Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by mr friendly guy » 2018-11-27 05:27am

Trump's policy on Iran has another effect.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/26/iran-sa ... oject.html
Iran says China's CNPC replacing France's Total in gas project
China's state-owned CNPC has replaced France's Total in Iran's multibillion-dollar South Pars gas project, Iranian Oil Minister Bijan Zanganeh said, according to the semi-official news agency ICANA on Sunday.
Total, which had a 50.1 percent stake in the project, and CNPC could not immediately be reached for comment.
The French company said in August it had told Iranian authorities it would withdraw from the South Pars gas project after it failed to obtain a waiver from U.S. sanctions against Iran.
Published 7:15 PM ET Sun, 25 Nov 2018
Trump, making China great again. :lol:
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by mr friendly guy » 2018-12-04 04:58am

http://www.startribune.com/farm-bankrup ... 501157191/
Farm bankruptcies are on the rise, and bankers worry that far more are on the way

<snip>
Farm bankruptcies are on the rise in Minnesota and across the Upper Midwest.

Eighty-four farms filed for Chapter 12 bankruptcy in Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota and Montana in the 12 months that ended in June, according to a new analysis from the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis. That’s more than double the number over the same period in 2013 and 2014, and the number of bankruptcies in Minnesota doubled over the past four years from eight to 20.
Farm bankruptcy on the rise
The number of farm bankruptcies in the 12 months ending in June were more than double the number of bankruptcies over the same period in 2013 and 2014, both in Minnesota and across the region.

The increase in Chapter 12 filings reflects low prices for corn, soybeans, milk and even beef. The situation for most farmers has worsened since June under retaliatory tariffs that have closed the Chinese market for soybeans and damaged exports of milk and pork.
Fighting a trade war while your farmers are hurting. A war the US started. Good idea.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Gandalf » 2018-12-04 05:09am

It's really helped Brazil's economy, and I recall reading that they can now get soybeans cheap from the US and sell higher to China.

Trump: Making Brazil Great Again.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by mr friendly guy » 2018-12-04 05:16am

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ut-with-xi
Trump's Advisers Struggle to Explain Deal He Says He Cut With Xi
By Shawn Donnan
4 December 2018, 06:03 GMT+8 Updated on 4 December 2018, 09:15 GMT+8
President hails ‘extraordinary’ dinner with Chinese leader
Kudlow says China made ‘commitments’ to ‘presumably implement’

President Donald Trump left his top advisers scrambling on Monday to explain a trade deal he claimed he’d struck with China to reduce tariffs on U.S. cars exported to the country -- an agreement that doesn’t exist on paper and hasn’t been confirmed in Beijing.

In the day after Trump announced the deal in a two-sentence Twitter post, the White House provided no additional information. At a briefing in Beijing, a spokesman for the foreign ministry declined to comment on any changes to car tariffs.

Questioned about the agreement on Monday, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and Trump’s top economic adviser, Larry Kudlow, dialed back expectations and added qualifiers.
Well yes, of course the dinner with the Chinese leader was "extraordinary." Their Argentine hosts most probably served him something other than MacDonalds. :lol:
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2018-12-04 11:29am

Well-done steak slathered in ketchup.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-12-14 02:20am

The Senate has voted in favour of Bernie Sanders and Mike Lee's bill, blaming Crown Prince bin Salman for the murder of Khashoggi, and ending US support for the Saudi war against Yemen:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46561520
The US Senate has voted to withdraw US military aid for Saudi Arabia's war on Yemen and to blame the kingdom's crown prince for the murder of a journalist.
The historic vote is the first time any chamber of US Congress has agreed to pull US forces from a military conflict under the 1973 War Powers Act.
Some of President Donald Trump's fellow Republicans defied him to pass the measure with Democrats by 56-41.
But the resolution is seen as largely symbolic and unlikely to become law.
Senators rebuke Trump with Yemen vote
Jamal Khashoggi: The story so far
What did the Senate actually do?
The non-binding "war powers resolution" calls upon President Trump to remove all American forces engaging in hostilities in Yemen, except for those combating Islamist extremists.
The Senate then unanimously passed a resolution blaming Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman for Washington Post reporter Jamal Khashoggi's murder in October, and insisting that the kingdom hold accountable those responsible.
The US chose to cease refuelling Saudi war planes last month, and Thursday's resolution - if it were ultimately passed into law - would prohibit that practice from resuming.
Mohammed bin Salman shakes hands with Donald Trump in the White HouseImage copyrightREUTERS
Image caption
President Trump has consistently defended US business and military ties with Saudi Arabia
What did senators say?
Independent Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, who co-sponsored the measure with Republican Mike Lee of Utah, hailed the vote.
ADVERTISEMENT

