Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

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Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by Thanas » 2015-02-19 06:49am

...by Poland.
Poland will comply with a court order to pay $262,000 to two Guantánamo Bay inmates, foreign minister Grzegorz Schetyna said on Wednesday, as reparations for the country’s role in hosting a CIA black site where the men were tortured.

“We have to do it,” Schetyna said in an interview on Trójka Polish Radio, “because we are a country that abides laws.”
He said the money would be paid out within a month, though questions remain surrounding details of the settlements.

Schetyna said details would be worked out in the next few weeks.

In July, the European court of human rights delivered an unprecedented ruling that Poland had violated international law by allowing the CIA to inflict what “amounted to torture” in 2002 at a secret facility in the forests of north-east Poland. The court found that Poland “enabled the US authorities to subject [the detainees] to torture and ill‑treatment on its territory” and was complicit in that “inhuman and degrading treatment”.

Former CIA director Michael Hayden confirmed in 2008 that the two inmates, Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, were waterboarded, likely during their time in black sites around the world.
Bravo Poland for doing the right thing, unlike that home of the cowards brave.
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by White Haven » 2015-02-19 10:28am

You know what? Fuck you. Fuck you sideways.

You want to bitch about America? Fine. You want to open every post on every topic, anywhere, ever with a recitation of the Litany of American Crimes? It makes you a colossal dickhead, but we all knew that by now, so fine. You want to condemn the US political system? Fine, I'm right there with you. You want to lament the fact that real change in the US seems nigh-impossible to arrive at? Welcome to the choir, here's your fucking psalm-book. You do not, however, get to condemn everyone who happens to live in America just because they happen to live here, particularly not when you're busy getting horribly offended whenever someone plays the Nazi card in the Greece thread.

What the fuck happened to you? There was a time when you used to be a fairly ethical poster, maybe a bit of a dick, but who isn't. These days, though, it's like you feel that Stark's departure from the board left a void, and you're compelled to step into his role as King Threadshitter at every possibly opportunity.

And as to what you quoted, good on Poland.
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by Simon_Jester » 2015-02-19 10:37am

I also dislike being called a coward.
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by Thanas » 2015-02-19 10:39am

White Haven wrote:You want to bitch about America? Fine. You want to open every post on every topic, anywhere, ever with a recitation of the Litany of American Crimes?
If I wanted that, I would post a new topic every day about the great litany of American crimes. I don't do that. For example, you had no posts about me how the US government infiltrated hardware drives, about the Fat Leonard scandal, the drone strikes that happened in the last month etc. If I wanted to do that, I would have no shortage of ammunition. In fact, I could post about three times a day about how the US does X wrong in the world. I don't.

The fact that you get all upset about me making a dig at the self proclaimed "home of the brave" when
a) said nation of the brave still has not closed Guantanamo
b) said nation of the brave has not paid a single cent to people it abducted and tortured for years despite knowing they were innocent
c) said nation of the brave has blocked every court trial regarding this issue
c) said nation of the brave has to this day not even apologized to the innocent people it abducted
while Poland, which 25 years ago was a communist dictatorship, has done so....kinda says more about you.

The USA is a coward for not doing any of the above.
You do not, however, get to condemn everyone who happens to live in America just because they happen to live here, particularly not when you're busy getting horribly offended whenever someone plays the Nazi card in the Greece thread.
a) It should be well known by now (and I have clarified multiple times in the past) that attacking a country is not the same as attacking its citizens.
b) You would have a point with regards to the Nazi card if I were calling the USA genociders. I am not. I am calling the US cowards for refusing to apologize. My condemnation stems from the facts.
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by K. A. Pital » 2015-02-19 10:58am

Um... What is the problem?

Thanas has a right to add a comment to the news, and the fact that Poland, only an accomplice but certainly no prime culprit in the CIA manhunt, torture and detention program, sees it fit to apologize and pay reparations when the US is in a state of permanent denial, is by no means something not newsworthy.

I can understand the frustration because the US chose Obama to do something about it (close Gitmo, and maybe finally admit wrongdoing and even pay), but this has not happened.

