Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

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Crazedwraith
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-04-11 01:19pm

Syria war: Trump says missiles 'will be coming'
The BBC wrote: US President Donald Trump has tweeted that Russia should "get ready" for missiles to be fired at its ally Syria, in response to an alleged chemical attack near Damascus on Saturday.

"Get ready Russia, because they will be coming, nice and new and 'smart!'" Mr Trump said in his tweet.

Senior Russian figures have threatened to meet any US strikes with a response.

President Bashar al-Assad's government denies mounting a chemical attack on the rebel-held town of Douma.

In one his tweets on Wednesday, Mr Trump called the Syrian leader a "gas killing animal".

In another, he painted a dark picture of US-Russia relations but said it did not have to be that way.

The US, UK and France have agreed to work together and are believed to be preparing for a military strike in response to the alleged chemical attack at the weekend.

What happened in Douma?
Opposition activists and rescuers say government aircraft dropped bombs filled with toxic chemicals on Douma.

The Syrian-American Medical Society (Sams), which operates in rebel-held areas, and local aid workers said more than 500 people had been treated for symptoms "indicative of exposure to a chemical agent".

On Wednesday, the UN's World Health Organization demanded access to verify reports from its partners, which include Sams, that 70 people had died - including 43 who showed "symptoms consistent with exposure to highly toxic chemicals".

A team from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) is due to deploy to Syria "shortly" to determine whether banned weapons were used.

Douma, the last major rebel stronghold near the capital Damascus, was under renewed assault from Syrian and Russian forces last week.

Rebels have now been evacuating the town under an agreement involving the Russian military.

What is Russia's position?
It has described the reports of the chemical attack as a "provocation" designed to justify Western intervention against its ally.

It said on Wednesday that samples taken from the site had not revealed any chemical substances.

Russia also said it would deploy military police to Douma on Thursday and that the situation there had stabilised.

Several senior Russian figures have warned of a Russian response to a US attack, with Alexander Zasypkin, Moscow's ambassador to Lebanon, repeating on Wednesday a warning by the head of the military that missiles would be shot down and their launch sites targeted if they threatened the lives of Russian personnel.

Also on Wednesday, Russian foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova asked whether the aim of Western strikes might be "to quickly remove the traces of the provocation... [so] international inspectors will have nothing to look for in terms of evidence".

Addressing new ambassadors in Moscow, President Vladimir Putin said the world was becoming more chaotic. He said he hoped common sense would prevail and that the situation would stabilise.

Mr Putin said Russia would "keep all its international obligations in full".

What happens next?
On Tuesday, Mr Trump cancelled his first official trip to Latin America so he could focus on Syria.

That decision suggests the US response may involve a larger military operation than a limited strike, says the BBC's Barbara Plett Usher in Washington.

On Wednesday, Defence Secretary James Mattis said the US was still assessing the chemical attack and that the US military stood ready "to provide military options if they are appropriate as the president determines".

French President Emmanuel Macron said any strikes would "not target allies of the [Syrian] regime or attack anyone, but rather attack the regime's chemical capabilities".

But The Times newspaper reports that the UK's Prime Minister Theresa May has urged Mr Trump to provide more evidence of the suspected chemical attack.

A US Navy guided-missile destroyer, the USS Donald Cook, is in the Mediterranean Sea.

There are reports that Russia has withdrawn battleships from its naval base in the Syrian port city of Tartus:

What is the UN doing?
On Tuesday the UN Security Council failed to approve moves to set up an inquiry into the alleged attack on Douma.

As permanent members of the council, Russia and the US vetoed each other's proposals to set up independent investigations.

The US-drafted resolution would have allowed investigators to apportion blame for the suspected attack, while Russia's version would have left that to the Security Council.

The OPCW's fact-finding mission will not seek to establish who was responsible for the attack.
Very worrying turn of events. It's not like I approve of chemical weapon usage but tough talk and sabre rattling over twitter could lead us down a very bad road.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Ace Pace » 2018-04-12 01:49am

I'm going to go with what the local home front command says, which is nothing, before anyone becomes really worried.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2018-04-17 09:52am

It's no use debating a moron; they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

Just because you have the attention span of a fruit fly doesn't mean the rest of us are so encumbered.

