Global counter-reaction to the rise of far-right in the West?

[ray245]

The Brexit and rise of Trump has sent a very clear message to the global community. To a degree, it is about the growth of anti-globalism movement, but also about the notion of freedom of movement and anti-mulitculturalism.

I wonder how will the rest of the world, especially the non-western world react to the rise of far-right movement? Would this also cause far-right protectionistic movement to rise in the non-western world as well? Durtete is just one recent example, and there are certainly many other countries that would be rather miffed about what happened recently.

Does this also signal a weakening of liberal democracy as a political rhetoic in the world? Authorianianism largely benefited from the recent elections, especially with Hillary representing that segement of American society.

How will the rest of the world respond to the events in 2016?

[K. A. Pital]

Which "global community"? To the rich plutocrats in megacorporations or to the people?

[ray245]

Which "global community"? To the rich plutocrats in megacorporations or to the people?

Both? Although the rise of populist far-right movement seems to gain even more traction with the election of Trump. It's not surprising to see a number of authoritarian leaders being happy with the election of Trump.

[mr friendly guy]

Well if we are going to talk about the non Western world, we should start with the two biggies, Russia and China.

The former already has some rise of the far right even before the ideas of failed Muslim integration and Syrian refugees flooding started becoming a thing in Europe, so it most probably won't matter much. The rise of Trump might even strengthen Putin's hand.

In China with their "we will not interfere in someone else's internal affair," which really means we won't interfere unless its really going to negatively affect China, they most probably won't experience a rise of a counter movement. What Trump does in America shouldn't affect what happens in China in regards to Muslims, Hispanics etc shouldn't affect China.

Also, some of the forces driving the rise of the right, doesn't exist in China, or at least in the same vein. I will give two examples. The first one is the "persecution" angle. For the Brexiters its being persecuted by the EU (literally, the EU controls our laws, and when Farage talks about riots and violence, why that's because its the people rising up against the oppressive EU), and for some Trump supporters its because the establishment (ie Wall Street, rich people) are enriching themselves at their expense. Well there isn't an equivalent to the EU controlling China's sovereignty, and well there is income inequality in China, the poor are also getting richer. Also the CCP does string up some corrupt officials to at least sate some dissatisfaction from the average person against the "establishment." Whereas we don't see the "establishment" in the US getting the same punishment. Its much harder to feel you're being hard done by the establishment when your living conditions are improving due to the establishment.


The second is migration and the racism associated with such issues, which is an issue powering up the far right. Its not that Chinese can't be racist, they clearly can. Its just that racism is less of a problem when the targeted minority only exists in small numbers. There isn't a large amount of refugees or illegal migrants coming into China. One might also get a sense of schadenfreude when they see what the EU response to the refugee crisis is turning out to be and note their own turning away of Nork refugees and the criticism they faced for doing so. They might be tempted to interpret their own actions in regards to Nork refugees as the correct choice, just look at parts of Europe starting to take a harder line on refugees. In which case it would be more of a case of continuing what we're doing, rather than change in response to what the far right in Europe is doing, since its Europe changing to match our actions on refugees, and not the other way round.

However... there may be some far right protectionist measures arising in China if Trump starts a trade war, an action he has stated he will do. China will have no choice but to respond and this will likely breed an equivalent far right in China, at least as far as the economy goes. Most probably not the same response in regards to immigration since that's not a big issue in China.

[Tribble]

I'm actually going to agree in essence with K. A. Pital here. IMO it's more along the lines of the political elites ignoring their citizens for so long that they start turning to extreme parties / candidates to voice their grievances. Particularly when it comes to globalization and the attempts by political elites to get rid of national sovereignty to further their agenda.

Take the UK for example. The electorate never agreed to join the EU. The voters had agreed to join the EEC, which was a very different beast. Everyone seems to keep forgetting that. Each subsequent treaty was signed without public input, and in the case of the Lisbon Treaty it was signed without a referendum despite every political party having promised to hold one beforehand. The reason why they did that was clear - they knew that the majority of UK voters did not support joining the EU and its subsequent treaties, so the only way for the elites to continue their plans was to just flat out ignore them.

