Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

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Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

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http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/loc ... 38593.html
Family of Syrians Deported From Philadelphia Supported Donald Trump

Sarmad Assali's relatives, who are all Orthodox Christians, had visas and proof of green cards, the family said.

By David Chang, Alicia Victoria Lozano and Gabe Gutierrez

A Pennsylvania family fighting to have their relatives return to the United States after they were detained at Philadelphia International Airport and sent back overseas under the immigration order told "NBC Nightly News" that they supported Donald Trump for president.
“I understand he wants to make America safe,” Sarmad Assali said. "We're all on with this. I definitely want to be in a safe place. But people need us and we need to be there for them."
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Assali and her husband, Dr. Ghassan Assali, who has a dentistry practice and received his degree from New York University, are originally from Syria but have been living in the United States for more than 20 years.
Assali's two brothers, their wives and their two children initiated their immigration attempts in 2003 while living in Syria. In December 2016, they were approved to join Assali and her husband in Allentown after the couple bought and furnished a home for them.
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But early Saturday morning, after they landed at Philadelphia International Airport, Assali's relatives were detained. They were then sent on an 18-hour flight back overseas.
The detainment and deportation occurred only hours after the president signed an executive order that immediately restricted travel from seven predominantly Muslim countries, temporarily halted the refugee program and indefinitely blocked refugees from Syria.
Syrian Family Denied Return to Pa. Files Suit
"Two security guards were waiting for them," Assali said. "They took them. They said, 'Are you Syrians?' They said, 'Yes.' They said, 'Come with us.'"
Assali's relatives, who are all Orthodox Christians, had visas and proof of green cards. The six Syrians were told they had to go back on the next flight and return to the Middle East, according to Assali. The next day, White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus announced that the order would not extend to green card holders.
Trump's Immigration Order Playing Well to Fans Around Nation
They went on an 18-hour flight back to Doha and are currently in Damascus, according to the Assali family. One of Assali's relatives has heart problems and was given oxygen.
Tawfik Assali, the 21-year-old son of one of the deported Syrians, told NBC News he came to the United States three years ago and was waiting for his mother to join him.
Family of Syrians Sent Back From Philly: This Is Not America
"I was one hour away from hugging her," he said. "Seeing her."
Hours after the six Syrians were sent back home, a federal judge granted an injunction on the order in response to a request filed by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and other legal organizations. While the stay blocks anyone with a valid visa who is being held at airports from being deported, it only applies to those currently within the U.S., not anyone who tries to come to the U.S. going forward.
6 Syrians Detained, Then Sent on Flight Home at PHL Airport
The six Syrians remain in Damascus. Joseph Hohenstein, an attorney for the Assali family, told NBC10 Monday they were denied a resolution that would bring them back to Allentown. Lawyers from the ACLU of Pennsylvania, HIAS Pennsylvania and the Philadelphia Chapter of the American Immigration Lawyers Association filed a federal lawsuit Tuesday on behalf of the families.
A crowdfunding campaign has been created for the family, which liquidated its assets in order to pay for visas, security screenings and other legal documents that were issued before their planned departure to the U.S.
5,000 Demonstrators Gather at PHL to Protest Travel Ban
“This poor family sold everything and used those funds for this trip and now that’s gone,” said Joseph Hohenstein, an attorney who is helping on the case. “If they ever make it here they will be coming with not a penny to their names.”
On Sunday, Ghassan Assali appeared alongside Gov. Tom Wolf decrying Trump’s executive order.
"America is not America," Assali said. "Like ISIS now, they ask, 'Are you Christian? What do you believe?' And if they are not saying what they believe, they kick you out and they cut your head off. So America, same thing. They ask you are you Muslim? You've got to change your religion. Thank you."


His son, Joseph, is a sophomore at Temple University studying biology and Spanish. The family lives in a well-established Syrian and Lebanese community in Allentown that dates back more than 100 years, Hohenstein said.
The community is predominately Christian and houses several churches.
US: A Nation of Immigrants, but Ambivalent About Immigration
Despite what happened to the Assalis, not everyone in their community disagrees with Trump. NBC News spoke with Rev. Anthony Sabbagh, an immigrant who voted for Trump partly because of his promise to make national security a top priority.
"I admire a president that protects his people and tries to make America safe," Sabbagh said.
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In her interview with NBC News, Sarmad Assali had a question for Trump.
"Why?" she asked. "Where is your human side to send somebody to a war zone?"
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Editor's Note: A conversation on Wednesday with an attorney for the Assali family clarified they did not vote for President Donald Trump, although they could legally vote and did support him.

