The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

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The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Dalton » 2016-10-17 11:59am

October 17, 2016 as of the date of this post. It is 22 days until Election Day. Donald Trump has regularly trailed Hillary Clinton by a wide margin, and 538 currently has her at an 88% to win the election. Trump has pulled advertising from Virginia, essentially ceding the state to Clinton, and Arizona, Georgia and Utah are rapidly becoming swing states, with HRC making a $2M ad buy in AZ and sending Michelle Obama to campaign for her there.

For Trump, the outlook is bleak. Rumor has it that his son-in-law met with an investor regarding a possible Trump TV network, driving speculation about whether his current meltdown is real or staged for the benefit of such a network. With Ailes and Hannity in his pocket, he'd have a strong start. The good news for the GOP is that Trump isn't dragging down the downballot races as much as feared, but the Democrats have a 68% chance of retaking the Senate, and will definitely make gains in the House.

3 weeks to go. Trump is in full meltdown, trying to distract from sexual abuse allegations while blustering about a rigged election, while Wikileaks is releasing Podesta's emails a bit at a time with no overall effect so far on Clinton. The last debate is on Wednesday and sparks will fly. Here we go...
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Flagg » 2016-10-17 12:05pm

Terralthra and Dragon Angel:

Yes, damn them for being good citizens and putting aside core differences while repairing their political rivals local HQ and coming together as a United front, assuring that rather than pushing them apart, as the asshole who did this assumingly hoped for, it blew up in his/her face (WAKKA WAKKA) and both sides put aside thier differences to work in tandem engendering some good will.

And since the Republicans have consistently been dickholes regarding past incidents of firebombings and vandalism at Democratic HQs it just makes the democrats look like the better group of people.

But no, they disagree with me on a certain serious issue so fuck 'em!
Last edited by Flagg on 2016-10-17 12:09pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Terralthra » 2016-10-17 12:09pm

Flagg wrote:Terralthra and Dragon Angel:

Yes, damn them for being good citizens and putting aside core differences while repairing their political rivals local HQ and coming together as a United front, assuring that rather than pushing them apart, as the asshole who did this assumingly hoped for it, blew up in their faces (WAKKA WAKKA).

And since the Republicans have consistently been dickholes regarding past incidents of firebombings and vandalism at Democratic HQs it just makes the democrats look like the better group of people.

But no, they disagree with me on a certain serious issue so fuck 'em!
Their political rivals have insurance, oh, and a buttload of money. And, I repeat, the office was unoccupied. If your money is burning a hole in your pocket, maybe you could support all the actual humans the NC GOP has repeatedly hurt, like black people they have tried to disenfranchise and trans people they have endangered. When you donate a fuckload of money to rebuild this office, you're saying that you prioritize damage to your political opponents' property over human lives. I repeat: fuck those people.

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Flagg » 2016-10-17 12:11pm

You sound like a typical vindictive Republican. And insurances have co-pay.

Also it's hilarious that you seem to think helping a political opponent = Stop fighting for your beliefs and the rights of others. People like you are why we have a mindless middle.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Terralthra » 2016-10-17 12:19pm

Flagg wrote:You sound like a typical vindictive Republican. And insurances have co-pay.

Also it's hilarious that you seem to think helping a political opponent = Stop fighting for your beliefs and the rights of others. People like you are why we have a mindless middle.
The mindless middle are the Democrats spending money to repair their political opponents' offices after said opponents tried, literally, to disenfranchise Democratic constituents, repeatedly. How do you think NC trans people who can't use a fucking public bathroom feel right now about Democratic donations to repair the NC GOP's office?

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Dragon Angel » 2016-10-17 12:20pm

I should note too that the Republicans are going to continue anyway as if this moment of generosity never happened. Look at them ignoring all the Arab communities trying to root out radical elements. You don't hear a lot about those, right?