"Today we tell the despotic government of Saudi Arabia that we will not be part of their military adventures," he said.
He described the outcome as a signal to "the world that the United States of America will not continue to be part of the worst humanitarian disaster on the face of the earth".
Republican Senator Bob Corker told MSNBC: "If he was before a jury, the crown prince, he would be convicted in my opinion in 30 minutes."
Presentational grey line
Status quo no longer acceptable
Analysis by Barbara Plett, BBC State Department Correspondent
The two resolutions send a strong message that for a majority of senators, the status quo with Saudi Arabia is no longer acceptable.
They value the strategic relationship but are deeply uneasy about the leadership of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. They have viewed his foreign interventions with growing concern, especially the human cost of the war in Yemen.
But it was the grisly murder of Jamal Khashoggi that tipped the scales: it dramatically increased support for the resolution to withdraw US military support for the Saudi-led campaign in Yemen, something that failed to pass earlier in the year. Many senators saw the Khashoggi killing as the blatantly egregious act of an ally that felt immune from rebuke.
And they were dismayed when the administration stood staunchly by the prince without censure, even though the CIA concluded he probably ordered the killing. Senators want to see the administration shape the alliance as the senior partner, and enforce red lines.
Senior Republican Senator Bob Corker noted recently that much of the bipartisan activism in the Senate had been fuelled by a perception that there iss no balance between values and interests in the administration's policies.
Presentational grey line
Can this legislation become law?
President Trump has vowed to veto the measure, and it is unlikely right now to pass the House of Representatives, which on Wednesday blocked a vote on the matter.
But Senator Sanders said he expects the resolution to succeed once Democrats formally take over control of the House in January following their mid-term elections victory.
The Trump administration had argued the bill would undercut US support for the Saudi-led coalition against Iranian-backed Houthi rebels in Yemen.
White House officials have emphasised US economic ties to the kingdom. Mr Trump's adviser and son-in-law, Jared Kushner, has continued to cultivate ties with the prince, according to the US media.
Why the battle for Hudaydah matters
Why is there a war in Yemen?
What's the latest in Yemen?
A ceasefire agreed by the warring parties on Thursday has come into effect in the country's main port, Hudaydah.
A bomb strike in Yemen in MarchImage copyrightGETTY IMAGES
After the deal was reached in Sweden, negotiators for both parties shook hands to applause, though they later expressed scepticism.
UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres said he hoped this would be the starting point to bring nearly four years of civil strife to a close.
Since hostilities began in 2014, thousands of civilians have been killed, and around 14 million people have been pushed to the brink of starvation, according to the UN.
Saudi Arabia buys the bulk of its weapons from the US, Britain and France.
Trump has pledged to veto the bill.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2018-12-14 03:01am

Like we couldn't see that coming.
"Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone amongst God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him, drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of Death.."
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-12-14 03:02am

Trump threatening a veto is predictable, yes, but it's still very encouraging that there is at least some bi-partisan support, enough to get a vote through the Senate, for holding the Saudis accountable and not giving them a blank check. Maybe it will be the beginning of a move away from endless American complicity in Saudi atrocities.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-12-15 01:12am

On the subject of Middle Eastern financial ties- Trump's inauguration may have received illegal money from the Middle East in exchange for political favours, and is now under investigation:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/13/politics ... index.html
Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump's 2017 inaugural committee is currently being investigated by federal prosecutors in New York for possible financial abuses related to the more than $100 million in donations raised for his inauguration, according to sources familiar with the matter.

