Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

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EnterpriseSovereign
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby EnterpriseSovereign » 2017-03-15 11:09am

It should be noted that in the wake of the recent NI assembly election result, The DUP remains the largest party in the Assembly, but by only one seat as Sinn Féin perform strongly. Certainly enough that some are making noises about unification.

I know that under current EU rules, Scotland cannot join in its current state, which is why Nicola Sturgeon wants to get that second referendum before Britain actually leaves the EU since I imagine it's a helluva lot easier to remain than it is to be forced to leave then rejoin.

I have to wonder if the process of article 50 would be derailed if this happened since the UK would effectively cease to exist as a political entity without Scotland and Northern Ireland. Certainly our passports would look very different!

I never thought I would actually side with Nicola Sturgeon on Scottish independence this time around :lol:
It's no use debating a moron; they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

Your claim of using a scientific equation is laughable when all you have done is butcher science to the point it makes 'The Core' look like a fucking documentary. Just because you have the attention span of a fruit fly doesn't mean the rest of us are so encumbered.

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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby Crazedwraith » 2017-03-15 11:14am

Pretty sure, that Scotland can't declare independence and stay in the EU. They'd have to rejoin as a separate entity and go to the back of the queue for it. They already floated the idea and got rebuffed by the EU just after the referendum.
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby The Xeelee » 2017-03-15 11:36am

I mean surely technically speaking the rest of the U.K. Could declare independence and become an independent state leaving it out of Europe whereas Scotland would then be the continuation of the U.K. And still in Europe haha.

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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-03-15 11:38am

Question: If Scotland leaves, will Elizabeth remain Queen of Scotland?
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby Elheru Aran » 2017-03-15 11:45am

The Romulan Republic wrote:Question: If Scotland leaves, will Elizabeth remain Queen of Scotland?


Presumably it would remain part of the British Commonwealth; Elizabeth for example is still sovereign of Canada and Australia IIRC, which are otherwise independent states. But there are Commonwealth nations which only pay lip service to the notion of British sovereignty, so honestly it depends on how they set things up.

Of course, the fact that there is no good legitimate successor to the Scottish royalty would help Elizabeth's case for remaining Queen of Scotland, especially if they went the Canada route.
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby Tribble » 2017-03-15 12:32pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Question: If Scotland leaves, will Elizabeth remain Queen of Scotland?


Presumably it would remain part of the British Commonwealth; Elizabeth for example is still sovereign of Canada and Australia IIRC, which are otherwise independent states. But there are Commonwealth nations which only pay lip service to the notion of British sovereignty, so honestly it depends on how they set things up.

Of course, the fact that there is no good legitimate successor to the Scottish royalty would help Elizabeth's case for remaining Queen of Scotland, especially if they went the Canada route.


That's an interesting question, I wonder how Scots feel about the Monarchy?

The SNP has stated that if Scotland votes to leave, once it is independent they will eventually have a vote on the Monarchy. My guess is that they would probably wait until Queen Elizabeth 2 dies - partially out of respect, but more likely because their chances of winning said referendum would presumably be much higher with Charles as King as he is nowhere near as popular.
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby K. A. Pital » 2017-03-15 01:22pm

The Xeelee wrote:Oh brexit. Of course we do the most economically self destructive thing ever right when I am about the enter the workforce. Anyone know some good countries that could use an immigrant programmer?

Germany.
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby Bedlam » 2017-03-15 03:10pm

Crazedwraith wrote:Pretty sure, that Scotland can't declare independence and stay in the EU. They'd have to rejoin as a separate entity and go to the back of the queue for it. They already floated the idea and got rebuffed by the EU just after the referendum.


Yep, it's certainly a chunk of why if it comes down to it I'll still be voting for the union. The vote is likely to be imagined as staying in the EU vs leaving when in reality it will be leaving vs leaving and maybe joining again at some point in the future, maybe.

Tribble wrote:That's an interesting question, I wonder how Scots feel about the Monarchy?


