Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

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Ralin
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Ralin » 2019-01-13 11:58pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-01-13 11:31pm
Regardless, this request was significantly more specific than you made it out to be.
Article: Last year the Trump administration asked Pentagon for a war plan to use if they decided to attack Iran. This is shocking.
Me: I'm not surprised the Trump administration asked the Pentagon for a war plan. That's what they do. How is this shocking? It doesn't even seem to have been Trump who ordered it.

What...part of this do you consider vague?

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-01-14 06:21pm

On CNN now: Dems discussing subpoenaing Trump's interpreter at the Putin meetings, after revelations that Trump confiscated the interpreter's notes and forbad him to talk about what was discussed, even to other high ranking members of the administration. They may also subpoena Rex Tillerson, who was present at one of the meetings.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zxT8CM8XntA

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by SCRawl » 2019-01-14 09:27pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-01-14 06:21pm
On CNN now: Dems discussing subpoenaing Trump's interpreter at the Putin meetings, after revelations that Trump confiscated the interpreter's notes and forbad him to talk about what was discussed, even to other high ranking members of the administration. They may also subpoena Rex Tillerson, who was present at one of the meetings.
Couldn't President Trump simply assert executive privilege? I mean, assuming there wasn't some sort of criminal conspiracy, isn't this sort of thing what it's for?
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2019-01-15 02:27am

He will certainly try.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Civil War Man » 2019-01-15 11:13am

SCRawl wrote:
2019-01-14 09:27pm
Couldn't President Trump simply assert executive privilege? I mean, assuming there wasn't some sort of criminal conspiracy, isn't this sort of thing what it's for?
IANAL, but the analysis I've heard is that asserting executive privilege would fall flat because a third party (Putin and his entourage) was present at the meetings.

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-01-15 03:18pm

Civil War Man wrote:
2019-01-15 11:13am
SCRawl wrote:
2019-01-14 09:27pm
Couldn't President Trump simply assert executive privilege? I mean, assuming there wasn't some sort of criminal conspiracy, isn't this sort of thing what it's for?
IANAL, but the analysis I've heard is that asserting executive privilege would fall flat because a third party (Putin and his entourage) was present at the meetings.
Ultimately, I suppose, that's something for the Supreme Court to decide. If I had to guess, I'd say it would be 5/4 against in the current court, with Justice Roberts choosing to maintain the current balance rather than sanction a major expansion of executive power, while if RBG is gone and Trump gets another Justice in, it would be 5/4 in his favour.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zxT8CM8XntA

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-02-18 08:35pm

McCabe: Trump refused to believe reports from his intelligence organizations that NK had conducted a missile test, because Putin had told him NK didn't have that capability:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2019/02/1 ... -intel.cnn
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zxT8CM8XntA

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-02-27 09:29pm

So Trump met Kim Jong Un again today. But thanks to Cohen, Trump's borderline-treasonous bid to win a Nobel Prize diplomacy received virtually no news coverage. :D
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zxT8CM8XntA

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Lost Soal » 2019-02-28 02:19am

Its receiving plenty of coverage now.....

..that the talks have collapsed.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-02-28 02:25am

Guess Trump didn't suck Dear Leader's dick hard enough (or vice versa).

I just hope he doesn't use this as a pretext for some more saber rattling to distract from Mueller and Cohen. I can just see him thinking "They'll never impeach a war time President."
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zxT8CM8XntA

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Gandalf » 2019-02-28 05:54am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-02-27 09:29pm
So Trump met Kim Jong Un again today. But thanks to Cohen, Trump's borderline-treasonous bid to win a Nobel Prize diplomacy received virtually no news coverage. :D
Borderline treasonous?
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-02-28 05:59am

Gandalf wrote:
2019-02-28 05:54am
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-02-27 09:29pm
So Trump met Kim Jong Un again today. But thanks to Cohen, Trump's borderline-treasonous bid to win a Nobel Prize diplomacy received virtually no news coverage. :D
Borderline treasonous?
Remember the last time he met Fat Kim, when he made major concessions to, praised, and reiterated the propaganda of a country the US is still technically at war with for almost nothing in return?

The US Constitution defines treason as levying war against the United States, or offering aid and comfort to its enemies.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zxT8CM8XntA

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Gandalf » 2019-02-28 07:24am

Still at war with? The US hasn't been at war since the forties. If you want to play the technicalities game, be better at it, because that's a really important term.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by houser2112 » 2019-02-28 08:04am

Technically, I suppose the US is not at war with DPRK, since Congress never declared war. The Korean War was a "military engagement authorized by a United Nations Security Council Resolution and funded by Congress", but that's really splitting hairs.

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Broomstick » 2019-02-28 09:07am

Which is why everyone calls that "extended military engagement that was authorized by United Nations Security Council Resolution and funded by appropriations from Congress" the Korean War - it's much less of mouthful, and it's splitting hairs to say it wasn't really a war.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by K. A. Pital » 2019-02-28 09:23am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-02-28 05:59am
Gandalf wrote:
2019-02-28 05:54am
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-02-27 09:29pm
So Trump met Kim Jong Un again today. But thanks to Cohen, Trump's borderline-treasonous bid to win a Nobel Prize diplomacy received virtually no news coverage. :D
Borderline treasonous?
Remember the last time he met Fat Kim, when he made major concessions to, praised, and reiterated the propaganda of a country the US is still technically at war with for almost nothing in return?