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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Their was nothing democratic about Trumpolini's win. The Republicans suppress the vote, get illegal last-minute intervention from the FBI and the aid of a foreign tyrant, and they still lose the popular vote by almost three million votes. And then it doesn't matter, because the Electoral College fails in its one actually positive purpose (to prevent the election of someone like Trump) and appoints him President over the will of the people.

Democratic my ass.

The best thing you can say about Trump's win is that it was legal. Maybe. Democratic it most certainly was not.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

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It was as democratic as any other election in US history.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Thanas wrote:It was as democratic as any other election in US history.
Most elections don't have blatant interference by the FBI targeting one candidate. Or blatant interference by a foreign government on behalf of one party.

If you mean that all American elections are undemocratic because of the Electoral College, then sure, you can make that case. Although even then, I would say that the result of this election happened to be particularly undemocratic in its outcome, because the winner did not match the winner of the popular vote. At least in most elections, an undemocratic system still manages to produce a democratic result when the EC matches the popular vote.

So yeah, I refuse to dignify Trump's election with the word "democratic".
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by Thanas »

What you refuse to do or are willing to do does not have any impact on the reality. It certainly was a democratic election. Press statements do not make such an impact as to render a whole election undemocratic. The people made a choice.
Or blatant interference by a foreign government on behalf of one party.
That is fucking hilarious coming from a citizen of the USA.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by Flagg »

Honestly? Cry me a river, when you support a monster and your family is eaten by it you don't get to play the victim.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by Flagg »

Thanas wrote:What you refuse to do or are willing to do does not have any impact on the reality. It certainly was a democratic election. Press statements do not make such an impact as to render a whole election undemocratic. The people made a choice.
Yes, a small minority of "the people" made their choice. While having less votes than the other 1/4 of "the people". But because America's Presidential voting scheme is deeply flawed the minority of voters who chose a half polished turd won.
Or blatant interference by a foreign government on behalf of one party.
That is fucking hilarious coming from a citizen of the USA.
And just because it's hypocritical doesn't make it untrue. Especially when it affects politics on a global level with the possibility of affecting the people of the entire planet to various degrees.
Last edited by Flagg on 2017-02-03 07:42am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I don't see how it is hypocritical for me to express that view, unless I have previously condoned such actions by America. Not a big fan of collective guilt on the basis of nationality here.
Thanas wrote:What you refuse to do or are willing to do does not have any impact on the reality. It certainly was a democratic election. Press statements do not make such an impact as to render a whole election undemocratic. The people made a choice.
No, the people did not choose Trump. That is the entire fucking point. Three million more Americans chose Hillary Clinton, and neither won an actual majority of the vote. This is objective mathematical fact.
That is fucking hilarious coming from a citizen of the USA.
I take it you are accusing me of hypocrisy for objecting to Russian interference? Even though I never expressed support for the US interfering in such a manner in other countries' elections? After all, I am American, and therefore I am personally guilty of every bad thing America's government has ever done, and have no right to object to anything bad another government does to us, regardless of my actual beliefs or actions? Have I got that right?

I mean, you appear to literally be saying "You have no right to express this opinion, because of your nationality." That is not only bigotry, but an ad hominem fallacy, as you are attacking the speaker rather than the argument.

I'd also hazard a guess that this is why you're so insistent on claiming Trump is the choice of the American people- because in your mind, it justifies holding everyone born with an American citizenship collectively guilty for everything Trump does, regardless of their individual beliefs or actions.

Also, "Someone else did it too" is not and will never be a defence for an immoral act.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by Flagg »

Thanas wrote:It was as democratic as any other election in US history.
Not really. Obama won the popular vote twice, Bush once, Clinton twice, Bush sr once, Ronnie Ray-Gun twice. That's Democratic.

Bush in 2000 was appointed by a partisan SCOTUS once while losing the popular vote, and President Pussygrabber got more electoral votes while the will of the majority was ignored. That's undemocratic but legal because our system of electing a POTUS is equatable to a dumpster fire.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Flagg wrote:
Thanas wrote:It was as democratic as any other election in US history.
Not really. Obama won the popular vote twice, Bush once, Clinton twice, Bush sr once, Ronnie Ray-Gun twice. That's Democratic.

Bush in 2000 was appointed by a partisan SCOTUS once while losing the popular vote, and President Pussygrabber got more electoral votes while the will of the majority was ignored. That's undemocratic but legal because our system of electing a POTUS is equatable to a dumpster fire.
This.

Another fun little fact, incidentally: the Democrats have won six of the last seven popular votes.

