Elon Musk faces backlash over Trump.

[MKSheppard]

I'm sad that one of the most successful African-American businessmen in the US is being attacked over politics; especially after all he's done for us:

• Increasingly affordable electric cars
• Landing FUCKING ROCKETS BACK ON EARTH

Link

It looks like Elon Musk's decision to join U.S. President Donald Trump's economic advisory group may be affecting Tesla Motors' vehicle sales.

Following the move, several Tesla enthusiasts have canceled their reservations for the Model 3 sedan. These cancelations are not widespread yet but they do pose the question on how political affiliations can severely affect businesses.

Before Donald Trump's election, Musk had indicated that he was against the former being elected as the President of the country.

"He doesn't seem to have the sort of character that reflects well on the United States," Musk had said in an interview.

However, after being elected as POTUS, Trump appointed Musk to serve on his Strategic and Policy Forum and the business magnate readily accepted the post. This move may have rubbed people the wrong way and possibly led to the sudden cancelations of their reservations for the Model 3.

Irate people took to Twitter to voice their thoughts and share that they have canceled the reservation for the sedan.

Reconsider working for this person. https://t.co/yFghApTQxv
— Thomas H. Ptáček (@tqbf) 30 January 2017

The Model 3 reservation has a $1000 refundable deposit and is Tesla's first mid-priced sedan which is all-electric. Tesla will begin production of the sedan later this year.

How Many People Have Canceled?
It is currently unclear just how many people have canceled their reservations due to Musk's association with President Trump. Tesla has nearly a year long backlog for preorders of the car.

That people are canceling their reservations owing to the association is an assumption. Musk's association with President Trump potentially having a huge impact on Tesla's revenue is based on speculations alone. Therefore, it is understandable that the company has not come out with an official statement or commented on the Model 3 cancelations.

However, it must also be mentioned that Musk has voiced concern and in a sense criticized President Trump's executive order to restrict immigration from seven Muslim majority countries. This suggests that Musk is not afraid of letting his opinions be known even if they differ from those of POTUS.

Currently, Tesla Motors and Elon Musk do not seem to be worried about these cancelations as they cannot be categorized as widespread. However, it brings to the forefront similar issues that other businesses may also face in the coming months.

Discrimination due to Musk's political preferences may indicate an underlying issue the whole country is facing due to people's differing opinions, views and political affiliations.

There is no definite answer as to how these issues will be resolved or when, but only time will tell if Musk's involvement with the President could impact not only sales, but also the brand image he has been able to create so far.

[Shroom Man 777]

As I said on Fishbook:

OTOH Musk was also a big Hillary funder right?

The admin, irredisregardingless of who's in charge, might've offered Musk a role to influence things and Musk might've thought his advice would do good... so why not? I mean, assuming Musk is acting in good faith and otherwise doesn't condone the BS that's there. (And ignoring Musk's buddy, Thiel, who was pretty enthusiastic with supporting Trump, as far as I know.)

Musk has space rockets so maybe he thinks he can go "look I have space rockets" and get listened to.

I had space rockets I would presume anyone would listen to me.

And he has Thiel to back him up. I wonder if Musk backed Hillary and Thiel backed Trump (more enthusiastically this guy) so that either way they still get $$$

[The Romulan Republic]

Good that he's getting backlash. As much as I might admire Musk's technological achievements, Trump is a loathsome and evil man who should be being treated as persona non grata, subject to constant obstruction and boycotts to prevent him from further dismantling democracy and rule of law in America, and threatening us with global conflict. Working with him only legitimizes, normalizes, and enables him.

I don't give Musk a pass on that just because he builds space ships.

Edit: As an aside, I'll add that while I know only the very broad strokes of Musk's political history, I have long felt that space advocacy was too closely aligned politically with the Right for my comfort.

[Imperial528]

When I heard Musk had accepted the offer, I interpreted it as a method of damage control from Musk, since several of his interests (actually fighting climate change, solar power, space travel, etc) are threatened by a GOP administration. Unlike politicians however he may be able to influence Trump since he possesses the one thing Trump has ever given an ounce of respect, i.e. money, and considerably more of it than Trump has.

Personally I expect Musk to piss of Trump by trying to actually negotiate in good faith with him and expecting it in return, something that Trump has never been accustomed to doing, thus resulting in Musk being removed from the advisory group.

[The Romulan Republic]

And that's the problem.

Some people have made the mistake of thinking that by working with Trump, they can moderate and control him.

They can't.

Trump will do whatever he feels like, which is generally what profits him or strokes his ego. And when he does listen to others, the sane, otherwise decent voices around him will always be outnumbered by the plutocrats, white nationalists, theocrats, etc., and by the people who are willing to just tell Trump what he wants to hear.

Anyone trying to work with him with good intentions are letting themselves be played- they're normalizing and legitimizing his authoritarianism and illegal acts, providing him political cover and undermining the opposition to him, and are unlikely to get much in response except the loss of their own integrity and reputations.

