IS crisis in Iraq and Syria

[Channel72]

Source : http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/world ... ution.html

The Islamic State in Iraq and Syria posted a video on Tuesday that it said showed the beheading of James Foley, an American journalist who was kidnapped in Syria nearly two years ago, according to a transcript released by the SITE Intelligence Group.

The authenticity of the video, which was also posted on YouTube, could not be verified, and a telephone call placed to Mr. Foley’s family was not immediately returned. YouTube later took down the four-minute, 40-second video.

Titled “A Message to America,” the video shows the journalist kneeling in a desert landscape, clad in an orange jumpsuit — an apparent reference to the uniforms worn by prisoners at the American military detention camp in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. Standing to his left is a masked ISIS fighter, who begins speaking in English, with what sounds like an East London accent. Pulling out a knife, he says that Mr. Foley’s execution is in retaliation for the recent American airstrikes ordered by President Obama against the extremist group in Iraq.

“I call on my friends, family and loved ones to rise up against my real killers — the U.S. government — for what will happen to me is only a result of their complacent criminality,” Mr. Foley says in the video, which was uploaded to the online account of the al-Furqan Media Foundation, according to SITE, an organization that follows jihadist groups. He ends saying that when American soldiers began dropping bombs on Iraq this month, “they signed my death certificate.”

On Tuesday night, Mr. Foley’s mother, Diane Foley, issued a statement on the Facebook page the family had created to publicize their son’s disappearance: “We have never been prouder of our son Jim. He gave his life trying to expose the world to the suffering of the Syrian people. We implore the kidnappers to spare the lives of the remaining hostages. Like Jim, they are innocents. They have no control over American government policy in Iraq, Syria or anywhere in the world.”

Two weeks ago, in the wake of American-led airstrikes against the terrorist group, which was fanning out across Iraq, jihadists had taken to social media to call for attacks on American interests. In the three hours after the graphic video of Mr. Foley’s beheading was uploaded on YouTube, jihadists using the hashtag “#NewMessageFromISIStoUS” surpassed 2,000 tweets, according to a survey by SITE, with many fighters gloating over his death, and calling it just retribution for the air raids.

Mr. Foley, 40, a freelance journalist who was working for GlobalPost, an online publication based in Boston, as well as for Agence France-Presse, disappeared in Syria on Nov. 22, 2012. He was held alongside several other Americans, whose families have asked for a news blackout.

The video concludes with the fighter threatening to kill Steven Sotloff, another American freelance journalist, who was being held alongside Mr. Foley. Mr. Sotloff is seen kneeling in the same position, in the same landscape and wearing the same style of orange-colored jumpsuit. “The life of this American citizen, Obama, depends on your next decision,” the fighter says.

Mr. Obama was briefed about the video by Benjamin J. Rhodes, the deputy national security adviser, on Air Force One as he returned to Martha’s Vineyard, according to Eric Schultz, the deputy White House press secretary.

In Washington, a National Security Council spokeswoman, Caitlin Hayden, said in a statement: “We have seen a video that purports to be the murder of U.S. citizen James Foley by ISIL. The intelligence community is working as quickly as possible to determine its authenticity. If genuine, we are appalled by the brutal murder of an innocent American journalist,” she said, using an alternative name for ISIS.

Reached by telephone, Philip Balboni, the chief executive and a founder of GlobalPost, said that the newsroom and Mr. Foley’s family were also trying to establish the veracity of the footage. “We are still evaluating the video at this time,” he said.

Mr. Foley, who was last seen in Binesh, Syria, was also abducted in Libya in 2011, where he was held for several weeks after running into troops loyal to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi’s crumbling government.

He was among dozens of journalists — many of them freelancers without the formal backing of a news organization — who disappeared in 2012 and 2013 in Syria.

Real classy, ISIS.

I really can hardly wait for the day when the Kurds and other international forces wipe these Jihadist idiots off the map.

And... Obama's response:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/21/us/po ... obama.html

Basically, Obama's response comes down to: fuck you ISIS. More airstrikes it is.


Meanwhile, in Europe.... Germany and Italy get in on the action, promising to supply the Kurds with weapons.

[Channel72]

And... Germany is pretty much committed to supplying the Kurds with weapons at this point, despite their postwar arms doctrine:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-2 ... ersal.html

Obama has managed to pull together more of a serious "international coalition" than Bush ever could.

[Rogue 9]

And... Germany is pretty much committed to supplying the Kurds with weapons at this point, despite their postwar arms doctrine:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-2 ... ersal.html

Obama has managed to pull together more of a serious "international coalition" than Bush ever could.

