, it's arguably unconstitutional yet at the same time no one really wants to test it since it's more useful to keep the law on the books. As I recall from my law studies in university, there's only been one indictment in the 200+ year history of the law and it was dropped before any further procedures or prosecution took place.
Flynn had to resign for many reasons, but its unclear if he actually broke the law by doing what he did.
There were of course other reasons for his resignation, he did however break the law. Mr. Flynn wasn't a diplomat or otherwise authorized to speak with Russian representatives regarding US policy decisions such as sanctions. This was during a time when the US and Russia were having a dispute over sanctions, military deployments, the usual things. Problem. Mr. Flynn is on the record as speaking to the Russian ambassador about sanctions, which he's explicitly barred from doing under the Logan Act.
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by Flagg »

Coop D'etat wrote:
J wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Glad to see that the Russian scandal seems to have staying power. If anything will bring down Trump before 2020, its that.
This has nothing to do with a "Russian Scandal".
Rather, it's a violation of the Logan Act in that Flynn, at the time, wasn't authorized to conduct policy discussions with countries with which the US is involved in disputes.
Please stop and think once in a while, and quit pushing the stupid narratives.

It's was theoretically illegal under an interpretation of the Logan Act. Nobody in history has ever been successfully charged for a Logan act violation, there is no case law on the subject to clarify and its unclear if said act is even constitutional.

Flynn had to resign for many reasons, but its unclear if he actually broke the law by doing what he did.
Even if he did blatantly break the Logan act, a 4/4 SCOTUS tie (or worse, a Trumpite) swings the court to the far right it won't matter. And this all assumes no Presidential pardon.
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by The Romulan Republic »

J wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Glad to see that the Russian scandal seems to have staying power. If anything will bring down Trump before 2020, its that.
This has nothing to do with a "Russian Scandal".
Rather, it's a violation of the Logan Act in that Flynn, at the time, wasn't authorized to conduct policy discussions with countries with which the US is involved in disputes.
Please stop and think once in a while, and quit pushing the stupid narratives.
It is part of a pattern of allegations concerning the Trump regime's inappropriate connections with the Russian government, which some people, quite bafflingly, still insist couldn't possibly have any truth to them whatsoever.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

J wrote: This has nothing to do with a "Russian Scandal".
Rather, it's a violation of the Logan Act in that Flynn, at the time, wasn't authorized to conduct policy discussions with countries with which the US is involved in disputes.
Please stop and think once in a while, and quit pushing the stupid narratives.
Um ... have you really not been paying attention to the news for, like, months, with constant debates and allegations about Trump, his campaign, and their connection to Russia? How on Earth could you possibly come to the conclusion that there is no connection between this incident and everything else, unless you are just outright denying that the "everything else" part exists? Otherwise I'm honestly not sure what argument you are trying to make.

And, by the way, what about this?
CNN wrote: Trump aides were in constant touch with senior Russian officials during campaign

High-level advisers close to then-presidential nominee Donald Trump were in constant communication during the campaign with Russians known to US intelligence, multiple current and former intelligence, law enforcement and administration officials tell CNN.

President-elect Trump and then-President Barack Obama were both briefed on details of the extensive communications between suspected Russian operatives and people associated with the Trump campaign and the Trump business, according to US officials familiar with the matter.

Both the frequency of the communications during early summer and the proximity to Trump of those involved "raised a red flag" with US intelligence and law enforcement, according to these officials. The communications were intercepted during routine intelligence collection targeting Russian officials and other Russian nationals known to US intelligence.

Among several senior Trump advisers regularly communicating with Russian nationals were then-campaign chairman Paul Manafort and then-adviser Michael Flynn.

<snip>
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Yeah, pretty much.

Weather any of those other allegations will result in criminal charges being proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law is of course, as yet, impossible to say.

But it can't be argued that Flynn's resignation for inappropriately conversing with Russia about US policy is part of a pattern of cozy and at the very least ethically dubious connections between the regimes of Trump and Putin.