One source familiar with the matter says the investigation is in the early stages and investigators are generally focused on whether any inauguration money was misspent.
The investigation was first reported by The Wall Street Journal Thursday afternoon.
Citing conversations with people familiar with the investigation, which is being handled by the US Attorney's office in Manhattan, the Journal reported that prosecutors are also looking into whether the committee accepted donations from individuals looking to gain influence in or access to the new administration.
The newspaper notes that "giving money in exchange for political favors" is illegal, as is misuse of any donated funds. The committee was registered as a nonprofit.
The New York Times reported Thursday night that federal prosecutors are looking into whether people from foreign countries funneled potentially illegal donations to both the inaugural fund and a pro-Trump super PAC in efforts to buy "influence over American policy." The paper, citing people familiar with the inquiry, said it focuses on people from Middle Eastern countries -- including Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates -- and whether they "used straw donors to disguise their donations to the two funds."
Federal law does not allow foreign contributions to inaugural funds or PACs, according to the Times.
In a statement, Trump's inaugural committee said the celebration was "in full compliance with all applicable laws."
"The (committee) is not aware of any pending investigations and has not been contacted by any prosecutors. We simply have no evidence the investigation exists," the statement read.
"The (committee's) finances were fully audited internally and independently and are fully accounted. Moreover, the inauguration's accounting was provided both to the Federal Election Commission and the IRS in compliance with all laws and regulations. These were funds raised from private individuals and were then spent in accordance with the law and the expectations of the donors. The names of donors were provided to the FEC and have been public for nearly two years and those donors were vetted in accordance with the law and no improprieties have been found regardng the vetting of those donors."
When asked by reporters about the Wall Street Journal story Thursday, White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said, "That doesn't have anything to do with the President or the first lady. The biggest thing the President did, his engagement in the inauguration, was to come here and raise his hand and take the oath of office. The President was focused on the transition at that time and not on any of the planning for the inauguration."
According to the Journal, sources told the paper that the investigation "partly arises out of materials seized in the federal probe of former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen's business dealings."
During a raid of Cohen's properties last spring, a recorded conversation between him and Stephanie Winston Wolkoff, a former adviser to first lady Melania Trump, was seized, according to the newspaper. Wolkoff expressed concern in the conversation about how the inaugural committee was spending money, a person familiar with the Cohen investigation told the Journal.
Rick Gates, Trump's former campaign aide who has been cooperating with special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election, was asked by prosecutors about the committee's spending and its donors, the Journal reported, citing conversations with people close to the matter.
Tom Barrack, a real estate developer who ran the inaugural committee, has not yet spoken with investigators since an interview he had with the special counsel last year, a source familiar with the matter told CNN. During his conversation with Mueller, the inaugural fund was only raised briefly, the source said.
"The inaugural committee hasn't been asked for records or been contacted by prosecutors. We are not aware of any investigation," the source told CNN.
The committee, which CNN previously reported had raised a record-setting $107 million, received much of its funding from wealthy donors who gave $1 million or more, according to the Journal. Some of the fund's top donors, including billionaire Sheldon Adelson, AT&T Inc. (the parent company of CNN) and Boeing Co. are not currently under investigation, the newspaper reported.
This story has been updated.
Also (Posting here because its not directly related to the Mueller probe), Russian spy and gun activist Maria Butina pleads guilty to conspiracy against the United States, and admits to infiltrating the NRA and Republican Party on the orders of Russian oligarch and Putin ally Torshin:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... conspiracy
A 30-year-old former student has become the first Russian national convicted for seeking to influence US politics during the 2016 presidential election.

Maria Butina, who built a powerful network that reached into Donald Trump’s circle, tried to infiltrate the influential National Rifle Association (NRA) and relay intelligence on American politicians to a Russian government official.


Maria Butina: ties emerge between NRA, alleged spy and Russian billionaire
Read more
On Thursday, at the US district court for the District of Columbia, Butina pleaded guilty to a conspiracy to act as an agent of a foreign government and agreed to cooperate with prosecutors in exchange for less prison time.