Also "a certain serious issue" yeah, being jailed for trying to use a bathroom is a little too damn serious for me to just handwave away like it's nothing. Very sorry for not tearing up over the people literally saying I shouldn't be able to pee. Actually, no I'm not.

Vindictive, I guess I am? Oops, I'm the real immoral actor for not wanting to care about the bigots suffering some property damage. This isn't a fucking binary "if you don't support donations then you support bombings!!" proposition. I'm not excited about this "push for unity" so therefore I AM RAGEY VINDICTIVE RARR? Fuck you.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Flagg » 2016-10-17 12:30pm

Dragon Angel wrote:I should note too that the Republicans are going to continue anyway as if this moment of generosity never happened. Look at them ignoring all the Arab communities trying to root out radical elements. You don't hear a lot about those, right?

Also "a certain serious issue" yeah, being jailed for trying to use a bathroom is a little too damn serious for me to just handwave away like it's nothing. Very sorry for not tearing up over the people literally saying I shouldn't be able to pee. Actually, no I'm not.

Vindictive, I guess I am? Oops, I'm the real immoral actor for not wanting to care about the bigots suffering some property damage. This isn't a fucking binary "if you don't support donations then you support bombings!!" proposition. I'm not excited about this "push for unity" so therefore I AM RAGEY VINDICTIVE RARR? Fuck you.
I'm not saying you're both being vindictive because you're not taking part, you're being vindictive because you view an opportunity to make inroads of cooperation that may (probably not, but may) help our human rights issues in the future as collaboration with THE ENEMY. But by all means, fling more shit at the NC Democrats for being decent human beings.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Dragon Angel » 2016-10-17 12:46pm

The GOP of pretty much every jurisdiction has not given me any sign they will make progress toward cooperation or rights for trans people, and has not with their actions for the past 8 years. I have absolutely no confidence they will ever in the foreseeable future, not unless God Himself sends them a direct message and even then I don't believe they'll budge. I view thinking this gesture will affect anything at all as terminally naive, at best, and assisting bigots in oppressing us further, at worst.

I see charities and support groups for LGBTs often underfunded and this is what is given all the attention? Whatever, these people can donate and feel as "good" about it as much as they wish, but then they have no right to say afterward that they have "no resources available" to assist the people the NC GOP are marginalizing every day.

I'm also completely over the whole concept of "we must love the bigots that want us dead". The bigots have to prove that they are deserving of this love from us. This isn't being partisan. This is just wanting to actually live a normal life without lawmakers wanting to sacrifice us to the prison system.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Lagmonster » 2016-10-17 01:36pm

FireNexus wrote:I just have trouble believing that radical enough lefties to firebomb a building are that all in for the Democratic Party. But you're probably right.
Never assume someone who votes the same way you do isn't a monster. The worst threats I ever received over political and/or moral issues have been from Liberal-voting left wingers.
Dragon Angel wrote:Vindictive, I guess I am?
Your attitude will just ensure that your opponents have a solid reason to hate you when they're politically ascendant in the future. Assholery has to stop somewhere; might as well be with you.

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Dragon Angel » 2016-10-17 01:59pm

Lagmonster wrote:Your attitude will just ensure that your opponents have a solid reason to hate you when they're politically ascendant in the future. Assholery has to stop somewhere; might as well be with you.
See, that's the thing. I could be as nice as I possibly can to transphobes, but they'll still find any reason they could to try to discredit me and my humanity. Actually I have tried that in the past, to...no success. No matter what I do, they will still seek out reasons to believe I'm a demon.

Why should I even try to be friends when they won't bother to make concessions in return? Their calling has gone beyond trying to be human and neighborly. Their calling is personal prejudice no well-intentioned actions of mine will ever change, and they've demonstrated they will never self-reflect upon. Here on this board, we operate on logic so of course most of us don't see any logical basis upon which this prejudice exists, but the people I talk about have tossed out reason ages ago.