It is not the fault of board members who are not Americans that your country behaves like a total dick. I get frustrated with Thanas sometimes too. But I do not actually get riled up because there's a thread about Russia's shenanigans in the Ukraine, with the breach of the Budapest treaty and shitting all over international law, and I suggest just accepting the criticism and actually doing something constructive.

I seem to feel that because the US now is no longer THE country, but rather just A country, a lot of people are surpised just how much criticism, how much dirty laundry one can gather about a typical corrupt government of a rich belligerent nation, and just how endlessly it can be criticized.

Know what? Suck it up. That is the world most people have been living in, their countries and themselves never immune to criticism.
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by White Haven » 2015-02-19 11:07am

You want to call my government cowards? Fine, but as Simon understood instantly and you two chucklefucks seem too dense to parse, there's a rather large difference between calling my leaders cowards or my country a coward and calling me, personally, a coward just for living in the same country as them. Home of the cowards? Governments consist of people, as you quite fucking well know, people whom a great number of Americans think are actually worse assholes than Thanas (which is a high bar) and yet are stuck with because of a broken political system. Accordingly, you can take your collective responsibility bullshit, cram it up your ass, and seal it in place with a swastika-studded buttplug.

Doesn't feel so good when someone generalizes about you, personally, because of where you live, does it?

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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by K. A. Pital » 2015-02-19 11:22am

Thanks, but I have had enough generalizations about myself simply because I was born in Russia.

I had my entire nation being called bloodthirsty savages in just a random comment.

Sorry, but no matter how much of a dick Thanas is, there's no way to interpret his mockery of your anthem as a deep personal insult to yourself.
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by mr friendly guy » 2015-02-19 11:49am

Even though I had disagreements with Thanas in the past, I have to point this out. If our Emperor criticises Christianity and then Christians complain that he is targeting them personally with his insults, this wouldn't fly. But apparently if we change a few terms its all ok now.
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by White Haven » 2015-02-19 12:01pm

You (Edit: referring to Stas Bush, since there's a reply in between) would have been perfectly justified in tearing a bloody strip on whoever turned an insult, however valid or invalid, at your birth country into a slur against all the inhabitants of that country. There is a difference. It's no more valid than saying that because someone is Japanese they wank to loli-porn or that everyone from Sicily is a mafioso. Detroit has a violent crime problem, so everyone from Detroit is a murderer or a rapist.
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by White Haven » 2015-02-19 12:04pm

mr friendly guy wrote:Even though I had disagreements with Thanas in the past, I have to point this out. If our Emperor criticises Christianity and then Christians complain that he is targeting them personally with his insults, this wouldn't fly. But apparently if we change a few terms its all ok now.
...What the fuck are you even talking about? I'm not trying to be combative, I just honestly can't parse what you're even trying to refer to.
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by mr friendly guy » 2015-02-19 12:28pm

White Haven wrote:
mr friendly guy wrote:Even though I had disagreements with Thanas in the past, I have to point this out. If our Emperor criticises Christianity and then Christians complain that he is targeting them personally with his insults, this wouldn't fly. But apparently if we change a few terms its all ok now.
...What the fuck are you even talking about? I'm not trying to be combative, I just honestly can't parse what you're even trying to refer to.
Sigh. Its a common line to take that <insert atheist here> is personally attacking <insert religious person here> because they criticise their religion, because you know, the religious belief is a strong part of what makes that religious person the way they are. IIRC Darth Wong's hate mail had something along those lines. This type of argument won't fly.

I feel you and SJ are interpreting Thanas's mockery of the US in the same manner, ie reading into something which isn't there.
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by Mr. Coffee » 2015-02-19 02:21pm

mr friendly guy wrote:Sigh. Its a common line to take that <insert atheist here> is personally attacking <insert religious person here> because they criticise their religion, because you know, the religious belief is a strong part of what makes that religious person the way they are. IIRC Darth Wong's hate mail had something along those lines. This type of argument won't fly.

I feel you and SJ are interpreting Thanas's mockery of the US in the same manner, ie reading into something which isn't there.
Easy goddamn way to clear up the misunderstanding then. Stop using generalizations. Goddamn, how fucking hard is it to get that if you want to criticize, say, the US government then say "US Government" instead of a term that can be taken as a generalization against all US citizens. If Thanas can't do that much then I am going to assume that, yes, he was talking about my country collectively and not talking specifically about the actions of my government.