IMO if the mainstream parties had taken the time to negotiate their treaties and ensured that the public had their say rather than shove major changes down people's throats as fast as possible, things like Brexit wouldn't happen. Ireland is a pretty good example of what should have happened in the UK. Voters there held a referendum and rejected the Lisbon Treaty. As referendums on constitutional changes are binding there and cannot be ignored, the government took the time to find out why the Irish population rejected the treaty. It became clear that there were two reasons - the Irish public did not feel informed enough to endorse a treaty change they know little about, and there were some things that voters disagreed with (such as the potential of Ireland eventually being required to join an EU army). The Irish government then took the time to educate voters, renegotiated some of the terms (such as Ireland being exempted from joining in a common defence strategy even if the rest of the EU decides on one) and presented the Irish voters with another referendum, which was passed. Now it isn't quite so rosy as that (the Irish were certainly pressered into holding another referendum in order to receive a bailout) but the concept of the government taking into account voters preferences was there.

At any rate, given the way things played out in the UK it should come as no surprise that there would inevitably be major backlash yet the political elites were simply astounded that those dirty stinking uneducated little peasants had the gall to demand a referendum and vote to leave. Whether or not the EU is a good thing overall, the way they handled the UK's relationship with the EU was horrendous. It doesn't take a degree to figure out that a lot of people don't like being coerced into things without having their say and having their wished being completely ignored.

[K. A. Pital]

Yes. In essence, the backlash is being generate not through the right alone.

The rise of SYRIZA, Podemos and other anti-establishment forces on the Left has been overlooked in this thread. In fact, the only reason anti-establishment left hasn't made more serious gains and headlines is due to the fact that the establishment takes it as a very serious threat and works to kill them in the crib.

Right-wing populists were long seen as a "safe vent", a bunch of unelectables who just serve to prove a point - there's no alternative to the establishment centrist discourse (in reality - the globalist-corporatist, oligarchic free trader discourse).

But in the end, with the left demolished outside of traditional safe havens by a campaign of betrayals, sell-outs and backstabbings, the anger had to be vented through some political forces. It is not a coincidence that a great majority of France's "Front National" voters stem from traditionally Communist areas.

Don't betray the working class - or pay the price. Such is, I guess, the message. And with Podemos, Corbyn, SYRIZA I can still see the potential for the left to capitalize on this anger and not just allow the right to capture the points - and with them supporters.

Too bad most left-wing politicians looking like a spineless shade of those from 1960s and 1970s. They've abandoned even fairly moderate positions they had back in the day and are full-time on pay of the oligarchy.

[Sea Skimmer]

Does this also signal a weakening of liberal democracy as a political rhetoic in the world?

Not in any useful sense. Seriously, the Democratic party subverted its own democratic process and got caught doing it, and lost. Trump meanwhile got on the ballot even with the Republican Party also all but certainly conspiring against him. Seems like a win for people power to me. Oh sure, not a great choice of president but that isn't the point of democracy. The point is Trump will not be legally president if he looses the next election, and I don't think anyone seriously believes he's going to try to become a dictator, let alone would ever be able to.

As far as what it means, it means frankly Hillary was just bad at campaigning, I could point to big budget specifics just locally, and I still had no idea what her plan was to reform the ACA, I'm not sure she had one, and people got tried of pure bullshit. Trump is a racist asshole, but he's also the one saying the system is rigged for the rich and a lot of other stuff that's at least half true.

Hillary, honestly what was her message? I'm here? I'm not Trump? I could certainly never find reasons other then not Trump as a reason to vote for her. As it is she polled lower among minorities and women then Obama did in 2012 when it counted, while Trump gained a few percent over Romney in some minority demographics. I'm a little surprised she lost sure, but when Trump said what do you have to loose, it was not a bad question. Hillary was certainly not change, and it is kind of a point of a democracy that it allows change and experimentation without becoming unstable.

