Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby Broomstick » 2017-04-08 06:03pm

For that matter - do we have any idea if those would-be rescuers became sick or not from attempting to decontaminate the victims?

What I mostly see is raw video - but that only tells part of the story. We have little context for what is shown.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby LaCroix » 2017-04-08 06:23pm

Yep, insulting the Russians after they protested did not work the way Trump thought it would.

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/sy ... ast-syria/

BEIRUT, LEBANON (5:20 P.M.) – The Syrian Arab Army’s Regiment 54 targeted a U.S. reconnaissance aircraft flying over the Al-Qamishli countryside in northeastern Syria, local activists reported this evening.

“Regiment 54 of the Syrian Army’s Special Forces forced an American reconnaissance plane to flee the area after approaching the army’s positions in Al-Qamishli,” the local activists claimed.

While this report is still unconfirmed, the Russians did cancel out their non-aggression pact with the U.S. in Syria, which would make any Coalition aircraft a legitimate target for the Syrian military and their allies.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby Darksider » 2017-04-08 07:44pm

I'm seeing reports that Putin's favorite ventriloquist dummy Medvedev is claiming that the U.S. and Russia are "On the verge of a military clash."

Now, I don't think anyone's stupid enough to spark WW3 over this, but 2016/2017 seems to be the period of "this can't happen...... oh shit it did."

At the very least I think we're in for Cold War II: Electric Boogaloo. Which probably tickles the orange one and his supporters positively pink since they love the fucking 80s so much.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-04-08 11:03pm

At this point, all the people saying "World War III could never happen" sound an awful lot like the people who said "Trump can never win."
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby Flagg » 2017-04-08 11:41pm

MKSheppard wrote:Hey wait a minute. Does this mean.....

<singing>
Elfdart and Shep in a tree....kissing... K-I-S-S-I-N-G
</singing>

:luv: :luv: :luv:


Fuck you, you goddamned psychopathic fucknugget. Hell must be colder than a warlock's ballsack, because I more or less agree with you. (Have I mentioned we need a "suicide" emote?)

Not necessarily that no gas attack happened, but that actual physical proof of one seems to not exist. Yeah, we have out of context pictures and video, but using that to launch 58 cruise missiles (within what, 24-36 hours? How much physical evidence can be analyzed in that amount of time by the US?) at an airfield that only accomplished putting craters in the ground and totally alienating the Russians who were actually cooperating with us reeks of the type of kneejerk toughguy bullshit that might as well be called "The Trump Doctrine".

And this idea that this is some rare missile strike in Syria is just so wrong. We've been conducting drone strikes since the Obama administration and that has continued under President Pussygrabber. Though we may start losing drones now that the Russians have gone full "fuck America".
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby Tvpnbb » 2017-04-09 01:48am

Remember though that even Russia isn't denying there was an incident with chemical weapons involved - their claim is that they bombed a rebel chemical weapons factory and that caused the gas to be released. If there were no chemical weapons involved, why would they claim that?

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby K. A. Pital » 2017-04-09 07:10am

Broomstick wrote:For that matter - do we have any idea if those would-be rescuers became sick or not from attempting to decontaminate the victims?

What I mostly see is raw video - but that only tells part of the story. We have little context for what is shown.

No idea, but some of the reports, e.g. by Guardian, are rather suspicious.

They quote Ahrar Ash-Sham members as controlling the attack site, and also some witnesses who claim to have had victims die in their arms. I very much doubt they were wearing hazmat suits. So these witnesses should have been themselves injured by the attack at the very least.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-04-09 09:40am

Perhaps. I expect its hard to get impartial observers on the ground to determine all the facts in such a situation.