I'm far from being the only trans person who feels this way. Trans people have just been buttfucked by liberals and conservatives everywhere and as much as I'd love for us all to be in harmonious partnership, we've just grown cynical of it ever happening in the future. Thus, our negative attitudes toward this.
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I would not be just a nothin', my head all full of stuffin', my heart all full of pain.
I would dance and be merry, life would be would be a ding-a-derry, if I only had a brain!"

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Flagg » 2016-10-17 02:23pm

Lagmonster wrote:
FireNexus wrote:I just have trouble believing that radical enough lefties to firebomb a building are that all in for the Democratic Party. But you're probably right.
Never assume someone who votes the same way you do isn't a monster. The worst threats I ever received over political and/or moral issues have been from Liberal-voting left wingers.
Dragon Angel wrote:Vindictive, I guess I am?
Your attitude will just ensure that your opponents have a solid reason to hate you when they're politically ascendant in the future. Assholery has to stop somewhere; might as well be with you.
Exactly. And it's not even necessarily to turn the Republicans whose HQ was firebombed into left leaning Democrats, but maybe people on the fence will see that and listen to Democrats instead of closing their eyes with fingers in ears.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by FireNexus » 2016-10-17 02:28pm

Lagmonster wrote:Never assume someone who votes the same way you do isn't a monster. The worst threats I ever received over political and/or moral issues have been from Liberal-voting left wingers.
I'm not saying people who are left can't be monsters. I'm saying that the nature of left politics in America is such that lefties who get radicalized believe the Democrats and Republicans are largely the same. Firebombing a GOP office is outside of the usual MO of Democratic partisans.

I could see it being a radical black lives matter or trans rights activist, who clearly believe the GOP is worse on the issues important to them, but the target in question is otherwise (and even still) outside of the normal range of targets for attacks from American left-wing radicals in most cases.

That's why a false flag seems a compelling theory in this case. Besides the use of the swastika, which implies a white nationalist who doesn't quite get it. We'll find out when ATF gets finished, but I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that way. I don't think it's the most likely based on most other historical indicators, but I think this isn't a normal political period so who knows?
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Dragon Angel » 2016-10-17 02:29pm

We're all talking about symbolism and gestures, but consider: How many times has the GOP responded positively to concessions or generosity by Democrats in the past? When trying to pass the ACA, for example? How many times have the Democrats compromised to the GOP in an effort to try to be "fair"? How effective has that actually been? Why should we think this will make any difference at all?

It's not like we're operating on zero historical precedent. We already know the results of trying to compromise or cooperate: Nothing.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by FireNexus » 2016-10-17 02:32pm

Dragon Angel wrote:
Lagmonster wrote:Your attitude will just ensure that your opponents have a solid reason to hate you when they're politically ascendant in the future. Assholery has to stop somewhere; might as well be with you.
See, that's the thing. I could be as nice as I possibly can to transphobes, but they'll still find any reason they could to try to discredit me and my humanity. Actually I have tried that in the past, to...no success. No matter what I do, they will still seek out reasons to believe I'm a demon.
The transphobic assholes aren't the target audience. The people watching the interaction are. If you refuse to comment or cheer on violence, then the observers who haven't formed an opinion will assume you're the same type just in a different hat.

It's clearly something that causes you serious emotional turmoil, but if you want people to decide that you occupy the moral high ground against hateful or shitty people who are like them in the way you're not, you have to occupy unreasonably high moral ground. It sucks. It should 't be that way. But it is.