I can't speak for the whole nation but I've not seen it as being less monarchist than the rest of the UK, maybe a touch higher which might be something to do with Edinburgh being tourist heavy and the queens official residence in Scotland being in the city (I walk past it most days, the display of De Vinci anatomy sketches they had there a few years ago were very interesting), although from what I've been told her majesty isn't actually very keen on the place and hasn't spent a night there.

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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby Thanas » 2017-03-22 07:03am

In more "fun" news for the UK, the EU is now slowly beginning the tightening of the screws.

No more low-cost carriers for you, UK

EU chiefs have warned airlines including easyJet, Ryanair and British Airways that they will need to relocate their headquarters and sell off shares to European nationals if they want to continue flying routes within continental Europe after Brexit.

Executives at major carriers have been reminded during recent private meetings with officials that to continue to operate on routes across the continent – for instance, from Milan to Paris – they must have a significant base on EU territory and that a majority of their capital shares must be EU-owned.

The development, coming days before the triggering of article 50, potentially makes it more likely that the carriers will act to restructure, with economic consequences for the UK, including a loss of jobs.

The tough line from the EU may encourage the UK to reciprocate with its own nationality rules, which would leave EU-owned airlines facing equally difficult choices, potentially dampening their investment in the UK in the short term, although some may seek in time to establish their own British subsidiaries.

The ability of companies such as easyJet to operate on routes across the EU has been a major part of their business models, and there may be a renewed willingness among airlines to invest outside the UK to maintain market share.

Some airlines have already started to seek alternative headquarters, and to examine how they might ensure that their shareholding is majority-EU owned, possibly through the forced disinvesting of British shareholders.

But others have appeared, until now, to hold out hope that the European commission would be flexible on the rules in the current aviation agreement.

EU officials in the meetings were clear, however, about the rigidity of the rules, amid concerns at a senior EU level that too many in the aviation industry are in denial about the consequences of the UK’s decision to leave the bloc.

Representatives from easyJet, along with the British Airways owner IAG, Ryanair and the Tui Group, whose portfolio of airlines includes Thomson, met the EU’s Brexit taskforce last week. That followed a meeting the previous week between the taskforce and executives from Air France-KLM, Finnair, Lufthansa and SAS, as part of the EU’s efforts to engage with stakeholders.

Thomas van der Wijngaart, an aviation expert at the legal firm Clyde & Co, told the Guardian there could be significant economic consequences for the UK with airlines changing their financial and operating structures, and building a stronger presence on the continent.

“It might be that carriers choose to have domestic flights [on the continent] operated by their new European operating licence, which would probably mean a reduction in staff in the UK,” he warned.


Britain is a member of an aviation agreement based on 35 shared pieces of EU legislation, a common regulator in the European Aviation Safety Agency, and a court acting as a referee on the shared rules, the European court of justice (ECJ).

However, asked during a select committee hearing last week whether the UK would continue to be part of the “open-skies” agreement after Brexit, the secretary of state for exiting the EU, David Davis, said: “Not that agreement ... One would presume that would not apply to us – doesn’t say anything about whether there would be a successor.”

The industry holds out hope that the UK and the EU will be able to seal an early deal during article 50 negotiations that ensures that damage to the industry is limited.

However a hurdle on progress on a new agreement is Theresa May’s intention to remove the UK from the ECJ’s jurisdiction, which currently has the key role in adjudicating over conflicts between parties to the agreement.

A number of member states may also have interests in standing in the way of Britain’s attempts to strike a new deal. Spanish diplomats, for example, say they will not sign any international aviation agreement that recognises the airport on Gibraltar.

The UK could react to the imposition of EU ownership rules on airlines by developing ownership rules of its own, which could prevent carriers such as the Ireland-based Ryanair from flying UK domestic routes, as it does today.

EasyJet is establishing an EU operating company – on which an announcement is expected within weeks – so that it can obtain an EU air operating certificate. The company insists, however, it will continue to be headquartered in the UK.