Though for me, again, its more a matter of technical accuracy than something that actually effects my view of the larger situation. Their are more than enough grounds to consider Assad a monster, and an intervention theoretically justifiable, regardless, and also more than enough practical reasons to consider it a God awful idea, exactly the kind of destructive stupidity that you'd expect the orange baboon in the White House to cook up.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby ArmorPierce » 2017-04-09 10:14am

Yeah nobody legitimate is claiming that either this attack chemical attack didn't happen, only conspiracy nuts on the Internet. Heck Russia had confirmed Thai there had been a chemical incident.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby Flagg » 2017-04-09 11:25am

Tvpnbb wrote:Remember though that even Russia isn't denying there was an incident with chemical weapons involved - their claim is that they bombed a rebel chemical weapons factory and that caused the gas to be released. If there were no chemical weapons involved, why would they claim that?

I wasn't aware of that, thank you. Doubts concerning the bullshit nature of the incident conceded.

Now, for agreeing with Shep, and the the benefit of all: Image
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby Highlord Laan » 2017-04-09 11:49am

Flagg wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:Hey wait a minute. Does this mean.....

<singing>
Elfdart and Shep in a tree....kissing... K-I-S-S-I-N-G
</singing>

:luv: :luv: :luv:


Fuck you, you goddamned psychopathic fucknugget. Hell must be colder than a warlock's ballsack, because I more or less agree with you. (Have I mentioned we need a "suicide" emote?)

Not necessarily that no gas attack happened, but that actual physical proof of one seems to not exist. Yeah, we have out of context pictures and video, but using that to launch 58 cruise missiles (within what, 24-36 hours? How much physical evidence can be analyzed in that amount of time by the US?) at an airfield that only accomplished putting craters in the ground and totally alienating the Russians who were actually cooperating with us reeks of the type of kneejerk toughguy bullshit that might as well be called "The Trump Doctrine".

And this idea that this is some rare missile strike in Syria is just so wrong. We've been conducting drone strikes since the Obama administration and that has continued under President Pussygrabber. Though we may start losing drones now that the Russians have gone full "fuck America".


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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby Flagg » 2017-04-09 01:01pm

Highlord Laan wrote:
Flagg wrote:(Have I mentioned we need a "suicide" emote?)

Image

Some things just call for seppuku.


No, I've been gutted 4 times, and had 3 2" holes put in my gut (that if it had been done 2 years earlier, no gutting ever would've been needed). But thanks for the link! :lol:
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby Gandalf » 2017-04-10 01:18am

So, people taped a gas attack, sent it off to the news, and the US launched some missiles at an airbase. What comes next to follow up those missiles?

Haley is at the UN promoting regime change, so I guess someone is trying to do something, but it all makes little sense.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby Highlord Laan » 2017-04-10 01:53am

Gandalf wrote:So, people taped a gas attack, sent it off to the news, and the US launched some missiles at an airbase. What comes next to follow up those missiles?

Haley is at the UN promoting regime change, so I guess someone is trying to do something, but it all makes little sense.


Il Duce realizes that the best way to get the republican party and the slack-jawed, chest-thumping, red-blooded murricans that vote for them behind him en mass is a good ol' war against some scary brown people. Post some tweets, play some mournfully patriotic music set to an american flag waving in the breeze, and make a bunch of empty noise about god, mama, and murrican exceptionalism, and bam. Instant poll increase.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby Flagg » 2017-04-10 03:16am

Highlord Laan wrote:
Gandalf wrote:So, people taped a gas attack, sent it off to the news, and the US launched some missiles at an airbase. What comes next to follow up those missiles?

Haley is at the UN promoting regime change, so I guess someone is trying to do something, but it all makes little sense.


Il Duce realizes that the best way to get the republican party and the slack-jawed, chest-thumping, red-blooded murricans that vote for them behind him en mass is a good ol' war against some scary brown people. Post some tweets, play some mournfully patriotic music set to an american flag waving in the breeze, and make a bunch of empty noise about god, mama, and murrican exceptionalism, and bam. Instant poll increase.

