Attempted Trump assassination

[Beowulf]

LAS VEGAS (AP) — A British man arrested at a weekend Donald Trump rally in Las Vegas tried to grab a police officer's gun so he could kill the presidential candidate after planning an assassination for about a year, according to authorities.

U.S. Secret Service agents said Michael Steven Sandford approached a Las Vegas police officer at the campaign stop to say he wanted Trump's autograph, but that he then tried to take the weapon.

A complaint filed Monday in U.S. District Court in Nevada charges Sandford, 20, with an act of violence on restricted grounds. He was denied bail during a court appearance later in the day. His court-appointed attorney said he was living out of his car and in the country illegally after overstaying a visa.

Sanford has not entered a plea.

The arrest happened relatively quietly at a campaign stop seen as peaceful compared to the mayhem at the presumptive Republican nominee's recent events in San Jose, California, and Albuquerque, New Mexico.

Gregg Donovan was among about 1,500 gathered Saturday to see Trump at the Treasure Island casino on the Las Vegas Strip. For the event, he donned the top hat and red jacket that made him recognizable in his former job as swanky Beverly Hills' official greeter for more than a decade.

Donovan said he didn't know about the charge against Sanford until he saw news reports. But he recognized him because the two had stood in line together for nine hours waiting to get into the Trump event. Sanford even held Donovan's spot in line for a bathroom break.

"I was No. 5, and he was No. 4," Donovan said.

They spoke, Donovan said, though Sanford didn't say much and seemed "strange." Donovan didn't elaborate on what made Sanford seem odd.

After waiting, they passed through metal detectors manned by Secret Service, police and casino security officials.

Federal Magistrate Judge George Foley said in court Monday that Sandford was a potential danger to the community and a flight risk. Sandford wore leg irons and appeared to tremble during the hearing.

Heather Fraley, his assigned public defender, said Sandford appeared to be competent. She said he hadn't been diagnosed with a mental illness but that he has autism and previously attempted suicide. He doesn't have a job.

Sanford's mother told court researchers that he was treated for obsessive compulsive disorder and anorexia when he was younger, and that he once ran away from a hospital in England, according to the public defender.

Fraley argued that Sandford should go to a halfway house because he didn't have a criminal history, but the judge said he should stay in detention ahead of a July 5 court date.

Agents said Sandford told them he had been in the U.S. for about a year and a half, lived in Hoboken, New Jersey, and drove to the San Bernardino, California, area before coming to Las Vegas on June 16.

Sandford told officers he was convinced he would die in the assassination attempt. He said he also reserved a ticket for a Trump rally in Phoenix, scheduled for later Saturday, as a backup plan.

The criminal complaint said Sandford was arrested after grabbing the handle of an officer's gun while trying to remove it from a holster.

Sanford told authorities that he went to the Battlefield Vegas shooting range the day before the rally and fired 20 rounds from a 9mm Glock pistol to learn how to use it. Police detectives who visited the range spoke with an employee who confirmed that he provided Sandford shooting lessons, according to the complaint signed by Secret Service Special Agent Joseph Hall.

Stupid assassination plan, but was an assassination plot nonetheless.

[The Romulan Republic]

Needless to say, I'm glad that the asshole was stopped. We don't need our politics carried out with violence. We need Trump to be crushed at the polls, repudiated by the American people, not made a martyr for fascism and white supremacism.

That's how we destroy what he stands for.

[Lord Revan]

as I said in the other thread I belive violence has no place in modern politics and I stand by it even when the target of said violence is someone whose policies I don't personally agree with or consider said person being elected a bad thing for both his native country and the world in general (while in this case I cannot affect the results in anyway not being a US citizen).

Wannabe dictators should be disgraced at the polls not killed, killing them only makes martyrs and corpses and that's not a good thing.