Now if in two years from now Trumpist militia with F150 technicals are handing out free microwaves to supporters of Mexico War Two my opinions mighty change, but that's kind of what Far Right means to me. In Europe half the time it seems to mean Nazi and the other half of the time it means some ones feelings got hurt. America voted down worrying about feelings. The Nazi threat remains low.

[Pelranius]

The disciplined Trump of the past week and a half probably isn't going to hold together for very long.

And depending on where you think the US economy is on the cyclical side of things, Trump could very well get saddled with the next recession.

[Swindle1984]

Fuck it, let's just bring back the Holy Roman Empire.

[Tribble]

Fuck it, let's just bring back the Holy Roman Empire.

So the answer to people's backlash over globalization, the gutting of the middle class, mainstream political parties ignoring their voters wishes and sovereignty being steadily being transferred out of the hands of the electorate and into the hands of unaccountable corporate lawyers is... that? Really? Like all demagogues Trump is far more symptom than cause. If the mainstream poltical elites decided to, you know, actually do their damn job and make the lives of their citizens better, then things like Trump and Brexit wouldn't happen.

[K. A. Pital]

Fuck it, let's just bring back the Holy Roman Empire.

So the answer to people's backlash over globalization, the gutting of the middle class, mainstream political parties ignoring their voters wishes and sovereignty being steadily being transferred out of the hands of the electorate and into the hands of unaccountable corporate lawyers is... that? Really? Like all demagogues Trump is far more symptom than cause. If the mainstream poltical elites decided to, you know, actually do their damn job and make the lives of their citizens better, then things like Trump and Brexit wouldn't happen.

+ many.

I would also say Skimmer summed up a lot of what I thought. Hillary was simply a bad establishment candidate (disregarding the silly hur-hurs by some Democratic posters here). And that's it - Trump got on the anti-establishment wave and won. By saying half-true things. So even if it was all deception, Hillary did not offer the working class even that.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Modi in India, Abe in Japan, Duterte in the Philippines, whoever replaces Park Geun-hye in South Korea, Netanyahu, Erdogan... the far-right is marching everywhere. There's no continent without nationalists coming to power, except Oceania and Antarctica. It's not just in the West.

[K. A. Pital]

Modi in India, Abe in Japan, Duterte in the Philippines, whoever replaces Park Geun-hye in South Korea, Netanyahu, Erdogan... the far-right is marching everywhere. There's no continent without nationalists coming to power, except Oceania and Antarctica. It's not just in the West.

You forgot good old Vladimir, comrade.

[His Divine Shadow]

It's almost as if people prefer decentralization of power and for it to be more local to them, rather than ever more centralization.

[Gandalf]

Modi in India, Abe in Japan, Duterte in the Philippines, whoever replaces Park Geun-hye in South Korea, Netanyahu, Erdogan... the far-right is marching everywhere. There's no continent without nationalists coming to power, except Oceania and Antarctica. It's not just in the West.

You forgot good old Vladimir, comrade.

Also Abbott/Turnbull in Australia. Oceania is well covered in nationalist lunacy.

[ray245]

Yes. In essence, the backlash is being generate not through the right alone.

The rise of SYRIZA, Podemos and other anti-establishment forces on the Left has been overlooked in this thread. In fact, the only reason anti-establishment left hasn't made more serious gains and headlines is due to the fact that the establishment takes it as a very serious threat and works to kill them in the crib.

Right-wing populists were long seen as a "safe vent", a bunch of unelectables who just serve to prove a point - there's no alternative to the establishment centrist discourse (in reality - the globalist-corporatist, oligarchic free trader discourse).