Yarp, that's about the size and shape of this slimy turd. The important thing is that our 58 cruise missiles, like great techno phalluses, plunged deeply into the loving Syrian soil.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby Simon_Jester » 2017-04-10 10:54am

Hey, remember all those people who said they were going to vote for Trump because they were worried about Clinton antagonizing the Russians in Syria and triggering World War III? I know a few of 'em.

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-04-10 01:45pm

Simon_Jester wrote:Hey, remember all those people who said they were going to vote for Trump because they were worried about Clinton antagonizing the Russians in Syria and triggering World War III? I know a few of 'em.


Yes, the term is "useful idiots". At least, useful to the Trumps of the world.

Of course, most of them will probably just fall back on "But Clinton is worse" or "the Democrats are just the same as the Republicans" to excuse getting suckered by the (barely) sapient tumour that is Trumpolini.

As to talk of regime change, I really hope it is just talk, because I'm very skeptical that that can be done without war with Russia.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby aerius » 2017-04-10 02:57pm

Simon_Jester wrote:Hey, remember all those people who said they were going to vote for Trump because they were worried about Clinton antagonizing the Russians in Syria and triggering World War III? I know a few of 'em.


Context. Clinton was guaranteed to escalate shit in Syria and other places, remember that she was involved in starting and/or supporting the regime changes which completely fucked up Libya, Syria, and the Ukraine in the first place. She was cheering for missile strikes on Syria before Trump launched them.

Trump claimed he wouldn't continue to fuck shit up in foreign countries, a claim which we now know to be a lie. However, given a choice between a candidate who has and continues to advocate for fucking shit up in the Middle East and pissing off Russia and a person who says he's going to stop that shit (but is probably lying), you take the choice that gives you a less than 100% chance of triggering the event. In short, wanna play Russian Roulette with a revolver with 2 loaded chambers, or a semi-auto with a bullet in the chamber and a full mag? Both choices suck, but gun to your head, which one do you pick?
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-04-11 12:03am

A claim by Trump which any reasonable person could tell was a lie, and even if you want to push the bullshit "they're both the same" narrative on this one point, Trump was objectively worse on innumerable other points.

Stop defending people who made a stupid choice by pretending that they couldn't have known it was a stupid choice. We knew. Everyone knew who wasn't a conspiracy theorist, a partisan hack, or wilfully deluding themselves.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby mr friendly guy » 2017-04-11 12:58am

To be fair, the only two things that I got from Trump that he might actually believe or at least support is a) anti environmentalism stuff and b) isolationism * and of course the bigotry. The rest was buzzwords and phrases like "drain the swamp" and "make America great again."

So far he has been consistent with 2 out of the three.


* I am aware years ago he supported the Iraq war, but it wasn't unreasonable to think that he may have either changed his mind or decided to ignore what he believes in favour of his current platform for personal gain.

Edit - to further elaborate, a lot of his claims he flip flopped on like
a. Big pharma sux, then after one meeting I am their bitch
b. I hate Obamacare, and then I like parts of Obamacare
c. I am going to lock her up, then I am not
d. Get tough on China with the One China policy, then I fold
e. I am going to build that wall, now its only a fence and not as big

The first three things I mentioned were the only things I had a feel that he was consistent with, most probably because he didn't change his mind about them very quickly.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-04-11 01:09am

I still am on the fence, and leaning towards "no", as to weather Trumpolini has a sincere ideological commitment to anything. Oh, I don't doubt he's racist, and sexist, and so on- his record throughout his life has too many examples to dismiss that as just a political act. But I don't think he would be likely to consciously put such things over his own self-interest.

We didn't elect an ideologue. We elected a pathological narcissist, and quite possibly a sociopath.

