Senator Warren Shut Down for Reading Coretta Scott King Letter

[Broomstick]

Senator Warren was formally shut down for daring to read a letter written by Coretta Scott King regarding Jeff Sessions' appointment as Attorney General.

See here, from CNN

From the BBC.

This administration is not 100 days old and it's already riding down the rails towards a very unpleasant destination. I wish I was able to actually do something but these days all my energies are going towards keeping my husband in cancer treatment and trying to hang onto my job.

Basically, she got shut down for saying a Trump nominee wasn't fit for the office he was nominated for. This is not democracy. This is criminalizing anything other than supporting the Chief Autocrat.

[mr friendly guy]

Expect anti SJWs who make poetry about free speech to condemn this in the strongest possible terms in 3,2,.........wait where's 1?

[Flagg]

Expect anti SJWs who make poetry about free speech to condemn this in the strongest possible terms in 3,2,.........wait where's 1?

Misogynists only care about their own free speech, they love it when people they hate get shut down.

[moglwi]

She has free speach rights but I belive she broke the rules of the senate which what she was shut down for

[Flagg]

She has free speach rights but I belive she broke the rules of the senate which what she was shut down for

Yeah. She broke an obscure rule that could (and should) have not been enforced. This is just Bitch McCuntal playing power games. I hope Warren is majority leader in 2019.

[Dragon Angel]

She has free speach rights but I belive she broke the rules of the senate which what she was shut down for

Under the BBC article:

What is this rule?
Under Rule 19, members of the Senate are not allowed to "directly or indirectly, by any form of words impute to another Senator or to other Senators any conduct or motive unworthy or unbecoming a Senator".
Ms Warren denied breaching it, saying: "I am surprised that the words of Coretta Scott King are not suitable for debate in the United States Senate. I ask leave of the Senate to continue my remarks."
However, the Republicans disagreed, and voted to silence her.

As this is a vote to confirm Jeff Sessions, who happens to be a Senator also and a Republican, this represents a grave conflict of interest for the Senate Republicans to silence Warren. They are abusing a rule to silence her dissent using the flimsy justification of painting criticism of Sessions as against the rules. Under these conditions, the only statements that could be read against Sessions on the floor would be forced to positive ones, not anything negative. It's flat out obvious how this rule is being applied.

[Khaat]

Wow, (Internet) Rule 19 for (Senate) Rule 19: "The more you hate it, the stronger it gets."

So, in execution, a popular Senator could dismiss any impeachment proceedings by claiming Rule 19 and having his supporters/collaborators in the Senate throw it out, rather than vote against the impeachment directly (which would be far more news-worthy.) Good to know they read this as an ad hominem attack, rather than testimony/heresay of Sessions' actual history and qualification for the position. No Republican Senator need fear impeachment.

In case you're interested:
http://www.rules.senate.gov/public/inde ... SenateHome

Rule 31 should (well, it may have) been exercised with the DeVos Purchase.

[Joun_Lord]

That is a stupid rule. If you do conduct unbecoming of being a Senator then you should be able to be called out on it. I'm no fan of Warren but I do believe she was in the right to read Ms King's letter and Turtle McTurtleface was in the wrong.

However I really don't think this is a free speech thing. In certain settings there are some limits on ones right to free speech. There are rules of conduct for politics and some will limit free speech and like massively swollen hands in an all you can hold candy store it can be both a good and bad thing. This is one of those times its a bad thing, the rule is just stupid as fuck.

Hopefully Warren being told to shut up gets more Dems and any remaining moderate Republicans (are there even any left in the Senate?) to quit playing dead and roll over off their backs and fight back. Shitbags like Sessions, DeVos and more should never ever have any government positions anymore then I should (though I'd like to think I'd be a bit of a altruistic dictator, sure I'd do some crazy shit like force Virginia to change their name to Knockoff Virginia, change the name of diarrhea to Chuck Norris and definitely have any politician be forced to use or participate in anything they pass like welfare, medicare, and wars while freezing all their accounts while in office so they have to survive on minimum wage but I'd also be pretty open on individual rights and fixing the environment even if my plan is to build factories on Mars where greenhouse gases might do good).