That's not hard when the enemy the coalition is forming to oppose is actively making war and slaughtering civilians at this very moment instead of twenty years before as was the case with Saddam Hussein.

[Grumman]

Yeah, between the campaign of genocide, the sex slavery, the murder of foreign journalists and the expansionism, ISIS is making it very easy to justify kicking their teeth in. All they need to do is declare grilled puppy the national dish of ISIStan and I think they'd have all the bases covered.

[Metahive]

People are aware that the Kurds will use those weapons for causes other than fighting IS, right? Like shooting every Turk, Syrian, Iraqi or Iranian that stands in the way of Greater Kurdistan. IS are douchebags, but I would still think twice about just thoughtlessly arming the area up. That same mindless actionism brought us the whole malaise in Afghanistan after all.

[Broomstick]

Sure, they know that.

On the other hand, the Kurds are not presently engaging in an expansion campaign, butchering people of different faiths, butchering people even after they convert under duress to whatever the hell ISIS is promoting this week, enslaving women and children, explicitly commuting genocide, and crowing they'll take the fight global as soon as they can.

The Kurds are the lesser of the two evils. It's sort of like when the US and USSR teamed up in WWII. It wasn't because they were friends, it's because they had some common goals. It's getting to the point everyone wants ISIS gone.

I'm sorry about the journalists, but we can't trade the life of one man for tens of thousands, and we can't be held hostage to psychotic dirtbags. I'd like to be able to extract them, but the fact is these journalists chose to take on certain risks and I'm sure they were well aware that reporting in a war zone can get you killed. Unlike the innocents being mowed over by ISIS who were just minding their own business and trying to make a life for themselves when ISIS rolled into town and started killing, looting, raping, and oppressing.

[Gandalf]

People are aware that the Kurds will use those weapons for causes other than fighting IS, right? Like shooting every Turk, Syrian, Iraqi or Iranian that stands in the way of Greater Kurdistan. IS are douchebags, but I would still think twice about just thoughtlessly arming the area up. That same mindless actionism brought us the whole malaise in Afghanistan after all.

That's a problem for those people today, and maybe the rest of us tomorrow. Right now it's easier to just send weapons, and hope they stay friendly to western markets.

"There's a time to think, and a time to act. And this, gentlemen, is no time to think." - Bud Boomer

[Mr. Coffee]

People are aware that the Kurds will use those weapons for causes other than fighting IS, right? Like shooting every Turk, Syrian, Iraqi or Iranian that stands in the way of Greater Kurdistan. IS are douchebags, but I would still think twice about just thoughtlessly arming the area up. That same mindless actionism brought us the whole malaise in Afghanistan after all.

That's a problem for those people today, and maybe the rest of us tomorrow. Right now it's easier to just send weapons, and hope they stay friendly to western markets.

"There's a time to think, and a time to act. And this, gentlemen, is no time to think." - Bud Boomer

Do you have a better idea? One that will avert the current crisis as well as prevent future ones? No? Then kindly shut the fuck up. All you do is point out what we can't do, criticize, and generally state the goddamn obvious. Get a new gimmick, gand. Stark had that shit locked down for videogames, we don't need the same shit in N&P.

[Channel72]

People are aware that the Kurds will use those weapons for causes other than fighting IS, right? Like shooting every Turk, Syrian, Iraqi or Iranian that stands in the way of Greater Kurdistan. IS are douchebags, but I would still think twice about just thoughtlessly arming the area up. That same mindless actionism brought us the whole malaise in Afghanistan after all.

The Kurds have a good record of US-friendliness, going back to the "no-fly zone" days of pre-2003 Iraq. Regardless, it's either arm the Kurds or send in ground troops to do the dirty work, and Obama has decided it's way more politically expedient to make the Kurds handle this.

[Broomstick]

It helps that the Kurds are willing to do the fighting if the rest of the world gives them guns and ammo. Yes, it's callous and expedient, but that is how the world works on occassion.

[Gandalf]

Do you have a better idea? One that will avert the current crisis as well as prevent future ones? No?

Right now the best idea I've heard is based on using an international coalition (possibly through the UN) to send food and economic aid, combined with working with other Muslim leaders to discredit and (hopefully) delegitimise the movement at the heart of the IS. The idea is to address the cause, rather than throw bombs at the effect. Of course, this only works for one definition of the current issue, so this idea could be way off.

Then kindly shut the fuck up. All you do is point out what we can't do, criticize, and generally state the goddamn obvious. Get a new gimmick, gand. Stark had that shit locked down for videogames, we don't need the same shit in N&P.

You're certainly one to rail against gimmicks.