[Flagg]

That has got to be the lamest attempt at assassinating anyone. This guy needs a psych evaluation, STAT. I mean it goes without saying that I oppose killing people (or people-ish things like Trump) because they disagree with me on political issues, but this is a ridiculously overblown story. He didn't even bring his own gun, knife, or even a pointy stick. If it weren't for the shooting lessons I'd say it was an attempted suicide-by-cop.

All of that said, I'm glad he wasn't able to actually get the cops gun. Last thing we want is a Trump win-by-sympathy because some mental ward escapee gave him a flesh-wound, or God forbid actually killed him and have "Donald Trump: Martyr"

[His Divine Shadow]

Good thing that he couldn't get a gun legally since he couldn't pass a background check.

[The Romulan Republic]

For an example of how the martyr effect can shape politics, look at the shift in favour of staying in the EU after the recent murder of a pro-EU MP by a neo-Nazi in Britain.

Had this wanker succeeded, he might have actually ended up further Trump's worst ideas.

[Flagg]

Good thing that he couldn't get a gun legally since he couldn't pass a background check.

Und it begins...

[His Divine Shadow]

Oh Ok, it was a bad thing?

[Zixinus]

No, we just don't need to have the gun control discussion on more threads than it already is on. The moderators on the other threads have made this clear. It really has no bearing on the case because the guy didn't even have a gun.

Two crazy British assassins in one month.

Of course, even without succeeding, Trump supporters will chew on this guy like he's coated in caramel.

[Zaune]

All of that said, I'm glad he wasn't able to actually get the cops gun. Last thing we want is a Trump win-by-sympathy because some mental ward escapee gave him a flesh-wound, or God forbid actually killed him and have "Donald Trump: Martyr"

At least Trump the Martyr wouldn't have the keys to the nuclear weapons, though.

[The Romulan Republic]

All of that said, I'm glad he wasn't able to actually get the cops gun. Last thing we want is a Trump win-by-sympathy because some mental ward escapee gave him a flesh-wound, or God forbid actually killed him and have "Donald Trump: Martyr"

At least Trump the Martyr wouldn't have the keys to the nuclear weapons, though.

No, he'd just be inspiration for a whole new wave of violent fascists to try to get one of their number control of those keys.

[Purple]

About that. I am yet to see anything that would be fascist or in any way undemocratic about Trump. He might not be freedom loving and all that but he is not anti democratic in any way, shape or form.

[Channel72]

About that. I am yet to see anything that would be fascist or in any way undemocratic about Trump. He might not be freedom loving and all that but he is not anti democratic in any way, shape or form.

Fascism is kind of a fuzzy concept anyway. When people call Trump fascist - (and least, those who are not just knee-jerkingly using the term as synonymous with "loud, obnoxious guy I don't like") - what they really mean is that he exhibits various fascist traits or tendencies, such as: machismo, appeal to violence as a solution to problems, economic protectionism, nationalistic xenophobia, acting like a demagogic strong-man at rallies, and typically attracting right-wing minded people who fawn over masculine tough-guys and believe the state should solve many problems with blunt, forceful solutions, etc.

[Thanas]

About that. I am yet to see anything that would be fascist or in any way undemocratic about Trump. He might not be freedom loving and all that but he is not anti democratic in any way, shape or form.

Here is neocon and hawk extraordinaire Robert Kagan explaining why Trump reminds him of fascism.
link

[Purple]

I understand all that. But I also understand that fundamentally a fundamental requirement for someone to be a fascist is for that someone to oppose democracy on an ideological level. And so far Trump has not exhibited this.

[Borgholio]

I understand all that. But I also understand that fundamentally a fundamental requirement for someone to be a fascist is for that someone to oppose democracy on an ideological level. And so far Trump has not exhibited this.

Hitler was perfectly ok with participating in the Democratic processes in order to gain power.

[Purple]

I understand all that. But I also understand that fundamentally a fundamental requirement for someone to be a fascist is for that someone to oppose democracy on an ideological level. And so far Trump has not exhibited this.

Hitler was perfectly ok with participating in the Democratic processes in order to gain power.