The prosecutors in the Butina case are not from the office of special counsel Robert Mueller, who is investigating Russia’s interference in the 2016 election and whether Trump’s campaign conspired with Moscow. Mueller has brought criminal charges against a series of Russian individuals and entities but those cases are still pending.

Butina entered the packed courtroom in Washington looking composed but wan. The court heard that solitary confinement has taken a toll on her. Her red hair was pulled back in a long braid. She wore a green jumpsuit with short sleeves; underneath was a white garment that had a hole in the left elbow.


She stood before Judge Tanya Chutkan and took the oath. The judge asked if Butina’s mind was clear as she prepared to enter the guilty plea. She replied: “Absolutely clear.”

Butina is a former graduate student at American University in Washington and enthusiastic gun rights activist. Prosecutors said she drafted a proposal entitled “Description of Diplomacy Project” in March 2015 – before Trump launched his election campaign – to develop ties with the Republicans with the aim of influencing US foreign policy.

The statement of offence notes: “Further, Butina opined that the circumstances were favorable for building relations with a certain US political party (hereafter, ‘Political Party #1’). Butina predicted that the candidate nominated by Political Party #1 would likely win the upcoming US presidential election.”

In this courtroom sketch, Maria Butina, left, is shown next to her attorney Robert Driscoll on Thursday
In this courtroom sketch, Maria Butina, left, is shown next to her attorney Robert Driscoll on Thursday Photograph: Dana Verkouteren/AP
She did not shy away from the spotlight. In July 2015 Butina was selected to ask Trump a question about his plans for ties with Russia at a rally in Las Vegas. In what are thought to be his first public remarks on the issue, the novice candidate replied: “I believe I would get along very nicely with Putin … I don’t think you’d need the sanctions.”

Prosecutors also told how Butina worked with her American boyfriend Paul Erickson, a longtime Republican operative and insider at theNRA, to pursue the plot.

The scheme was guided and financed in part by Alexander Torshin, an ally of Russian president Vladimir Putin and deputy governor of the Russian central bank whose retirement was reported last week by US media.

The statement of offence reads: “With US Person 1’s assistance and subject to Russian Official’s direction, Butina sought to establish unofficial lines of communication with Americans having power and influence over US politics. Butina sought to use those unofficial lines of communication for the benefit of the Russian Federation, acting through Russian Official.”

In early 2016, Erickson was in contact with a senior official on the Trump campaign, Rick Dearborn, offering to help set up a meeting between Trump and Putin before the election, with Torshin apparently the middleman.

And in May 2016, Torshin and Trump’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr, attended a formal dinner during the NRA’s annual convention in Louisville, Kentucky, though it is not known if they spoke to each other.

Butina also travelled to conferences to meet Republican candidates, hosted “friendship dinners” with wealthy Americans, courted with NRA leaders and coordinated a Russian delegation to last year’s national prayer breakfast in Washington, where Trump gave remarks.

She was arrested in July 2017 and charged with acting as an agent of Russia’s government and conspiracy to take actions on behalf of Moscow. She initially pleaded not guilty but changed her plea at Thursday’s hearing.

Chutkan repeatedly asked if Butina understood what rights she was waiving. She said she did. Chutkan asked: “What do you want to do?” Butina replied firmly: “Guilty.”

The judge said: “I am satisfied that Maria Butina is fully competent and capable of making a decision today … I will accept the guilty plea and Maria Butina is judged guilty of this offence.”


Accused spy Maria Butina met with Russia's former US ambassador
No sentencing date has been set but a status hearing was scheduled for 12 February. Under her plea deal, Butina agreed to cooperate “completely and forthrightly” with US law enforcement about “any and all” matters deemed relevant. She faces a possible maximum prison sentence of five years followed by deportation. But her lawyer, Robert Driscoll, estimated that under US sentencing guidelines for similar crimes, she could face up to six months in prison.


The prosecution’s statement of offence did not mention Trump or his campaign by name. But Reuters has previously reported that Butina was a Trump supporter who boasted at Washington parties that she could use her political connections to help people get jobs in his White House. No evidence was presented that she worked for Russian intelligence.