[Tribble]

Remember that from the Republican standpoint the Democrat Party and everything it does is illegitimate. A Democrat criticising the Republican Party is a clear breach of Rule 19 as far as Republicans are concerned.

As myself and other have stated before this is a literal war against Democrats, just with less bloodshed (for the moment anyways).

[Khaat]

Update:

After Sen. Elizabeth Warren was silenced when she tried to read from a letter written by Martin Luther King’s widow about Sen. Jeff Sessions, her Democratic colleagues took up the effort to continue expressing their opposition to President Trump’s attorney general nominee Jeff Sessions.

Sen. Tom Udall of New Mexico, Sen. Sherrod Brown of Ohio, and Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont all spoke up Wednesday and read from the three-decade old letter of Coretta Scott King, which she had written to protest Sessions’ 1986 nomination to be a federal judge.

In it, King had argued that as a federal prosecutor, Sessions had used his power to “chill the free exercise of the vote by black citizens.”

You can read the full letter here.

The tag-team effort came after Warren had been forced was forced into silence Tuesday when she attempted to read from the letter. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky had invoked an arcane parliamentary rule that stops senators from impugning colleagues.

After he quoted the letter, Udall made a case against using the rule.

“I fully understand the importance of rule 19 in civility,” he said. “I try in my activity here on the senate floor to be as civil as possible, but i think there’s a bigger issue here.”

In an interview with CBSN Wednesday, Udall also slammed the “selective enforcement” of the rule against Warren.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/elizabeth-w ... olleagues/
Unless you believe the Corporate Raider In Chief and believe this is all made-up....

[Dragon Angel]

Unless you believe the Corporate Raider In Chief and believe this is all made-up....

2+2=5. We have always been at war with Eastasia. Get back in line with the Party, citizen.

[The Romulan Republic]

Warren should sue McConnel for violating her First Amendment rights. The First Amendment prohibits government censorship of peoples' speech, and no rule for the sake of Senate niceties should trump that.

[Khaat]

Warren should sue McConnel for violating her First Amendment rights. The First Amendment prohibits government censorship of peoples' speech, and no rule for the sake of Senate niceties should trump that.

And the Senators who have taken money from DeVos should have recused themselves from the vote for her confirmation. Now where would you like the candy-cane trees and unicorns?

[Flagg]

Warren should sue McConnel for violating her First Amendment rights. The First Amendment prohibits government censorship of peoples' speech, and no rule for the sake of Senate niceties should trump that.

She can say whatever she wants, anywhere except in the Senate. The censorship is making this an actual story as opposed to something that would have been ignored. Bitch McCuntal did her a favor.

[The Romulan Republic]

Warren should sue McConnel for violating her First Amendment rights. The First Amendment prohibits government censorship of peoples' speech, and no rule for the sake of Senate niceties should trump that.

And the Senators who have taken money from DeVos should have recused themselves from the vote for her confirmation. Now where would you like the candy-cane trees and unicorns?

I never said it was likely. I said it was what she should do (and in my admittedly non-lawyer opinion, I think she'd have a case).

Now do you actually have any objection to what I said to go with your cheap shot?

[Khaat]

Now do you actually have any objection to what I said to go with your cheap shot?

Not a cheap shot, just another example of where reality deviates from "should be". With candy-cane trees and unicorns as frosting.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

That is a stupid rule. If you do conduct unbecoming of being a Senator then you should be able to be called out on it. I'm no fan of Warren but I do believe she was in the right to read Ms King's letter and Turtle McTurtleface was in the wrong.

However I really don't think this is a free speech thing. In certain settings there are some limits on ones right to free speech. There are rules of conduct for politics and some will limit free speech and like massively swollen hands in an all you can hold candy store it can be both a good and bad thing. This is one of those times its a bad thing, the rule is just stupid as fuck.

Hopefully Warren being told to shut up gets more Dems and any remaining moderate Republicans (are there even any left in the Senate?) to quit playing dead and roll over off their backs and fight back. Shitbags like Sessions, DeVos and more should never ever have any government positions anymore then I should (though I'd like to think I'd be a bit of a altruistic dictator, sure I'd do some crazy shit like force Virginia to change their name to Knockoff Virginia, change the name of diarrhea to Chuck Norris and definitely have any politician be forced to use or participate in anything they pass like welfare, medicare, and wars while freezing all their accounts while in office so they have to survive on minimum wage but I'd also be pretty open on individual rights and fixing the environment even if my plan is to build factories on Mars where greenhouse gases might do good).