Its almost like the Trumpers don't represent the will of the American people. :roll:
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

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A) It is fucking hilarious to claim intereference from a foreign power makes it undemocratic especially since the scale of the interference was not decisive - in fact it seems pretty clear nobody actually knows on what scale it should be rated or whether it had an impact. Is it to be rated lower than the main opposition party being feted and secretly financed by the white house, with the USA also buying up newspapers to write in favour of it? All signs point to yes and even though that financing from the White House did not lead to several elections in Germany being declared undemocratic.

B) So he did not win the popular vote. Boohooo. The popular vote does not matter in a representative system like your electoral college. If you disagree with that, then change the constitution. But this was the chosen system that has been in place for over 200 years. There is a difference between direct democracy and representative democracy.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by Flagg »

Thanas wrote:A) It is fucking hilarious to claim intereference from a foreign power makes it undemocratic especially since the scale of the interference was not decisive - in fact it seems pretty clear nobody actually knows on what scale it should be rated or whether it had an impact. Is it to be rated lower than the main opposition party being feted and secretly financed by the white house, with the USA also buying up newspapers to write in favour of it? All signs point to yes and even though that financing from the White House did not lead to several elections in Germany being declared undemocratic.
I said it's not Democratic because it doesn't represent the will of the majority of voters who voted for Clinton.
B) So he did not win the popular vote. Boohooo. The popular vote does not matter in a representative system like your electoral college. If you disagree with that, then change the constitution. But this was the chosen system that has been in place for over 200 years. There is a difference between direct democracy and representative democracy.
Yeah, I'm on record as wanting to do away with the Electoral college, so what's your point? Hell, I fucking acknowledged that.

And if you want to go for the "hurr hurr American citizens commenting on foreign interference is hilarious" then I'll do you one better and suggest that a German citizen commenting on deportations is hilarious. And I don't give a damn if you're offended, turnabout is fair play especially when you're rubbing our dumpster fire of a system in the faces of people who oppose that system and are 180 degrees from agreeing with anything President Pussygrabber has done or will do.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Thanas wrote:A) It is fucking hilarious to claim intereference from a foreign power makes it undemocratic especially since the scale of the interference was not decisive - in fact it seems pretty clear nobody actually knows on what scale it should be rated or whether it had an impact. Is it to be rated lower than the main opposition party being feted and secretly financed by the white house, with the USA also buying up newspapers to write in favour of it? All signs point to yes and even though that financing from the White House did not lead to several elections in Germany being declared undemocratic.
The foreign interference is one of several points I listed as to why the election was not fair, not democratic, and not representative of the will of the American people. The effect is cumulative.

While the Russian interference (and likely Republican collusion in it) outrages me, I daresay the FBI bullshit, coming so shortly before election day, had a bigger impact.

However, while its true that the exact extent of its effect is unknown, for precisely that reason, it is false of you to assert that it was not decisive. The election was extraordinarily close. A couple hundred thousand votes spread across three states, and this would be a much happier world. Could those couple hundred thousand votes have been swayed by the Russian hacks and propaganda? Possibly. Their is probably no way to ever really know.
B) So he did not win the popular vote. Boohooo. The popular vote does not matter in a representative system like your electoral college. If you disagree with that, then change the constitution. But this was the chosen system that has been in place for over 200 years. There is a difference between direct democracy and representative democracy.
I am aware of the distinction between direct and representative democracy, thank you, but even in a representative democracy, the winner is generally the representative who's side got the most votes, yes? If their is little or no connection between the number of votes cast and the result of the election, if the result is the outright opposite of what the most people voted for, I cannot see how it could meet any reasonable definition of "democratic". Keep in mind also that the EC is specifically designed to skew elections in favour of rural states, effectively suppressing the vote of other states.

Legal, yes- I obviously don't deny that. But just because those are the rules doesn't make it fair, or democratic.

And in any case, it takes considerable mental gymnastics to argue that Trump represents the choice of the American people, as you claimed. It is, again, fact that Donald Trump got fewer votes, by a fairly wide margin.

Argument for the American people having chosen Trump: A group of our ancestors, back in the day when only well-off white men could vote, created a system that allowed Trump to win without the popular vote, and we haven't managed to get rid of that system yet.

Argument against the American people having chosen Trump: Three million more of us voted for his opponent.

Which is the stronger argument?
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by Ralin »

The Romulan Republic wrote:Argument for the American people having chosen Trump: A group of our ancestors, back in the day when only well-off white men could vote, created a system that allowed Trump to win without the popular vote, and we haven't managed to get rid of that system yet.

Argument against the American people having chosen Trump: Three million more of us voted for his opponent.