[cosmicalstorm]

The attention this moron is getting is stupefying. Why is the news of a white man getting his head cut off so big? These muslim warriors have been bulldozing childrens alive into massgraves and so on.
Going to Syria with a white skin is crazy and has been crazy for several years. He got himself to blame for this.

[K. A. Pital]

Plenty of perfectly white people used to work and live in Syria, before the democratization... Or rather, Great Jihad, started. So yeah. It is not the place but the time.

[Metahive]

Sure, they know that.

On the other hand, the Kurds are not presently engaging in an expansion campaign, butchering people of different faiths, butchering people even after they convert under duress to whatever the hell ISIS is promoting this week, enslaving women and children, explicitly commuting genocide, and crowing they'll take the fight global as soon as they can.

The Kurds are the lesser of the two evils. It's sort of like when the US and USSR teamed up in WWII. It wasn't because they were friends, it's because they had some common goals. It's getting to the point everyone wants ISIS gone.

The problem as I see it that there's no guarantee that the Kurds will keep fighting IS once they've chased them off territory they consider theirs. Instead they might very well use the chaos and distraction caused by IS to make their bid for a Kurdish state right then and there adding another flashpoint to an already inflamed area. If they're particularly cynical they might even deliberately leave IS alone so that the rest of the world keeps being distracted. Tribalism is a strong factor in that part of the world. I'm just awfully pessimistic when it comes to the Middle East.

The Kurds have a good record of US-friendliness, going back to the "no-fly zone" days of pre-2003 Iraq. Regardless, it's either arm the Kurds or send in ground troops to do the dirty work, and Obama has decided it's way more politically expedient to make the Kurds handle this.

Well, US friendliness. All those states with kurdish minorities in them have a less friendly mutual disposition.

[Lolpah]

The attention this moron is getting is stupefying. Why is the news of a white man getting his head cut off so big? These muslim warriors have been bulldozing childrens alive into massgraves and so on.
Going to Syria with a white skin is crazy and has been crazy for several years. He got himself to blame for this.

...

Are you fucking serious?

[Welf]

Right now the best idea I've heard is based on using an international coalition (possibly through the UN) to send food and economic aid, combined with working with other Muslim leaders to discredit and (hopefully) delegitimise the movement at the heart of the IS. The idea is to address the cause, rather than throw bombs at the effect. Of course, this only works for one definition of the current issue, so this idea could be way off.

Well that is one useless advice. ISIS is killing people now. We wanted to hear an solution for that.

Also, do you really think they are popular or have any kind of legitimization? They rule because they are a close-knit group of fanatics without mercy. And they are Sunni Muslims, not Catholics. There isn't a Sunni pope in Mekka, Kairo or Damascus that can excommunicate them. And even there was I doubt a revolutionary movement that tries to reshape the world would even listen.

[Simon_Jester]

The problem as I see it that there's no guarantee that the Kurds will keep fighting IS once they've chased them off territory they consider theirs. Instead they might very well use the chaos and distraction caused by IS to make their bid for a Kurdish state right then and there adding another flashpoint to an already inflamed area.

Possibly, but at least it creates a region into which ISIL cannot go. It is much easier to chase down and destroy an enemy when you can pin them against some hard, unyielding obstacle like a wall, a coastline, or a bunch of angry Kurds with machine guns.

Also, the Iraqi Kurds have a history of cooperating with the West on a basic level. Not least, I think, because they know their ambitions make them enemies and they need a backer. So while using them as proxies to fight ISIL may not accomplish as much as we'd like, it can still accomplish more than nothing.

[Mr. Coffee]

Do you have a better idea? One that will avert the current crisis as well as prevent future ones? No?

Right now the best idea I've heard is based on using an international coalition (possibly through the UN) to send food and economic aid, combined with working with other Muslim leaders to discredit and (hopefully) delegitimise the movement at the heart of the IS. The idea is to address the cause, rather than throw bombs at the effect. Of course, this only works for one definition of the current issue, so this idea could be way off.

Yeah, but what is the short term plan for getting IS to stop beheading random people over religious nuttery? You can address causes and the like all you want, but that takes time to work. Meanwhile, people are dying, history is being destroyed, and a bunch of sandy assed peckerheads slowly expand their area of control.

You're certainly one to rail against gimmicks.

At least I try new ones. Y'all down there in Oz seem to latch o to oe gimmick and just ride that thing till it's lathered and about to drop dead.

[Channel72]

The attention this moron is getting is stupefying. Why is the news of a white man getting his head cut off so big? These muslim warriors have been bulldozing childrens alive into massgraves and so on.

I think we all know the answer to that...