But in the end, with the left demolished outside of traditional safe havens by a campaign of betrayals, sell-outs and backstabbings, the anger had to be vented through some political forces. It is not a coincidence that a great majority of France's "Front National" voters stem from traditionally Communist areas.

Don't betray the working class - or pay the price. Such is, I guess, the message. And with Podemos, Corbyn, SYRIZA I can still see the potential for the left to capitalize on this anger and not just allow the right to capture the points - and with them supporters.

Too bad most left-wing politicians looking like a spineless shade of those from 1960s and 1970s. They've abandoned even fairly moderate positions they had back in the day and are full-time on pay of the oligarchy.

The worryingly thing is this has been effecitvely exploited by the right-wing populist movements. I am feeling it might be too late for any real progressive movement to exploit that, because voters can easily be covinced to be going back to the status quo if the economy crash and burn under Trump.

Everytime a serious left-wing movement won power in Europe, they have been pretty much limited in what they can do. They've never had the keys to the most powerful countries that actually control most of the world's finance. So after a while, the voters became disilluisioned with left-wing movement and switch to supporting right-wing movements.

On the other hand, right-wing populist movements have just seize control of the world's biggest economy. The Republicians pretty much control everything and are free to implement any policies they want.

[K. A. Pital]

Why should the economy "crash and burn" under Trump though?

Is this prediction actually based on anything?

Here's the thing. There are protectionist nations with extremely complicated immigration.

For example, China and Korea. Also Switzerland.

They have their difficulties, but "crash and burn"? Far from it.

[ray245]

Why should the economy "crash and burn" under Trump though?

Is this prediction actually based on anything?

Here's the thing. There are protectionist nations with extremely complicated immigration.

For example, China and Korea. Also Switzerland.

They have their difficulties, but "crash and burn"? Far from it.

And if it doesn't, then it basically legitimise everything Trump has done so far. Any hope of a left-wing movement dead and gone.

[K. A. Pital]

There are plenty of inherent problems in the capitalist mode of production.

It does not change regardless of whether Clinton or Trump is in charge.

[The Romulan Republic]

The Brexit and rise of Trump has sent a very clear message to the global community. To a degree, it is about the growth of anti-globalism movement, but also about the notion of freedom of movement and anti-mulitculturalism.

I wonder how will the rest of the world, especially the non-western world react to the rise of far-right movement? Would this also cause far-right protectionistic movement to rise in the non-western world as well? Durtete is just one recent example, and there are certainly many other countries that would be rather miffed about what happened recently.

Does this also signal a weakening of liberal democracy as a political rhetoic in the world? Authorianianism largely benefited from the recent elections, especially with Hillary representing that segement of American society.

How will the rest of the world respond to the events in 2016?

I think, unfortunately, that this result will invigorate, validate, and bolster far Right, nationalist, misogynistic, homophobic, anti-Muslim, racist, and xenophobic sentiments around the world. We are entering a very dark time in the world, probably the darkest since the 1940s.

As to how those countries not going down this path (such as Canada) should respond, I would argue that we should stick to our principles in defending basic liberties and democratic institutions, and strive to set an example for the world. To show that we can make a free and diverse society work for everyone.

I will also argue that we may have to sacrifice free trade in order to retain support for a free, diverse society.

[ray245]

There are plenty of inherent problems in the capitalist mode of production.

It does not change regardless of whether Clinton or Trump is in charge.

But it would legitimise popular far-right movement like Le-Pen. For people that aren't straight, white, Christian, the next few years would be extremely challenging.

Trump has created a movement that united workers with xenophobes. Good luck trying to untangle the alliance in the years ahead.

[K. A. Pital]

But it would legitimise popular far-right movement like Le-Pen. For people that aren't straight, white, Christian, the next few years would be extremely challenging.

Trump has created a movement that united workers with xenophobes. Good luck trying to untangle the alliance in the years ahead.

First of all, Le Pen was already legitimized in worker eyes. Check please the voting results in France.

