Terror attack on Charlie Hebdo magazine in Paris

[cosmicalstorm]

Looks like there is a massive terrorattack in Paris as we speak. Shouts of Allah Akbar are reported.

[Siege]

Gunmen have attacked the Paris office of French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, killing 11 people and injuring 10, French officials say.

Witnesses spoke of sustained gunfire at the office as the attackers opened fire with assault rifles before escaping.

President Francois Hollande said there was no doubt it had been a terrorist attack "of exceptional barbarity".

A major police operation has been launched in the Paris area to catch the attackers.

More at the link. So far no reputable news source that I've seen has reported this as a 'Muslim' attack. The title of this thread therefore strikes me as premature.

[Enigma]

It is now 12 dead.

Muslim angle is from the fact that CH was the one that published that Muhammed cartoon which pissed off a lot of Muslims back in 2012 I believe.

[Siege]

I understand where the suspicions come from, I even see some of the reports of shouts of "Allahu Akbar" (for example by The Independent). I just feel it's far too early for such a definitive thread title.

[Lagmonster]

Reports on CBC news are that attackers shouted "We have avenged the prophet". Between that and the claim that multiple similar attacks against the magazine have been stopped in the past (and one firebombing that did some damage), seems clear people are treating this as an extremist terror attack. Still, I've edited it for pure accuracy, especially as the death count has risen.

[Broomstick]

Le Monde is reporting that cries of "Allah Akbar" and "we have avenged the prophet" were heard at the scene by witnesses. Al Jazeera is reporting that a French TV news station showed a video of the gunmen yelling "we have avenged the prophet, we've killed Charlie Hebdo" (the name of the paper is Charlie Hedbo) although Al Jazeera also states they have not independently confirmed the veracity of the video.

Looks like there is some evidence the attackers were Muslim.

While 12 dead (so far) is a tragedy and a mass shooting, I'm not sure that's a "massive terror attack". Is there even a strict definition of that? I dunno, maybe we need something like the Richter scale for earthquakes or the Fujita scale for tornadoes. "Authorities are saying the terror attack was a 3.2 on the Asshat Scale, which translates to 4.85 on the Monkeyfucker Scale." And it's sad I'm even thinking along those lines.

[Zaune]

While 12 dead (so far) is a tragedy and a mass shooting, I'm not sure that's a "massive terror attack".

It is if you haven't had any real terrorist attacks in several decades. When was the last time something like this happened in France, the Seventies?

[Mange]

While 12 dead (so far) is a tragedy and a mass shooting, I'm not sure that's a "massive terror attack".

It is if you haven't had any real terrorist attacks in several decades. When was the last time something like this happened in France, the Seventies?

It's also a matter against what the attack was directed. It's an attack on the democratic society.

[cosmicalstorm]

I think the title should be edited back to Muslim attack on Charlie Hebdo magazine in Paris.

At this point it is utterly unlikely that the attack was carried out by anyone else than radical Muslims. If we find out that it was actually four neonazis who masqueraded as Muslims shouting Allah Akbar to propagate negative stereotypes about Muslims I will make a public apology here.

[wautd]

Sadly the only winner of this barbarism will be Front National at the next elections

[Zilkar]

In that the shooters escaped, wait for the real problems to start when French law enforcement starts going into the banlieues looking for them.

[Thanas]

I think the title should be edited back to Muslim attack on Charlie Hebdo magazine in Paris.

Why is that so important? The current title is just fine.

[Edi]

I think the title should be edited back to Muslim attack on Charlie Hebdo magazine in Paris.

Why is that so important? The current title is just fine.

To echo this, I would really like to hear the reasoning as well.

Because to me it seems nothing more than a manifestation of just how well the right wing scaremongering about any and all Muslims has been internalized. To a degree that it can almost be classified as a pathological infection of the national psyche of the US. One of the manifestations is that it can only be assuaged by loudly and publicly bringing up how Muslims are the bad guys if there is even a hint of their involvement in a crime, regardless of the actual perpetrator. It seems as if it takes nothing more than any act of violence by Muslims anywhere in the world against any non-Muslims and America immediately pisses its collective pants, because that is what it has been trained to do by its government and its media for the past 13 years and counting.

It's pathetic, really.

[salm]

It's pathetic, really.

Sadly, this isn´t restricted to the USA. A similar mindset exists in Europe.

[Dominus Atheos]

Racist much Edi? Comicalstorm is European. (IIRC swedish).

[Block]

It's pathetic, really.

Sadly, this isn´t restricted to the USA. A similar mindset exists in Europe.

Isn't it common in France itself? Isn't that part of why the Algerian French get treated as second class citizens for the most part, which results in a lot of radicalism?