Its also the scandal most likely to seriously damage Trump, I think (as in impeachment-level damage), in part because some Republicans (see McCain, Lindsey Graham) are still, if nothing else, actually patriots. At least enough that they won't countenance anything that appears to be selling out the US to a traditional rival.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by J »

Ziggy Stardust wrote:Um ... have you really not been paying attention to the news for, like, months, with constant debates and allegations about Trump, his campaign, and their connection to Russia?
Yes. And make that years. The Beaverton has more real news than CNN. That's a problem.
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by The Romulan Republic »

You'll get no argument from me on CNN being a steaming pile of manure passing as a media outlet, but CNN is not the only organization to report on the ties between Trump and the Russian government, and those allegations cannot be dismissed simply by attacking CNN's lack of credibility.

If you want to say that no crimes have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, fair enough. But at the same time, I don't think an unbiased person can dismiss this as just a wild-eyed conspiracy theory any longer.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

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This has nothing to do with the Logan Act, which has been on the books for centuries, has never been used to prosecute anyone, and is probably totally unconstitutional.

The ostensible reason for Flynn being fired? He exposed Pence because Pence repeated his lie (knowingly or unknowingly).

The real reason? Because he was a liability to the administration due to the current irrational Russia hysteria gripping Washington, wilfully ginned up by Trump's opponents in the Intelligence Community.

Flynn is an odious Islamohpobic warmonger- which of course The Resistance (TM) doesn't care about. So he was of course fired for the stupidest reason possible - he supposedly got on the phone with the Russian Amb. and advised they not overreact to Obama's last minute sanctions as he walked out the door.

Of course, we would know a lot more if the transcripts that these leakers have their hands on were leaked too, but I imagine the reason they're not being leaked except for selectively is so they can cause maximum damage - i.e. the impression of the leak is worse than the actual total conversation he had.

This is a case where its possible to be both glad Flynn is gone (because he's an insane Iran hawk) and worried about the consequences for US democracy for unaccountable and unelected IC who are meant to work for the administration setting out to undermine it with targeted leaks. How a thing happens is as important as the fact that it happened.
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

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Suffice to say that Trumpolini feeds rumors of ties to Russia the way Bill Clinton fed accusations of sexual misconduct. There's enough suggestive evidence that even if any given claim turns out not to be true, there will always, always be another one.
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

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Even if you don't one hundred percent believe the Russia allegations, even if you quite reasonably want to wait for further evidence before concluding that Trump and company are guilty of criminal acts, it is nonetheless far past time for any non-biased person to stop treating it as simply a conspiracy theory (or, in Vympel's words, "irrational Russia hysteria") that can be dismissed out of hand.

We know that Trump has frequently spoken in favor of Putin, and publicly spoken against NATO. Which are opinions he is entitled to hold, of course, but it helps establish where his sympathies appear to lie.

We know that Trump outright endorsed Russian hacking publicly during the election. Of course, he was joking, supposedly.

We know that individuals close to Trump had ties to and met with Russian officials. Confirmed by intelligence officials and reported by CNN (among others), as noted in this thread.

We know Flynn resigned after lying about his improper communications with Russian officials.

These are not fantasies, these are facts, unless you really want to argue that much of the mainstream media and intelligence community are engaged in a massive campaign to frame Trump- in which case, surely the burden of proof is on you to show that this is the case and not just another "alternative fact".

Automatically dismissing any allegations of inappropriate ties with Russia, regardless of evidence, is as irresponsible as taking every allegation at face value, and is ultimately doing Trump’s job of discrediting his political opponents and painting his critics as “fake news”.
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

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The Romulan Republic wrote:Even if you don't one hundred percent believe the Russia allegations, even if you quite reasonably want to wait for further evidence before concluding that Trump and company are guilty of criminal acts, it is nonetheless far past time for any non-biased person to stop treating it as simply a conspiracy theory (or, in Vympel's words, "irrational Russia hysteria") that can be dismissed out of hand.
No, its a conspiracy theory, designed for by political hacks for the consumption of partisan idiots. I see no reason to mince words.