Edit: Of course, as long as the ideologues profit him and stroke his ego, he'll be happy to further their agenda, as long as the whim suites him. And many of the people surrounding him are far Right ideologues.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby mr friendly guy » 2017-04-11 01:56am

I am not saying he is definitely ideologically committed to these things, I am saying it appears at the very least he is more willing to pander to these things whether he truly believes in them or not. Being isolationist was one of the things he appeared to be fairly consistent on, which made me think that even if he didn't believe in it, he was willing to pander to those who did. Apparently not in this latest Syria case.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-04-11 02:06am

I expect his consistent values match up pretty closely to what he feels (rightly or wrongly) profits him and his businesses. As I said, I do think he is racist and sexist, but I also think he'll ultimately do what he thinks benefits him (unless he goes into a tantrum because someone pricked his so very thin skin).

In short, Trump's most consistent ideology is Trump.

Edit: And note that he is quite happy to bring in cheap immigrant labour for his businesses, or make trade deals with other countries when it suites him. This isolationist shit is just more posturing, or rules for other people that he himself will never follow.

Edit: Plus he frequently campaigned on destroying Daesh, not that anyone but the most anti-war fringe will blame him for that one.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby Flagg » 2017-04-11 07:00am

President Pussygrabber has one ideology: Making as much money as he can for himself by bending America over a table and fucking it until he gets voted out, or the mouth-breathing knuckledraggers who seem to be the only people that bother vote anymore reelect him. Then he gets to blow his load after 8 years and his fellow oligarchs (the entire Donnie Douchebag cabinet, more or less) take sloppy seconds.

And given the way things have played out over the past few decades, a Democrat will get elected and when stepping into the Whitehouse will be given a mop and bucket and be told to clean up the mess.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Postby Simon_Jester » 2017-04-11 01:18pm

aerius wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:Hey, remember all those people who said they were going to vote for Trump because they were worried about Clinton antagonizing the Russians in Syria and triggering World War III? I know a few of 'em.


Context. Clinton was guaranteed to escalate shit in Syria and other places, remember that she was involved in starting and/or supporting the regime changes which completely fucked up Libya, Syria, and the Ukraine in the first place. She was cheering for missile strikes on Syria before Trump launched them.
And Trump was going around bragging about how he was going to kick Da'esh's ass. But people willfully forget that, because Trump has a way of convincing people it's a good idea to pretend the emperor has no clothes.

Trump claimed he wouldn't continue to fuck shit up in foreign countries, a claim which we now know to be a lie. However, given a choice between a candidate who has and continues to advocate for fucking shit up in the Middle East and pissing off Russia and a person who says he's going to stop that shit (but is probably lying), you take the choice that gives you a less than 100% chance of triggering the event. In short, wanna play Russian Roulette with a revolver with 2 loaded chambers, or a semi-auto with a bullet in the chamber and a full mag? Both choices suck, but gun to your head, which one do you pick?
You're acting like Trump wasn't obviously a petulant manbaby who would inevitably violate his own rules, either because he threw a tantrum or because he saw a chance to opportunistically profit. It doesn't matter what Trump said, it literally made no goddamn difference because he would cheerfully brag about how he was going to tear down X one day, then how he was going to do X only do it a ton better the next day. In his own mind, Donald Trump’s block tower is the biggest. He does not need a nap or a snack. He has the longest, biggest attention span.

It's like people went out of their way to elect King Ubu, and now we're running around pretending that he's normal and comparable to sane people who at least comprehend the idea of consequences.

Clinton at least has, and had, the mental capacity to comprehend that "X is a bad idea, we should not do X." Trump lacks this capacity, and therefore no argument of this form bites on him. He's too busy being a narcissistic creep.

Trump has been in the White House for less than three months and he's already antagonized the Russians over Syria. Clinton could hardly have done 'better' at that, gotten it done faster, if she'd tried.

So I would argue that your analogy is a good one, you just plugged it in backwards. Trump was always going to predictably disappoint on every issue, because he was always a lying sociopathic fuck. People knew this about him long before he ran for president. In our Russian roulette analogy, he's the automatic pistol, because he's incapable of not firing every time you test him by pulling the trigger. He will disappoint on every issue. Clinton is the revolver, at worst, because she's at least got the capacity to listen to reason and to act for reasons other than personal aggrandizement.


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