But the case will continue to reverberate in Washington as Mueller’s net tightens around Trump and his allies, including the gun lobby. Democratic congressman Ted Lieu tweeted: “The guilty plea of Russian operative Maria Butina today raises the questions of what did @NRA officials know and when did they know it? The plea also raises the issue of what GOP party members or electeds may have known. Oh, and in January, House Democrats control subpoena power.”

Putin spoke about Butina on Tuesday in Moscow, a day after US court filings indicated that she would plea guilty in Washington. “She risks 15 years in jail. For what?” he asked. “I asked all the heads of our intelligence services what is going on. Nobody knows anything about her.”
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

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Official says US to withdraw all American troops in Syria

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2018-12-19 01:44pm

President Donald Trump has said US troops do not need to remain in Syria.

It comes as the White House declared victory on Wednesday in the mission to defeat Islamic State militants there.

The Trump administration will withdraw all of the remaining American forces - approximately 2,000 American troops in Syria - according to a U.S. official.

Planning for the pullout has begun and troops will begin leaving as soon as possible, said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

President Trump said American forces no longer were needed in a country torn apart by long-running civil war.

He said on Twitter: "We have defeated ISIS in Syria, my only reason for being there during the Trump Presidency."
Link.
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Re: Official says US to withdraw all American troops in Syria

Post by Highlord Laan » 2018-12-19 11:12pm

EnterpriseSovereign wrote:
2018-12-19 01:44pm
President Donald Trump has said US troops do not need to remain in Syria.

It comes as the White House declared victory on Wednesday in the mission to defeat Islamic State militants there.

The Trump administration will withdraw all of the remaining American forces - approximately 2,000 American troops in Syria - according to a U.S. official.

Planning for the pullout has begun and troops will begin leaving as soon as possible, said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

President Trump said American forces no longer were needed in a country torn apart by long-running civil war.

He said on Twitter: "We have defeated ISIS in Syria, my only reason for being there during the Trump Presidency."
Link.
All the people cheering are completely missing that this geopolitical clusterfuck of a move is pretty much handing the majority of Mideast politics to Russia and Iran. Handling Isis is now going to be entirely in Russia's hands, which, after they do is the proper Russian manner (IE: kill them all) that means they'll have inroads with Iraq and the rest of the Mideast. They'll happily support Iran against Saudi and Israel, and since the worthless dumb motherfucker in chief has undermined in totality the US' standing in general abroad and very specifically in the Mideast, even Israel and Saudi won't see the US as a dependable ally. Oh, look. China is looking for dependable allies in the region to support it's aims.

Seventy years of diplomatic power and development pissed away in under three. I hope you fucking retard republicans are happy, and that every last one of you chokes to death on it.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Ralin » 2018-12-20 12:03am

Decades of Middle Eastern diplomacy and 'development' got us 9/11 and two horrific wars of aggression. If Trump wants to burn it all to the ground than good for him. If countries in the region want to ally with Russia and China to fill the void that's a substantial improvement because neither of those countries have the largest economy or the most powerful military machine in history behind them when they decide to throw their weight around. They don't have nearly as much ability to inflict harm on the Middle East as we do.

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Tribble » 2018-12-20 06:34am

You know, I actually agree with Trump on this one. Aside from (perhaps) WW2, the US getting involved militarily in international affairs has never helped anyone, and they usually just make things worse.

Maybe they should just pull out off all countries outside of the Americas and let the rest of the world run (or destroy) itself. It's not like the rest of the world likes US military involvement anyways (except for the dictators they prop up).
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Ralin » 2018-12-20 08:02am

One of the short list of not-terrible things about Trump is that he has a somewhat consistent and apparently sincere track record of saying our various wars in the Middle East are stupid wastes of lives and money that we never should have gotten involved in.

I mean, don't get me wrong, he actively wants to commit war crimes and loot other countries. But he probably wants to withdraw all troops from Afghanistan so he can declare victory where Obama failed more.