Secondly, the workers and xenophobes are not necessarily separate entities. They are overlapping.

Thirdly, you will not make workers less xenophobic by pushing more globalist bullshit down their throat. You will make them more xenophobic and provoke an angry reaction.

That issue can only be solved by education and collective organizations which aim to introduce solidarity inside the society. But neoliberal globalist policies put education out of reach for a huge number of people. They make it expensive, they aim to privatize, privatize and liberalize. Income gap is rising and poorer families are priced out of education, breeding ignorance and xenophobia. You cannot fight xenophobia without fighting capitalism and globalism, as the underlying reasons for xenophobia lie in the extremely bad education situation due to capitalist outpricing of the worker class in education!

[AniThyng]

There are plenty of inherent problems in the capitalist mode of production.

It does not change regardless of whether Clinton or Trump is in charge.

But it would legitimise popular far-right movement like Le-Pen. For people that aren't straight, white, Christian, the next few years would be extremely challenging.

Trump has created a movement that united workers with xenophobes. Good luck trying to untangle the alliance in the years ahead.

Out of curiosity are you still in Singapore?

[ray245]

First of all, Le Pen was already legitimized in worker eyes. Check please the voting results in France.

So now they stand a far more serious chance of becoming the ruling party in France.

Secondly, the workers and xenophobes are not necessarily separate entities. They are overlapping.

Thirdly, you will not make workers less xenophobic by pushing more globalist bullshit down their throat. You will make them more xenophobic and provoke an angry reaction.

And that xenophobia is going to utterly hurt a lot of people over the next few years. How effective has anti-globalist rhetoric work out for the left? The left have people saying that for years, but that never amount to much. People like Bernie Sanders have offered an alternative, yet he simply could not even win the primaries.

That issue can only be solved by education and collective organizations which aim to introduce solidarity inside the society. But neoliberal globalist policies put education out of reach for a huge number of people. They make it expensive, they aim to privatize, privatize and liberalize. Income gap is rising and poorer families are priced out of education, breeding ignorance and xenophobia. You cannot fight xenophobia without fighting capitalism and globalism, as the underlying reasons for xenophobia lie in the extremely bad education situation due to capitalist outpricing of the worker class in education!

Good luck having solidarity in society when one part of it is outright trying to intimidate and scare the other half. Americans have rejected an inclusive yet anti-globalist message in Bernie Sanders. Trump supporters are outright claiming how happy they are for defeating Obama for being a socialist. Do you seriously think the other side is now even eager to work together after their worse fears being effecitvely legitimsed?

I doubt education is somehow the magical pill to change Americans. You seem to be forgetting the anti-intellectualism movment that is apparent, which do NOT distinguish the more socialist intellectuals from neo-capitalist intellectuals.


In a bid to protect workers, you don't need to put other minorities in vunlerable positions.

Out of curiosity are you still in Singapore?

Back in Singapore for now, but planning to do my grad studies overseas.

[K. A. Pital]

Sanders could not win the primaries because Democratic "party", a corrupt oligarch playground, has done everything to destroy him. They played dirty and it was revealed. They wanted Clinton to be their candidate.

Now they must reap what they sow.

Corbyn stuck by his left leaning party members and did not go out like a pussy - and that man is still standing.

I find this denigration of the left strange. Yes, those of the left who practically betrayed the worker class - centrists, do-nothings, social democrats who lick corporte boots - these were demolished by the rise of Euroskeptic parties. But those who did not, enjoyed solid gains as well.

If the left keeps betraying, the workers will turn totally to the right. Tolerance for globalization is running very low.

What is your answer, though? Abolish democracy? Introduce an educational barrier so that the uneducated can't vote because they are more likely to be anti intellectualist? That is a recipe for open, bloody class war.

What is your answer, what should the left do? Go to the globalist oligarchs asking for advice and money because they are so global and international, so tolerant and educated? That will bring them to ruin along with these false masters, in the end.