Edit: And I should note, this strategy has been very effective for minority and gay rights. Going full asshole because your opponent did too just doesn't WORK. Turning the other cheek and loving your enemy as yourself DOES. It just takes a long while. And we're at the beginning of the battle for trans rights, for sure.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Dragon Angel » 2016-10-17 02:42pm

FireNexus wrote:The transphobic assholes aren't the target audience. The people watching the interaction are. If you refuse to comment or cheer on violence, then the observers who haven't formed an opinion will assume you're the same type just in a different hat.
Yeah, again, I'm not approving of the bombing at all. I do feel incredibly sad that this is being given a lot more attention than organizations aiming to help trans people and other marginalized groups. Disapproving of these donations is not supporting the bombing act in any way and people who would think this about trans folks have other problematic biases they need to work out first.
FireNexus wrote:Edit: And I should note, this strategy has been very effective for minority and gay rights. Going full asshole because your opponent did too just doesn't WORK. Turning the other cheek and loving your enemy as yourself DOES. It just takes a long while. And we're at the beginning of the battle for trans rights, for sure.
Even MLK grew incredibly frustrated with the mindless middle after a while, and that's often forgotten. This anger is not something we can just easily live with, and it's expecting us to be perfect saints when that just is not possible.
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And my head I'd be scratchin', while my thoughts were busy hatchin', if I only had a brain!
I would not be just a nothin', my head all full of stuffin', my heart all full of pain.
I would dance and be merry, life would be would be a ding-a-derry, if I only had a brain!"

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Flagg » 2016-10-17 02:52pm

Dragon Angel wrote:We're all talking about symbolism and gestures, but consider: How many times has the GOP responded positively to concessions or generosity by Democrats in the past? When trying to pass the ACA, for example? How many times have the Democrats compromised to the GOP in an effort to try to be "fair"? How effective has that actually been? Why should we think this will make any difference at all?

It's not like we're operating on zero historical precedent. We already know the results of trying to compromise or cooperate: Nothing.
Giving up parts of the ACA "to be fair"? :lol:

They were giving up parts of it to get it passed, and even then it barely squeaked by after dropping the public option, thanks to that turncoat Lieberman.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by FireNexus » 2016-10-17 02:53pm

Nobody's expecting you to be a saint. We're expecting you to realize that problems stemming from prejudice against an out group are never solved unless they act better than those prejudiced against them. And never without incremental improvement.

It sucks, and I don't have any idea what that feels like. But this isn't "supporting the GOP". And if it is, it's a minor level of support compared to what it buys. It buys the appearance that liberals and Democrats don't condone the violence, and occupy the moral high ground.

By condemning the donations, you are tacitly supporting the bombing. You are saying that when an apparent member of our side instigates an unprovoked attack on the other side, the other side should be given no quarter. No basic decency should be tolerated, when we're the ones who did it. That is the kind of thinking that leads to entrenched polarization.

It's the kind of thinking that leads to increased violence against everyone, but particularly people like you. Martin Luther King got frustrated, but he didn't start bombing southern Democrats. And when other people in the civil rights movement did, guess who ended up dragged behind cars? You might think it's bad, but it has been and can get worse.

You don't have to donate, but don't condemn it like it's supporting evil.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by FireNexus » 2016-10-17 02:56pm

(For recent personal reasons, I'm somewhat unreceptive to sympathy for the idea that the most effective strategy is hard or uncomfortable, and therefore abandoning it is excusable.)
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Dragon Angel » 2016-10-17 03:51pm

FireNexus wrote:Nobody's expecting you to be a saint. We're expecting you to realize that problems stemming from prejudice against an out group are never solved unless they act better than those prejudiced against them. And never without incremental improvement.

It sucks, and I don't have any idea what that feels like. But this isn't "supporting the GOP". And if it is, it's a minor level of support compared to what it buys. It buys the appearance that liberals and Democrats don't condone the violence, and occupy the moral high ground.
Bet you $100 that Trump and almost every GOP conservative will forget about this graceful act in a month. Same with the mindless middle.

And honestly, this is like, the fifth time I've been told "we should act better than our oppressors" on this board. Every time, I've asked, what have we been doing besides voicing our frustrations that make us on the same level as them, or worse? Is literally the act of being vocal about this making us as bad as the people who want to ban us from being legally recognized, or want to ban us from even being able to pee without being jailed?

