The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

[Gandalf]

I think Obamacare will be like Roe v Wade in a sense. The right will make a mint railing against it, but to actually repeal it would be far more costly in the long run.

[Darmalus]

How old are you, out of curiosity? Because the losing side of EVERY modern election has "howled like banshees." Certainly the Republicans did the past 2 election cycles, and the Democrats did for both Bush electoral victories.

True. It probably just feels louder because I'm on the losing side this time, so I'm more closely tired to those wailing morons.

How do you calculate 50%+1? Is it 50% of the entire voting eligible population, or 50% of the people who actually voted? How do you take into account margins of error?

I only ever consider those who choose to vote, even if it's just a write-in for their pet cat for president. If we had compulsory voting or one of various other systems I'd change my stance due to how radically that changes the math of potential outcomes. As far as margins of error, in practical matters it'd probably work out to 50.5% of the voters to prevent margin of error dickery.

I agree that voting should be compulsory. But your other ideas are repugnant. I literally had my vote stolen in FL in 2000, and was physically ill for weeks after Dubya was elected for the first time in 2004. But I didn't sit in my shitty underwear and cry about it, I took it as a confirmation that the electoral college was a goddamned joke and a holdover from the days before the telegraph.

Unfortunately the chances of doing away with it are zip, zero, and zilch. All because the people that benefit from losing the popular vote but win in the electoral college and their party in the legislature will not destroy the system that got them into power.

I don't like the electoral college or gerrymandered travesty we have either. But just ripping out the EC without any other changes doesn't sit well with me either, the rural US is ignored badly enough as is and complete dictatorship of the cities (of the presidential election) makes my bleeding heart cringe.

[Darmalus]

Oh and he is also considering living in the white house only part of the time. Some are already saying he didn't expect to win and only wants to be a part-time president.

Dubya style, 6 months of vacation per year?

[Gandalf]

I don't like the electoral college or gerrymandered travesty we have either. But just ripping out the EC without any other changes doesn't sit well with me either, the rural US is ignored badly enough as is and complete dictatorship of the cities (of the presidential election) makes my bleeding heart cringe.

That's an inherently valid concern, but could that be extended to other ignored groups? Why not ethnic minorities having some more votes, or poorer people, or young people?

[MKSheppard]

I think Obamacare will be like Roe v Wade in a sense. The right will make a mint railing against it, but to actually repeal it would be far more costly in the long run.

It'll blow up sooner or later.

[Gandalf]

I think Obamacare will be like Roe v Wade in a sense. The right will make a mint railing against it, but to actually repeal it would be far more costly in the long run.

It'll blow up sooner or later.

Sure, but it's a question of if it collapses under its own weight, or a legislature does it in.

[Q99]

It's looking like Trump may remove one critical leg of it without realizing it, things'll blow up... and hopefully it won't take too long til someone's in a position to fix it.


Or there's always a chance it'll limp along until the Democrats have the power to start ironing things out and gradually either make it more stable or replace it with something better before it goes under.

[Flagg]

I don't like the electoral college or gerrymandered travesty we have either. But just ripping out the EC without any other changes doesn't sit well with me either, the rural US is ignored badly enough as is and complete dictatorship of the cities (of the presidential election) makes my bleeding heart cringe.

That's an inherently valid concern, but could that be extended to other ignored groups? Why not ethnic minorities having some more votes, or poorer people, or young people?

I don't see it as a valid concern. The candidates more or less ignore the states they know will vote for them and focus on a handful of "swing states" that for all intents and purposes decide the election. Like my votes in FL (the ones that didn't end up in a swamp) counted a lot more than my vote here in WA. I lived in Florida for over 20 years and can say unequivocally that letting that "crusty, clap infected, and dropping a greenish pus and semen gloop onto Cuba" state shouldn't be deciding who runs a 711, let alone who runs the last Suer-Power.

[Simon_Jester]

Listening to the losing side of this election howl like moronic banshees for half a week has left me feeling like I'm on another planet, I'll admit.

And I will stand by my words, if you can't get 50%+1 of the popular vote, you didn't win the popular vote. This isn't the winner of the popular vote being overruled by the electoral college, it's the electoral college deciding which failure was more broadly appealing.

