What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

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Dominus Atheos
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What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

Post by Dominus Atheos »

A Tumblr quote floated over to me about around the time of Trayvon Martin's murder, from a Jonathan Lethem book that I've never read (The Fortress of Solitude). At this point, I don't really need to read it, because it's already asked me the most important question I've heard in a long time: "At what age is a black boy when he learns he's scary?"

This question retains its relevance now more than ever. Some have called Michael Brown's killing and the newly newsworthy manifestation of systemic racism and state-sanctioned brutality against black men a reproductive issue, arguing that it prevents women and men from their right "to parent the children we have in safe and healthy environments:" It makes people afraid to have black babies, because they won't stand a chance. As a black woman, nothing will stop me from bearing and raising my future child, but nothing will stop me from raising them in fear.

Such is the burden of black parenting. Being a black parent, especially of a black boy, comes with the added onus of having to protect your child from a country that is out to get him—a country that kills someone that looks like him every 28 hours, a country that will likely imprison him by his mid-thirties if he doesn't get his high school diploma, a country that is more than twice as likely to suspend him from school than a white classmate.

This fear has fueled a generational need for a portentous, culturally compulsory lecture that warns young black men about the inherent strikes against them, about the society that is built to bring them down. It is a harbinger of the inevitable, a wishful attempt at exceptionalism, passed down like an heirloom.

Every black male I've ever met has had this talk, and it's likely that I'll have to give it one day too. There are so many things I need to tell my future son, already, before I've birthed him; so many innocuous, trite thoughts that may not make a single difference. Don't wear a hoodie. Don't try to break up a fight. Don't talk back to cops. Don't ask for help. But they're all variations of a single theme: Don't give them an excuse to kill you.

I needed advice on how to do this, so I reached out to a small group of people. For black parents, I asked: What rules, warnings, survival tactics are you giving your children as you raise them? For black youth: What have you been taught? What did you learn on your own? And for everyone: What would you have told Michael Brown before he left the house that afternoon?

Angela Jackson-Browne, 46, Indianapolis, In.
I have raised a white stepson, who is 26, and my own black son, who is 24. My conversations with them concerning the police are different depending on the circumstances they are entering into.

When they are together, I have taught my white stepson that he will be treated for all practical purposes the same as his black stepbrother. He gets that his white privilege is null and void when he is hanging with the "brothers." I have also taught my white stepson that when he is alone or with white friends he will be treated with a certain level of privilege that his black stepbrother will never know, and he has seen this happen time and time again. Ironically, he is the one who likes to sag his pants, yet he has never been harassed by the police even in situations where he probably should have been.

My black son—I have always taught him to treat the police the same way he would a Klansman, because in parts of the south where he grew up, they were often the same. He is taught to interact with them as little as possible. Get stopped for a traffic violation: Use your Sunday school manners. Keep your hands where they can be seen, and above all else, do not argue. My daddy passed on that lesson to me, and sadly, if I have grandchildren, it seems they too will have to get this same, dirty lesson.
Michele Sims-Burton, "fifties," Alexandria, Va.

I have a 24-year-old son. I have given him the talk. He has been with me when the police stopped me, primarily because the police recklessly eyeballed my son, and didn't see me—the little old lady—driving the car. So he knows the drill. Ask the police before you reach for your license. Ask the police for permission to get your insurance card and registration out the glove box. Do not answer any questions. Just do as you are told.

Once my son and I were getting out the car at the shopping mall, the police approached him and asked him: "Did you just leave the mall?" I intervened. I instructed my son to "never, ever answer a question from the police." Ask the police: "Am I free to go?" Do not answer any questions. Be polite. Be cordial. But never answer any questions. Keep asking: "Am I free to go?" "Am I under arrest?" "What are the charges?" "May I make a phone call?" However, do not move suddenly. Do not get smart-alecky. Do not run. If the police start swinging, drop to the ground, protect your head and vital organs by curling up in a ball on your knees.

I've given my son this talk. And it terrifies me that in 2014, I text and call my son throughout the day not because I miss him so much, but because I am checking on his safety in this racist, militaristic society.
Godfrey David, 25, Brooklyn, N.Y.
I've been given this talk many times by many people. Don't be aggressive. Police usually work in groups of two: If you see one, assume there is one you cannot see. Nine times out of ten, people will believe the police over believing you. If a cop hits you, don't fight back: Hope that someone will notice and say something. Never match outfits: More than three men dressed in the same color equals a gang.