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-12-20 01:18pm

I do think withdrawing troops from Syria is probably the right course of action, in my non-expert opinion. Theoretically, I'd have no problem with an intervention to end a genocidal war which has repeatedly spilled over into other countries, or to topple someone who uses chemical weapons on civilians. But any intervention large enough to accomplish those goals would risk conflict with Russia, and I feel like a smaller scale presence is just going to drag the fighting out without achieving much. I do think America can do some good in Syria, but it needs to be primarily through means of diplomacy and humanitarian aid, and not through long-term troop deployments.

That said, Trump is full of shit (as usual), when he claims ISIS is already defeated. The manner in which he did this (declaring a major policy decision by surprise tweet, without conferring with anyone else first) is clownishly unprofessional. And I hope no one is naïve enough to believe that he is doing this out of concern for Syrian (or American) lives, or some principle of non-intervention. He's doing this as a favor to the Man with the Golden Shower Tape.

It may actually be a politically smart move for him as well, though. Because his base won't care as long as he stays white, male and an asshole, and his opponents already hate him, but there is a group of so-called progressives who's defining issue is their hatred for the Western "establishment", particularly the military-industrial complex and interventionism. The people who will automatically defend any action as long as it is in opposition to a western military intervention. A lot of the Bernie or Busters fell into this column, any hope of Trump's reelection will depend in part on keeping those people from either voting for him or staying home again, and they will lap this up and dutifully praise Trump, no matter how many laws or constitutional rights he violates, how many environmental protections he shreds, or how many children he puts in cages.
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"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Ralin » 2018-12-20 05:36pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-12-20 01:18pm
It may actually be a politically smart move for him as well, though. Because his base won't care as long as he stays white, male and an asshole, and his opponents already hate him, but there is a group of so-called progressives who's defining issue is their hatred for the Western "establishment", particularly the military-industrial complex and interventionism. The people who will automatically defend any action as long as it is in opposition to a western military intervention. A lot of the Bernie or Busters fell into this column, any hope of Trump's reelection will depend in part on keeping those people from either voting for him or staying home again, and they will lap this up and dutifully praise Trump, no matter how many laws or constitutional rights he violates, how many environmental protections he shreds, or how many children he puts in cages.
There's a group of so-called progressives who not-so-secretly want to be Good George W Bush and are always on the look out for a war that will be the mythical good American military intervention to make the world a better place and stop the bad men in charge of those foreign places without being an atrocity that burns wealth and lives and rips apart countries.

Get this through your head: There is no good imperialism. Anything that dismantles America's web of military alliances and foreign bases, anything that results in American troops getting the fuck out of the Middle East, anything that nips what would turn out to be yet another forever war is good news.

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-12-20 05:38pm

Ralin wrote:
2018-12-20 05:36pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-12-20 01:18pm
It may actually be a politically smart move for him as well, though. Because his base won't care as long as he stays white, male and an asshole, and his opponents already hate him, but there is a group of so-called progressives who's defining issue is their hatred for the Western "establishment", particularly the military-industrial complex and interventionism. The people who will automatically defend any action as long as it is in opposition to a western military intervention. A lot of the Bernie or Busters fell into this column, any hope of Trump's reelection will depend in part on keeping those people from either voting for him or staying home again, and they will lap this up and dutifully praise Trump, no matter how many laws or constitutional rights he violates, how many environmental protections he shreds, or how many children he puts in cages.
There's a group of so-called progressives who not-so-secretly want to be Good George W Bush and are always on the look out for a war that will be the mythical good American military intervention to make the world a better place and stop the bad men in charge of those foreign places without being an atrocity that burns wealth and lives and rips apart countries.

