Well paid women can't find good husbands

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Borgholio
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6297
Joined: 2010-09-03 09:31pm
Location: Southern California

Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Borgholio »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/1 ... 54150.html
Days after Senate Republicans unanimously blocked a vote on the Paycheck Fairness Act, Phyllis Schlafly, founder of "pro-family" organization Eagle Forum, claimed that providing women with equal pay for equal work would deter their chances of finding a “suitable mate” in a Christian Post op-ed published Tuesday.

Since a woman prefers to marry a man who makes more money than she does, Schlafly argued, decreasing the gender pay gap would leave women unable to secure a husband.

Schlafly, a longtime opponent of the Equal Rights Amendment, wrote:

Another fact is the influence of hypergamy, which means that women typically choose a mate (husband or boyfriend) who earns more than she does. Men don't have the same preference for a higher-earning mate.

While women prefer to HAVE a higher-earning partner, men generally prefer to BE the higher-earning partner in a relationship. This simple but profound difference between the sexes has powerful consequences for the so-called pay gap.

Suppose the pay gap between men and women were magically eliminated. If that happened, simple arithmetic suggests that half of women would be unable to find what they regard as a suitable mate.

The conservative activist also noted that women do not deserve equal pay because they "work fewer hours per day, per week, per year” and “place a much higher value on pleasant working conditions: a clean, comfortable, air-conditioned office with congenial co-workers.”

Schlafly concluded that the best way to empower women "is to improve job prospects for the men in their lives, even if that means increasing the so-called pay gap."

Earlier this month, Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-Tenn.) defended Republicans’ opposition to equal pay legislation, insisting the GOP has long "led the fight for women's equality." Previously, she voted against the 2009 Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.

“I find this war on women rhetoric almost silly,” Blackburn said on CBS' "Face the Nation" on Sunday. “It is Republicans that have led the fight for women’s equality. Go back through history -- and look at who was the first woman to vote, to get elected to office, to go to Congress, four out of five governors.”
If there is such a thing as being a traitor to one's own gender, these GOP women are it.
Phyllis Schlafly, founder of "pro-family" organization Eagle Forum, claimed that providing women with equal pay for equal work would deter their chances of finding a “suitable mate”
Earlier this month, Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-Tenn.) defended Republicans’ opposition to equal pay legislation, insisting the GOP has long "led the fight for women's equality." Previously, she voted against the 2009 Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.
I just fail to understand how someone can be against ideas that actually improve their own quality of life. How can these women look in the mirror in the morning and say "Today I will fight for someone else to have control over my own reproductive organs. Today I will fight for lower wages and dependance on finding a husband. Today, I will do my best to be a model second-class citizen and force others to be the same."

I...

I mean...what the flipping fuck is wrong with these people?
You will be assimilated...bunghole!
User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 11235
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by mr friendly guy »

Borgholio wrote:
I just fail to understand how someone can be against ideas that actually improve their own quality of life. How can these women look in the mirror in the morning and say "Today I will fight for someone else to have control over my own reproductive organs. Today I will fight for lower wages and dependance on finding a husband. Today, I will do my best to be a model second-class citizen and force others to be the same."

I...

I mean...what the flipping fuck is wrong with these people?
I imagine the same reasons some Blacks supported apartheid or why some women back in the door argued against giving women the right to vote. A combination of political expediency and indoctrination.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
User avatar
Borgholio
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6297
Joined: 2010-09-03 09:31pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Borgholio »

Must take a lot of indoctrination to force someone to see themselves as property. I mean in some cultures you beat it into them so they accept out of fear, but here they freely choose to believe it. That's even worse...
You will be assimilated...bunghole!
User avatar
Kitsune
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3412
Joined: 2003-04-05 10:52pm
Location: Foxes Den
Contact:

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Kitsune »

You know, virtually all of the women of the early US Suffrage movement were Republicans
What the hell happened?
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Kitsune wrote:You know, virtually all of the women of the early US Suffrage movement were Republicans
What the hell happened?
The schism of the democratic party, followed by absorption of the dixiecrats into the GOP, and the subsequent adoption of the "Southern Strategy"
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
Kitsune
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3412
Joined: 2003-04-05 10:52pm
Location: Foxes Den
Contact:

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Kitsune »