So the very existence of a few third-party options that collectively take up 10% or so of the vote should basically make it impossible to ever elect a new candidate ever, is what you're saying?

[Napoleon the Clown]

Listening to the losing side of this election howl like moronic banshees for half a week has left me feeling like I'm on another planet, I'll admit.

And I will stand by my words, if you can't get 50%+1 of the popular vote, you didn't win the popular vote. This isn't the winner of the popular vote being overruled by the electoral college, it's the electoral college deciding which failure was more broadly appealing.

So the very existence of a few third-party options that collectively take up 10% or so of the vote should basically make it impossible to ever elect a new candidate ever, is what you're saying?

That is exactly what he is saying, whether he realizes it or not.

[Elfdart]

This is probably really stupid, but part of me wonders if the best thing to do at this point isn't for Muslims, Hispanics, gays, women's groups, trans people, etc to collectively fawn over Trump and constantly praise him and go on about how he proved us all wrong and he's so much better at being president than we expected to stoke his ego in hopes that he'll decide to reward them.

I mean, eventually he's going to do something to piss off the demographics that voted for him and he'll need get his adoration fix from somewhere...right?

Worked like a charm for Max Naumann, didn't it?

Even if the electoral college did that, how much can she do with a republican Congress now faced with a president with borderline legitimacy?!

Congress does have the option of ignoring the electors and appointing a president if they want.

[Flagg]

This is probably really stupid, but part of me wonders if the best thing to do at this point isn't for Muslims, Hispanics, gays, women's groups, trans people, etc to collectively fawn over Trump and constantly praise him and go on about how he proved us all wrong and he's so much better at being president than we expected to stoke his ego in hopes that he'll decide to reward them.

I mean, eventually he's going to do something to piss off the demographics that voted for him and he'll need get his adoration fix from somewhere...right?

Worked like a charm for Max Naumann, didn't it?

Even if the electoral college did that, how much can she do with a republican Congress now faced with a president with borderline legitimacy?!

Congress does have the option of ignoring the electors and appointing a president if they want.

Yeah, then there would be a second civil war.

[Tsyroc]

Yeah, then there would be a second civil war.

Possibly. The precedent of congress doing that would set would be really, really bad.


IMO, the best bet for Trump to be removed from office before the next election is if enough of his own party is willing to impeach him. It'd be best if it came from them primarily and not from the Democrats with just enough Republicans crossing the aisle.

I suppose he could resign if the job ends up being too much of a pain in the ass for him but after all his talk about "losers" I think it would have to be something extraordinary to get him to resign.


On another note. If it weren't for the lousy people Trump appears to be planning to surround himself with I'm somewhat convinced that the old conspiracy theory that Trump was just a stalking horse for Hillary might have been true, except that it got out of hand and he ended up winning instead of Hillary. Some of the bits I've seen in interviews with him since he won really don't seem to jive with much of anything he said in the campaign. He seems sort of reasonable. Then I get back to seeing the assclowns he's probably going to put in his cabinet. I suppose if he really is an undercover Democrat he really would have to camouflage himself.

Or it could be more of the same. Tweaks on Obamacare, "fixes it" and now it's the greatest thing ever...Trumpcare. He does like putting his name on things.

[bilateralrope]

ISIS decided to comment on the election:

Top Isis commander calls Donald Trump a 'complete maniac'

A top Isis commander in Afghanistan has called the President-elect Donald Trump a “complete maniac” and said his “utter hate towards Muslims” will make it “much easier" to recruit thousands more supporters.

Mr Trump was widely condemned for his call, shortly after the terrorist attacks in Paris in November 2015, to temporarily ban all Muslims from entering the United States until he figured out "what the hell was going on".

The Republican and his allies have consistently defended the ban, insisting the measure was about Americans’ "safety" and not about discriminating against religion.

Mr Trump has since toned down his call for the ban saying he would temporarily suspend immigration from countries that have "a history of exporting terrorism".

But Taliban commanders and Islamic State supporters have said the rhetoric Mr Trump used during his campaign will help their recruitment efforts, especially among disaffected young people in the West.