It is currently 84%-owned by EU nationals, but this will drop to 49% after Brexit, provided the shares of founder Stelios Haji-Ioannou – who has dual UK and Cypriot nationality – are classed as EU-owned.

The Financial Times has reported that Haji-Ioannou’s shares are now classed as UK-owned to meet the airline’s own restrictions on ownership.

An easyJet spokesman said: “Like other European airlines, easyJet regularly engages with the UK and the EU on a wide range of issues which include the impact of Brexit on aviation. As this was a private meeting, we wouldn’t comment further on what was discussed.”

It has been reported that 60% of Dublin-registered Ryanair’s capital shares are owned by EU nationals, but this will be reduced to 40% once UK shareholders are excluded.

A spokesman for the airline said the company would “adapt”. However, the airline’s chief executive officer, Michael O’Leary, has already warned of the huge dangers to the industry of a “cliff-edge” Brexit, and criticised the “mildly lunatic optimism” of the British government.



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Less jobs for the UK, more jobs for Europe. Brexit, smartest choice ever made by a UK government.
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby Tribble » 2017-03-22 10:58am

Thanas wrote:In more "fun" news for the UK, the EU is now slowly beginning the tightening of the screws.

No more low-cost carriers for you, UK

EU chiefs have warned airlines including easyJet, Ryanair and British Airways that they will need to relocate their headquarters and sell off shares to European nationals if they want to continue flying routes within continental Europe after Brexit.

Executives at major carriers have been reminded during recent private meetings with officials that to continue to operate on routes across the continent – for instance, from Milan to Paris – they must have a significant base on EU territory and that a majority of their capital shares must be EU-owned.

The development, coming days before the triggering of article 50, potentially makes it more likely that the carriers will act to restructure, with economic consequences for the UK, including a loss of jobs.

The tough line from the EU may encourage the UK to reciprocate with its own nationality rules, which would leave EU-owned airlines facing equally difficult choices, potentially dampening their investment in the UK in the short term, although some may seek in time to establish their own British subsidiaries.

The ability of companies such as easyJet to operate on routes across the EU has been a major part of their business models, and there may be a renewed willingness among airlines to invest outside the UK to maintain market share.

Some airlines have already started to seek alternative headquarters, and to examine how they might ensure that their shareholding is majority-EU owned, possibly through the forced disinvesting of British shareholders.

But others have appeared, until now, to hold out hope that the European commission would be flexible on the rules in the current aviation agreement.

EU officials in the meetings were clear, however, about the rigidity of the rules, amid concerns at a senior EU level that too many in the aviation industry are in denial about the consequences of the UK’s decision to leave the bloc.

Representatives from easyJet, along with the British Airways owner IAG, Ryanair and the Tui Group, whose portfolio of airlines includes Thomson, met the EU’s Brexit taskforce last week. That followed a meeting the previous week between the taskforce and executives from Air France-KLM, Finnair, Lufthansa and SAS, as part of the EU’s efforts to engage with stakeholders.

Thomas van der Wijngaart, an aviation expert at the legal firm Clyde & Co, told the Guardian there could be significant economic consequences for the UK with airlines changing their financial and operating structures, and building a stronger presence on the continent.

“It might be that carriers choose to have domestic flights [on the continent] operated by their new European operating licence, which would probably mean a reduction in staff in the UK,” he warned.


Britain is a member of an aviation agreement based on 35 shared pieces of EU legislation, a common regulator in the European Aviation Safety Agency, and a court acting as a referee on the shared rules, the European court of justice (ECJ).

However, asked during a select committee hearing last week whether the UK would continue to be part of the “open-skies” agreement after Brexit, the secretary of state for exiting the EU, David Davis, said: “Not that agreement ... One would presume that would not apply to us – doesn’t say anything about whether there would be a successor.”

The industry holds out hope that the UK and the EU will be able to seal an early deal during article 50 negotiations that ensures that damage to the industry is limited.

