Oklahoma governor signs ban on minimum wage increases

[Kitsune]

I have to be honest here. . . .I have no idea why the electorate would allow people like this to stay in office
With games like this, all of the Republican politicians in the state should be given the boot.

http://newsok.com/article/3955336?fb_ac ... g.comments

Gov. Mary Fallin signs minimum wage hike ban in Oklahoma
Oklahoman Published: April 14, 2014

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Cities in Oklahoma are prohibited from establishing mandatory minimum wage or vacation and sick-day requirements under a bill that has been signed into law by Gov. Mary Fallin.

Fallin signed the bill Monday that supporters say would prevent a hodgepodge of minimum wages in different parts of the state that could potentially harm the business community.

Opponents say those decisions should be left up to individual communities. They complain the bill specifically targets Oklahoma City, where an initiative is underway to a establish a citywide minimum wage higher than the current federal minimum wage.

Fallin signed three other bills Monday dealing with tax credits for banking institutions, public investments, and membership of the Alarm and Locksmith Industry Committee.

[Guardsman Bass]

Florida passed something similar on paid sick leave, in order to block some of their cities from passing laws requiring it (you can thank Disney for that one). This is probably the most extreme one that I've seen so far, though, in terms of what it bans cities from doing. And of course, it came with handouts for the banking business and "alarm and locksmith" businesses.

Basically, big cities in red states are almost always more progressive and liberal than the surrounding, heavily Republican states, so they often try to pass initiatives that the state overall won't pass (such as better minimum wages, paid sick leave, and so forth). Of course, being Republican-dominated states, big business then goes and whines to the state legislature about it, at which point they pass state-level bans on it.

[K. A. Pital]

Another reminder on why I decided against the US when considering where to emigrate. That is not normal.

[Melchior]

I wonder which kind of business finds it more lucrative to encourage sick workers to avoid taking leave and work with reduced capabilities while infecting their colleagues; surely even republican managers must see the problem there, do they force people to take unpaid leave?

[Grumman]

Another reminder on why I decided against the US when considering where to emigrate. That is not normal.

It's not? The United States appears to be an exception in having a city level minimum wage - for example, Canada's is at the state level, and Australia, France and New Zealand are at the national level.

[Zaune]

I wonder which kind of business finds it more lucrative to encourage sick workers to avoid taking leave and work with reduced capabilities while infecting their colleagues; surely even republican managers must see the problem there, do they force people to take unpaid leave?

Not really. Outside of a small and steadily decreasing number of skilled professions, the economy is such that if one of your employers quits or gets fired or puts a bullet through their head, you'll have a hundred applications for the newly open position by the next day; there's a strong incentive to simply squeeze every last drop of productivity out of them and then toss them aside like so many empty printer cartridges when they burn out.

[K. A. Pital]

Why ban cities from making their own minimum wage laws or adjusting these figures? Some nations have by-sector or territorial minimum wages instead of nationwide; it's not exactly something to be feared.

[Highlord Laan]

Republicans fucking disgust me, but that's been the standard for the past twenty years. With shit like this taking hold, I only hope I live long enough to see it all explode.

[Napoleon the Clown]

I wonder which kind of business finds it more lucrative to encourage sick workers to avoid taking leave and work with reduced capabilities while infecting their colleagues; surely even republican managers must see the problem there, do they force people to take unpaid leave?

I've gotta wonder about what places you've worked to have any faith in a company to make decisions that are good in the long run. You must be the luckiest person in the world to not have experienced a business being run in a way that's doing more harm than good.

It isn't a question of lucrative, they just think that if employs can take time off for being sick people will abuse it and it will cut into profits. I've got enough experience to tell you that most companies are run less adeptly than the US federal government, which is infamous for being horrifically inefficient and slow.

[Welf]

American society has serious trust issues.

[Simon_Jester]

Another reminder on why I decided against the US when considering where to emigrate. That is not normal.

It can be avoided by choosing the right province to live in, but yes. Especially since these state governments, which routinely bar local subdivisions from passing "liberal" laws in the interests of uniformity, will scream about local rights and privileges if the federal government passes such laws and enforces them upon the states.

Why ban cities from making their own minimum wage laws or adjusting these figures? Some nations have by-sector or territorial minimum wages instead of nationwide; it's not exactly something to be feared.