[Edi]

Racist much Edi? Comicalstorm is European. (IIRC swedish).

Hmm, if so, my apologies then. It doesn't say on his profile. Though there is a contingent of that same sort in Sweden that is disturbingly sizable.

[Broomstick]

Perhaps, if the title HAS to mention religion at all, the correct expression would be "Muslim extremists attack Charlie Hebdo" because that's what I think is really meant here. The problem is that people get lazy, both in speaking and in thinking. "Extremist Muslims" degrades to just "Muslims", and that's not good.

I'm fine with the current title. Perhaps those of us commenting in threads like these should take care to distinguish terrorists who happen to be Muslims from ordinary peaceful people who happen to be Muslim.

Obviously, for a terrorist whose actions are driven by an extreme/hateful variety of Islam that is a significant fact, but most Muslims aren't interested in blowing themselves up, oppressing others, or otherwise engaging in deplorable and uncivilized acts.

[Zilkar]

Perhaps, if the title HAS to mention religion at all, the correct expression would be "Muslim extremists attack Charlie Hebdo" because that's what I think is really meant here. The problem is that people get lazy, both in speaking and in thinking. "Extremist Muslims" degrades to just "Muslims", and that's not good.

I'm fine with the current title. Perhaps those of us commenting in threads like these should take care to distinguish terrorists who happen to be Muslims from ordinary peaceful people who happen to be Muslim.

I think the title should be edited back to Muslim attack on Charlie Hebdo magazine in Paris.

Why is that so important? The current title is just fine.

I second the recommedations that the title remains "Terror Attack on Charlie Hebdo..".

From my perspective, the most critical element of this is that it was an attack designed to silence expression rather than an attack by a particular group (yet to be positively identified).

While one can make assumptions of motivations and responsible groups based on the news stories, they may or may not be true. The attack, however, incontrovertibly happened.

[Aasharu]

Whenever I encounter people conflating Muslim extremists with normal Muslims, I bring up the Westboro Baptists and ask if they are a reasonable representation of all Christians. I feel it's similar situation.

[Lagmonster]

The title will not be changing except in the event that significant new facts come to light that warrant a change.

[Borgholio]

Whenever I encounter people conflating Muslim extremists with normal Muslims, I bring up the Westboro Baptists and ask if they are a reasonable representation of all Christians. I feel it's similar situation.

I use the same comparison, and it pisses off Christians I speak with to be associated with those assholes. Then I mention that's how Muslims feel about their own extremists.

[Ralin]

Whenever I encounter people conflating Muslim extremists with normal Muslims, I bring up the Westboro Baptists and ask if they are a reasonable representation of all Christians. I feel it's similar situation.

I use the same comparison, and it pisses off Christians I speak with to be associated with those assholes. Then I mention that's how Muslims feel about their own extremists.

And if they say that they represent beliefs that a lot of Christians buy into watered down versions of and who are enabled by the moderates? Because if so yes, I think the situations are very similar.

[Borgholio]

Not sure what you mean exactly. Westboro hates gays with a passion, while many devoted Christians think it's a sin but don't go out of their way to make life hell for gays and their supporters. So I don't think that's any different than Muslims who think it's offensive when the French make fun of Mohammed but don't go the extra step and murder people over it.

[Joun_Lord]

Attacks like this always have wide consequences. To speak of Patriotland first, being an Americentric American, of course this will be used as fodder for right wing attacks on normal Muslims who are killed in far higher numbers by extremists then we pale faces. The gunners might get ahold of it, pros say this is the reason everyone and their dog should be armed so a good guy (or gal or mutt) with a gun can stop this while the antis might say this is the reason to ban guns even harder to prevent attacks like this and rely on the police for protection (unless you're black, then you're shit out of luck). Idiots will use this to say that the NSA reading every fucking thing and the TSA grabbing your grandpas balls is warranted to prevent attacks like this, the French version of the TSA clearly didn't grab enough balls to stop terrorism.

In Eurocommie land this will probably give more ammo (no pun intended) to right winger wannabe Nazi's including the wannabes in Krautland I think yesterday protesting the Islamization of Europe. Well they are going to look right in alot of peoples eyes when they can point to people getting murder death killed for speaking ill of Islam by dudes shouting Allah Ackbar. This didn't happen in downtown Kabul or the barbaric and violent Old West wasteland of America, but in Paris. This so soon after an attack in Kangerooland down under by a lone nutter who was clearly part of a larger operation, clearly, makes things even more in their favor to lay accusations at the feet of the Muslim community that will resonate with a wider audience.

Hopefully the French can just catch these cunts without making a martyr of them and without the cunts doing anymore attacks.