When I was younger, I listened, but I didn't think it applied to me. My eyes weren't opened until I was older; I was stopped numerous times in high school. I played the French horn, and was once pulled off the train by a cop who thought it was a bomb or that I was smuggling drugs or weapons. In college, I was accused of stealing laptops, and a policeman came to my door. He was actually pretty nice, though.

I think the advice I was given is great. It's very practical. I plan on having kids and I want to be a great role model. But I find myself thinking on the world they're going to live in. The future doesn't look so bright. A growing fear of mine is that I will die at the hands of a police officer. What scares me the most is it happening in front of my children.
Nico Davis, 25, Gary, In.
Growing up in Gary, Indiana, the so-called murder capital of America, has shaped my experience. We saw cops attack first and ask questions later. So the first lessons came as microaggressions. Barbershop banter about the newest black celebrity victim, showing you that socioeconomic status didn't matter because you'll still look black. Seeing your parents shrink into themselves when talking to officers, going back to "servant talk," as it was called it back then.

The big talk came after we were disrespected in our own home by police. When my mom came home, she was furious! Ranting mad! Now was the time for the talk. "Cops don't care about black people."

No sugarcoating. There it was. "Look, stay away from cops. They are not your friends. You answer their questions if they ask you with 'yes sir' and 'no ma'am' unless it is incriminating, then you exercise your right to be silent. Don't talk back, don't even slouch, pull up your pants. Be polite, no sudden movements. Don't give him a reason because these cops will shoot you and not think twice about it." She used choice other words, but that was it. All our suspicions, fears about police vocalized by the smartest person we knew.

My kids will get all the talks. I'll teach them to respect the law and the people tasked to uphold it, but to be weary of them as well, because they are still people, too. Flawed people. I will teach them that hate has many forms and racism is but one head of the hydra. I will teach them to speak out when their rights are violated and treat every injustice with the incredulity it deserves.

Because I never want my kids to be used to it. To think it's normal behavior to be dehumanized by others. I will teach that no reason is enough to justify their demise. I will teach them that they are human, too, regardless of their hue and their personhood doesn't need to qualified with descriptors like "honor roll student," "good kid," or "nice to everyone." Maybe we'll get justice before that time comes. Just maybe.
Mordecai Cargill, 23, Cleveland, Ohio
It's really been an on-going dialogue. Since I was very young, I have been very aware of the fact that my blackness and my maleness/manhood—two features that are essential to my identity—make me both a target and a threat. My parents, especially my father, made sure to impress upon me the seriousness of this predicament. Not because my being a black man is something I should be ashamed of, but because they fear for my well-being.

As a minority student at a predominantly white prep school, I discovered what it meant to be a subject of examination. Boys who were not like me, some of whom had never really been around black people, were often intrigued by the way I talked, the way I dressed, the way my hair felt, etc.

In high school, when I started to really develop (physically, that is) into a man, is when I started to feel like a threat, and paradoxically, threatened. This was when the lectures began to take on an even more urgent and desperate tone. My father would harp on the dangers of dressing like "a thug," or listening to loud, explicit music. He cautioned me not to give people an excuse to harass or even arrest me. I'd listen and dismiss his warnings as the stale pronouncements of old guy who was completely out of touch with what was going on. As I've continued to mature, I've gained some understanding of the real fear behind my father's lectures.

Not too long ago I was haunted by the words of James Baldwin, in an interview, challenging the white reporter: "You try facing your son, on the day that he is first called 'nigger,' in land of the free and the home of the brave." I can't imagine what I'd say to my son, but I'm sure it'd be very similar to what my father said to me.
Robert Stephens, 26, Kansas City, Mo.
It was the last day of school, and I was walking with my dad, preparing to leave. Suddenly, he paused, looked at me intently and said, "Son, you're a black male, and that's two strikes against you." To the general public, anything that I did would be perceived as malicious and deserving of severe punishment and I had to govern myself accordingly.

I was seven years old.

In time, I would come to understand this moment as "the talk." The talk wasn't respectability politics, it was survival. His words weren't offered as a solution to racism—as if personal conduct could erase structural forces and counteract the weight of history. His motivation was simple, he wanted to see me alive and well, and he believed that understanding the potential consequences of my blackness was necessary for my well being, both physical and mental.