But he was a nazi, that's different from a fascist. They are related but also different.

[Captain Seafort]

He also only turned to the democratic process after his coup failed.

[Patroklos]

And it's not like Hitler exactly participated in the democratic process in the manor that shows he respected it. He subverted it via actual violence and intimidation from the get go.

As far as actual sort of fascism observed in reality this election cycle, trump isn't the source. We have actual organized groups of thugs showing up at opposition meetings to disrupt political activity and physical assault and intimidate voters. We have actual assationation plots. We have actual votes in the Senate to strip constitutional rights from citizens extrajudicially via secret police black lists. Sorry guys, but the right isn't the ones with the fascist street cred in this election.

[Elheru Aran]

I understand all that. But I also understand that fundamentally a fundamental requirement for someone to be a fascist is for that someone to oppose democracy on an ideological level. And so far Trump has not exhibited this.

Hitler was perfectly ok with participating in the Democratic processes in order to gain power.

But he was a nazi, that's different from a fascist. They are related but also different.

...no.

The NSDAP espoused an ideology that was essentially fascist in that it followed authoritarian, extremist and populist, ultra-nationalist ideas. Honestly fascism is quite a mish-mash of concepts; they abhor liberalism (most notably in the form of Communism) but also abhor conservatism (the 'old order' must be replaced, etc). Study the NSDAP and you'll see that it's a pretty textbook example of fascistic principles in action.

If it's not fascist, what the hell was Nazism, then?

[Zaune]

Purple's bang on the money about one thing, though. I don't think Trump is ideologically opposed to democracy; that would require him to have a strong ideological commitment to much of anything besides money, power and his own self-image.

[Purple]

If it's not fascist, what the hell was Nazism, then?

Basically they are two similar ideologies that evolved paralel to one another and suffered from cross pollination. One is not a subgroup of the other.

A good way of looking at it, I find is to to see it as a different sect of the same religion. Like say catholic vs protestant. Yes there are obvious common threads but you will also see a lot of differences. Like for example fascism generally comes without the whole racial extermination angle.

[General Zod]

FYI.

The only official definition of Fascism comes from Benito Mussolini, the founder of fascism, in which he outlines three principles of a fascist philosophy.
1."Everything in the state". The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompasing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator.
2."Nothing outside the state". The country must grow and the implied goal of any fascist nation is to rule the world, and have every human submit to the government.
3."Nothing against the state". Any type of questioning the government is not to be tolerated. If you do not see things our way, you are wrong. If you do not agree with the government, you cannot be allowed to live and taint the minds of the rest of the good citizens.
The use of militarism was implied only as a means to accomplish one of the three above principles, mainly to keep the people and rest of the world in line. Fascist countries are known for their harmony and lack of internal strife. There are no conflicting parties or elections in fascist countries.

[Lord Revan]

Except pretty much all protestant sects are an evolution of catholic sect hence the whole "protestant" name as they were born as a protest to the corruption of the catholic church (at the time), I think a better analogue would catholic and orthodox sects which both split from orginal sect but are otherwise independent of each other.

EDIT: this was a reply to Purple.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

If it's not fascist, what the hell was Nazism, then?

Basically they are two similar ideologies that evolved paralel to one another and suffered from cross pollination. One is not a subgroup of the other.

A good way of looking at it, I find is to to see it as a different sect of the same religion. Like say catholic vs protestant. Yes there are obvious common threads but you will also see a lot of differences. Like for example fascism generally comes without the whole racial extermination angle.

Hitler and his cohorts adopted and adapted Mussolini's philosophy to suit their own needs, didn't they? The core principles of ultranationalism, imperialism, extreme corporatism, anti-unionism, and subjugation of the masses to the rule of a "trusted minority," if not to one man, remained the same, with the extermination of "lesser races," the inevitable conclusion of the Kulturkampf begun by Bismarck, being the sole difference between the two ideologies.

And, I'm not so sure of even that.