For the avoidance of doubt, the conspiracy theory I'm speaking of is: the notion that Trump and Russia colluded to undermine Hillary's campaign.
We know that Trump has frequently spoken in favor of Putin, and publicly spoken against NATO. Which are opinions he is entitled to hold, of course, but it helps establish where his sympathies appear to lie.
The accusations against Trump re: NATO are total bullshit. He has simply made mainstream what foreign policy wonks have been talking about for years - namely, that the US pays a disproportionate amount of NATO's commitments, that other countries are not meeting theirs, and that NATO is obsolete since the Cold War and requires reform. These are not 'pro-Russian' arguments, though they were characterised as such by the Clinton campaign and wilfully swallowed by an understandably hostile national security media.
We know that Trump outright endorsed Russian hacking publicly during the election. Of course, he was joking, supposedly.
Rubbish. To quote Glenn Greenwald:
So, literally, the lead story in the New York Times today suggests, and other people have similarly suggested it, that Trump was literally putting in a request to Putin for the Russians to cyberattack the FBI, the United States government, or get Hillary Clinton’s emails. That is such unmitigated bullshit. What that was was an offhanded, trolling comment designed to make some kind of snide reference to the need to find Hillary’s emails. He wasn’t directing the Russians, in some genuine, literal way, to go on some cybermission to find Hillary’s emails. If he wanted to request the Russians to do that, why would he do it in some offhanded way in a press conference? It was a stupid, reckless comment that he made elevated into treason.
We know that individuals close to Trump had ties to and met with Russian officials. Confirmed by intelligence officials and reported by CNN (among others), as noted in this thread.
Which individuals? What Russian officials? What was said, and about what? Because Flynn's conversation with the Russian Ambassador was totally innocuous and clearly aimed at reducing tensions with Russia. If the Trump administration was at all competent, they would have simply ignored the ginned up hysteria in Washington and said "yes, Flynn did talk to Russian officials, we want to hit the ground running on improving relations."

Again - there's a reason the leakers aren't releasing the transcripts and only leaking vague details. Its not hard to figure out.
We know Flynn resigned after lying about his improper communications with Russian officials.
They weren't improper at all. Even Michael McFaul, Obama's ambassador to Russia, stated as such:

https://twitter.com/McFaul/status/831364994709151744

They were made improper because the Washington establishment has decided that even talking to Russian diplomats in a remotely conciliatory manner is treasonous, because "they hacked the election". Its utterly absurd.
These are not fantasies, these are facts, unless you really want to argue that much of the mainstream media and intelligence community are engaged in a massive campaign to frame Trump- in which case, surely the burden of proof is on you to show that this is the case and not just another "alternative fact".
There's no remotely compelling evidence whatsoever that Trump is a Russian puppet. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know anything about geopolitics or international relations. If Trump was a Russian puppet, the very last thing he would be doing is packing his administration with Iran hardliners, because a hard line stance against Iran is fundamentally incompatible with Russian interests. That's just a matter of objective fact. This isn't a case of 'framing' Trump in some sort of vast conspiracy, but a case of individuals within the IC seeking to undermine his appointees and administration generally with selective leaks of truthful, context-free information.
Automatically dismissing any allegations of inappropriate ties with Russia, regardless of evidence, is as irresponsible as taking every allegation at face value, and is ultimately doing Trump’s job of discrediting his political opponents and painting his critics as “fake news”.
There's nothing 'automatic' about my dismissal. Its based on a careful evaluation of the actual facts rather than hyperbolic insinuations about them.
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

J wrote: Yes. And make that years. The Beaverton has more real news than CNN. That's a problem.
Okay, so you're just going to willfully ignore my point to wave your hand and say "lol CNN sucks." That's a pretty classic Trump apologist move.

