Buffalo may see 9 feet of snow

[dragon]

I am so glad I didn't take the job in Buffalo last year

Are you there? Share images, if you can safely

(CNN) -- Enough already.

Shivering under up to 6 feet of snow in its hardest-hit sections, Buffalo, New York, may see another 3 feet Thursday.

If the forecast holds, that's more than a year's worth of snow in just three days.

In a typical year, Buffalo's snowfall totals about 7 feet, according to the National Weather Service.
What is lake effect snow?
Nearly a year's worth of snow in 24 hours
Buffalo mayor: 'There's a long way to go'
Photos: Wintry weather across U.S. Photos: Wintry weather across U.S.

Get the drift?

Piled high and deep, the snow is a nightmare for south Buffalo residents Donna and Sean Yager. It took them four to five hours to free their car from its snowy confines.

Neighbor Rick Gayhart has lived in Buffalo all his life and said he's never seen a snow like this before.

In the Buffalo suburb of Cheektowaga, Chrissy Hazard found herself trapped in her own home, surrounded by 5 1/2 feet of snow.

She has plenty of company. Hazard's there with her husband, a friend, seven children and some dogs.

It's close quarters when there's nowhere to go.

Everything's all right for now, she told CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360."

"We're good," she said. "We're buried in the house but we're doing OK."

Deadly storm

Eight deaths in the region -- including one man whose car was buried under more than a foot of snow -- are blamed on the extreme storm, authorities said.
CNN reporter pummeled by snow storm
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Freezing temperatures hit every state
Why is it so cold?

Erie County officials said one of the deaths was from a car accident and four other people died due to cardiac issues that resulted from shoveling snow.

The most recently reported death involved a man in his 60s who had a "cardiac event" after trying to move a snow plow or a snow blower, Erie County deputy executive Richard Tobe said Thursday.

In Alden, New York, a 46-year-old man was found dead inside a car buried in 12 to 15 feet of snow, authorities said.

In Genesee County, Jack Boyce, a 56-year-old county employee, died after collapsing Tuesday morning while operating a snow blower outside the county sheriff's office, according to county manager Jay Gsell.

Good neighbors

Buffalo Mayor Byron Brown and city officials Wednesday recounted stories of rescuers trudging around snow drifts as high as houses to get people to hospitals, of fire stations turned into temporary shelters and police officers delivering special baby formula to a pair of infants.

"It is clear that we are one Buffalo," Brown said.

Buffalo prides itself as "The City of Good Neighbors."

"Buffalo itself, known as a city of neighbors, has come together and shown a real sense of community and neighbor helping neighbor, which is always good to see," New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo told reporters.

A sporting chance

Wednesday night's football game between the University of Buffalo and Kent State was postponed because the visitor's equipment truck didn't make it in time. The game could be played Thursday or on another date, school officials said.

The NFL is keeping a close eye on the weather too. The Buffalo Bills are scheduled to play the New York Jets on Sunday.

The storms will be long gone by then, but Ralph Wilson Stadium is a mess, buried in an estimated 220,000 tons of snow.

"We have not had this much snow as far as we know in the history of our team," said Andy Major, a Bills vice president. "It might take three days or so to remove one foot of snow before a game and now we've got four feet of snow on a 200 acre site where there's potential for more coming. So right there it gives you the magnitude."

To help with the task, the team is offering $10 an hour to clear snow. Game tickets are also part of the deal.

Snow removal crews will get some help from the forecast.

Temperatures are expected to break through freezing on Saturday and reach the 50s on Sunday, the National Weather Service said. But rain is also likely.

"That would be a terrible thing," CNN Severe Weather Expert Chad Myers said. "If it rains -- and it probably will at least on the weekend -- all of that snow is not going to melt right away. That snow is going to hold that rain in and then that snow on top is going to get heavier and heavier."

And that could stress buildings already buried under feet of snow.

Clearing the streets

Still, traveling remains difficult in many parts of Buffalo.
Snow blows doors off their hinges
3 die while shoveling snow in epic storm

Brown predicted a "long way to go" before efforts to clear the city's roadways are finished. Already, more than 6,500 tons of snow have been removed from city streets and highways.

"It is going to be a slow go," the mayor said. "Historic amounts of snow have fallen. There is no place to put that snow."

Instead of plowing the snow, front-end loaders are scooping it up and piling it into the back of dump trucks to be hauled away.

Contractors and city crews are working 24/7 to clear the 10 square miles that have been pummeled by lake-effect snow, caused by Arctic air pouring over the relatively warm waters of the Great Lakes.

