The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Tribble » 2016-11-09 07:53pm

Flagg wrote:
Tribble wrote:
I think what's so jarring for a lot of people, myself included, is that we went from "almost certainly, she's a shoe-in!" for our first female President who was eminently qualified (certainly the most qualified candidate for POTUS in my lifetime) if a bit too far right for my, and others taste to shockingly electing a racist, misogynistic, sexual predator blowhard who's only "applicable" experience is running companies into the ground while still managing to make a fuckton of money out of it.
Which I find kind of odd because... well the writing was on the wall from where I stood, and I'm kind of surprised that so many people failed to see it coming. What was it that you missed? I knew right off the bat that while Clinton may be the most qualified, she was not popular, and putting her up against a demagogue like Trump was a huge mistake on the Democrats part. IMO a lot of Democrats forgot that a majority of people tend to vote with their emotions rather than common sense, and that was something Trump was obviously capable of exploiting to the fullest.
Because all the shit that got Tea Party dipshits and Mitt Romney the loss in 2012 was ramped up to 11. And I can't fathom how anyone could find Rapist Donnie Douchebag "likeable". He exudes slimeball jackass. And while I agree that Clinton wasn't likable, it was in a "politician" kind of way, if that makes any sense.
And that's why to me it seemed so obvious that Trump was going to win. She was the establishment politician through and through when it was clear that a good chunk of the population did not want one. To be fair, perhaps I was able to see it coming because I had recently experienced something similar with Toronto's Rob Ford. The elites really had no clue what the majority of voters were feeling and felt they could just assume the leadership with another member of the establishment, and boy did that bite them in the ass.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2016-11-09 07:57pm

What this election tells me is that sadly, for the time being at least, experience and organization mean next to nothing in national politics in America. You have to be able to appeal to the emotions of the voters. Trump appealed to our darker, baser emotions. Bernie appealed to our hopes for progress and a better future. Clinton failed to do either, or at least failed to do so enough.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Tribble » 2016-11-09 08:08pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:What this election tells me is that sadly, for the time being at least, experience and organization mean next to nothing in national politics in America. You have to be able to appeal to the emotions of the voters. Trump appealed to our darker, baser emotions. Bernie appealed to our hopes for progress and a better future. Clinton failed to do either, or at least failed to do so enough.
Same in Canada actually, except the "sunny ways" candidate was the populist one who ended up winning. Our current PM is was little more than a part-time drama teacher with good looks and his father's name, yet that was more than enough to beat his more "experienced and organized" competition. Fortunately he appealed to our better (if a bit naïve) viewpoints, and we seem to be doing ok so far.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2016-11-09 08:24pm

When I look at other countries around the world seeming to be falling like dominoes to Right wing authoritarianism and bigotry, I am profoundly grateful for Justin Trudeau.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Tribble » 2016-11-09 08:39pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:When I look at other countries around the world seeming to be falling like dominoes to Right wing authoritarianism and bigotry, I am profoundly grateful for Justin Trudeau.
IMO a lot of that has to do with mainstream parties ignoring the trends that are obviously in front of them until its too late. Burying your head in the sand and refusing to listen will only get you so far even in politics, and eventually things will end up catching up to you. We're just lucky that after losing several times with typical establishment figures the Liberal Party realised what was going on and acted on it rather than let the trend continue until some extreme group ended up taking over.

Or as Sanders put it:
"Let me be very clear. In my view, Democrats will not retain the White House, will not regain the Senate, will not gain the House and will not be successful in dozens of governor’s races unless we run a campaign which generates excitement and momentum and which produces a huge voter turnout.
With all due respect, and I do not mean to insult anyone here, that will not happen with politics as usual. The same old, same old will not be successful.
The people of our country understand that — given the collapse of the American middle class and the grotesque level of income and wealth inequality we are experiencing — we do not need more establishment politics or establishment economics.
We need a political movement which is prepared to take on the billionaire class and create a government which represents all Americans, and not just corporate America and wealthy campaign donors.
In other words, we need a movement which takes on the economic and political establishment, not one which is part of it."
Although he and Trump were very different people, they both must have noticed the same trend. A pity the rest of Democrats catch on; even if they didn't want him as a candidate, they should have been looking for someone else like him or an Obama type figure rather than Clinton.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Lonestar » 2016-11-09 10:06pm

For those of you who quoted me and generated a notification on page 35, can you re-do it? Work is blocking that page because of "adult materials"(?).
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Soontir C'boath » 2016-11-09 10:11pm

I'm just going to chime in here and say to maraxus, wherever he is, Flagg, Simon, etc. You were all full of shit.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Flagg » 2016-11-09 10:35pm