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by LaCroix » 2018-04-19 05:44am

According to some news I heard in the radio, Trump's tweets about the attack gave Syria enough forewarning to evacuate all sites almost completely, including material and stockpiles. Thus, the effect of the bombing is said to be measured in ammo used to try stopping the missiles, and the damage to buildings...

Opsec. More than just a pretty word...
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Patroklos » 2018-04-19 07:58am

You might want to stop and think about what might have happened if the strikes had been unannounced and a bunch of Russians got killed. Don't be a dunce, this was all about show just like the last time when Obama did his version (news flash, all the chemical weapons were not destoroyed/removed...) and not actual impact. We get to say we did something, no Russians get killed, no WWIII. You will note removing chemical weapons capability is missing from that list.

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Simon_Jester » 2018-04-19 08:09am

I don't think we can chalk this one up to Trump being "stupid like a fox."

If a bunch of Russians had gotten killed, realistically there still would have been no World War Three, because the Russians are not fucking ridiculous and stupid.
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by LaCroix » 2018-04-19 09:01am

Patroklos wrote:
2018-04-19 07:58am
You might want to stop and think about what might have happened if the strikes had been unannounced and a bunch of Russians got killed. Don't be a dunce, this was all about show just like the last time when Obama did his version (news flash, all the chemical weapons were not destoroyed/removed...) and not actual impact. We get to say we did something, no Russians get killed, no WWIII. You will note removing chemical weapons capability is missing from that list.
In other words, Trump was just spending a lot of money to distract from internal news cycle, and the strikes should not have been done, at all. They were still conducted, even though everybody knew they woulddn't do any damage, and hoping that the Russians would not retaliate as they threatened to, and luckily it worked out that way.

So chemical weapons were not destroyed, Assad not hurt, War not impacted, US military arms producers got richer, Trump got a brief distraction, and we all still live because Putin was as clever as we hoped he would be.

You really want to argue for this was the GENIOUS plan? :roll:
Instead of Trump just wagging his tongue too much?

I seriously doubt that.
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2018-04-19 09:16am

LaCroix wrote:
2018-04-19 05:44am
According to some news I heard in the radio, Trump's tweets about the attack gave Syria enough forewarning to evacuate all sites almost completely, including material and stockpiles. Thus, the effect of the bombing is said to be measured in ammo used to try stopping the missiles, and the damage to buildings...

Opsec. More than just a pretty word...
As I said here, at least Theresa May had enough of a clue not to forewarn the enemy- even though her efforts in that regard were ultimately futile thanks to Trump shooting his mouth off. It's clear from the way the rest of Parliament reacted to not being consulted that their concept of operational security isn't any better than his.
It's no use debating a moron; they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

Just because you have the attention span of a fruit fly doesn't mean the rest of us are so encumbered.

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"The Delta Fyler [sic] isn't even a shuttle craft" -HuskerJay69
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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Civil War Man » 2018-04-19 10:15am

EnterpriseSovereign wrote:
2018-04-19 09:16am
As I said here, at least Theresa May had enough of a clue not to forewarn the enemy- even though her efforts in that regard were ultimately futile thanks to Trump shooting his mouth off. It's clear from the way the rest of Parliament reacted to not being consulted that their concept of operational security isn't any better than his.
Not necessarily. I don't know the details of their complaints, but if they were upset about not being briefed at all about the upcoming strikes, that's not automatically as reckless and broadcasting your intentions over Twitter. Maybe if they wanted to debate the details of the strikes on the floor of Parliament, but presumably the briefing would have taken place behind closed doors, the way governments typically discuss sensitive topics.

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Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Vendetta » 2018-04-20 07:06am

More likely it would be a debate and vote on whether to take military action in Syria with no operational details, and a yes or no vote at the end.

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