Can we not admit there is a gigantic problem with that thought process?
FireNexus wrote:By condemning the donations, you are tacitly supporting the bombing. You are saying that when an apparent member of our side instigates an unprovoked attack on the other side, the other side should be given no quarter. No basic decency should be tolerated, when we're the ones who did it. That is the kind of thinking that leads to entrenched polarization.
Using the Arab community example, Muslims have been expected to apologize for radical Islamists for years, and it's gotten them so far that the GOP nominee for President is calling--with huge support!--for a ban on Muslims in the US. Forgive me if I don't have confidence the GOP or undecided independents will see the light on leftists not being evil to be purged.

I mean, if they have been trying, I would be singing a different tune right now. I would be a lot more moderate than I am now. But lately the right hasn't actually shown me they are willing to listen. The undecided independents are such a wild card that I'd be hedging too much of an emotional bet to count on them. Thanks to the state of US politics, it's gotten to the point where ceding ground to the right wing ends up maintaining a destructive status quo or nearly regressing our development, as the continual fight to maintain the ACA, abortion rights, et. al. demonstrate.
FireNexus wrote:It's the kind of thinking that leads to increased violence against everyone, but particularly people like you. Martin Luther King got frustrated, but he didn't start bombing southern Democrats. And when other people in the civil rights movement did, guess who ended up dragged behind cars? You might think it's bad, but it has been and can get worse.

You don't have to donate, but don't condemn it like it's supporting evil.
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

No, I don't think the act alone is committing evil. It does betray a weakness that many have witnessed for a very long time. How many times have I seen activist groups and support for LGBTs, people of color, etc. fundraisers fail? How many times have I seen friends, friends of friends, and strangers of marginalized groups fail in their fundraisers to raise them from homelessness, get their required surgeries, etcetera? It's such a freaking slap in the face to see the very group that is trying to outlaw our existences in its own state get so much attention and funding, and yet, all those fundraisers I've mentioned go unnoticed, or deemed not important enough for consideration.

I just can't anymore. I'm too cynical and jaded to take this seriously. I loathe the term, but for the lack of a better one, this is probably the closest to "virtue signaling" I can ever think of. Actual human beings, like Terralthra is saying, are being ignored in favor of an establishment that is making those humans' lives as hellish as it possibly could.
Flagg wrote:Giving up parts of the ACA "to be fair"? :lol:

They were giving up parts of it to get it passed, and even then it barely squeaked by after dropping the public option, thanks to that turncoat Lieberman.
I get the "to be fair" from all the calling for "bipartisan deals" that Obama and every other Democrat have tried to hawk for years. I'm sure people here remember this...
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And my head I'd be scratchin', while my thoughts were busy hatchin', if I only had a brain!
I would not be just a nothin', my head all full of stuffin', my heart all full of pain.
I would dance and be merry, life would be would be a ding-a-derry, if I only had a brain!"

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Alyrium Denryle » 2016-10-17 04:12pm

Terralthra wrote:
Flagg wrote:Terralthra and Dragon Angel:

Yes, damn them for being good citizens and putting aside core differences while repairing their political rivals local HQ and coming together as a United front, assuring that rather than pushing them apart, as the asshole who did this assumingly hoped for it, blew up in their faces (WAKKA WAKKA).

And since the Republicans have consistently been dickholes regarding past incidents of firebombings and vandalism at Democratic HQs it just makes the democrats look like the better group of people.

But no, they disagree with me on a certain serious issue so fuck 'em!
Their political rivals have insurance, oh, and a buttload of money. And, I repeat, the office was unoccupied. If your money is burning a hole in your pocket, maybe you could support all the actual humans the NC GOP has repeatedly hurt, like black people they have tried to disenfranchise and trans people they have endangered. When you donate a fuckload of money to rebuild this office, you're saying that you prioritize damage to your political opponents' property over human lives. I repeat: fuck those people.
It is a sound political move. The republicans WILL and ARE spinning this as being centrally directed, and they WILL use it as an excuse for reprisals. At this point, it is good for the local democrats to do everything they can to distance themselves from the nutbar who did the firebombing and show that they are better people. Particularly because I suspect history is watching this election and the democratic party does NOT want to be the one seen as using violence first. It might not be important this year, but 5, 10, 15 years from now, when people are studying this election? Then it becomes important.