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Kitsune wrote:You know, virtually all of the women of the early US Suffrage movement were Republicans
What the hell happened?
The schism of the democratic party, followed by absorption of the dixiecrats into the GOP, and the subsequent adoption of the "Southern Strategy"
I actually know all that. . . .Just my own exasperation
One of my favorite speakers was also a Republican.
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
User avatar
Lagmonster
Master Control Program
Master Control Program
Posts: 7719
Joined: 2002-07-04 09:53am
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Lagmonster »

I wouldn't call them gender-traitors, inasmuch as they probably firmly believe they're acting in people's best interests. If your upbringing included strongly-defined gender roles *and* you had a happy, comfortable and successful childhood, I bet you very well could assume that the first leads directly to the other. Or if you were strongly religious, and thus had a firm conviction that your beliefs had supernatural support.
User avatar
Borgholio
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6297
Joined: 2010-09-03 09:31pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Borgholio »

Lagmonster wrote:I wouldn't call them gender-traitors, inasmuch as they probably firmly believe they're acting in people's best interests. If your upbringing included strongly-defined gender roles *and* you had a happy, comfortable and successful childhood, I bet you very well could assume that the first leads directly to the other. Or if you were strongly religious, and thus had a firm conviction that your beliefs had supernatural support.
Good point. If they've been stuck in the rut their entire lives they'd never know how much freedom they'd have if they climbed out of it.
You will be assimilated...bunghole!
User avatar
Alferd Packer
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3681
Joined: 2002-07-19 09:22pm
Location: Slumgullion Pass
Contact:

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Alferd Packer »

Borgholio wrote:
Lagmonster wrote:I wouldn't call them gender-traitors, inasmuch as they probably firmly believe they're acting in people's best interests. If your upbringing included strongly-defined gender roles *and* you had a happy, comfortable and successful childhood, I bet you very well could assume that the first leads directly to the other. Or if you were strongly religious, and thus had a firm conviction that your beliefs had supernatural support.
Good point. If they've been stuck in the rut their entire lives they'd never know how much freedom they'd have if they climbed out of it.
It's a fear of responsibility, too. Or rather, a conscious decision to relinquish autonomy for security. There is, after all, a certain infantile appeal and comfort in the notion that you will be taken care of throughout your life, and all you have to do is consent to being cared for. Having to make one's way in the world is difficult, and it is the price you pay for autonomy of action. Some people just don't want that.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--that principle is contempt prior to investigation." -Herbert Spencer

"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." - Schiller, Die Jungfrau von Orleans, III vi.
Block
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2333
Joined: 2007-08-06 02:36pm

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Block »

To be fair, when you do an ANOVA (if I remember my stats classes right) analysis of wages, the gender gap almost disappears, according to the BLS. Basically, if you go by job title/responsibility, equal qualifications (academic and experience wise), same company, etc. the pay gap is about 4 cents that's unexplainable by anything other than discrimination. Still sucks, but nowhere near the same problem. The issue that should be talked about is equality of opportunity, which is the reason the 77 cents on the dollar disparity within the industry exists. That 77 cents is basically when you average all female accountants, bookkeepers, etc. and compare it to all the males in that field, ignoring the fact that your tossing in a lot of CEOs which are almost exclusively male.
User avatar
PainRack
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7440
Joined: 2002-07-07 03:03am
Location: Singapura

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by PainRack »

Also, a lot of the inequality in pay emerges from differences in pay for occupations.

If most females work in occupations like nursing, teachers and etc with lower pay than engineers, then that results.


The problem comes more in occupations like finance, when female bankers tend to have lower pay due to disruptions for pregnancies and etc....... And frankly, one CAN see the corporation point of view. Just not like it.
Let him land on any Lyran world to taste firsthand the wrath of peace loving people thwarted by the myopic greed of a few miserly old farts- Katrina Steiner
User avatar
General Zod
Never Shuts Up
Posts: 29205
Joined: 2003-11-18 03:08pm
Location: The Clearance Rack
Contact:

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by General Zod »

PainRack wrote:Also, a lot of the inequality in pay emerges from differences in pay for occupations.

If most females work in occupations like nursing, teachers and etc with lower pay than engineers, then that results.


The problem comes more in occupations like finance, when female bankers tend to have lower pay due to disruptions for pregnancies and etc....... And frankly, one CAN see the corporation point of view. Just not like it.
Except that's not what people are talking about when they talk about the gender gap in pay equality. Women are frequently paid less within the same field and even within the same company for the same job men do.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."