Soontir C'boath wrote:I'm just going to chime in here and say to maraxus, wherever he is, Flagg, Simon, etc. You were all full of shit.
No, American voters are. And they all voided themselves yesterday electing a rapist, pedophie, compulsive liar, psychopath.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by AniThyng » 2016-11-09 10:55pm

So I hear a lot of rhetoric about this being a disaster for women. What do we call the 40+% of female voters who voted for Trump then?
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Gandalf » 2016-11-09 10:59pm

AniThyng wrote:So I hear a lot of rhetoric about this being a disaster for women. What do we call the 40+% of female voters who voted for Trump then?
People presumably more concerned with other parts of Trump's policies, such as defence or the economy as opposed to liberal gender issues perhaps?
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Flagg » 2016-11-09 11:07pm

AniThyng wrote:So I hear a lot of rhetoric about this being a disaster for women. What do we call the 40+% of female voters who voted for Trump then?
Stupid.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by General Brock » 2016-11-09 11:57pm

maraxus2 wrote:
General Brock wrote:snip
I like to think I look better than that in a metal hat. :lol:

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Simon_Jester » 2016-11-10 12:40am

Soontir C'boath wrote:I'm just going to chime in here and say to maraxus, wherever he is, Flagg, Simon, etc. You were all full of shit.
Precisely why?
AniThyng wrote:So I hear a lot of rhetoric about this being a disaster for women. What do we call the 40+% of female voters who voted for Trump then?
I imagine that if Trump were being fully candid, he'd call them something like "useful idiots."
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by K. A. Pital » 2016-11-10 01:23am

aerius wrote:To put it bluntly, TTP and TTIP is essentially an agreement among richer nations for the organized permanent enslavement of poorer nations so that we can enjoy our cheap iShit consumer lifestyle. And it's quite undemocratic as well since the people of the countries proposing the agreement a)never wanted the damn deal, b)have no say as to what's in the deal, c)don't get a vote to approve or reject it. Damn thing might as well have been dropped from up high by The King.

And I know you get it but apparently a bunch of folks don't; Trump can't even begin to do half the shit he's "promised" in his campaign, he's not a DC insider and he doesn't have the full support of his party. And promised is in quotes for a reason, if you actually think he's going to build a giant wall on the Mexican border and make them pay for it, you've fully bought into the mainstream media narrative.

It's classic sell the image and negotiating bluster, what Trump wants is better better border security & immigration control. By opening with a completely outlandish statement he establishes himself as the strong candidate who has the balls to actually do something, and it puts him in the news cycle 24/7. It also means he has a ton of room to negotiate down to what he actually wants, you never open with your final position in a negotiation unless you're fucking stupid.

Seriously. Chill the fuck out. The US government system is deadlock shit and not work, and most of the shit that comes out of Trump's mouth is just there to get a strong emotional response from the audience. He's not going to start a fucking nuclear war that gets all his buildings and real estate nuked till it glows in the dark. He might be a douchebag but he's not a suicidal lunatic.
Thank you aerius, this sums up my feelings almost exactly.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2016-11-10 02:14am

Protests have begun: CNN
Thousands take to the streets to protest Trump win
By Euan McKirdy, Susanna Capelouto and Max Blau, CNN
Updated 1:14 AM ET, Thu November 10, 2016
Donald Trump protests erupt across the US

People across the US protest Trump's victory

Donald Trump protests erupt across the US

Donald Trump effigy burned by protesters

Protester: I wonder how much sexism was at play
chicago trump protest clinton supporter we need you hillary sue the us sot ctn _00012801.jpg
Emotional Clinton supporter: Hillary, sue the US
trump tower protests new york sot ac_00005105.jpg
Protesters: 'Donald Trump is not our president'

People across the US protest Trump's victory
Story highlights
Woman brings sign to Chicago rally wondering why she is still fighting for civil rights
Donald Trump supporters, opponents gather outside White House
(CNN)They chanted anti-Donald Trump slogans. They flooded city streets. They gathered near the White House, disheartened and dismayed.