Which is the stronger argument?
The first one. Them's the rules and it's been that way for centuries. If the ~American people~ felt strongly that this isn't how the system should work they've collectively had ample time to change it. Barring some efforts at the state level they have not. You agreed to those rules by choosing to vote in an election using them. You don't get to declare that they aren't legit when the system decides against you.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by Flagg »

Ralin wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Argument for the American people having chosen Trump: A group of our ancestors, back in the day when only well-off white men could vote, created a system that allowed Trump to win without the popular vote, and we haven't managed to get rid of that system yet.

Argument against the American people having chosen Trump: Three million more of us voted for his opponent.

Which is the stronger argument?
The first one. Them's the rules and it's been that way for centuries. If the ~American people~ felt strongly that this isn't how the system should work they've collectively had ample time to change it. Barring some efforts at the state level they have not. You agreed to those rules by choosing to vote in an election using them. You don't get to declare that they aren't legit when the system decides against you.
No, Thanas said "the American people" suggesting that a majority of Americans voted for and support President Pussygrabber, which is flat out untrue. I give him the benefit of the doubt and attribute the fact that he said something that flat out is not the case as hyperbole. But he kept moving the goalpost afterwards which is why I pointed out that he may not have moral superiority as a German citizen in a thread about deportations based on race/ethnicity/religion.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

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With regards to the FBI, IIRC during the summer they dropped the charges against Hillary Clinton days after Bill Clinton "just happened" to have a run in with the Attorney General at an airport and spent a good half hour making "small talk". That was a major scandal in and of itself IIRC.

What the FBI did was worse being so close to the election, but the Democrats far from innocent in this regard IMO.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by Flagg »

Tribble wrote:With regards to the FBI, IIRC during the summer they dropped the charges against Hillary Clinton days after Bill Clinton "just happened" to have a run in with the Attorney General at an airport and spent a good half hour making "small talk". That was a major scandal in and of itself IIRC.

What the FBI did was worse being so close to the election, but the Democrats far from innocent in this regard IMO.
Charges? There were charges filed against Hillary Clinton? All I remember were idiots and Bernie-Bots talking about "indictments" (aka charges) coming "any day now", which never happened. And if there were any "there there", you can bet your ass it would have come after she lost the election.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by Crazedwraith »

What Thanas said initially:
Thanas wrote:It was as democratic as any other election in US history.
is completely true. The election was as democratic or undemocratic as every preceeding one as it was done under the same rules and system. The difference between the electoral college vote and popular vote simply made it more obvious this time.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by Flagg »

Crazedwraith wrote:What Thanas said initially:
Thanas wrote:It was as democratic as any other election in US history.
is completely true. The election was as democratic or undemocratic as every preceeding one as it was done under the same rules and system. The difference between the electoral college vote and popular vote simply made it more obvious this time.
He also said "The people made a choice". What people? The alleged Russian hackers? (I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid on that one. It's a possibility and enough of one that the paper ballots should have been counted, though IMO they should be counted anyway, but I've not seen any evidence) The undemocratic electoral college? The 20-25% of Americans that voted for President Pussygrabber?

It also was most assuredly not done under the same rules and system. The voting rights act was scrapped by SCOTUS, and voter suppression was running rampant. So that's just totally untrue.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by Tribble »

Flagg wrote:
Tribble wrote:With regards to the FBI, IIRC during the summer they dropped the charges against Hillary Clinton days after Bill Clinton "just happened" to have a run in with the Attorney General at an airport and spent a good half hour making "small talk". That was a major scandal in and of itself IIRC.

What the FBI did was worse being so close to the election, but the Democrats far from innocent in this regard IMO.
Charges? There were charges filed against Hillary Clinton? All I remember were idiots and Bernie-Bots talking about "indictments" (aka charges) coming "any day now", which never happened. And if there were any "there there", you can bet your ass it would have come after she lost the election.
My apologies, "investigations".

Doesn't change my point that what Clinton and Co. during the course of the investigations was at best very poor optics, and at worst open interference. And of course, the fact that this whole mess started because of the way Clinton was dealing with her emails in the first place (not to mention what was in them).

As I stated, that does not excuse the FBI's conduct though.