Years passed, and my father's wisdom regarding the dangerous consequences of blacknesses rang true time and again. Now, after he passed, I find myself in the same position where he once stood—wanting to see my people alive and well despite a society that lives off of our deaths.

My nephew is 13 years old, half my age. When he was 11, we were at a grocery store in Durham, N.C., and he was being goofy per usual. I pulled him to the side, looked him in the eye and explained to him that when he's in public, especially when around white people, he had to avoid drawing attention to himself because, as a black boy, anything he did was likely to be perceived as menacing and deserving of punishment (even death). He nodded and we quietly finished shopping.

It was "the talk," much like my father had given me—and it should not be a right of passage. I'm pretty young, and I'm already tired of having to give black kids "the talk."
Fatima, 27, Boston, Mass.
I gave my seven-year-old son a talk about Ferguson. I was brutally honest. Maybe too honest. I told him that the police put a target on black men on this country. I told him I am angry because I don't want him dead or in jail one day for a crime he either didn't commit, or because he was minding his business and a police officer sees he fits "the profile."

He asked if I thought he was going to die by the police one day. I told him that I don't think that will happen, but that I am scared because I have no control over the police's actions. He was also… scared. Worried. Troubled about what I said. I'm sure up until that point, he had the impression that the police were there to protect people. I like being honest with my son.

When he went to the rally in Boston with me, he was scared to even look at the police. That I feel a tiny bit of guilt for, but I think he should be scared of the police. I know I am. I'm scared for him! Its a continuous conversation for us, and I let him know that right now the police won't come after him, and that's only because he's 7. It's only a matter of time where he can't protect himself from the police solely because of how he looks. And it's only a matter of time before I can't protect him either.

I see my son in all of the victims who have died from police murder and brutality. Every last one of them. I can't even begin to imagine what Mike Brown's mother is going through. My son is my soul. My light of my life. I will gladly take any bullet, whatever, if thats what it means to keep him safe.

But I can't protect him from the police. And that terrifies me. So I have to do something now, to at least try to make change so my son can walk the streets freely and be protected instead of beaten, harassed, targeted or murdered.
Junius Hughes, 48, New Haven, Conn.
I got the talk when I was about thirteen, in the late '70s, when I moved from Brooklyn to Virginia. I had a pretty guarded life in Brooklyn, but Virginia was immediately different: blacks only interacted with blacks, and whites only interacted with whites. It made me hate the South.

I gave your brother the same talk my father gave me: be respectful, but don't be an Uncle Tom. Never give them a reason. Your blackness is already reason enough—don't give them another. The moment you resist that authority, it gets out of hand.

Young black males—we have a lot of braggadocio. We want to look cool, but we don't always act right. That's what the black male has to fight against, that kind of brutality against ourselves, and that's the problem. That's all that cops see.

The playing field between white cops and black males will never be equal. There's an inherent tension. You already fit a profile, and they're coming to you with that understanding. The white American male will always be on a higher pedestal than you. A cop has a badge, a license to shoot, and a gun, and, if he's worried about his safety, he's gonna make sure that if anyone goes home that night, it'll be him.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

Post by Simon_Jester »

Has anyone ever done a statistical analysis of the difference in behavior between black and white police officers?
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

Post by Channel72 »

Yeah, that's an interesting question. A lot of these profiling problems can probably be mitigated with multi-racial police forces. Consider a city like Newark, New Jersey: the majority of the population is black, but most of the police force is also black. (The Chief of Police is black as well) - so you don't get the kind of racial tensions you find in the South. Young black males, who often grow up amidst poverty and crime, often still have an antagonistic relationship with the police, however this tension is orthogonal to race.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

Post by Broomstick »

Having black officers can help, but it won't solve everything. One of the people quoted was from Gary, Indiana, where I live and there is still a disturbing tendency here for people to be treated differently by the police according to their race. A cop being black is no guarantee that cop will treat others fairly, and there can still be friction between different races on the police force.

That said, even as a harmless-looking white woman when I encounter police I most certainly moderate my language, move slowly, keep my hands in sight, let the cops know what I'm going to do before reaching for a glove box or my wallet, and so forth. The sad truth is, though, that I'm far less likely to be abused by the local cops than a young, black man.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

Post by cosmicalstorm »

That is a nasty social feedback loop.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

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Yeah - and that's the problem. As racist as it sounds, young black males are statistically more likely to commit crimes than young white males. Of course, a large part of that statistic is frustatingly circular; young black males are more likely to be falsely accused of crimes as well - so it creates an obnoxiously recursive problem. The root of this is that, taking the profiling factor out of the equation, young black males are still probably more likely to commit crimes because of economic factors - we still haven't reached economic parity between whites and blacks, however we are slowly approaching it.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

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On the other hand, the abusive and disrespectful attitude of law enforcement isn't appropriate even if that's true. It creates (and then feeds off of) that 'braggadocio' referenced in the article.