Americans need the media to put an (American) face on a story before they can muster significant outrage.

The problem as I see it that there's no guarantee that the Kurds will keep fighting IS once they've chased them off territory they consider theirs. Instead they might very well use the chaos and distraction caused by IS to make their bid for a Kurdish state right then and there adding another flashpoint to an already inflamed area. If they're particularly cynical they might even deliberately leave IS alone so that the rest of the world keeps being distracted. Tribalism is a strong factor in that part of the world. I'm just awfully pessimistic when it comes to the Middle East.

Although, Metahive makes an interesting point. If the Kurds end up heroically squashing ISIS, (meanwhile the Shi'a military turned tail and ran), the political capital they'll have in the Iraqi Dawa government will be significant. They'll be in a position to make serious demands.

[Channel72]

Also, the attention Foley is getting is partially because ISIS is using these journalists as a bargaining chip with Obama. They're threatening to execute another journalist if Obama orders more airstrikes. But, Obama ordered more airstrikes anyway, and I reluctantly have to agree with Broomstick on the matter regarding the lives of these poor journalists. Essentially, allowing ISIS to kill them is worth it if it stops (or even stalls) ISIS from their genocidal rampage.

[TheHammer]

Can we agree on what to call ISIS, or ISIL? Reminds me of the various spellings of Al Qaeda and Bin Laden I'd always see all over the place. Pick a designation and go with it!

[Raw Shark]

Also, the attention Foley is getting is partially because ISIS is using these journalists as a bargaining chip with Obama. They're threatening to execute another journalist if Obama orders more airstrikes. But, Obama ordered more airstrikes anyway, and I reluctantly have to agree with Broomstick on the matter regarding the lives of these poor journalists. Essentially, allowing ISIS to kill them is worth it if it stops (or even stalls) ISIS from their genocidal rampage.

It's just a bad move all-around. Killing journalists makes it look like you have something to hide, period, full stop. Every reasonable party who thinks there is any possibility of convincing others they are right support journalism. There is no win here, just total desperation.

[Elheru Aran]

Also, the attention Foley is getting is partially because ISIS is using these journalists as a bargaining chip with Obama. They're threatening to execute another journalist if Obama orders more airstrikes. But, Obama ordered more airstrikes anyway, and I reluctantly have to agree with Broomstick on the matter regarding the lives of these poor journalists. Essentially, allowing ISIS to kill them is worth it if it stops (or even stalls) ISIS from their genocidal rampage.

It's just a bad move all-around. Killing journalists makes it look like you have something to hide, period, full stop. Every reasonable party who thinks there is any possibility of convincing others they are right support journalism. There is no win here, just total desperation.

I suspect desperation doesn't play into their calculations. They're religious fanatics on a mission; the only desperation they have is that they won't finish their mission. The journalists are mouthpieces of Western propaganda, and they don't really give a shit about what the West thinks of them.

[Alyrium Denryle]

People are aware that the Kurds will use those weapons for causes other than fighting IS, right? Like shooting every Turk, Syrian, Iraqi or Iranian that stands in the way of Greater Kurdistan. IS are douchebags, but I would still think twice about just thoughtlessly arming the area up. That same mindless actionism brought us the whole malaise in Afghanistan after all.

The Kurds are a different story. They are not insane bugaboos by and large. Their organizations are Tier III terrorist groups, not Tier I or II (basically, mostly legitimate organizations that occasionally have a fanatic who goes off the reservation). They want their own state, and are happy to either use violence or diplomacy to get it. They can be worked with. We are going to have to abandon the idea of Iraq being a unitary whole potentially, and recognize Iraqi Kurdistan as a state rather than semi-autonomous region (IIRC, that is basically what it is), but it seems to me that they will be rather happy with that, at least in the short to medium term. If they end up taking bits of Syria, fine, it is Kurds who live in those area anyway. At this point, even the Turks are working with them (going from memory here, so I could be wrong), and if it is good enough for the Turks, it is good enough for me. Afterall, they have skin in the Kurdish game.

[Elheru Aran]

I believe the parallel has been drawn between the Kurds and the Native American tribes in the US. The big exception is that nobody has really been willing to give the Kurds a place to live, and they want an independent country rather than a reservation or protectorate. There's also the complication that their "homeland" is divided up between, IIRC, Iraq, Syria and Turkey-- possibly also Iran-- none of which are really on very good speaking terms at pretty much any time and don't care to come to an agreement to surrender parts of their territory to people who have for a very long time been viewed as anti-government rebels because, well, they are. It's only in the past decade or so that the Kurdish independence movement has been legitimized in any serious way.