"This guy is a complete maniac. His utter hate towards Muslims will make our job much easier because we can recruit thousands," Abu Omar Khorasani, a top Isis commander in Afghanistan, told Reuters.

"Our leaders were closely following the US election but it was unexpected that the Americans will dig their own graves and they did so," Khorasani continued, describing President Barack Obama as a moderate infidel with a little more intelligence than Mr Trump.

A senior Taliban commander in Afghanistan said the group had kept track of Mr Trump's speeches and anti-Muslim comments: "If he does what he warned in his election campaign, I am sure it will provoke Muslim Ummah [community] across the world and jihadi organisations can exploit it."

Al-Qaeda, which launched the 11 September attacks on New York and the Pentagon, has not yet commented on Mr Trump's win.

However, Hisham al Hashimi an adviser to the Iraqi government on Sunni jihadist movements, told Reuters that "Al-Qaeda is known for its recruitment strategy that heavily quotes speeches of the White House and other Western officials.”

Iraq's powerful Shia Muslim cleric Muqtada al-Sadr said in a statement: "He [Donald Trump] does not differentiate between extremist and moderate Islamist trends and, at the same time, he overlooks [the fact] that his extremism will generate extremism in return.”

The President-elect vocalised his tough stance on Islamic militants during his campaign, vowing to defeat "radical Islam just as we won the Cold War". However, he has failed to give extensive details on his plans to combat jihadist groups.

The US saw a number of attacks inspired by Islamic militants during Mr Trump's presidential campaign, including the killing of 14 people in December 2015 in San Bernardino, California by Syed Rizwan Farook and his wife Tashfeen Malik, who allegedly pledged allegiance to Isis leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and the June massacre of 49 people in an Orlando nightclub by a gunman who made a phone call before the attack saying, "I pledge my allegiance to [Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi] of the Islamic State.”

Officials have warned the US is likely to face similar attacks as Isis calls on its supporters to launch attacks at home rather than making the journey to the Middle East.

Mr Trump's office did not immediately respond to requests for comment on the statements from the militants.

Even if the President-elect tones down his anti-Muslim comments when he takes office in January, analysts say his statements during the campaign were enough to fuel the militants' propaganda machine.

"Militants will still use those quotes," said Matthew Henman, head of IHS Jane's Terrorism and Insurgency Centre. "The key thing militant groups, particularly Islamic State and al-Qaeda, depend on for recruitment purposes is convincing Muslims in the Western world that the West hates them and won't ever accept them as part of their society."

Does anyone here disagree with anything they said about Trump ?

[FireNexus]

Edit: Scratch this. Thought we were talking about secession. Nah, Congress isn't installing a president and neither are faithless electors. All hail king trump.

[Flagg]

Sorry, but I don't give 2 bloody shits what the Taliban thinks of Donnie Douchebag, Rapist, & Pedophile Supreme. Just like I don't care what the Unibomber or Breivik think about him/it.

[Oscar Wilde]

My understanding of the cabinet 'picks' so far were that it was mostly speculation and nothing was final yet, is that not the case?

As for impeaching Trump? Ech. Is having Pence as president really a good idea?

[Ace Pace]

My understanding of the cabinet 'picks' so far were that it was mostly speculation and nothing was final yet, is that not the case?

As for impeaching Trump? Ech. Is having Pence as president really a good idea?

Quite official

President-elect Donald J. Trump today announced that he intends to nominate U.S. Senator Jeff Sessions to serve as Attorney General and U.S. Rep. Mike Pompeo as Director of the Central Intelligence Agency. Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn has been selected to be the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs.

[Flagg]

My understanding of the cabinet 'picks' so far were that it was mostly speculation and nothing was final yet, is that not the case?

As for impeaching Trump? Ech. Is having Pence as president really a good idea?