Because for a teenage male, there's only about one response psychologically possible to "the authorities hate me and treat me like a convict no matter what," or at least only one that allows a shred of self-respect, And that is to go "yeah, I'm dangerous, I'm a badass, I follow my in-group's special customs for showing I'm badass, I'm cunning*, I can make people look foolish in conversation, and by virtue of all this badassery, I can scare people easily and my opinion will always triumph if I assert it properly."

So in the face of intimidation there's a desire to affirm one's own strength, cunning, and fearlessness- the archetypal heroic traits that allow said heroes to triumph over adversity. The problem is that when the police have set themselves up as the villains in your own personal narrative... well, if you're an intemperate youth, you try to show off those heroic traits at the villain's expense. Which doesn't get you very far with the police.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

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Channel72 wrote:Yeah - and that's the problem. As racist as it sounds, young black males are statistically more likely to commit crimes than young white males. Of course, a large part of that statistic is frustatingly circular; young black males are more likely to be falsely accused of crimes as well - so it creates an obnoxiously recursive problem. The root of this is that, taking the profiling factor out of the equation, young black males are still probably more likely to commit crimes because of economic factors - we still haven't reached economic parity between whites and blacks, however we are slowly approaching it.
the argument against that Channel, is that both whites and blacks are statistically extremely likely to NOT commit a crime. So the default shouldn't be 'this person is more likely to be trouble' and it should be 'this person is unlikely to be trouble'. It's not how humans think, but it's true.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

Post by Patroklos »

madd0ct0r wrote:
Channel72 wrote:Yeah - and that's the problem. As racist as it sounds, young black males are statistically more likely to commit crimes than young white males. Of course, a large part of that statistic is frustatingly circular; young black males are more likely to be falsely accused of crimes as well - so it creates an obnoxiously recursive problem. The root of this is that, taking the profiling factor out of the equation, young black males are still probably more likely to commit crimes because of economic factors - we still haven't reached economic parity between whites and blacks, however we are slowly approaching it.
the argument against that Channel, is that both whites and blacks are statistically extremely likely to NOT commit a crime. So the default shouldn't be 'this person is more likely to be trouble' and it should be 'this person is unlikely to be trouble'. It's not how humans think, but it's true.
You need to be carful with that though because police behavior also changes based on where they patrol. A South Carolina trailer park (populated by whites or blacks) gets a lot more scrutiny than say a posh condo restaurant district based on each areas crime rate as well, which is probably going to higher than the overall criminality of the racial makeup of the residents on an overall basis.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

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Yeah, but just watch what happens when people from the trailer park start walking around the condo restaurant district.

And watch which group from the trailer park get stopped by police for being 'out of place' most.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

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Police are not to be trusted. Under any circumstance. They are trained to lie to you. They are trained to suspect you. They are paid to arrest you. They are becoming more and more militarized every day. They are above the laws they are paid to enforce "uphold". Avoid police at all costs.

That is the lesson I would pass on to any children I may have or anyone that will listen regardless of color.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

Post by sarevok2 »

Just wondering, how are south asian people (pakistanis,bengalis, indians etc) treated by US police ? I have never heard anyone complain about it, maybe we are like a model minority or something?
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Wouldn't this advice apply to white people in general since it isn't only cops that kill black males under questionable circumstances.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

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sarevok2 wrote:Just wondering, how are south asian people (pakistanis,bengalis, indians etc) treated by US police ? I have never heard anyone complain about it, maybe we are like a model minority or something?
I hang out with Indians, they comment about the cops and general racism all the time. Main difference being that Indians in America tend to be relatively wealthy as a group whereas blacks tend to be poor.

What do you mean by model minority.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

Post by Channel72 »

It's really only blacks and Hispanics who have a reputation of being potentially "dangerous" and thus likely to be mistreated by cops. Asians (including East-Asian/Indian/Pakistani) may suffer from some insulting stereotypes, but I don't think they're likely to be profiled or abused by the police anywhere near the extent that African Americans have to deal with.