Get this through your head: There is no good imperialism. Anything that dismantles America's web of military alliances and foreign bases, anything that results in American troops getting the fuck out of the Middle East, anything that nips what would turn out to be yet another forever war is good news.
...I'm pretty sure TRR isn't arguing for more imperialism?
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Tribble » 2018-12-20 06:51pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-12-20 05:38pm
Ralin wrote:
2018-12-20 05:36pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-12-20 01:18pm
It may actually be a politically smart move for him as well, though. Because his base won't care as long as he stays white, male and an asshole, and his opponents already hate him, but there is a group of so-called progressives who's defining issue is their hatred for the Western "establishment", particularly the military-industrial complex and interventionism. The people who will automatically defend any action as long as it is in opposition to a western military intervention. A lot of the Bernie or Busters fell into this column, any hope of Trump's reelection will depend in part on keeping those people from either voting for him or staying home again, and they will lap this up and dutifully praise Trump, no matter how many laws or constitutional rights he violates, how many environmental protections he shreds, or how many children he puts in cages.
There's a group of so-called progressives who not-so-secretly want to be Good George W Bush and are always on the look out for a war that will be the mythical good American military intervention to make the world a better place and stop the bad men in charge of those foreign places without being an atrocity that burns wealth and lives and rips apart countries.

Get this through your head: There is no good imperialism. Anything that dismantles America's web of military alliances and foreign bases, anything that results in American troops getting the fuck out of the Middle East, anything that nips what would turn out to be yet another forever war is good news.
...I'm pretty sure TRR isn't arguing for more imperialism?
I'm quite sure TRR isn't though at a glance the above post may appear so; I admit it took me a couple of reads to get the just of it.

My summary (subject to TRR's correction):

Group of voters exist whose main issues are American military interventions + the "establishment".
Trump promises to withdraw American troops and puts himself out there as "anti-establishment".
Therefore this group votes for Trump in spite of all of other things that Trump does.

The second point is that this group is large enough to tip the balance in an election which is why Trump is willing to cater to them (or at least convince them that's he's not threatening enough to get out there and vote against him.)
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2018-12-20 10:12pm

And Trump is now pulling the US out of Afghanistan. Guess US isolationism is probably the direction we're going in. That's a good thing, right? Right?
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Gandalf » 2018-12-20 10:22pm

Less interventionism by the US would have prevented Iraq and Vietnam, so... there's merit to it.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2018-12-20 11:55pm

The question is, how far will this go? Yes, Adventures into the Middle East on a president's whim are probably not a good idea, but is a more powerful Russia influencing things really the best thing for the area? Is it great for Europe as well?
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Gandalf » 2018-12-21 12:01am

Beats me. But maybe there's a whole bunch of options between total isolationism and sending people places on Crusades to help Dick Cheney's bank account.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2018-12-21 08:25am

It's telling that the only positive response that's come so far has been from Russia- Putin has welcomed news of US withdrawal.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2018-12-21 11:29am

So, nevermind, mercenaries are the Trump answer.

Military Times
Mattis is out, and Blackwater is back: ‘We are coming’
By: Tara Copp   11 hours ago

Blackwater USA took out a full page ad in the January/February 2019 issue of "Recoil" magazine with the company's logo and a message: "We are coming."
Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis is out.

Mattis' resignation comes amid news that President Donald Trump has directed the drawdown of 2,000 U.S. forces in Syria, and 7,000 U.S. forces from Afghanistan, a U.S. official confirmed to Military Times, a story first reported by the Wall Street Journal.

This month, in the January/February print issue of the gun and hunting magazine “Recoil," the former contractor security firm Blackwater USA published a full-page ad, in all black with a simple message: “We are coming.”

Is the war in Afghanistan — and possibly elsewhere ― about to be privatized?

If Blackwater returns, it would be the return of a private security contractor that was banned from Iraq, but re-branded and never really went away. By 2016 Blackwater had been re-branded several times and was known at the time as Constellis Group, when it was purchased by the Apollo Holdings Group. Reuters reported earlier this year that Apollo had put Constellis up for sale, but in June the sale was put on hold.

Blackwater’s founder and former CEO Erik Prince has courted President Donald Trump’s administration since he took office with the idea that the now 17-year Afghan War will never be won by a traditional military campaign. Prince has also argued that the logistical footprint required to support that now multi-trillion dollar endeavor has become too burdensome. Over the summer and into this fall Prince has engaged heavily with the media to promote the privatization; particularly as the Trump administration’s new South Asia Strategy, which was crafted with Mattis, passed the one-year mark.