Trapped at the fire station

The snow left people stranded in cars and turned roadways into parking lots. But it also forced residents to seek shelter in unusual places.

About 70 people took refuge at a Buffalo fire station and 20 others holed up in a police station Tuesday night, authorities said. By morning, most had returned home.

And as they waited, those at the fire station got a teeny weeny gift.

A baby girl was delivered there when an ambulance was unable to take her mother to the hospital, Buffalo Fire Commissioner Garnell Whitfield said.

"She was born, she's safe and she's healthy," Whitfield said.

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[Irbis]

Snow in late November, eh? Who would have thought. Cue "Global warming is a hoax" drones coming out of hiding in 3... 2... 1...

[Zaune]

I was actually going to suggest that if it got really bad, the good burghers of Buffalo should probably eat the climate change skeptics first.

[Raw Shark]

Snow in late November, eh? Who would have thought. Cue "Global warming is a hoax" drones coming out of hiding in 3... 2... 1...

Snow this time of year is nothing unusual for upstate New York, but 9' in 3-4 days is more than a little extreme for the region. If anything, this is evidence in favor of global climate change rather than against it.

[Zixinus]

Snow in late November, eh? Who would have thought. Cue "Global warming is a hoax" drones coming out of hiding in 3... 2... 1...

Snow this time of year is nothing unusual for upstate New York, but 9' in 3-4 days is more than a little extreme for the region. If anything, this is evidence in favor of global climate change rather than against it.

How does that work exactly? I'm not a GW-sceptic, I just don't know more than "global warming puts more energy into the system". OK, but how does that produce more cold? Shouldn't more energy bring more heat?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

How does that work exactly? I'm not a GW-sceptic, I just don't know more than "global warming puts more energy into the system". OK, but how does that produce more cold? Shouldn't more energy bring more heat?

A more energetic system will have more energetic extremes and less likely to come to a more moderate equilibrium.

It is like an extremely excited oscillator that oscillates with very strong extreme magnitude, while having a larger time-averaged magnitude, in electrical engineering speak.

[Elheru Aran]

How does that work exactly? I'm not a GW-sceptic, I just don't know more than "global warming puts more energy into the system". OK, but how does that produce more cold? Shouldn't more energy bring more heat?

A more energetic system will have more energetic extremes and less likely to come to a more moderate equilibrium.

It is like an extremely excited oscillator that oscillates with very strong extreme magnitude, while having a larger time-averaged magnitude, in electrical engineering speak.

Yes, it's going to go back and forth. If you have an extreme winter, the odds are decent you will in turn have an extreme summer, or vice versa. That's why 'climate change' is a far more appropriate term to use these days than 'global warming'-- rather than the idiocy that conflates the two and insists that cold winters disprove global warming, it's an overall change in the climate which leads to these extremes.

[Borgholio]

Snow this time of year is nothing unusual for upstate New York, but 9' in 3-4 days is more than a little extreme for the region.

9' is the ANNUAL average for the region...and they got it in half a week. Hopefully they have a very mild winter from this point on or they're screwed.

[SCRawl]

I'm not sure how a typical winter would "screw" Buffalo from this point forward.

Here's what seems to have happened: a few days of unusually cold, windy weather from the North happening very early in the season. The lake is still relatively warm, so that cold wind picked up a ton of moisture and dumped it on Buffalo. In a few days they're supposed to have temperatures of about 15 C -- that's high 50s for you non-Metric-using people -- so I'm thinking that a great deal of that snow will just melt away and rejoin the lake.

So: long story short, this isn't the kind of "extreme" weather I would associate with climate change. More like a perfect storm. (Disclaimer: I am not a meteorologist, nor am I a climate scientist.)

[Broomstick]

It doesn't help that they're also downwind of Niagara Falls - that waterfall puts a shitload of moisture into the air, along with what Lake Erie and Lake Ontario contribute to the region.

Keep in mind that they're showing the worst part of the affected area - my family that lives north of the city proper got less than a foot/30cm of snow. That will enable authorities to get to people, get supplies in, etc. It's still a disaster, but the geographic extent is limited (thank goodness)

There have been a couple building collapses, roofs falling in, that sort of thing.

This is also why I don't go visit my father and sister for Thanksgiving. Granted, this is historically extreme but serious snowfalls along with closed roads and stranded vehicles have happened before. I would have to traverse the snowbelt in order to get there.

(I also have to work Black Friday this year, which is another reason not to travel there.)