And of course, these two groups (blacks and Hispanics) have lower average incomes than any other group - everything boils down to economics. This is pretty obvious; Asian peoples emigrated to the United States from halfway across the world - meaning they were already somewhat successful/educated/wealthy in the first place. African Americans are an historically oppressed minority who've been here for centuries now, and Hispanics (due to their proximity) don't need to be as successful/educated/wealthy to get into the US, so a lot of the Hispanics here are poor.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

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Havok wrote:Police are not to be trusted. Under any circumstance. They are trained to lie to you. They are trained to suspect you. They are paid to arrest you. They are becoming more and more militarized every day. They are above the laws they are paid to enforce "uphold". Avoid police at all costs.

That is the lesson I would pass on to any children I may have or anyone that will listen regardless of color.
That is seriously an exaggeration, and pretty irresponsible to say to a child. A child needs to have some confidence in the police in order to make responsible decisions (like when to call 911). The mundane reality is that despite all this shit in the media, most police spend their time doing boring things like writing traffic tickets and responding to domestic issues.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

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Havok's got plenty of experience of cop behaviour, I'd say he is to be trusted at least regarding his local PD.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

Post by Broomstick »

It does vary by location. I pretty much don't trust City of Chicago cops at all, I've known too many who were dirty. My current local sheriff and deputies, though, seem pretty competent and not inclined to be assholes.

That said, if something bad is happening all police have a tendency to arrest first and sort it out later. They're interested in restoring order, not making determinations of guilt or innocence.

People should be able to go to police for help when they need it. If they can't, then something is really wrong.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

Post by Darth Yoshi »

ArmorPierce wrote:What do you mean by model minority.
The model minority is a stereotype where some minority is thought to do better than average. The name comes from the idea that such minorities are "success stories" that other minorities should try to emulate. Which, as Channel72 notes, is a superficial view that ignores the underlying causes for the differences between the economic situations of the minorities.

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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

Post by Channel72 »

Broomstick wrote:It does vary by location. I pretty much don't trust City of Chicago cops at all, I've known too many who were dirty. My current local sheriff and deputies, though, seem pretty competent and not inclined to be assholes.
Which is why it's pretty useless to generalize. For the most part I trust cops enough to ask them for assistance if needed. I mean people ask NYPD officers all the time for things like directions, or to inform them about some crime in progress, or some out-of-control homeless guy, or if there's a health emergency or whatever. They're mostly pretty friendly. (Although anecdotally, the most absurdly friendly police force I've ever encountered was the Toronto police... is everyone in Canada always so happy??)

Anyway, it looks like the NYPD at least is getting serious about bodycams, or at least "beta-testing" them:

Source: http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/20 ... t_914.html
STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. -- Police Commissioner Bill Bratton announced that he's "actively looking" at equipping police officers with body cameras, and made the pilot presentation to union officials Thursday.

Bratton considered how the police-worn body cameras were implemented in other cities, like Los Angeles, where he served as police chief, and plans to begin the initiative with 50 officers, according to the New York Post.

"It's a technology that I support strongly," Bratton said at a news conference Thursday. "It's a technology that is needed in American to help deal with so many of the events that we're seeing."

"And I would fully expect that before I leave as police commissioner, this department will be probably the best technology equipped department in America," he added.

In the wake of Eric Garner's death in police custody last month in Tompkinsville, Public Advocate Letitia James recently proposed a pilot program in which the NYPD would be outfitted with body cameras to record incidents with police.

Ms. James' proposal suggested the city's precincts with the highest complaints use the body cameras, including the 120 Precinct in St. George. Her proposal said it would cost about $32 million to outfit the entire department with body cameras.

"I've been proud to lead the push for equipping NYPD officers with body-worn video cameras because doing so will provide transparency, accountability, and protection for both the police officers and those they serve, while reducing financial losses for the city," Ms. James said in a statement Thursday. "(The) announcement that the NYPD is taking steps towards this goal is an important development. But the success of a pilot program can only be achieved by establishing clear rules and procedures with respect to camera operation and data collection. I look forward to working with the administration to make this proposal a reality."

Ms. James debuted a piece of the technology for the body-worn cameras last week.

The prospect of putting body cameras on police officers was introduced last year amid a series of sweeping changes ordered by U.S. District Court Judge Shira Scheindlin, who ruled that the NYPD intentionally discriminated against Blacks and Hispanics with its stop-and-frisk practices.
I didn't know the LAPD already uses bodycams.