Honestly, it doesn't even matter how true the Russian connections are in aggregate, it's your denying that there is now a scandal around Trump's administration on the issue that's astounding. By all accounts, the White House is in utter chaos, heads are falling, and the media are talking non-stop about the issue ... I don't know how else you would define a political scandal if you don't consider this one. Even if the allegations all end up being false (which is, of course, quite possible, seeing as how no hard evidence has been presented), this would be far from the first political scandal that revolved almost entirely around lies and rumors (in fact, most political scandals are like that).
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by Kane Starkiller »

https://twitter.com/billkristol/status/ ... 4661747712
Bill Kristol wrote:Obviously strongly prefer normal democratic and constitutional politics. But if it comes to it, prefer the deep state to the Trump state.
:D
Hey remember the Voight-Kampff replicant test from Blade Runner? Here is a suggestion for a future addition to the questionnaire:
One president launches 150 Tomahawk missiles at Libya in order to smash the military of the current regime thus helping to throw the state into complete chaos. The other president bans immigration from Libya. Which president is more LIKE LITERALLY HITLER(tm).

I think this would really speed up the vetting of mindless automatons from real human beings and make things easier on Deckard and crew.
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by Simon_Jester »

Vympel wrote:
These are not fantasies, these are facts, unless you really want to argue that much of the mainstream media and intelligence community are engaged in a massive campaign to frame Trump- in which case, surely the burden of proof is on you to show that this is the case and not just another "alternative fact".
There's no remotely compelling evidence whatsoever that Trump is a Russian puppet. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know anything about geopolitics or international relations. If Trump was a Russian puppet, the very last thing he would be doing is packing his administration with Iran hardliners, because a hard line stance against Iran is fundamentally incompatible with Russian interests. That's just a matter of objective fact.
I'm going to be honest with you, the nature of American politics might make it impossible to be a Republican with ties to Russia and avoid the Iran hardliners. If, hypothetically, Trump were taking support from Russia or were predisposed to listen to Russian wishes, he might very well still put Iran hardliners in his cabinet.

A hardline stance on Iran is massively popular with the American right, such that it's going to be hard to assemble a cabinet that does not contain Iran hardliners, unless one draws people from the left.

While I'm not going to weigh in for or against the rest of your points, I think that on this particular one, lack of exposure to American politics may be affecting you just as lack of exposure to Russian politics often affects (for example) me.
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

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The Romulan Republic wrote:We know that Trump has frequently spoken in favor of Putin, and publicly spoken against NATO. Which are opinions he is entitled to hold, of course, but it helps establish where his sympathies appear to lie.
It's not just that he often speaks favorably of Putin. He seems to be almost physically incapable of doing anything but speak favorably of Putin whenever Russia comes up. His stances on various issues may be fairly innocuous taken on their own, but when he's practically parroting Kremlin talking points verbatim, surrounding himself with pro-Putin cronies, seems compelled to vocally defend Putin on every issue no matter how insignificant, but then suddenly clams up and starts claiming that he's being really tough on Putin, who he doesn't even know and has never met, whenever people start to scrutinize their relationship, it's hard not to speculate over why he's so subservient to Russian interests when he's nothing but bloviating bravado to anyone else.
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by Simon_Jester »

Kane Starkiller wrote:https://twitter.com/billkristol/status/ ... 4661747712
Bill Kristol wrote:Obviously strongly prefer normal democratic and constitutional politics. But if it comes to it, prefer the deep state to the Trump state.
:D
Hey remember the Voight-Kampff replicant test from Blade Runner? Here is a suggestion for a future addition to the questionnaire:
One president launches 150 Tomahawk missiles at Libya in order to smash the military of the current regime thus helping to throw the state into complete chaos. The other president bans immigration from Libya. Which president is more LIKE LITERALLY HITLER(tm).

I think this would really speed up the vetting of mindless automatons from real human beings and make things easier on Deckard and crew.
Context isn't king in your world, is it? For that matter, I'm not sure context is a thing at all.
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Flagg
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by Flagg »

Ziggy Stardust wrote:
J wrote: Yes. And make that years. The Beaverton has more real news than CNN. That's a problem.
Okay, so you're just going to willfully ignore my point to wave your hand and say "lol CNN sucks." That's a pretty classic Trump apologist move.

