Attacking Human rights activists makes for strange bedfellows

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Ace Pace
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Attacking Human rights activists makes for strange bedfellows

Post by Ace Pace »

So you're a rich Arab country that wants to spy on your own citizens but you don't have the tech. What do you do? You buy from the one of the world's most unregulated arms dealers, Israel.
FP wrote: When a government seeks to rein in a political opponent by listening in on his calls, reading his text messages, and spying on his meetings, how do they go about doing so? In the case of the United Arab Emirates and pro-democracy activist Ahmed Mansoor, they sent him a short text message.

“New secrets about torture of Emiratis in state prisons,” the Aug. 10 and 11 SMS messages to Mansoor read. The texts included a link, and had Mansoor clicked it, his phone would have turned into a powerful surveillance tool for an entity that researchers believe is the Emirati government. Pegasus, the software used against Mansoor, allows its operator to record phone calls and intercept text messages, including those made or sent on nominally encrypted apps such as Viber and WhatsApp. It can mine contact books and read emails. The software can also track its subject’s movements and even remotely turn on the phone’s camera and microphone.
The article continues and anyone interested in technical details can look at this link.

I find it interesting that today, any 3rd rate country can build up a technical surveillance organisation that would have the Russians or East Germans ecstatic yet it doesn't seem like you can hire actual analysts to do the thinking for you. On the other hand, it's quite heartening to see how most American tech companies are actively avoiding helping the government and making it far harder for countries like the UAE to keep track of their citizens.

It's an interesting arms race technically but it seems to be a losing proposition on the policy level, as self-censorship really is flourishing. Or maybe I lack perspective and things are getting better.



On a quite personal note, I have a huge measure of schadenfreude and I hope that company goes down in flames and frees up all the people working there to work for better places.
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Re: Attacking Human rights activists makes for strange bedfellows

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Ace Pace wrote: [snip] and anyone interested in technical details can look at this link.
You do have a sense of irony, don't you?
On a quite personal note, I have a huge measure of schadenfreude and I hope that company goes down in flames and frees up all the people working there to work for better places.
Blessed be, cuz.
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Re: Attacking Human rights activists makes for strange bedfellows

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Khaat wrote:
Ace Pace wrote: [snip] and anyone interested in technical details can look at this link.
You do have a sense of irony, don't you?
:?:
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Re: Attacking Human rights activists makes for strange bedfellows

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"Here's a story about a link that could have led to some really nasty outcome - here's a link"
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Re: Attacking Human rights activists makes for strange bedfellows

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Ace Pace wrote: I find it interesting that today, any 3rd rate country can build up a technical surveillance organisation that would have the Russians or East Germans ecstatic yet it doesn't seem like you can hire actual analysts to do the thinking for you. On the other hand, it's quite heartening to see how most American tech companies are actively avoiding helping the government and making it far harder for countries like the UAE to keep track of their citizens.
Oh, what would be most American tech companies? You don' think google and facebook = most do you? And that's being generous about those jackasses

It's an interesting arms race technically but it seems to be a losing proposition on the policy level, as self-censorship really is flourishing. Or maybe I lack perspective and things are getting better.
That's why the East Germans relied on human informants to the tune of as much as 20% of the population on some level. It's not about technology not yet existing, it's about the fact that human intelligence placed close to the source will always be superior to a technological solution. Self censorship is useful to these regimes to a point, but it's not what they want. They want opposition destroyed, appeased or manipulated into becoming integral supporters, not suppressed. Suppression is how you get Libya and Syria in 2011.

Anyway end of the day I think the world is getting better. But I take a view of 50-100 years on that. On those scales nothing in the past 5-10 years suggests anything dire is happening. Frankly I think most of the angst of late is only utter morons waking up to a reality that was already blindingly obviously, but still hardly on par with what was utterly openly normal not that long ago. In that respect technology has been good.