"Not my President, not today," many across the nation yelled.
In cities from Boston to Los Angeles, thousands of demonstrators gathered Wednesday night in protest of election results that mean the billionaire real estate developer will be the next president.
trump tower protests new york sot ac_00003114
Live: Trump protests in several US cities
As many as 5,000 people were at a protest in New York, police estimated. Among the issues being yelled about outside Trump Tower were immigration and other controversial topics from the campaign.
"I came out here to let go of a lot of fear that was sparked as soon as I saw the results," protester Nick Powers said. He said he feared Trump will support stronger stop-and-frisk policies that would put many people in prison. He was worried that Trump's victory would embolden sexist views.
Protester: I wonder how much sexism was at play

Protester: I wonder how much sexism was at play 02:16
Many of the protests were in cities with large Democratic bases -- in Atlanta; Austin, Texas; Boston; Chicago; Denver; Philadelphia; Portland, Oregon; San Francisco, Seattle and Washington.
In Chicago, people walked down a normally busy Lake Shore Drive carrying signs. Many headed to Upper Wacker Drive, where a crowd was growing near the Trump Tower. CNN's Ryan Young estimated the throng at a few thousand people covering the street for half a mile. Many were using a vulgar chant aimed at the President-elect.
One college student showed CNN a sign that said, "I still can't believe I have to protest for civil rights."
"It's been really frustrating, because as a nation we thought we had come so far but it seems like we're taking many steps back," another woman said, "so we want to come together to change that and make sure we keep going forward."
In Portland, marchers chanted "No Trump, no KKK, no fascist USA" as they trekked through downtown. Protesters in D.C., who headed to the Trump International Hotel, shouted the same slogan. After an earlier solemn gathering at the White House a few dozen young people remained, their cries profane.
Hundred of mostly young Latino protesters marched on Los Angeles City Hall Wednesday night. As the protest grew throughout the night, protesters set on fire a piñata depicting the head of President-elect.
They chanted "I will not live in fear," "Fight back, stand up" and "¡Si se puede!" (Spanish for "It can be done").
Several protesters said they feared that family or friends might be deported once Donald Trump is sworn into office.
Demonstrators gather before the start of a rally against President-elect Donald Trump in Boston on Wednesday.

In downtown Los Angeles, high school students crowded the steps of City Hall on Wednesday afternoon. Protester Brooklyn White was holding a sign that said "Hate won't win." The 18-year-old voted for Hillary Clinton and was disappointed.
"We can't let it stop us. If he's the President then fine, but if Donald Trump is gonna be it then he has to listen," she said.
At Berkeley High School in California, about 1,500 students walked out of classes Wednesday morning. In Des Moines, Iowa it was hundred of high school students who left class to protest of election results. In Phoenix, about 200 students from Carl Hayden High School marched to the state Capitol in protest.
Earlier Wednesday, trash fires burned on an Oakland, California, highway as an illuminated sign in the nation's capital proclaimed that the United States was "better than bigotry." The Oakland Police Department said as many as 6,000 demonstrators had marched in the streets by Wednesday night.
"People are furious not just at the results of the election, but the rhetoric of Donald Trump," Ahmed Kanna, an organizer for Social Alternative Berkeley, told CNN's Don Lemon.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2016-11-10 02:56am

Elfdart wrote:
Broomstick wrote:
FireNexus wrote:This isn't like something out of a fucking nightmare.
Not yet.

Trump has promised to role back the ACA. That could well leave both my spouse and I entirely without health insurance and we simply do not have the money we would need to keep him going. I expect he wouldn't last long after that.
Here's the crux of the matter:

When Obama won much bigger and had bigger majorities in Congress, he was kneecapped from the get-go because the GOP minority stuck together as a group and used every method (filibusters, holds, general dickishness) to gum up the works. Mitch McConnell stated in their caucus that the Republicans' only mission was to block Obama at every turn and try to make him a one-term President. They made sure to show that they did NOT accept the results of the election, with all kinds of drama queen theatrics ("You LIE!").

Democrats need to do likewise, only turning it up to 11. If Charles Schumer, Nancy Pelosi or any other Democrat leaders in Congress can't lead that kind of effort, then they are of no use to anyone.

So when the GOP comes after the ACA, the Dems need to block them. They have the power if only they'd use it.
So I keep hearing democrats saying they will work with trump etc etc.

These useless moron hellfuckers, have they learned nothing from the republicans?
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2016-11-10 02:57am

The Romulan Republic wrote:Yeah, because blocking a couple of trade deals is more important than the basic equality, dignity, and civil liberties of every woman and minority in America, more important than our democratic institutions and the rule of law.

People like you are the problem, Crown.
No, the solution.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by K. A. Pital » 2016-11-10 03:14am

I find it deeply ironic that the same person who speaks about "democratic institutions" seems to be unhappy with the US electoral system. That basically allowed Trump to win.

But hey, I guess democratic institutions are only good when they provide the "correct" and predictable result.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Flagg » 2016-11-10 03:21am

K. A. Pital wrote:I find it deeply ironic that the same person who speaks about "democratic institutions" seems to be unhappy with the US electoral system. That basically allowed Trump to win.