Think of it like this. It is a short term investment of resources that yes in the short run could go to other things. But the long-term dividends have the potential to be fairly large.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Dragon Angel » 2016-10-17 04:21pm

I'm going to withdraw from this argument because I've been having a shitty week that is just continuing and not relenting. My closing statement will just be: If you think this is a good act, please, find groups, charities, and such that support marginalized peoples. Find fundraisers for marginalized people to regain some sense of stability in their lives, possibly even for lifechanging and lifesaving surgeries. If one has money to donate to the GOP, then one surely has money to donate to underfunded and understaffed groups to support us or directly to us.
"I could while away the hours, conferrin' with the flowers, consultin' with the rain.
And my head I'd be scratchin', while my thoughts were busy hatchin', if I only had a brain!
I would not be just a nothin', my head all full of stuffin', my heart all full of pain.
I would dance and be merry, life would be would be a ding-a-derry, if I only had a brain!"

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by FireNexus » 2016-10-17 04:29pm

Dragon Angel wrote:Bet you $100 that Trump and almost every GOP conservative will forget about this graceful act in a month. Same with the mindless middle.
You brought up Martin Luther King. Nearly 50 years after his death, he's still remembered as a hero by he middle and even by most Republicans. Maybe not every peaceful civil rights activist is remembered, but their movements worked.
Can we not admit there is a gigantic problem with that thought process?
We're not discussing whether it's right that you're discriminated against. We're not discussing even whether it's right that you have to behave this way to affect change. But you can't just waive away the fact that you have to convince at lest people who have no skin in the game regarding your rights (the "mindless middle", many of which I'm sure are convinced by your attitude). Those people need to support you in order for you to get what you want. If you give them a reason not to (say, approving the firebombing of your political opponents, which you have tacitly endorsed by your stance) then you will not get your rights. King knew this. Now black people can vote. Anthony knew this, now so can women.

You're making it "us vs them" and everyone who's not already actively your ally becomes "them". You can argue about whether it's right. But I thought you wanted your rights, and not a perfect society where you don't have to eat shit sometimes to achieve your goals.
Using the Arab community example, Muslims have been expected to apologize for radical Islamists for years, and it's gotten them so far that the GOP nominee for President is calling--with huge support!--for a ban on Muslims in the US. Forgive me if I don't have confidence the GOP or undecided independents will see the light on leftists not being evil to be purged.
Funny, that candidate is losing independents by a wide margin. Public opinion is WAY against that proposal. Shit, even his own supporters don't think he's serious.

It's unarguable that Muslims get a shitty end of the stick in this country. But if Muslims started saying that it was immoral to provide support for victims of Islamic terrorism who haven't been nice to Muslims, where do you think they'd be?
I mean, if they have been trying, I would be singing a different tune right now. I would be a lot more moderate than I am now. But lately the right hasn't actually shown me they are willing to listen. The undecided independents are such a wild card that I'd be hedging too much of an emotional bet to count on them. Thanks to the state of US politics, it's gotten to the point where ceding ground to the right wing ends up maintaining a destructive status quo or nearly regressing our development, as the continual fight to maintain the ACA, abortion rights, et. al. demonstrate.
Nobody is talking about ceding policy ground, numb nuts. We're talking about condemning allies who are collecting money to aid people who have been victims of a terrorist attack because they happen to be ideological opponents. Whether or not you think the GOP is a bunch of monsters, you are taking side with a terrorist. You are endorsing the terrorist attack.