On a quite personal note, I have a huge measure of schadenfreude and I hope that company goes down in flames and frees up all the people working there to work for better places.
They go down in flames and 30 other companies will take their place, but with the advantage of being more relative unknowns. Security companies in fact fold intentionally all the time to help themselves evade detection. I trust no security save things I physically control, in physical form, and that isn't much. But then I'm unusual, I grew up knowing things like TEMPEST were real, not sci fi, before I was ever on the internet. That a phone call could be intercepted without someone even touching the damn wires. People who think shit like digital phones could ever be secure are fools. Maybe some day, but certainly not now.
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Re: Attacking Human rights activists makes for strange bedfellows

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Sea Skimmer wrote:
Ace Pace wrote: I find it interesting that today, any 3rd rate country can build up a technical surveillance organisation that would have the Russians or East Germans ecstatic yet it doesn't seem like you can hire actual analysts to do the thinking for you. On the other hand, it's quite heartening to see how most American tech companies are actively avoiding helping the government and making it far harder for countries like the UAE to keep track of their citizens.
Oh, what would be most American tech companies? You don' think google and facebook = most do you? And that's being generous about those jackasses
Yes, in terms of internet traffic in foreign nations, the Big 5 are mostly all that matters.


They go down in flames and 30 other companies will take their place, but with the advantage of being more relative unknowns. Security companies in fact fold intentionally all the time to help themselves evade detection. I trust no security save things I physically control, in physical form, and that isn't much. But then I'm unusual, I grew up knowing things like TEMPEST were real, not sci fi, before I was ever on the internet. That a phone call could be intercepted without someone even touching the damn wires. People who think shit like digital phones could ever be secure are fools. Maybe some day, but certainly not now.
All of that is very true but considering I'm simply far more personally familiar with this company and it's local competitors, I can't help but have personal feelings of joy.
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Re: Attacking Human rights activists makes for strange bedfellows

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How exactly are Google and Facebook helping people to avoid surveillance? Wanna know more about that. Doesn't seem to be the case to me, at least from experience.

Maybe they just help citizens of Arab countries, but nobody else?
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Re: Attacking Human rights activists makes for strange bedfellows

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K. A. Pital wrote:How exactly are Google and Facebook helping people to avoid surveillance? Wanna know more about that. Doesn't seem to be the case to me, at least from experience.

Maybe they just help citizens of Arab countries, but nobody else?
I interpreted what he said to mean that those two big companies are surveilling the shit out of the people who use their products.

I bet a government could make pretty decent use of the information that Facebook makes available for free. It wouldn't be specific to a person or likely even a group but it could give them a heads up on things in their society they might want to look into, if they figure out how to mine the data properly.
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Re: Attacking Human rights activists makes for strange bedfellows

Post by Elheru Aran »

Tsyroc wrote: I bet a government could make pretty decent use of the information that Facebook makes available for free. It wouldn't be specific to a person or likely even a group but it could give them a heads up on things in their society they might want to look into, if they figure out how to mine the data properly.
You think they don't already?

It's really not that hard to look up a Facebook page, flip through whatever is publicly available, and look through their friends list. Boom, in about 10 minutes you can probably get their father's middle name, the name of their first pet, the first make and model of car that they owned, and you can get the password to just about every login they have (as long as the user is also known of course).

And like... what... 95%? 98%? of people on Facebook don't bother setting *anything* to private.
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Re: Attacking Human rights activists makes for strange bedfellows

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Elheru Aran wrote: You think they don't already?

It's really not that hard to look up a Facebook page, flip through whatever is publicly available, and look through their friends list. Boom, in about 10 minutes you can probably get their father's middle name, the name of their first pet, the first make and model of car that they owned, and you can get the password to just about every login they have (as long as the user is also known of course).

And like... what... 95%? 98%? of people on Facebook don't bother setting *anything* to private.
Good point. I was focusing too much on all of the marketing information that is available in the broad sense that I forgot that in pointing them towards f "certain types/groups of people" that they could look at a great many of the people who fit that criteria and get very specific for the exact reasons you mention.
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