However a hurdle on progress on a new agreement is Theresa May’s intention to remove the UK from the ECJ’s jurisdiction, which currently has the key role in adjudicating over conflicts between parties to the agreement.

A number of member states may also have interests in standing in the way of Britain’s attempts to strike a new deal. Spanish diplomats, for example, say they will not sign any international aviation agreement that recognises the airport on Gibraltar.

The UK could react to the imposition of EU ownership rules on airlines by developing ownership rules of its own, which could prevent carriers such as the Ireland-based Ryanair from flying UK domestic routes, as it does today.

EasyJet is establishing an EU operating company – on which an announcement is expected within weeks – so that it can obtain an EU air operating certificate. The company insists, however, it will continue to be headquartered in the UK.

It is currently 84%-owned by EU nationals, but this will drop to 49% after Brexit, provided the shares of founder Stelios Haji-Ioannou – who has dual UK and Cypriot nationality – are classed as EU-owned.

The Financial Times has reported that Haji-Ioannou’s shares are now classed as UK-owned to meet the airline’s own restrictions on ownership.

An easyJet spokesman said: “Like other European airlines, easyJet regularly engages with the UK and the EU on a wide range of issues which include the impact of Brexit on aviation. As this was a private meeting, we wouldn’t comment further on what was discussed.”

It has been reported that 60% of Dublin-registered Ryanair’s capital shares are owned by EU nationals, but this will be reduced to 40% once UK shareholders are excluded.

A spokesman for the airline said the company would “adapt”. However, the airline’s chief executive officer, Michael O’Leary, has already warned of the huge dangers to the industry of a “cliff-edge” Brexit, and criticised the “mildly lunatic optimism” of the British government.



"Wanna do business in Europe? Then you better be in a country in the EU. Oh wait you aren't? Well, you can always move, right?"

Less jobs for the UK, more jobs for Europe. Brexit, smartest choice ever made by a UK government.


Well the EU's strategy would be pretty straightforward - zero negotiations during the two year period until the UK leaves, then zero negotiations unless it involves the UK rejoining the EU. And make it a requirement that the UK must immediately join the Eurozone and must commit to further integration down the road.
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby His Divine Shadow » 2017-03-22 11:52am

Sounds like something the EU couldn't do even if it wanted, would split it apart, would show all the other countries this is no club we want to be in.

But lets not be overly optimistic on the EU remaining intact for too long, tensions are rising, already we're talking about a 2-speed EU... The mistake of the 2004/2007 eastwards expansion is coming back to roost. It was never going to work, but the allure of basically having developing countries inside the same free-trade area, to exploit for labor on site, to wage dump and undercut labor in the developed countries, and to brain drain the countries of their most educated, was too strong to resist.
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby Thanas » 2017-03-26 09:12am

In other news, Brexit apparently will lead to German supremacy in Europe.
What are they drinking and where can I get some?

Germany will “win the peace” in Europe as a result of Brexit, with the UK’s influence diminished, the former deputy prime minister Michael Heseltine has said.

The Tory peer said it was “quite unacceptable” that Germany would be in a dominant position in Europe having lost the second world war.

Lord Heseltine, who was sacked from a string of advisory roles within government after rebelling over the article 50 legislation in the Lords, insisted he would continue working to avert the “disaster” of Brexit.

In an interview with The House magazine, he said: “We’ve now abandoned the opportunity to influence Europe, the council of ministers will meet and we won’t be there. Our ability to speak for the Commonwealth within Europe has come to an end. The Americans will shift their focus of interest to Germany.

“And if I can put it to you, for someone like myself, it was in 1933, the year of my birth, that Hitler was democratically elected in Germany. He unleashed the most horrendous war. This country played a unique role in securing his defeat.

“So Germany lost the war. We’ve just handed them the opportunity to win the peace. I find that quite unacceptable.”

Ukip said the comments were an extraordinary thing to say and asked if Heseltine had “lost his marbles”.

“If I was German I would be deeply offended,” a Ukip spokesman told the BBC. “I never realised the purpose of Britain’s membership of the EU was to stop German domination of Europe.