And yes, Thanas, I'm well aware you've clarified your position many times. Don't fucking care, you still use sweeping asshole generalizations like a dick, despite being told many times and knowing full well your continued use of generalization pisses people off. So I can only assume you're doing it on purpose just so you can plead your innocence when called out for it, which makes you an even bigger Deutschebag than normal, bro. How about in the future you just refrain from making generalizations like a gibbering idiot so we don't have to have this conversation anymore.
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by Flagg » 2015-02-19 02:50pm

America is a country that is currently fighting wars with robots whose pilots are perfectly safe in an office somewhere. America launches cruise missiles and aforementioned drone strikes indiscriminately from hundreds of miles away killing innocent men and children with their "precision weapons" and shrugs it off as collateral damage. Then America uses the same weapons to bomb their funeral processions because they assume that their "terrorist" friends will be there causing more bloody unnecessary carnage with children and old women's limbs and guts are strewn about a square block collateral damage.

The few times America actually sends men to do their fighting for them, their hubris is so great that within 8 years they run from the countries they cannot sustain occupation for political or other made up reasons, leaving the country an utter disaster area ripe for internal strife caused by inside and outside forces.
But oh how great America is in its ability to fly into another countries airspace to essentially carry out a mob hit on a pathetic old man with delusions of power and grandeur he has not possessed in half a dozen years. Then Americans celebrate the death of their terrifying enemy, The Mandarin OBL.

America, and by and large the vast mass of ignorance and stupidity that comprises her, and has since the beginning, is a cancer upon the world. Not the worst kind, but the kind that metastisizes every decade or so until it's beaten back by its own stupidity and yes, cowardice.

Just ask the American Natives. If you can find any.
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by Mr. Coffee » 2015-02-19 03:02pm

Flagg, why do you have to be such an utter cunt?
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by Flagg » 2015-02-19 03:04pm

Stas Bush wrote:Umm... What is the problem?
Whiny, butthurt Americans who are for freedom of speech. As long as you don't dare say anything negative about their overwhelmingly evil country. Or "generalize" which is only ever a problem if you're talking about something they give a fuck about. These same idiots currently mewling and whining about mean old Thanas would have laughed if the thread had featured a joke involving Submarines with screen doors piloted by the Polish, but say that Poland is more honest and brave than America is? Thems whining words!
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by Mr. Coffee » 2015-02-19 03:17pm

Flagg wrote:Whiny, butthurt Americans who are for freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech is all well and good. You can say what you want, just understand that when you say something that makes you look like a douchebag people will start calling you a douchebag.
Flagg wrote: As long as you don't dare say anything negative about their overwhelmingly evil country.
Did you even read the fucking thread, you moron? Fuck, White Haven made it clear you can go ahead and talk shit about the actions of our government all you want and he'd be right there with you saying "Amen". No one has a problem with criticizing the actions of the US government.

Flagg wrote:Or "generalize" which is only ever a problem if you're talking about something they give a fuck about.
No one here said any such thing, you dishonest attention whore. We have a problem with sweeping generalizations that say "All Americans must be like this because of shit their government did". Which is every bit as dumb and fucking retarded as saying "All Germans are Nazis because several decades ago the Nazis were their government". If you stopped to read the thread before you started another of your "lookit me, guys!" tirades you'd have noticed that.

Flagg wrote:These same idiots currently mewling and whining about mean old Thanas would have laughed if the thread had featured a joke involving Submarines with screen doors piloted by the Polish, but say that Poland is more honest and brave than America is?
Bullshit. The actions of Poland's government is commendable, but that doesn't mean all Poles are commendable, you fucking idiot. Just like the actions of the US Government are often detestable, but that does not mean all Americans are the same as their government. Jesus, do I need to draw a comic about this so you can actually understand it, you half-wit?

Flagg wrote:Thems whining words!
Yes, your entire post is one long asshole whine I'd expect from an attention starved 13 year old, not from a grown ass man.