But hey, I guess democratic institutions are only good when they provide the "correct" and predictable result.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2016-11-10 03:22am

Tribble wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:When I look at other countries around the world seeming to be falling like dominoes to Right wing authoritarianism and bigotry, I am profoundly grateful for Justin Trudeau.
IMO a lot of that has to do with mainstream parties ignoring the trends that are obviously in front of them until its too late. Burying your head in the sand and refusing to listen will only get you so far even in politics, and eventually things will end up catching up to you. We're just lucky that after losing several times with typical establishment figures the Liberal Party realised what was going on and acted on it rather than let the trend continue until some extreme group ended up taking over.

Or as Sanders put it:
"Let me be very clear. In my view, Democrats will not retain the White House, will not regain the Senate, will not gain the House and will not be successful in dozens of governor’s races unless we run a campaign which generates excitement and momentum and which produces a huge voter turnout.
With all due respect, and I do not mean to insult anyone here, that will not happen with politics as usual. The same old, same old will not be successful.
The people of our country understand that — given the collapse of the American middle class and the grotesque level of income and wealth inequality we are experiencing — we do not need more establishment politics or establishment economics.
We need a political movement which is prepared to take on the billionaire class and create a government which represents all Americans, and not just corporate America and wealthy campaign donors.
In other words, we need a movement which takes on the economic and political establishment, not one which is part of it."
Although he and Trump were very different people, they both must have noticed the same trend. A pity the rest of Democrats catch on; even if they didn't want him as a candidate, they should have been looking for someone else like him or an Obama type figure rather than Clinton.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Darth Yan » 2016-11-10 03:37am

Thanas wrote:
Crown wrote:
Flagg wrote:He's an Armenian Genocide denier, too.
I always thought that was an urban myth, I've never seen anything myself that could lend credibility to that claim (beyond the linking of the name 'TYT' of course), you sincere?
No it is true about him. Can't remember but I saw him denying it on video - that is also why I no longer watch him.
I think he has apologized recently. His cohost was allowed to run a new story on germany's parliament acknowledging the genocide while denouncing it and showing images of bloody war crimes. Maybe I'm being optimistic but he has somewhat evolved on that stance at the very least

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by K. A. Pital » 2016-11-10 04:26am

Flagg wrote:Who is that?
The Romulan Republic. He seems to have mistaken a problem with voter opinion for a fundamental problem with the democratic mechanism. Trump is not the first douchebag president the US will have. There is no reason to flip out like that.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2016-11-10 04:31am

Cracked manage to write something good for once
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-t ... lks-about/
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2016-11-10 04:33am

I've watched some TYT and they struck me as people living in their own little bubbles, mainly the urban bubble at the center of modern culture and economy, people well off even by western standards.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Joun_Lord » 2016-11-10 05:23am

His Divine Shadow wrote:I've watched some TYT and they struck me as people living in their own little bubbles, mainly the urban bubble at the center of modern culture and economy, people well off even by western standards.
From my own admittedly limited experience people like that are living in their own world though the same tends to be true for rural folk too. The urban rural divide is quite severe, both live in their isolated world with the only exposure to the opposing side slanted news stories and stereotypes. Ask some country people about them there city folk and they will tell you how all city people are diseased, loose people with no morals and no concept of hard work. Ask a city person about a country person and some people will say how their all racists, uneducated, hate filled, bible thumping, violent morons.

For urban dwellers in particular they are kinda.....full of themselves. Not saying rural people aren't either by in my experience both IRL and online it seems like urban people tend to be completely sure of their positions, completely unwilling to see opposing viewpoints, in complete disbelief that anyone would dare hold a differing opinion. The same is true for some rural people but some rural people are also more willing to expand their worldview and see other opinions. Some rural people in increasing numbers are okay with gay marriage, fine with LGBT rights, being more and more socially liberal. But how many urban dwellers give much thought to concerns about gun ownership, economic depression, poor white people living hard scrabble existences or really any thing that matters to someone who don't live in one of them there fancy cities with their strange underground trains and big TVs that be on the sides of buildings? Not really, nothing except to make fun of people for clinging to god and guns not realizing for some people thats all they have fucking left.

That Cracked article does explain quite well I think some of the anger inherent to rural people, the thought that nobody gives a shit, the reason why some people were willing to stab themselves in the balls with toothpicks and vote for Donald Trump.

If them there city folk had a bit more compassion and understanding for their toothless cousin fucking brethren living up hollers drinking moonshine and RC cola while watching NASCAR and I dunno, maybe stop with the accepted quasi-racist (culturist?) bullshit that paints all rural people as such we would not be in this horribly horrible mind numbingly insane situation where a loud mouthed RINO moron is the next President of Murica. That and some jobs for areas such as that probably couldn't hurt. Jobs other then making drugs and taking them.

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