“For someone who is deeply pro-European to basically say he doesn’t trust the German people not to misbehave shows how utterly out of touch he is with the modern world and the modern, democratic and free Germany.”


UKIP defending Germany...

Truly a madhouse.
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-03-26 09:15am

Not as stupid as thinking WWII is somehow relevant, as though Germany needs to be kept under control over seventy years later or the Nazis might win.

Hell, with Brexit, I'd say that contemporary Britain is (marginally) closer to being Nazi than contemporary Germany.

Maybe that's why UKIP is defending Germany- they also think Germany's still Nazi. :D
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby Zaune » 2017-03-26 09:34am

I have met at least one person who appeared to seriously believe that the EU was a sinister German plot to create the Fourth Reich. (I was tempted to retort that if that were true then at least the damn trains might run on time, but he was bigger than me.)

And if the Tories cock up the negotiations as badly as I expect them to then we'll be quite closely resembling 1930s Germany before long.
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby Tribble » 2017-03-26 01:07pm

It's not very often you get to see Tories openly taking inspiration from Yes Minister:

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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby ray245 » 2017-03-26 01:25pm

Thanas wrote:UKIP defending Germany...

Truly a madhouse.


Isn't Nigel Farage's wife German?
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby Zaune » 2017-03-26 01:58pm

They were in the middle of separating the last I heard, probably as a direct consequence of his adultery.
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby EnterpriseSovereign » 2017-03-27 05:59pm

Spain is making noises about getting Gibraltar back:

Link.

And the train-wreck goes on :lol:
It's no use debating a moron; they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

Your claim of using a scientific equation is laughable when all you have done is butcher science to the point it makes 'The Core' look like a fucking documentary. Just because you have the attention span of a fruit fly doesn't mean the rest of us are so encumbered.

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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-03-27 06:32pm

Yeah, its starting to look like we now know what will put the final nail in the coffin of the British Empire.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby Zaune » 2017-03-28 03:51pm

Nigel Farage says he will leave Britain if Brexit is a disaster

LONDON — Nigel Farage will abandon the UK if Brexit is a disaster, the former UKIP leader said on Monday night.

Farage, who has spent his political life campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, was asked whether he would apologise if Brexit led to huge job losses and economic ruin.

Farage refused to do so, saying that there wasn't a "tradition" of politicians apologising in the UK.

"I see hardly anyone resigning. I see hardly anyone apologising," he told a caller to his LBC show.

He then added: "If Brexit is a disaster I will go and live abroad. I will go and live somewhere else."


I didn't think I was capable of disliking this man any more than I already did, but apparently I am.
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby K. A. Pital » 2017-03-28 04:04pm

Zaune wrote:I didn't think I was capable of disliking this man any more than I already did, but apparently I am.

At least the scumbag is morbidly honest.
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby Tribble » 2017-03-28 04:22pm

If Northern Ireland joins with the rest of Ireland I imagine it would be able to remain in the EU?
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby EnterpriseSovereign » 2017-03-28 05:41pm

K. A. Pital wrote:
Zaune wrote:I didn't think I was capable of disliking this man any more than I already did, but apparently I am.

At least the scumbag is morbidly honest.

Like a rat leaving a sinking ship, though in this case Article 50 is the iceberg.
It's no use debating a moron; they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

Your claim of using a scientific equation is laughable when all you have done is butcher science to the point it makes 'The Core' look like a fucking documentary. Just because you have the attention span of a fruit fly doesn't mean the rest of us are so encumbered.

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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby Crazedwraith » 2017-03-28 05:53pm

Well the article 50 letter is signed and ready to post.
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Re: Brexit: UK to leave single market, says Theresa May

Postby Zaune » 2017-03-28 06:29pm

Tribble wrote:If Northern Ireland joins with the rest of Ireland I imagine it would be able to remain in the EU?

Yes. However, the operative word here is definitely "if". That process would make the reunification of Germany look hassle-free by comparison.
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