[Flagg]

Edit: As an aside, I'll add that while I know only the very broad strokes of Musk's political history, I have long felt that space advocacy was too closely aligned politically with the Right for my comfort.

That's not really true unless it's either some kind of system that could be turned into a weapon or Newt Gingrich has a mini-stroke like when he wanted to make the moon the 51st state.

The truth is that both sides, almost always in an election year, state grand plans for doing this or going there and all within 20 years and it never happens. Why? Because the I-4 corridor (the areas surrounding interstate 4, where a lot of NASA employees and contractors live) and Brevard county (my old stomping grounds ) where the Kennedy Space Center is. So it's all about getting a massive voting blok to vote for them.

[Simon_Jester]

Good that he's getting backlash. As much as I might admire Musk's technological achievements, Trump is a loathsome and evil man who should be being treated as persona non grata, subject to constant obstruction and boycotts to prevent him from further dismantling democracy and rule of law in America, and threatening us with global conflict. Working with him only legitimizes, normalizes, and enables him.

I don't give Musk a pass on that just because he builds space ships.

Edit: As an aside, I'll add that while I know only the very broad strokes of Musk's political history, I have long felt that space advocacy was too closely aligned politically with the Right for my comfort.

This is mostly because the American left has utterly, utterly failed to voluntarily involve itself with space advocacy at all since the 1980s. Clinton and Obama both tended to 'kick the can down the road' on space projects, and tended to cut the budget for them, even if that resulted in severely compromised outcomes for the space program.

NASA doesn't get proper love from either party, and private enterprise space travel organizations are so much a right-wing darling that they'll imprint on someone like Elon Musk and say "Ma-ma!" for reasons that are not Musk's fault.

If a normal Republican had taken office in the election of 2016, and wanted Elon Musk on his advisory council, I'd say "go for it." The problem is that Trump acts like an aspiring tyrant, and opposing tyranny is a duty of all American citizens that comes ahead of many other things.

Including space.

Now, if Musk actually intends to try to negotiate with Trump in good faith and work to actually moderate his administration, I suspect that he's in for a lot of disappointment. If I don't turn out to be wrong, I hope he acts on his disappointments and airs them accordingly, rather than committing the classic blunder of trying to hang on and 'moderate' a fundamentally broken regime.

[The Romulan Republic]

I pretty much agree, with the addition that, like Flagg said, Republicans don't actually do that much for space when in power either.

[Adam Reynolds]

Elon Musk is a pragmatist at heart, who is willing to deal with politics like this to get what he sees as necessary. More importantly his companies are highly dependent upon government support. Based on this quote, he is not actually a Trump supporter:

You are missing the point. This is something we need to strive for and the more voices of reason that the President hears, the better. Simply attacking him will achieve nothing. Are you aware of a single case where Trump bowed to protests or media attacks? Better that there are open channels of communication.

[The Romulan Republic]

I get that, but I might counter with "Are you aware of a single case where Trump has acted against his own prejudices and self-interest in the face of reasonable persuasion?", with just as much merit.

Edit: I can maybe buy that Musk is basically well-meaning here, or at least not malevolent in his goals. But if so, then I'm sorry to say that I think he's fooling himself, and he's getting played.

[Imperial528]

I can't dig up the source at the moment, but I have read that when faced with issues he has never thought about in any capacity (i.e. most of them) Trump tends to listen to the last person who talked to him about it in any manner that wasn't directly hostile to him. So Musk may be attempting to leverage that trait, though I expect he will find it futile in the long run given the other people Trump surrounds himself with.

[The Romulan Republic]

And that's the other big problem here: given who backed him and how he came to power, the insane and/or evil voices around Trump will likely always outnumber the reasonable voices.

[Adam Reynolds]

I don't actually think he will accomplish much either, but it is at least worth trying to make a positive impact.

[K. A. Pital]

Musk is just another capitalistic capitalist.

It is their class, who generally have the reigns of power, but they are fighting among themselves to survive in the darwinian battle for money. The big fight that happened with the Trump election was the fight between oligarchic groups for who will milk the most cash from the monstrous machine. Trump represented a different oligarch clique (the oilers, the "old money", etc.), Hillary's was tech + military-industrial + financials, but Trump also won a few hearts among the technology moguls straight away. And he will keep having more and more "listeners" among the bourgeois just because now he and his gang are officially top dogs at the government.

Let us not pretent that we're talking about normal human relations here, someone hoping to achieve something "human" and "decent". These are sick relations, warped by capital, by the need to make money, big money.

So even if Musk publicly licked Trump's ass one morning to the surprise of many detractors, it would just be normal for our diseased world.

[Zaune]

And that's the problem.

Some people have made the mistake of thinking that by working with Trump, they can moderate and control him.

They can't.

Trump will do whatever he feels like, which is generally what profits him or strokes his ego. And when he does listen to others, the sane, otherwise decent voices around him will always be outnumbered by the plutocrats, white nationalists, theocrats, etc., and by the people who are willing to just tell Trump what he wants to hear.