Anyway, really - this pretty much solves everything, if it is implemented on a wide scale.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

Post by Zor »

Havok wrote:Police are not to be trusted. Under any circumstance. They are trained to lie to you. They are trained to suspect you. They are paid to arrest you. They are becoming more and more militarized every day. They are above the laws they are paid to enforce "uphold". Avoid police at all costs.

That is the lesson I would pass on to any children I may have or anyone that will listen regardless of color.
Police are a necessary institution for modern society to keep order. This attitude of yours is counterproductive and if adopted would only.

Also there are plenty of instances of dirty cops getting busted and criminals who are not police getting away scot-free. Police are not above the law. At most that's bad hyperbole and you know it.

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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

Post by Maraxus »

Channel72 wrote:Which is why it's pretty useless to generalize. For the most part I trust cops enough to ask them for assistance if needed. I mean people ask NYPD officers all the time for things like directions, or to inform them about some crime in progress, or some out-of-control homeless guy, or if there's a health emergency or whatever. They're mostly pretty friendly. (Although anecdotally, the most absurdly friendly police force I've ever encountered was the Toronto police... is everyone in Canada always so happy??)

Anyway, it looks like the NYPD at least is getting serious about bodycams, or at least "beta-testing" them:

[SNIP]

I didn't know the LAPD already uses bodycams.

Anyway, really - this pretty much solves everything, if it is implemented on a wide scale.
Not quite. Bodycams won't stop police militarization, widespread drug sentencing disparities, aggressive police enforcement in black and brown neighborhoods, obviously failed "broken windows" policing schemes, or any of the other things that put people of color in the prison system. Bodycams definitely won't get rid of the root problems either; they're not going to make police departments more diverse, nor will they put cops on the beat in neighborhoods where they live. They won't get rid of the structural racism that's really behind all of these problems.

By the by, Bratton's suggesting those bodycams because: A. they've been getting more popular as people see them as a panacea to a whole bunch of deeper issues, B. He's been taking a beating in the press over Garner's death, and C. de Blasio has to do something to make the NYPD be nicer, especially since Gov. Cuomo handed him his hat re: his past campaign promises. Whether they're actually serious about implementing them on a wide scale I'm not sure. Whether or not it'll have a measurable impact seems kinda doubtful, tbh.

Channel, out of curiosity, do you consider yourself white? I am, and I'm kinda with you on the whole trusting cops thing. But I totally get where Hav's coming from since I've been harassed by bored small-town cops while I've hung out with some non-white friends. Given all of the horrible shit police agencies do to people of color on a daily basis, I'm not surprised when people of color say that they absolutely don't trust cops, especially white ones. The fact that white folks tend not to believe them when they speak up is also not super helpful.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

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Havok wrote:Police are not to be trusted. Under any circumstance. They are trained to lie to you. They are trained to suspect you. They are paid to arrest you. They are becoming more and more militarized every day. They are above the laws they are paid to enforce "uphold". Avoid police at all costs.

That is the lesson I would pass on to any children I may have or anyone that will listen regardless of color.
With the addition of being polite and as respectful as the situation allows to this, Hav hit it on the goddamn head for dealing with cops in the US. They are not your friends, ever. Even if you called them yourself, they are not your friends, they aren't your protectors, and they most likely don;t care a fucking bit about you other than assessing you for signs of "suspicious activity". Trust them at your own peril.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

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Zor wrote:Police are a necessary institution for modern society to keep order. This attitude of yours is counterproductive and if adopted would only.

Also there are plenty of instances of dirty cops getting busted and criminals who are not police getting away scot-free. Police are not above the law. At most that's bad hyperbole and you know it.
I'll be more amenable to points like this when more officers from Ferguson see a courtroom. I don't much care for people who tear gas fucking reporters.

Police are necessary to keep order, but they need the trust of the community in order to do so effectively. Actions like this squander and abuse that trust.
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Re: What Black Parents Tell Their Sons About the Police

Post by Batman »

Sorry, Zor. When the only police you actually see essentially act like just another gang except they don't have to worry about legal consequences much I'd be extremely wary about interacting with them at all too. Is that an unfair generalization about Policing in the US as a whole? Hopefully and likely probably. Which doesn't do beans to help the people who are settled with corrupt/abusive cops (which seems to be a depressingly large lot of the US populace).
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