Feel free to worship Saint Hillary all you want, but I'm calling her out as she is - an openly corrupt politician whom ordinarily shouldn't be anywhere near the Oval Office, let alone running for it... yet who still happened to be a better choice than her opponents. It's a rather sad state of affairs.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by FireNexus »

A Syrian Christian being drawn to an anti-Muslim candidate doesn't seem that unreasonable. Except he didn't catch that "Muslim" was code for "brown".
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by Crazedwraith »

Flagg wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:What Thanas said initially:
Thanas wrote:It was as democratic as any other election in US history.
is completely true. The election was as democratic or undemocratic as every preceeding one as it was done under the same rules and system. The difference between the electoral college vote and popular vote simply made it more obvious this time.
He also said "The people made a choice". What people? The alleged Russian hackers? (I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid on that one. It's a possibility and enough of one that the paper ballots should have been counted, though IMO they should be counted anyway, but I've not seen any evidence) The undemocratic electoral college? The 20-25% of Americans that voted for President Pussygrabber?
Yeah, I said 'initially' and quote the post I agreed with for a reason I'm with him for that point and not everything else he said in the thread.'
It also was most assuredly not done under the same rules and system. The voting rights act was scrapped by SCOTUS, and voter suppression was running rampant. So that's just totally untrue.
I will concede this as I am not familiar enough with the voting rights act and any voter suppression that may have been happening.

My base point though was 'you can't claim that this election was more or less democratic based on the fact the popular and electoral college didn't agree because that's always a possibility with how your system works. Just because the flaw was particularly obvious thus, it could always have happened'

Again, conceding all other factors.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by Flagg »

Tribble wrote:
Flagg wrote:
Tribble wrote:With regards to the FBI, IIRC during the summer they dropped the charges against Hillary Clinton days after Bill Clinton "just happened" to have a run in with the Attorney General at an airport and spent a good half hour making "small talk". That was a major scandal in and of itself IIRC.

What the FBI did was worse being so close to the election, but the Democrats far from innocent in this regard IMO.
Charges? There were charges filed against Hillary Clinton? All I remember were idiots and Bernie-Bots talking about "indictments" (aka charges) coming "any day now", which never happened. And if there were any "there there", you can bet your ass it would have come after she lost the election.
My apologies, "investigations".

Doesn't change my point that what Clinton and Co. during the course of the investigations was at best very poor optics, and at worst open interference. And of course, the fact that this whole mess started because of the way Clinton was dealing with her emails in the first place (not to mention what was in them).

As I stated, that does not excuse the FBI's conduct though.

Feel free to worship Saint Hillary all you want, but I'm calling her out as she is - an openly corrupt politician whom ordinarily shouldn't be anywhere near the Oval Office, let alone running for it... yet who still happened to be a better choice than her opponents. It's a rather sad state of affairs.
I despise Hillary Clinton. I don't know of any corruption as there were tons of investigations spurred on by Republicans and they all ended with no wrongdoing found on her part. The email shit was laughable considering all of the shit Dubya and his cronies got away with and that involved thousands of Americans and upwards of a million Iraqis killed. But she's most definitely a poster child of all the negatives associated with the bog standard politician.
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by Flagg »

Crazedwraith wrote:
Flagg wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:What Thanas said initially:


is completely true. The election was as democratic or undemocratic as every preceeding one as it was done under the same rules and system. The difference between the electoral college vote and popular vote simply made it more obvious this time.
He also said "The people made a choice". What people? The alleged Russian hackers? (I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid on that one. It's a possibility and enough of one that the paper ballots should have been counted, though IMO they should be counted anyway, but I've not seen any evidence) The undemocratic electoral college? The 20-25% of Americans that voted for President Pussygrabber?
Yeah, I said 'initially' and quote the post I agreed with for a reason I'm with him for that point and not everything else he said in the thread.'
It also was most assuredly not done under the same rules and system. The voting rights act was scrapped by SCOTUS, and voter suppression was running rampant. So that's just totally untrue.
I will concede this as I am not familiar enough with the voting rights act and any voter suppression that may have been happening.

My base point though was 'you can't claim that this election was more or less democratic based on the fact the popular and electoral college didn't agree because that's always a possibility with how your system works. Just because the flaw was particularly obvious thus, it could always have happened'

Again, conceding all other factors.
Yeah, the problem is that the Electoral college can only be done away with by way of a constitutional amendment which will only ever happen if a Democrat wins the electoral college and loses the popular vote. :lol:
We pissing our pants yet?
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Re: Trump voter in shock as family get deported from Trump's executive orders

Post by Simon_Jester »

Thanas wrote:It was as democratic as any other election in US history.
I'm going to have to go with TRR on this one. Usually, US elections don't feature federal agencies interfering in the election by releasing time bombs that depress turnout for one of the candidates right before election day. Usually, Vladimir Putin doesn't weigh in.
Thanas wrote:
Or blatant interference by a foreign government on behalf of one party.
That is fucking hilarious coming from a citizen of the USA.
If I say it's wrong when we do it, and I say it's wrong when other people do it, am I being hypocritical? Because that's not the definition of 'hypocrisy' in any dictionary I've ever seen. Or 'hilarious,' for that matter.
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