Honestly, it doesn't even matter how true the Russian connections are in aggregate, it's your denying that there is now a scandal around Trump's administration on the issue that's astounding. By all accounts, the White House is in utter chaos, heads are falling, and the media are talking non-stop about the issue ... I don't know how else you would define a political scandal if you don't consider this one. Even if the allegations all end up being false (which is, of course, quite possible, seeing as how no hard evidence has been presented), this would be far from the first political scandal that revolved almost entirely around lies and rumors (in fact, most political scandals are like that).
Posts like J's are the exact reason we have this "fake news" bullshit. Just because corporate news outlets suck (mostly because they choose what to cover, how they cover it, and would sell their firstborn for "access") doesn't mean they can be waved away as if what they report is all lies and serving an agenda. Except FOX New's commentary, which is pretty openly the propaganda wing of whatever the GlOP is now.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan

You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to
Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan

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does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
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Flagg
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by Flagg »

Civil War Man wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:We know that Trump has frequently spoken in favor of Putin, and publicly spoken against NATO. Which are opinions he is entitled to hold, of course, but it helps establish where his sympathies appear to lie.
It's not just that he often speaks favorably of Putin. He seems to be almost physically incapable of doing anything but speak favorably of Putin whenever Russia comes up. His stances on various issues may be fairly innocuous taken on their own, but when he's practically parroting Kremlin talking points verbatim, surrounding himself with pro-Putin cronies, seems compelled to vocally defend Putin on every issue no matter how insignificant, but then suddenly clams up and starts claiming that he's being really tough on Putin, who he doesn't even know and has never met, whenever people start to scrutinize their relationship, it's hard not to speculate over why he's so subservient to Russian interests when he's nothing but bloviating bravado to anyone else.
Didn't President Pussygrabber at one point not even know that his Bromance partner had launched a war of aggression against Ukrain and annexed Crimea?
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan

You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to
Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan

He who can,
does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
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aerius
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Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by aerius »

Flagg wrote:Posts like J's are the exact reason we have this "fake news" bullshit. Just because corporate news outlets suck (mostly because they choose what to cover, how they cover it, and would sell their firstborn for "access") doesn't mean they can be waved away as if what they report is all lies and serving an agenda. Except FOX New's commentary, which is pretty openly the propaganda wing of whatever the GlOP is now.
The biggest problem is that even if you do follow the news and you do have some general background knowledge of the events in question, it takes way too much fucking effort to sort through and verify the facts to separate them from the bullshit. You're essentially asking the reader to be his own investigative journalist for every single fucking subject, and between jobs, families, and all the other shit that needs to get done, few people will have the time, motivation, and resources available to do all the background digging. So you end up with a set of "trusted" sources where you take their stories at face value unless you notice something blatantly wrong, and a set of "fake new" sources where you just shitcan everything on sight. Either that or you go fuck it and boycott the media entirely.
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aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me. :)
Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either. :P
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Flagg
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Location: Hell. In The Room Right Next to Reagan. He's Fucking Bonzo. No, wait... Bonzo's fucking HIM.

Re: Michael Flynn has resigned

Post by Flagg »

aerius wrote:
Flagg wrote:Posts like J's are the exact reason we have this "fake news" bullshit. Just because corporate news outlets suck (mostly because they choose what to cover, how they cover it, and would sell their firstborn for "access") doesn't mean they can be waved away as if what they report is all lies and serving an agenda. Except FOX New's commentary, which is pretty openly the propaganda wing of whatever the GlOP is now.
The biggest problem is that even if you do follow the news and you do have some general background knowledge of the events in question, it takes way too much fucking effort to sort through and verify the facts to separate them from the bullshit. You're essentially asking the reader to be his own investigative journalist for every single fucking subject, and between jobs, families, and all the other shit that needs to get done, few people will have the time, motivation, and resources available to do all the background digging. So you end up with a set of "trusted" sources where you take their stories at face value unless you notice something blatantly wrong, and a set of "fake new" sources where you just shitcan everything on sight. Either that or you go fuck it and boycott the media entirely.
Or you go to 3 different sites (assuming it's not an AP story, in which case flip a coin) and read the same articles about the same story and form your own opinion. If you can't be bothered to spend a whole 10 minutes doing that, then put on a tinfoil hat and hide in the closet.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan

You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to
Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan

He who can,
does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
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