The Donor Democrats will never fight back. They're paid to lose by the same corrupt system that pays Republicans to win. Some of them cynically take the money and talk a good game about progressive principles, others are just spineless and don't realize that they were chosen for that trait, but the end result is a party that bends over and grabs its ankles every time the Republicans clear their throat. They never fight dirty themselves, and they don't even complain when the GOP does or attempt to punish them in any way, not even in the court of public opinion. Luckily Trump's victory has galvanized progressives who have had enough of the GOP-lite and are going to primary the shit out of every corporate Democrat who comes up for re-election. The ones who remain will fall in line and kow-tow to strong progressives instead of Republicans. It's all they're good for.

[Flagg]

Honestly, no one should be upset on political grounds for this, a non-issue is now headline news on a Wednesday. From a moral standpoint it's outrageous. But the conservative coalition in the Senate shot themselves in the foot with a grenade launcher.

[Joun_Lord]

The Donor Democrats will never fight back. They're paid to lose by the same corrupt system that pays Republicans to win. Some of them cynically take the money and talk a good game about progressive principles, others are just spineless and don't realize that they were chosen for that trait, but the end result is a party that bends over and grabs its ankles every time the Republicans clear their throat. They never fight dirty themselves, and they don't even complain when the GOP does or attempt to punish them in any way, not even in the court of public opinion. Luckily Trump's victory has galvanized progressives who have had enough of the GOP-lite and are going to primary the shit out of every corporate Democrat who comes up for re-election. The ones who remain will fall in line and kow-tow to strong progressives instead of Republicans. It's all they're good for.

You know, I'd love to think that actual progressives will finally realize the Dems are no longer the party for them after the recent election that handed it to Trump by shitting on middle America, that did everything in its power to stop Sanders, that practiced cronyism and underhanded tactics to the point atleast some were wondering if they'd just be getting Trump lite if Clinton was elected, and just forced Clinton on the party even though her support not counting her people was lacking. Shit like that should clue people in that the Democratic party is just as dysfunctional as the Republican, perhaps more so, and its not going to change without some action. However I don't think there is enough outrage to change anything, I don't think there is enough people with a will to change anything, and I know that there isn't enough powerful people wanting change.

Trump's victory gave Democrats and liberals an external enemy to concentrate on while allowing them to completely ignore their own problems. They can point to Trump and say he's the problem, which to be fair he partially is, but not realize or just not care about their own problems that allowed that fucking pussy grabbing piece of fecal matter to so beat the ever loving fuck out of them like he was my stepfather.

I do hope the Bernie supporters, the people that rightfully saw Clinton was not the right candidate, the people worried about the state of the Democratic party, and the DINO I guess progressive former Republicans who jumped ship when their former party went all completely fundie moron will try something other then present their hindquarters to show submission. I also hoped that the trump Presidency wouldn't be a complete clusterfuck but just going by his cabinet picks alone I can honestly say that hope died like my last TV after I put a hammer through it.

[Simon_Jester]

That is a stupid rule. If you do conduct unbecoming of being a Senator then you should be able to be called out on it. I'm no fan of Warren but I do believe she was in the right to read Ms King's letter and Turtle McTurtleface was in the wrong.

However I really don't think this is a free speech thing. In certain settings there are some limits on ones right to free speech. There are rules of conduct for politics and some will limit free speech and like massively swollen hands in an all you can hold candy store it can be both a good and bad thing. This is one of those times its a bad thing, the rule is just stupid as fuck.

You're right. Thing is, the worst part isn't just the existence of the stupid rule, the worst part is the existence of a political faction willing to use obscure and stupid rules. In an attempt to completely defeat the purpose of even bothering to do something the Senate is required to do according to the Constitution.

This is the kind of thing that makes Democrats worry about tyranny. Because this is not normal behavior for either party, when senators get nominated for things. Declaring that you can't criticize a senator from the majority party, because it's against the rules to say bad things about senators? Really?

Hopefully Warren being told to shut up gets more Dems and any remaining moderate Republicans (are there even any left in the Senate?) to quit playing dead and roll over off their backs and fight back.