The US Constitution defines treason as levying war against the United States, or offering aid and comfort to its enemies.
So wait, Trump was bad for backing off a course that leads to a potential nuclear war and millions of dead people in Korea?

WHAT?

There are millions of bad things to say about Trump. But is this really the angle you want to push?
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Broomstick » 2019-02-28 09:47am

TRR does tend to strangle the good because it's not the perfect he wants.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Ralin » 2019-02-28 10:05am

K. A. Pital wrote:
2019-02-28 09:23am
So wait, Trump was bad for backing off a course that leads to a potential nuclear war and millions of dead people in Korea?

WHAT?

There are millions of bad things to say about Trump. But is this really the angle you want to push?
You have to understand Stas, if we let the Kim dynasty get its fat fingers on a legitimacy stockpile they'll be able to put it in their missiles and a few years down the line they'll be a hundred times more dangerous.

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Ace Pace » 2019-02-28 11:53am

K. A. Pital wrote:
2019-02-28 09:23am
So wait, Trump was bad for backing off a course that leads to a potential nuclear war and millions of dead people in Korea?

WHAT?

There are millions of bad things to say about Trump. But is this really the angle you want to push?

The course that was mostly generated and hyped by Trump?
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by K. A. Pital » 2019-02-28 01:10pm

Ace Pace wrote:
2019-02-28 11:53am
The course that was mostly generated and hyped by Trump?
True. But he is not being criticised for that, he is criticised for backing down. Baffling.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Gandalf » 2019-02-28 03:59pm

houser2112 wrote:
2019-02-28 08:04am
Technically, I suppose the US is not at war with DPRK, since Congress never declared war. The Korean War was a "military engagement authorized by a United Nations Security Council Resolution and funded by Congress", but that's really splitting hairs.
Yeah, but if you want to go down the road of calling "US forces engage with people a lot" a war, then US governmental engagement with its domestic populace really raises some questions given (among other issues) the rates at which minorities are shot by police.

Also, consider the exhorbitant powers of the US government in wartime. I wonder what Kent State wpuld have looked like under proper wartime powers?
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
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Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by houser2112 » 2019-02-28 04:32pm

We're talking about foreign wars; why are you bringing up minorities being shot by police and Kent State, neither of which involved US forces (domestic police forces and the Ohio National Guard, respectively)? While domestic police forces and the Ohio NG are obviously American, they are not "US forces", which any American would interpret to mean the federal armed services.

Anyway, slippery slope much? While the war/not-war line could be debated to be on the near side of "Korea, 1950" if one was willing to not split hairs, I don't think anyone would say it's all the down to "Kent State, 1970".

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Broomstick » 2019-02-28 06:16pm

Gandalf wrote:
2019-02-28 03:59pm
houser2112 wrote:
2019-02-28 08:04am
Technically, I suppose the US is not at war with DPRK, since Congress never declared war. The Korean War was a "military engagement authorized by a United Nations Security Council Resolution and funded by Congress", but that's really splitting hairs.
Yeah, but if you want to go down the road of calling "US forces engage with people a lot" a war, then US governmental engagement with its domestic populace really raises some questions given (among other issues) the rates at which minorities are shot by police.
I'm perfectly OK with difficult questions being asked. The problem is that Congress does not seem to be comfortable with that. Among other groups.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Gandalf » 2019-02-28 11:52pm

houser2112 wrote:
2019-02-28 04:32pm
We're talking about foreign wars; why are you bringing up minorities being shot by police and Kent State, neither of which involved US forces (domestic police forces and the Ohio National Guard, respectively)? While domestic police forces and the Ohio NG are obviously American, they are not "US forces", which any American would interpret to mean the federal armed services.

Anyway, slippery slope much? While the war/not-war line could be debated to be on the near side of "Korea, 1950" if one was willing to not split hairs, I don't think anyone would say it's all the down to "Kent State, 1970".
Foreign wars have domestic consequences. Ask the citizens of Japanese ancestry interred during WW2, or people charged under the Sedition Act during WW1.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-03-01 01:10am

K. A. Pital wrote:
2019-02-28 09:23am
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-02-28 05:59am
Gandalf wrote:
2019-02-28 05:54am


Borderline treasonous?
Remember the last time he met Fat Kim, when he made major concessions to, praised, and reiterated the propaganda of a country the US is still technically at war with for almost nothing in return?

The US Constitution defines treason as levying war against the United States, or offering aid and comfort to its enemies.
So wait, Trump was bad for backing off a course that leads to a potential nuclear war and millions of dead people in Korea?

WHAT?

There are millions of bad things to say about Trump. But is this really the angle you want to push?
That is a ridiculous and downright offensive strawman. Especially since I think you know quite well that I do not and will never support any course that is likely to lead to a nuclear war.

Has it ever occurred to you that there are options besides "go to war with North Korea" and "Publicly kiss Kim Jong Un's ass while selling the US and its allies' interests for little or nothing of substance in return?" In short, has it occurred to you that there is a difference between "negotiation" and "concession"?
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