[Irbis]

Snow this time of year is nothing unusual for upstate New York, but 9' in 3-4 days is more than a little extreme for the region. If anything, this is evidence in favor of global climate change rather than against it.

Yes, it's not. Precisely. What I meant was denialist idiots still clinging to old name, grasping at any snow fall they can, and being too stupid to understand why it's now called 'climate change'.

How does that work exactly? I'm not a GW-sceptic, I just don't know more than "global warming puts more energy into the system". OK, but how does that produce more cold? Shouldn't more energy bring more heat?

No no no. It still brings more heat. The catch is where the heat goes. Namely, it disrupts air currents. Now, one way it can do that is creating atmospheric depression in northern region while also making high pressure zone south of it, blocking air currents. The result? Very cold air from polar region flows into depression bringing intense blast of cold* dropping air temperature by a lot. It will last only a few days, as any snow so created with quickly melt, but it's enough to create anomaly.

*intense by standards of current decade, mild by reckoning of past century.

We actually had detailed report of Polish biologists about that last week. I didn't link it due to language barrier, but short version is, this makes situation far worse than just global warming. You have bears not hibernating, birds not migrating south, bees trying to gather nectar in October. All because winter cues don't kick in.

Even trees, that rely not on temperature but on sunlight to recognize winter, drop leaves later denying food/shelter to rest of ecosystem. They also have very little time to concentrate unwanted matter in leaves for removal, potentially leading to health problems.

Some of these species fare better, some worse, as they can still find some food, but roughly almost none of them can cope with a week of intense, surprising cold if caught in the open. Which means, either humans will create public service saving/feeding exposed species, or a few such winters and we can kiss most or all specimens of such species goodbye. Emissions are costless, eh, fellow capitalists?

[Irbis]

9' is the ANNUAL average for the region...and they got it in half a week. Hopefully they have a very mild winter from this point on or they're screwed.

Mild winter means more snow, not less. Snow doesn't appear magically from air, first you need a lot of moisture in it, requiring very warm summer and autumn. If you really have cold winter, evaporation stops and after a few snowfalls you don't see them any more until spring.

So, yeah, as one meteorologist expert commented on it, such heavy snowfall at this time of year is best confirmation temperature is getting abnormally high, not that the global warming stopped, like right wing idiots claim.

[General Brock]

The denialists also tend to say, its likely natural and not proven man-made. Yet, follow the money and its not always science and free markets they're really interesting in protecting.

[Simon_Jester]

In a few days they're supposed to have temperatures of about 15 C -- that's high 50s for you non-Metric-using people -- so I'm thinking that a great deal of that snow will just melt away and rejoin the lake.

If it lasts, sure- but if those 50-degree days come with rain, the sheer volume of snow will soak up and refreeze the rain, creating denser, heavier snow. And if they're subsequently followed by 40-degree days (more typical as we move into December, I'd think) followed by freezing-cold nights... then this stuff will take forever to go away on its own. Probably literally; if you get far enough north the snow never goes away in wintertime, even if there are periodic days of above freezing temperatures.

One day of 55 degree weather with rainfall will clear off a couple of inches of snow quite effectively. Nine feet is a whole different order of problem.

[Broomstick]

Basically, the most likely result is a LOT of water causing localized flooding due to blocked street drains (that 9 feet of snow - good luck finding the grates and digging them out!), but not melting all the snow, or even half of it, so what's left refreezes into ice, walls and drifts of ice.

[Zaune]

Basically, the most likely result is a LOT of water causing localized flooding due to blocked street drains (that 9 feet of snow - good luck finding the grates and digging them out!), but not melting all the snow, or even half of it, so what's left refreezes into ice, walls and drifts of ice.

There's a trope for this scenario.

[Broomstick]

Oh, yeah.

The only bright spot is that there had been some time to prepare. The authorities have told people in flood prone areas to have their bags packed and be ready to evacuate. Temporary shelters are being set up, and food and water for the evacuated are being staged. Rescue teams and equipment are prepped for flood rescues.

It could be bad, but however bad it is, it could have been worse with no foresight.

[houser2112]

When I moved to the Buffalo area two years ago, I specifically avoided looking at houses in the Southtowns for this very reason. The Buffalo area in general gets more than enough snow, there's no sense adding even more.

Ironically, I got on a plane to Florida the day the storm hit. Even north of the city where we just got a dusting, the schools and highways were closed that day. I only hope there won't be any issues getting back into town on Saturday.