Thaaat would be good...

Shitbags like Sessions, DeVos and more should never ever have any government positions anymore then I should (though I'd like to think I'd be a bit of a altruistic dictator, sure I'd do some crazy shit like force Virginia to change their name to Knockoff Virginia, change the name of diarrhea to Chuck Norris and definitely have any politician be forced to use or participate in anything they pass like welfare, medicare, and wars while freezing all their accounts while in office so they have to survive on minimum wage but I'd also be pretty open on individual rights and fixing the environment even if my plan is to build factories on Mars where greenhouse gases might do good).

See, that would be insane and goofy, but at least you wouldn't be using all these powers for blatant personal self-aggrandizement and saying "RULE 19 SAYS SHUT UP YOU" to anyone who tries to call you on it.

[Joun_Lord]

You're right. Thing is, the worst part isn't just the existence of the stupid rule, the worst part is the existence of a political faction willing to use obscure and stupid rules. In an attempt to completely defeat the purpose of even bothering to do something the Senate is required to do according to the Constitution.

This is the kind of thing that makes Democrats worry about tyranny. Because this is not normal behavior for either party, when senators get nominated for things. Declaring that you can't criticize a senator from the majority party, because it's against the rules to say bad things about senators? Really?

I understand the point of the rule and why it was put into place, after some Senators had some insult argument like they were in a ye old internet message board then got into a fist fight, but I still think its stupid. I could even see a rule in place disallowing personal attacks like stopping them from calling each other poo poo heads and shite. But just preventing Senators from saying bad shit about each other is stupid as frack.

I can't even say "but the other side!!!!" in this case. While I have little respect for the Dems the fact they didn't pull shit like this when they had a majority (that I'm aware of atleast, a quick google search turned up nothing so I'm going to say with almost certainty they haven't censored any opposition on the Senate floor) shows that they have the high ground in this.

Its stupid the Republicans would even shut up Warren. Her little speech isn't going to stop Sessions anymore then a tonka truck would stop a main battle tank, they have an overwhelming majority. Her reading of Ms King's letter was a political stunt pure and simple and would have been forgotten by next week if the Republicans hadn't stopped it.

Thaaat would be good...

Wouldn't it though. Some other things that would be good include world peace, more DLC for Fallout 4 and this time some that doesn't suck balls, and Trump and Pence and pretty much everyone except Mattis to realize being in charge is hard and step down. Like the Democrats growing some stones all of that is unlikely to happen. Well except Mattis getting to be in charge, I'm sure he's already got several plans to kill everyone in the chain of command ahead of him and several more plans to get them to step down through psychological warfare that probably involves some form of torture using Battlefield Earth.

See, that would be insane and goofy, but at least you wouldn't be using all these powers for blatant personal self-aggrandizement and saying "RULE 19 SAYS SHUT UP YOU" to anyone who tries to call you on it.

As a megalomaniac dictator I'd be fine with people saying shit about me. I'm in charge, I'm having monuments erected in my honor with emphasis on the erection part because I believe that if you are going to build a penis compensating monument you may as well not try to hide what it is and just make a giant dick, nobody is going to mistake it for some Freemason symbol or something, its just a dick. How would it effect me for some person to say something insulting? Anything they say I can retort "I'm in charge, I'm the Duke of New York, I'm A number one, I'm the big cheese who can cut the cheese without anyone saying anything, you have just words."

Takes some really insecure people to not even like people saying bad things about them despite having all the power and money and having your enemies reduced to only words. Which is my biggest worry about the Trump presidency, he and all those insecure fucks trying to compensate for their inadequacies or neurosis and doing more and more shit like this to keep people from saying bad shit aboot them.

[The Romulan Republic]

The Donor Democrats will never fight back. They're paid to lose by the same corrupt system that pays Republicans to win. Some of them cynically take the money and talk a good game about progressive principles, others are just spineless and don't realize that they were chosen for that trait, but the end result is a party that bends over and grabs its ankles every time the Republicans clear their throat. They never fight dirty themselves, and they don't even complain when the GOP does or attempt to punish them in any way, not even in the court of public opinion. Luckily Trump's victory has galvanized progressives who have had enough of the GOP-lite and are going to primary the shit out of every corporate Democrat who comes up for re-election. The ones who remain will fall in line and kow-tow to strong progressives instead of Republicans. It's all they're good for.