Image

ImageImage
User avatar
Jub
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4068
Joined: 2012-08-06 07:58pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Jub »

General Zod wrote:Except that's not what people are talking about when they talk about the gender gap in pay equality. Women are frequently paid less within the same field and even within the same company for the same job men do.
Do you have stats for that Zod? It's oft repeated, but studies I see say that pay is close to equal for the same roles and I can see a wage reduction due to the issue of pregnancy and time off to care for a newborn.
User avatar
General Zod
Never Shuts Up
Posts: 29205
Joined: 2003-11-18 03:08pm
Location: The Clearance Rack
Contact:

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by General Zod »

Jub wrote:
General Zod wrote:Except that's not what people are talking about when they talk about the gender gap in pay equality. Women are frequently paid less within the same field and even within the same company for the same job men do.
Do you have stats for that Zod? It's oft repeated, but studies I see say that pay is close to equal for the same roles and I can see a wage reduction due to the issue of pregnancy and time off to care for a newborn.
They're all over the internet, but here's one. http://content.time.com/time/nation/art ... 85,00.html
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."

Image

ImageImage
User avatar
Jub
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4068
Joined: 2012-08-06 07:58pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Jub »

General Zod wrote:
Jub wrote:
General Zod wrote:Except that's not what people are talking about when they talk about the gender gap in pay equality. Women are frequently paid less within the same field and even within the same company for the same job men do.
Do you have stats for that Zod? It's oft repeated, but studies I see say that pay is close to equal for the same roles and I can see a wage reduction due to the issue of pregnancy and time off to care for a newborn.
They're all over the internet, but here's one. http://content.time.com/time/nation/art ... 85,00.html
It's a 9% once you account for industry and union status. I see that as fair when the average woman will have two children and spend at least a year not working and likely a few more than that besides working reduced hours. Plus women are less likely to take risky but, relatively, high paying jobs like being a roughneck, logging, or mining. Plus, not that it matters, but women aren't as strong as men thus making them less likely to take certain jobs.

Plus, many male dominated fields aren't unfriendly to women at all, they just don't seem to gravitate to them. I have first hand experience that computer science treated female students equally to male ones and I never felt having a female partner hurt me when I was paired up with them for projects.
User avatar
Kitsune
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3412
Joined: 2003-04-05 10:52pm
Location: Foxes Den
Contact:

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Kitsune »

The article seems to indicate that best case is 9% and looks like they already factored in such things as maternity.
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Thanas »

In any case, women who decide to rear children should not be penalized for that by earning less pay. We need those children, they represent a significant investment in the future of society that is not taken into account enough by such things like taxes, retirement plans or the workplace.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Bedlam
Jedi Master
Posts: 1386
Joined: 2006-09-23 11:12am
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Bedlam »

Thanas wrote:In any case, women who decide to rear children should not be penalized for that by earning less pay. We need those children, they represent a significant investment in the future of society that is not taken into account enough by such things like taxes, retirement plans or the workplace.
Interesting point of view, but should it be the responsibility of the employer to pay for that? Society as a whole does need the future generations (and the company does as part of the society does benefit) but shouldn't the country pay for that in some way? If so how would it be organised.

From the companies point of view you have two employees one whose worked for 20 of the last 20 years, the other worked 18 of those years and raised children for the other 2. From the companies point of view it had to arrange cover for those two years, pay for training, etc. Should it have to pay the same to both employees on the grounds that society benefited from the child rearing?
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Thanas »

In my opinion, yes. The companies need future customers, so obviously they profit as well. Obviously,when it comes to promotions this would not apply, but when it comes to pay for the same positions? Definitely.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
madd0ct0r
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6259
Joined: 2008-03-14 07:47am

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by madd0ct0r »

hah, you assume the company expects to be around that long. Taking the long view works, but only if you don't get eaten tommorrow.
"Aid, trade, green technology and peace." - Hans Rosling.
"Welcome to SDN, where we can't see the forest because walking into trees repeatedly feels good, bro." - Mr Coffee
User avatar
Jub
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4068
Joined: 2012-08-06 07:58pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Jub »

Thanas wrote:In my opinion, yes. The companies need future customers, so obviously they profit as well. Obviously,when it comes to promotions this would not apply, but when it comes to pay for the same positions? Definitely.
I see it as the states responsibility to keep these women even with men. Companies should be free only to look at how useful a person is to their company; if they deem pregnancy, or the possibility there of, as detrimental they have every right to pay. The government can step in to bridge the gap.
User avatar
Vehrec
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2204
Joined: 2006-04-22 12:29pm
Location: The Ohio State University
Contact:

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Vehrec »

You know I find it fascinating how things like cooking, fashion, and nursing are all considereed 'feminine' and 'lesser' when compared to masculine occupations.