Impeaching him for crimes committed before the election (and in cases of sexual assault/rape there are likely statute of limitations issues because women are things, apparently) seems dicey. It would likely go to the Supreme Court, and unless the Democrats can do magic and get some Republicans on board for a filibuster and prevent the Knuckle Draggers from eliminating the filibuster of SCOTUS appointments, then one of the justices would be Donnie Douchebag appointed (and being a Trump pick and therefore a guaranteed rightwing dicksnot, I wouldn't expect them to have the integrity to recuse themselves) it's not going to happen even if Democrats got the House and Senate in 2018.

And since Democrats didn't impeach Chimpus Caesar for war crimes and torture, I doubt they would impeach Trump even if paid goons held Nancy Pelosi down and Trump shat on her face during the State of the Union address.

[Gandalf]

And since Democrats didn't impeach Chimpus Caesar for war crimes and torture, I doubt they would impeach Trump even if paid goons held Nancy Pelosi down and Trump shat on her face during the State of the Union address.

Pretty much. Now the US (and the rest of us) will pay for the US' national lack of spine in prosecuting its criminal leaders. Pelosi had two while GWB was in power, and Obama had eight years to bring charges. I wonder if this can all be traced back to Ford pardoning Nixon so everyone could feel better about themselves?

[Flagg]

And since Democrats didn't impeach Chimpus Caesar for war crimes and torture, I doubt they would impeach Trump even if paid goons held Nancy Pelosi down and Trump shat on her face during the State of the Union address.

Pretty much. Now the US (and the rest of us) will pay for the US' national lack of spine in prosecuting its criminal leaders. Pelosi had two while GWB was in power, and Obama had eight years to bring charges. I wonder if this can all be traced back to Ford pardoning Nixon so everyone could feel better about themselves?

A bit. I think that had more to do with setting a precedent of Presidents not being prosecuted after they leave office. It was basically a CYA for all future POTUS'.

I think Pelosi in 2006 was afraid that an impeachment of Bush II would have the "Clinton Effect" of making Dubya's approval ratings go up lie Clinton's in 1998/99. I don't agree since one was all about Bill having his dick in a Jews mouth on Easter which was between him and his wife and the entire case was basically a "gotcha!" for lying under oath about something that was no ones fucking business while the Bush impeachment was all about negligence before 9/11, lying the US and it's dumber allies into a war of aggression and choice, and the massive use of torture

[Simon_Jester]

I don't think Bush committed impeachable negligence prior to 9/11. No comment on the other things, though.

[Flagg]

I don't think Bush committed impeachable negligence prior to 9/11. No comment on the other things, though.

Yeah, I don't know that he broke any laws. In fact I think it's likely he didn't, but it was dereliction of duty and if I had my way during a Bush 2007 impeachment it would have been used against him since he used the event as an excuse to commit all of his crimes.

[FireNexus]

And since Democrats didn't impeach Chimpus Caesar for war crimes and torture, I doubt they would impeach Trump even if paid goons held Nancy Pelosi down and Trump shat on her face during the State of the Union address.

Pretty much. Now the US (and the rest of us) will pay for the US' national lack of spine in prosecuting its criminal leaders. Pelosi had two while GWB was in power, and Obama had eight years to bring charges. I wonder if this can all be traced back to Ford pardoning Nixon so everyone could feel better about themselves?

A bit. I think that had more to do with setting a precedent of Presidents not being prosecuted after they leave office. It was basically a CYA for all future POTUS'.

I think Pelosi in 2006 was afraid that an impeachment of Bush II would have the "Clinton Effect" of making Dubya's approval ratings go up lie Clinton's in 1998/99. I don't agree since one was all about Bill having his dick in a Jews mouth on Easter which was between him and his wife and the entire case was basically a "gotcha!" for lying under oath about something that was no ones fucking business while the Bush impeachment was all about negligence before 9/11, lying the US and it's dumber allies into a war of aggression and choice, and the massive use of torture

I would point out something that has been on Vox recently: Clinton's perjury wasn't just about him fucking a woman. It was about an executive fucking a subordinate in the office. That wasn't how it was framed, but nowadays the whole thing would be a huge scandal not because sex, but because sexual harassment and abuse of power.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah, I actually have pretty much zero sympathy for Bill on that score.

Doesn't make the Republicans going after him any better-see Gingrich and especially Hastert-but Bill probably ought to have been impeached.