You know, I'd love to think that actual progressives will finally realize the Dems are no longer the party for them after the recent election that handed it to Trump by shitting on middle America, that did everything in its power to stop Sanders, that practiced cronyism and underhanded tactics to the point atleast some were wondering if they'd just be getting Trump lite if Clinton was elected, and just forced Clinton on the party even though her support not counting her people was lacking. Shit like that should clue people in that the Democratic party is just as dysfunctional as the Republican, perhaps more so, and its not going to change without some action. However I don't think there is enough outrage to change anything, I don't think there is enough people with a will to change anything, and I know that there isn't enough powerful people wanting change.

Trump's victory gave Democrats and liberals an external enemy to concentrate on while allowing them to completely ignore their own problems. They can point to Trump and say he's the problem, which to be fair he partially is, but not realize or just not care about their own problems that allowed that fucking pussy grabbing piece of fecal matter to so beat the ever loving fuck out of them like he was my stepfather.

I do hope the Bernie supporters, the people that rightfully saw Clinton was not the right candidate, the people worried about the state of the Democratic party, and the DINO I guess progressive former Republicans who jumped ship when their former party went all completely fundie moron will try something other then present their hindquarters to show submission. I also hoped that the trump Presidency wouldn't be a complete clusterfuck but just going by his cabinet picks alone I can honestly say that hope died like my last TV after I put a hammer through it.

Talk like this is almost as dangerous as people saying we should try to compromise with Trump.

Progressives trying to form a third party will not be able to replace the Democrats in two to four years. Nor are they all likely to go to the same alternative party (some will try starting a new party, some will go Green). The sad truth is that this is an excellent strategy if your goal is to ensure a Republican supermajority in both houses of Congress in 2018, a second Trump term in 2020, and a one-party state in America for the foreseeable future.

For all the Democratic Party's flaws, it is still the strongest body of opposition to the Republicans in America. Tear it apart, and you might as well not even bother running against the Republicans. The stakes are too damn high to keep chasing the third party dream- 2016 should also have taught the folly of continuing to do so given what we're facing.

Nor is it a foregone conclusion that the centrist compromisers will continue to dominate the Democratic Party. Their credibility took a huge hit with Clinton's loss, and quite frankly, the biggest name in the Democratic Party today is probably Bernie Sanders. Now is not the time to call it quits and form a protest party so we can pat ourselves on the back for our purity while America becomes a dictatorship.

Now is the time to push the progressive message in the Democratic Party, because however long a shot that seems, I guarantee you that its not as long a shot as a viable third party in two to four years.

A big indicator of which way the wind is blowing will be who the new DNC chair is. Keep an eye on that, and on primary results in the mid-terms.

Edit: Also, "The Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans", and variations on that theme, was idiotic before this last election, and it is bordering on criminal stupidity now. It has no basis in fact, as the shear deluge of bigoted, authoritarian vileness and utter incompetence in Trump's first few weeks should have shown. It is a vapid generality based on cynicism and false equivalency, masquerading as political wisdom, and its only purpose (other than to make the speaker feel smarter than all the "sheeple") is to normalize what Trump and the Republican Party are doing, and to normalize political corruption in general, while dividing the opposition by encouraging people to scatter to various "third party" options.

Put simply, it is one of the greatest political lies of our time.

[The Romulan Republic]

You want a viable third party option?

Okay- then it has to be something that can pull in a substantial percentage, probably a majority, of the existing Democratic Party support (in which case, why not just make a bid for Democratic Party leadership?), and also pull in any disaffected Republicans as well as third party support (or get a lot of people who don't usually vote to turn out).

If its just pulling progressives, then its going to lose hard.

[Joun_Lord]

Talk like this is almost as dangerous as people saying we should try to compromise with Trump.

Progressives trying to form a third party will not be able to replace the Democrats in two to four years. Nor are they all likely to go to the same alternative party (some will try starting a new party, some will go Green). The sad truth is that this is an excellent strategy if your goal is to ensure a Republican supermajority in both houses of Congress in 2018, a second Trump term in 2020, and a one-party state in America for the foreseeable future.