But at the same time, these industries are utterly dominated by men. I mean, the restaurant industry's chefs are what, 90% or more male? Dunno what the proportion of designers and CEOs in the Paris fashion houses is, but I bet it skews male. Even in the fields that are supposed to be theirs, women play second fiddle.
ImageCommander of the MFS Darwinian Selection Method (sexual)
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

It's a 9% once you account for industry and union status. I see that as fair when the average woman will have two children and spend at least a year not working and likely a few more than that besides working reduced hours.
You are a real shitstain aren't you, Jub?

The whole point of maternity leave is to not penalize women for having children, and even given that, why the fuck are women disproportionately responsible for child care such that they are the ones taking parental leave, and working shorter hours every time they spawn?
Plus women are less likely to take risky but, relatively, high paying jobs like being a roughneck, logging, or mining. Plus, not that it matters, but women aren't as strong as men thus making them less likely to take certain jobs.
Taken into account. Women even make less in female dominated professions, such as secretarial work(83.4%, controlling for qualification and experience).

Then there is when sex changes happen. This is the most damning. FTM transexuals earn statistically the same as cismen. MTF transexuals see their wages in the same jobs drop by 30% to be less than those of ciswomen. It is the perfect control. The next best thing to a manipulative experiment, and you dont get to bring motherhood in.
Plus, many male dominated fields aren't unfriendly to women at all, they just don't seem to gravitate to them. I have first hand experience that computer science treated female students equally to male ones and I never felt having a female partner hurt me when I was paired up with them for projects.]/quote]

Yet, they make less.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
Jub
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4068
Joined: 2012-08-06 07:58pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by Jub »

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
It's a 9% once you account for industry and union status. I see that as fair when the average woman will have two children and spend at least a year not working and likely a few more than that besides working reduced hours.
You are a real shitstain aren't you, Jub?

The whole point of maternity leave is to not penalize women for having children, and even given that, why the fuck are women disproportionately responsible for child care such that they are the ones taking parental leave, and working shorter hours every time they spawn?
How is that a factor a company should care about? That's something I feel that governments should step in to cover when it happens. Companies should be free to hire the best fit for their needs.
Plus women are less likely to take risky but, relatively, high paying jobs like being a roughneck, logging, or mining. Plus, not that it matters, but women aren't as strong as men thus making them less likely to take certain jobs.
Taken into account. Women even make less in female dominated professions, such as secretarial work(83.4%, controlling for qualification and experience)
Again, there's the maternity issue. There is also the issue that, rightly or wrongly, some companies also expect less of women at the height of their cycle.
Then there is when sex changes happen. This is the most damning. FTM transexuals earn statistically the same as cismen. MTF transexuals see their wages in the same jobs drop by 30% to be less than those of ciswomen. It is the perfect control. The next best thing to a manipulative experiment, and you dont get to bring motherhood in.


FtM transitions tend to be harder to spot outside of the genitals. Facial hair, muscle mass, and a deeper voice are all part of hormone treatment for them. Thus they aren't as likely to be stuck with the 'eww transsexuals are icky' baggage that many MtF people are stuck with. The fact of the matter is, that I've and am in current contact with several MtF transsexuals and none of them could fool me into thinking they were born as women. That's not a knock on them either, it's just a hard transition.
Plus, many male dominated fields aren't unfriendly to women at all, they just don't seem to gravitate to them. I have first hand experience that computer science treated female students equally to male ones and I never felt having a female partner hurt me when I was paired up with them for projects.]/quote]

Yet, they make less.
Maternity, periods, and the fact that I bet women don't press as hard for raises are all factors.
User avatar
General Zod
Never Shuts Up
Posts: 29205
Joined: 2003-11-18 03:08pm
Location: The Clearance Rack
Contact:

Re: Well paid women can't find good husbands

Post by General Zod »

Do companies care about attracting and keeping talented women? Then they need to offer incentives that make them want to work for them and not the competition. It's simple math here. A company that offers benefits to women like not penalizing them for getting pregnant will attract more talented female employees than their competitors that don't, and more women will want to spend money with them in return.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."

Image

ImageImage
Post Reply