Now, if you're done being a shithead, how about we just all agree generalizations are almost always a dumb fucking idea?
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by Aleva13 » 2015-02-19 03:52pm

It's unrealistic to expect people to stop using generalizations.

besides, assigning attributes to a country can only realistically refer to its leaders.
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by Flagg » 2015-02-19 03:54pm

Mr. Coffee wrote:
Flagg wrote:Whiny, butthurt Americans who are for freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech is all well and good. You can say what you want, just understand that when you say something that makes you look like a douchebag people will start calling you a douchebag.
Flagg wrote: As long as you don't dare say anything negative about their overwhelmingly evil country.
Did you even read the fucking thread, you moron? Fuck, White Haven made it clear you can go ahead and talk shit about the actions of our government all you want and he'd be right there with you saying "Amen". No one has a problem with criticizing the actions of the US government.

Flagg wrote:Or "generalize" which is only ever a problem if you're talking about something they give a fuck about.
No one here said any such thing, you dishonest attention whore. We have a problem with sweeping generalizations that say "All Americans must be like this because of shit their government did". Which is every bit as dumb and fucking retarded as saying "All Germans are Nazis because several decades ago the Nazis were their government". If you stopped to read the thread before you started another of your "lookit me, guys!" tirades you'd have noticed that.

Flagg wrote:These same idiots currently mewling and whining about mean old Thanas would have laughed if the thread had featured a joke involving Submarines with screen doors piloted by the Polish, but say that Poland is more honest and brave than America is?
Bullshit. The actions of Poland's government is commendable, but that doesn't mean all Poles are commendable, you fucking idiot. Just like the actions of the US Government are often detestable, but that does not mean all Americans are the same as their government. Jesus, do I need to draw a comic about this so you can actually understand it, you half-wit?

Flagg wrote:Thems whining words!
Yes, your entire post is one long asshole whine I'd expect from an attention starved 13 year old, not from a grown ass man.

Now, if you're done being a shithead, how about we just all agree generalizations are almost always a dumb fucking idea?
I did read the thread. I have plenty of time because I'm not constantly pickling my liver and then posting incomprehensible offensive nonsense. And what happened is what always happens when someone points out that America pretty much equals cowardice. People get butthurt and whine about "generalizations". I don't see Thanas whining like a little kid with a scraped knee about "generalizations" when people bring up Nazi Germany. It's likely because most other civilized countries don't brainwash the dumb (that would be the whining whiners in this thread) into knee jerk "defending" a country accused of being full of stupid belligerent assholes by being a stupid belligerent asshole.
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by Simon_Jester » 2015-02-19 03:54pm

Stas Bush wrote:Thanks, but I have had enough generalizations about myself simply because I was born in Russia.

I had my entire nation being called bloodthirsty savages in just a random comment.
On a forum which at least tries to preserve intellectual integrity... you would have a right to complain about being called a bloodthirsty savage.

It's one thing in Youtube comments where any moron can say any damn thing they want. It's another matter in if you're being held to standards.

Are people held to standards on this forum? Is a pointless -1 comment at the end of an article, a comment that is neither true in itself nor substantiated by anything, justified?

If I posted an article in N&P about Poland ramping up their defense spending or something, and then said at the bottom "I guess the Poles have to spend all that money because Germans are cowards," in those exact words, it would be right and proper to criticize me for saying something that is both offensive and wrong.

Likewise if I said "I guess the Poles have to spend all that money because Russians are bloodthirsty savages." That is insulting and prejudicial to a large group of people, and objectively wrong as a statement of fact.

I mean, how far is it between being able to just randomly insult the members of a given country whenever you want and get away with it, and being able to use racial insults against nationalities you don't like?
mr friendly guy wrote:Even though I had disagreements with Thanas in the past, I have to point this out. If our Emperor criticises Christianity and then Christians complain that he is targeting them personally with his insults, this wouldn't fly. But apparently if we change a few terms its all ok now.
There's a difference between saying "Christianity is a stupid religion" and "Christians are stupid." There's a difference between saying "Russia is an aggressive country" and saying "Russians are bloodthirsty savages."

Statements of the first kind are okay if you're tolerating insults, which we do here. Fine and good. I signed up for that.