Anyone trying to work with him with good intentions are letting themselves be played- they're normalizing and legitimizing his authoritarianism and illegal acts, providing him political cover and undermining the opposition to him, and are unlikely to get much in response except the loss of their own integrity and reputations.

You do realise that if he won't listen to someone like Elon Musk, he sure as hell isn't going to listen to boycotters and protest marchers and any other form of peaceful dissent, right?

[General Zod]

Trump isn't going to care about protestors unless they start disrupting his businesses.

[Zaune]

I'd go a step further than that, and say he's not going to care until they start disrupting his businesses in ways he can't resolve without help from the National Guard. I don't know how castle-doctrine laws apply to commercial premises but at this point I think it's not if but when a bunch of protestors get shot dead for 'trespassing'.

[Simon_Jester]

The Republican party at large will start caring if there are protests in the states that went for Trump.

I can say with great confidence that very few Republicans actually want to live in a Trumpocratic dictatorship.

That means the basic form of American democratic government still counts for them. Which means the Republicans do NOT want to lose their foothold in swing states.

They have the White House because of extremely narrow margins of support in places like Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. They have the Senate by a narrow margin; a few seats flipping is all it takes. The House, I don't feel qualified to analyze right this second and I don't have the time to dig deeper.

Protestors in, say, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin are going to have a lot more impact than protestors in California and Maryland.

[Lord Revan]

I'd say large amounts protestors in traditionally Red States is what matters to the "lets make trump a puppet dictator" republicans, change of votes in swing states could be dealt with voter suppression as long as red states remain bright red but red states start to become swing states that's something they'd worry about because that would mean that the useful idiots they depend on aren't doing their job.

[The Romulan Republic]

And that's the problem.

Some people have made the mistake of thinking that by working with Trump, they can moderate and control him.

They can't.

Trump will do whatever he feels like, which is generally what profits him or strokes his ego. And when he does listen to others, the sane, otherwise decent voices around him will always be outnumbered by the plutocrats, white nationalists, theocrats, etc., and by the people who are willing to just tell Trump what he wants to hear.

Anyone trying to work with him with good intentions are letting themselves be played- they're normalizing and legitimizing his authoritarianism and illegal acts, providing him political cover and undermining the opposition to him, and are unlikely to get much in response except the loss of their own integrity and reputations.

You do realise that if he won't listen to someone like Elon Musk, he sure as hell isn't going to listen to boycotters and protest marchers and any other form of peaceful dissent, right?

Of course I do.

The best the protesters can realistically hope for is that he ignores them, rather than deciding to reenact Tiananmen Square.

But the point of the protests, to me, isn't winning Trump's sympathy. Its about putting pressure on Republicans who may not be entirely happy with Trump (they do exist) to ditch him, and on Democrats to show a fucking spine in standing up to him. About expressing solidarity with Trump's victims. And about rallying and organizing people to campaign against Trump in future elections.

Whereas boycotts are more about hurting Trump financially, and discouraging other businesses (like Musk's) from collaborating with and enabling him.

That's my take on it, anyway.

Of course, it doesn't escape my notice that your post was also a very thinly-veiled jab at the effectiveness of peaceful dissent specifically. I know your views on the matter, and you know mine- namely that we are not at a point where such acts would constitute the "lesser evil", that you are supporting terrorism, and that you are either a monster or a fool if you think that would in any way help the situation. But as that is not the topic of this thread, and I doubt you will be persuaded by reason, their is probably little point in discussing it. Just don't think you can sneak an argument on that point below the radar, as it were.

[Zaune]

All I was trying to do is point out the apparent contradiction in the fact you're convinced Trump won't listen to anyone who doesn't tell him what to hear -which you may well be right about, for what that's worth- and your stubborn refusal to even consider the possibility that mere civil disobedience isn't going to cut it this time.

[The Romulan Republic]

As I just said, the point of protest isn't (or shouldn't be) to persuade Trump. The Orange Rapist is unlikely, at best, to listen to anyone who doesn't make him money or stroke his ego. Their are several possible purposes to protesting, as I described above, but as far as persuading people in power, the ones you want to reach are those in positions of power (particularly Congress, but also state governors and legislators, and local governments) who can undermine and obstruct Trump's actions (and in Congress's case, overturn his decrees and impeach him). Those who are susceptible to public opinion, and not all raging narcissists. Remember that in the Senate, you only have to flip three Republicans to block Trump on something, and that the Republican Party is not united in its love of Trump. If enough of their own voters turn on him, they'll probably drop him- at least a few will.

To tie it back to the topic of the thread, this is what Musk's mistake is, and the mistake of others like him. They're trying to talk to the wrong person. Trump is not amenable to reason, and frankly, he doesn't deserve the effort. He is a lost cause. They should be directing their efforts elsewhere if they want to actually accomplish anything other than the loss of their own reputation and self-respect. Which is why I am so critical of Musk's efforts here. By working with Trump, he's not persuading Trump. He's legitimizing him, dividing the efforts of the potential opposition, and making it harder for the rest of us.

I imagine I feel much the same way about him that striking Union members do about people who cross the picket line.