For all the Democratic Party's flaws, it is still the strongest body of opposition to the Republicans in America. Tear it apart, and you might as well not even bother running against the Republicans. The stakes are too damn high to keep chasing the third party dream- 2016 should also have taught the folly of continuing to do so given what we're facing.

Nor is it a foregone conclusion that the centrist compromisers will continue to dominate the Democratic Party. Their credibility took a huge hit with Clinton's loss, and quite frankly, the biggest name in the Democratic Party today is probably Bernie Sanders. Now is not the time to call it quits and form a protest party so we can pat ourselves on the back for our purity while America becomes a dictatorship.

Now is the time to push the progressive message in the Democratic Party, because however long a shot that seems, I guarantee you that its not as long a shot as a viable third party in two to four years.

A big indicator of which way the wind is blowing will be who the new DNC chair is. Keep an eye on that, and on primary results in the mid-terms.

Edit: Also, "The Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans", and variations on that theme, was idiotic before this last election, and it is bordering on criminal stupidity now. It has no basis in fact, as the shear deluge of bigoted, authoritarian vileness and utter incompetence in Trump's first few weeks should have shown. It is a vapid generality based on cynicism and false equivalency, masquerading as political wisdom, and its only purpose (other than to make the speaker feel smarter than all the "sheeple") is to normalize what Trump and the Republican Party are doing, and to normalize political corruption in general, while dividing the opposition by encouraging people to scatter to various "third party" options.

Put simply, it is one of the greatest political lies of our time.

I'm not saying they should start their own party. I've ranted enough about the shittyiness of our two party system and the fact that any other parties are at best ineffectual but more likely to be ineffectual and crazy.

I want the fed up people in the Democratic party to take back the party from the shitbags who ruined it like they brought non-alcoholic bear. Of course I want the same thing to happen to the Republican party too, for the fed up people of that party to quit letting the fundies, the wackos, the libertarians, and the racists run the joint.

I want the progressive message pushed, I want to the party to stop being the party of Clinton and become something that is capable of being a counterweight for the Republican party (in both good and ill) but for the more immediate future to defang Trump.

Also, no the Democrats are not just as bad as the Republicans but mostly because the Dems didn't directly elect Trump. But that doesn't mean they are blameless or better.

I know, unpopular opinion, but the Democratic party was in many ways just as bad as the Republicans but in many ways they were Republican lite. Look at like Clinton, with the exception of some hot button issues like LGBT, abortion, and guns she was not much different from Republicans, the same love of big government, cronyism, accountability, Wall Street, and foreign policy. Obama was decried for continuing and even expanding many of the same Bush era programs like drone warfare, Mexican gun running, domestic spying, and fucking around with foreign governments.

Nah they ain't bigoted, except for the time the Dems wanted to use Sander's religion to attack him, but they have shades of authoritarianism in their rule with secret no fly terrorist watch lists and trying to deny rights to people without trial in violation of the innocent until proven guilty fairytail. Are certainly incompetent unless I'm mis-remembering them losing to a massively unpopular shitbag because they couldn't appeal to scared white people who have usually been their biggest supporters.

I'm not trying to sound like a dick dude but you are deluded if you think the current incarnation of the Democratic Party is much better then the Republican party. Hence why I'm saying it needs reformed. People wouldn't be able to say they are Republican-lite without atleast some evidence to back it up, where there is smoke there is fire and right now the Democratic party looks like some pyromaniacs wet (or I guess fiery) dream.

[The Romulan Republic]

Apologies if I misunderstood you.

However, it seems like you are trying to say, effectively, that the Democrats aren't as bad and are as bad at the same time.

In a perfect world, I'd like a new party, but as things stand... well, we're much better off trying to capitalize on the tiny silver lining in the outcome of 2016 (the discrediting of the Democratic centrist establishment) to push progressive leadership of the Democratic Party.

Also, I would point out that "People wouldn't be able to say they are Republican-lite without at least some evidence to back it up", etc., is basically an appeal to popularity fallacy, and that their are a great many absolutely preposterous things believed by literally millions of people with no real evidence. Things like "Obama is a secret Muslim from Kenya", for example, or "Donald Trump will help American workers".