Statements of the second kind are only okay if you are also prepared to tolerate racial stereotyping. And I thought we weren't willing to do that here. I didn't sign up for that.
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by Mr. Coffee » 2015-02-19 04:07pm

Flagg wrote:I did read the thread. I have plenty of time because I'm not constantly pickling my liver and then posting incomprehensible offensive nonsense.
No, you just moved your PC to the toilet so you could post inflammatory nonsense that has not a goddamn thing to do with anything anyone said in this thread will shitting blood, douche.

Flagg wrote:And what happened is what always happens when someone points out that America pretty much equals cowardice. People get butthurt and whine about "generalizations".
Yes, because maybe some of us don't like being lumped in as cowards because of the actions of our government. Just like Thanas gets upset when people bring up "Germans are Nazis" or with Stas when someone says "Russians are blood thirty lying savages".

Flagg wrote:I don't see Thanas whining like a little kid with a scraped knee about "generalizations" when people bring up Nazi Germany.
Bullshit. I've done exactly that twice now and both times Thanas got pretty damn hot about it. Guess what I did, I stopped making sweeping generalizations about Germans because Thanas was right that such generalizations are wrong, yet her he is doing the exact same fucking thing. So while I no longer toss "Nazi" at him, I can now feel absolutely guilt free about labeling him as a massive fucking hypocrite.

Flagg wrote:It's likely because most other civilized countries don't brainwash the dumb (that would be the whining whiners in this thread) into knee jerk "defending" a country accused of being full of stupid belligerent assholes by being a stupid belligerent asshole.
As opposed to you just being a belligerent asshole because your an unsocialized jackass. Yeah, gotcha, way to hop on the bandwagon instead of reading what anyone in this thread has actually posted, you strawmanning, bloody assed, socially retarded, attention whoring troll.

Stop fucking posting. Everything you say is as full of blood and shit as what comes out of your ass.
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by Gandalf » 2015-02-19 05:26pm

Coffee, before you run down another proverbial Nazi laneway, note the difference between statements about present day Germany based on actions seven decades ago, and statements about the present day USA based on present day actions.
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That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by Iroscato » 2015-02-19 05:34pm

This is the biggest, most pathetic shit-flinging contest I've seen this week. Good fucking god.
Yeah, I've always taken the subtext of the Birther movement to be, "The rules don't count here! This is different! HE'S BLACK! BLACK, I SAY! ARE YOU ALL BLIND!?

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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by Mr. Coffee » 2015-02-19 05:38pm

Gandalf wrote:Coffee, before you run down another proverbial Nazi laneway, note the difference between statements about present day Germany based on actions seven decades ago, and statements about the present day USA based on present day actions.
Note that they are both still generalizations, Gandalf. Or are you saying that sweeping generalizations are perfectly valid? If that's the case let's go whole goddamn hog about it. Either it's perfectly acceptable to generalize against everyone or it's unacceptable against everyone. You don't get to pick and choose. If "Americans are cowards" is valid then so to must "Russians are violent liars", "Germans are Nazis", "Asians are good at math", and "Australians are all Convicts". Guess what, generalizations and stereotypes are the same thing, who fucking knew.
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Goddammit, now I'm forced to say in public that I agree with Mr. Coffee. - Mike Wong
I never would have thought I would wholeheartedly agree with Coffee... - fgalkin x2
Honestly, this board is so fucking stupid at times. - Thanas
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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by Jub » 2015-02-19 05:55pm

Here's a question, how many of the Americans in this thread that take offense to being lumped in with your nations manifold crimes against humanity have so much as written a letter to your local/state representative about the current state of affairs? How about if I make it easier how many of you have donated to somebody who has? Still nothing... Umm, signed an online petition you saw on facebook?

For all the shit you guys are flinging how many of you have actually done anything besides sit on your hands because it takes work to effect change?

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Re: Reparations paid to Guantanamo detainees...

Post by Ralin » 2015-02-19 05:59pm

Jub wrote:Here's a question, how many of the Americans in this thread that take offense to being lumped in with your nations manifold crimes against humanity have so much as written a letter to your local/state representative about the current state of affairs? How about if I make it easier how many of you have donated to somebody who has? Still nothing... Umm, signed an online petition you saw on facebook?

For all the shit you guys are flinging how many of you have actually done anything besides sit on your hands because it takes work to effect change?
Does making plans to emigrate as soon as possible count?

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