Prince has no connection to the current Constellis group; if Blackwater does return to operations, it is not clear what, if any tie, Prince would have to the endeavor.

Constellis, which had maintained a footprint at Camp Integrity by the Kabul Airport through its previous iteration as “Academi” has leased land at the facility to hold another 800 personnel, Military Times learned.

Here’s the blueprint for Erik Prince’s $5 billion plan to privatize the Afghanistan war
Here’s the blueprint for Erik Prince’s $5 billion plan to privatize the Afghanistan war
The U.S. has spent $1 trillion in Afghanistan. The Blackwater founder asks, is it time to try something new?

By: Tara Copp
The news of a leaning on a smaller number of privatized forces, instead of a larger U.S. military footprint — and contracted support for U.S. forces that knew few bounds and at times included coffee shops, base exchanges, restaurants, a hockey rink and local vendor shops — may be welcomed by current U.S. military leadership on the ground. That includes former Joint Special Operations Command chief Army Lt. Gen. Scott Miller, a source familiar with Miller’s approach told Military Times. Miller replaced Gen. John Nicholson as the head of all U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan in September.

In an previous exclusive interview with Military Times, Prince said he would scrap the NATO mission there and replace the estimated 23,000 forces in country with a force of 6,000 contracted personnel and 2,000 active-duty special forces.

The potential privatization of the Afghan War was previously dismissed by the White House, and roundly criticized by Mattis, who saw it as a risk to emplace the nation’s national security goals in the hands of contractors.

“When Americans put their nation’s credibility on the line, privatizing it is probably not a wise idea,” Mattis told reporters in August.

But Mattis is out now, one in a series of moves that has surprised most of the Pentagon.

Drastic change would “be more likely” now, one DOD official said.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-12-21 01:21pm

Ralin wrote:
2018-12-20 05:36pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-12-20 01:18pm
It may actually be a politically smart move for him as well, though. Because his base won't care as long as he stays white, male and an asshole, and his opponents already hate him, but there is a group of so-called progressives who's defining issue is their hatred for the Western "establishment", particularly the military-industrial complex and interventionism. The people who will automatically defend any action as long as it is in opposition to a western military intervention. A lot of the Bernie or Busters fell into this column, any hope of Trump's reelection will depend in part on keeping those people from either voting for him or staying home again, and they will lap this up and dutifully praise Trump, no matter how many laws or constitutional rights he violates, how many environmental protections he shreds, or how many children he puts in cages.
There's a group of so-called progressives who not-so-secretly want to be Good George W Bush and are always on the look out for a war that will be the mythical good American military intervention to make the world a better place and stop the bad men in charge of those foreign places without being an atrocity that burns wealth and lives and rips apart countries.

Get this through your head: There is no good imperialism. Anything that dismantles America's web of military alliances and foreign bases, anything that results in American troops getting the fuck out of the Middle East, anything that nips what would turn out to be yet another forever war is good news.
Spoken like a true single-issue fanatic.

This, THIS is why Trump won. Because there are people who are so fixated on their hatred of America and the American establishment that anything that undermines it is automatically treated as good, even if it's fascist.

No, not all change is good. Believe it or not, the pre-Trump status quo was NOT the worst of all possible worlds, and if you imagine that it was, you're simply a privileged little child. And since it is not the worst of all possible worlds, it logically follows that not everything that undermines it is automatically an improvement.

Besides, this isn't an end to Imperialism. All it is is the Middle East trading one foreign master who commits war crimes (the US) for another (Russia). The only difference being that Russia doesn't bother with even the pretence of believing in freedom. But that doesn't matter, because, they're not "the West", and therefore their imperialism is completely justified as resisting American imperialism? Right?

Edit: Also, what FaxModem said. The US will bring the troops home- and outsource the war to even less professional or accountable mercenaries (netting a tidy profit for Trump's lackeys). But sure, cheer this on. I guess it makes sense, if you're so busy masturbating to the destruction of America that you either don't see or don't care that you're carrying water for fascists.
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