Remind me again how the "mindless middle" feels about legislation protection for those who side with terrorists?
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
...is what dumbasses say to justify having bad intentions.
No, I don't think the act alone is committing evil. It does betray a weakness that many have witnessed for a very long time. How many times have I seen activist groups and support for LGBTs, people of color, etc. fundraisers fail? How many times have I seen friends, friends of friends, and strangers of marginalized groups fail in their fundraisers to raise them from homelessness, get their required surgeries, etcetera? It's such a freaking slap in the face to see the very group that is trying to outlaw our existences in its own state get so much attention and funding, and yet, all those fundraisers I've mentioned go unnoticed, or deemed not important enough for consideration.
Boohoo. You know how you can crater the already low success rate of those types of fundraisers? Associate your movement with terrorist attacks against your ideological opponents. You're advocating not takin precautions to avoid exposure to tuberculosis because you already got AIDS.
I just can't anymore. I'm too cynical and jaded to take this seriously. I loathe the term, but for the lack of a better one, this is probably the closest to "virtue signaling" I can ever think of. Actual human beings, like Terralthra is saying, are being ignored in favor of an establishment that is making those humans' lives as hellish as it possibly could.
No. People are just better at the game than you. Because if this virtue signaling doesn't go down, the "mindless middle" are going to start joinin up with your enemy in droves. It's hard to get them as allies by pointing out subtle, long-term human rights violations. It's easy to by pointing out how your opponent is a violent danger to their "mindless middle" way of life. By supporting the victims of a terrorist attack, you are signaling that the ultimately self-destructive act of political terrorism is not supported by you.

By decrying that signal, you are supporting political terrorism. And whatever gains you think are reasonably possible will go over the horizon due to failing public support. I get that you're probably pretty young and you've probably been discriminated against and dehumanized your entire life. And that sucks. And I'm with you in terms of wanting that to stop.

But it's not going to stop anytime soon. And if you want the best possible chance of that happening, your appetite for shit is going to have to get bigger, because you'll need to eat a lot of it.

This is not, again, about whether the GOP is a kind and just organization. It's about whether you want your movement to be the put upon, oppressed minority peacefully fighting for their rights and justice, or the terrorists fire-bombing buildings. I'm sorry you're tired, but if you want your rights you can't stop.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by Dragon Angel » 2016-10-17 04:40pm

Yeah, fuck this. I've been trying to be understanding of the other side as much as possible yet I'm still being accused of endorsing terrorism. Not being confident your enemy will be gracious is not endorsing terrorism, and you can fuck off with that.
"I could while away the hours, conferrin' with the flowers, consultin' with the rain.
And my head I'd be scratchin', while my thoughts were busy hatchin', if I only had a brain!
I would not be just a nothin', my head all full of stuffin', my heart all full of pain.
I would dance and be merry, life would be would be a ding-a-derry, if I only had a brain!"

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by MKSheppard » 2016-10-17 04:48pm

Hey Mr. Bean, don't you feel special?

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"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944

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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

Post by FireNexus » 2016-10-17 05:07pm

Dragon Angel wrote:Yeah, fuck this. I've been trying to be understanding of the other side as much as possible yet I'm still being accused of endorsing terrorism. Not being confident your enemy will be gracious is not endorsing terrorism, and you can fuck off with that.
When you say "this enemy is so bad that it is unethical to donate to them to help recover from an act of terrorism apparently committed by our allies" you are endorsing the act of terrorism. You're saying "They don't deserve our help in cleaning up an act of terrorism committed by our allies" which you may think is functionally different from supporting terrorism, but it's not.

Your words say "I do not support this abhorrent act of terrorism" but your actions, in denouncing attempts to assist the victims of terrorism, say "Bombs away."

You can ignore that and run away all you like. But it's a fact. You are openly denouncing behavior designed to signal to terrorists that their behavior is not endorsed by those with a shared political ideology. And even if my interpretation is overly harsh, it has the virtue of being how the people who you need to convince to vote in favor of your rights will view it.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.

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