Because these provincial governments really are basically under the direct control of corporate interests that desire cheap labor. And due to the way local politics works they do not fear the consequences of revealing this to observers like you and I.

I wonder which kind of business finds it more lucrative to encourage sick workers to avoid taking leave and work with reduced capabilities while infecting their colleagues; surely even republican managers must see the problem there, do they force people to take unpaid leave?

I've gotta wonder about what places you've worked to have any faith in a company to make decisions that are good in the long run. You must be the luckiest person in the world to not have experienced a business being run in a way that's doing more harm than good.

It isn't a question of lucrative, they just think that if employs can take time off for being sick people will abuse it and it will cut into profits. I've got enough experience to tell you that most companies are run less adeptly than the US federal government, which is infamous for being horrifically inefficient and slow.

Honestly, the problem here is that very few people can think in terms of "enlightened self-interest" unless they are forced to do so by a legal code that penalizes you for acting otherwise. Once the law creates the proper incentives, you get enlightened thinking: people who understand that you have to give something to get something, because the law makes cheating risky. They may even be able to generalize, once that is in place- say, letting an employee take a day off due to a stressful personal situation by analogy to sick leave.

But if you do not require people to develop that part of their brain, if you bombard them with propaganda saying that poor people are all lazy cheats who abuse their sick leave, if you tell them that they can and should fire whomever they please whenever they please on a whim, if there is no accountability or responsibility...

Yes, they wind up making very stupid decisions about how to manage labor.

[Melchior]

You must be the luckiest person in the world to not have experienced a business being run in a way that's doing more harm than good.

I live in Europe, where, despite the fact that that the average quality of managers probably is the same or worse, it's generally impossible for this specific mistake to happen due to different regulations.

Yes, they wind up making very stupid decisions about how to manage labor.

I'm a bit surprised by this specific instance of that mentality because "having your entire assembly line coughing and sneezing, disrupting production" isn't some kind of farfetched scenario or dismissible externality - it happens regularly if you let sick workers in.

[Highlord Laan]

It's because the job market and economy are exactly where corporations want it right now. There's far fewer jobs than there are people, prices are up and people are desperate. Too sick to work? Than fuck you, you're fired. Later that day, one of the hundreds of people begging for any work at all are in your former slot.

If you disagree on this being right and proper, than you are a filthy liberal, communist nazi terrorist lover and hate 'murrica. Why do you hate murrica? I bet if you manned up and were a proper murrican you'd put your job before anything and everything. But you're a pussy, sick-leave wanting liberal communist nazi, that thinks you deserve good pay, so you're getting what you deserve. Commie.

[Melchior]

It's because the job market and economy are exactly where corporations want it right now. There's far fewer jobs than there are people, prices are up and people are desperate. Too sick to work? Than fuck you, you're fired. Later that day, one of the hundreds of people begging for any work at all are in your former slot.

This is not realistic except for jobs so unqualified that they're already on the verge of being performed by robots. Most positions, even humble ones, require a training / learning period (often informal, but substantial) before a worker is up to par, so by constantly replacing them productivity would suffer.

[Terralthra]

It's because the job market and economy are exactly where corporations want it right now. There's far fewer jobs than there are people, prices are up and people are desperate. Too sick to work? Than fuck you, you're fired. Later that day, one of the hundreds of people begging for any work at all are in your former slot.

This is not realistic except for jobs so unqualified that they're already on the verge of being performed by robots. Most positions, even humble ones, require a training / learning period (often informal, but substantial) before a worker is up to par, so by constantly replacing them productivity would suffer.

Coincidentally, these are exactly the jobs typically covered by laws establishing minimum wages and sick day policies.

[Kitsune]

On sick days. . . .
I was speaking to a girl working at a check out at a grocery store telling me that if you take a day off because you are sick (without pay), you get written up unless you have a note from a doctor.
According to what I understand, when you are sick, the best way to keep it from spreading is to basically stay home.
Now, a store clerk is exposed to both the other staff and customers.
Effectively, the management is promoting getting the public sick

[Patroklos]

That's how it works in the military. You are not charged leave or lose pay, but you can't just call in sick. You show up to the local medical clinic and have to be put on "sick in quarters." Mind you many local medical clinics are actually at your workplace, such as your ship if you are in the Navy.

[Block]

That's how it works in the military. You are not charged leave or lose pay, but you can't just call in sick. You show up to the local medical clinic and have to be put on "sick in quarters." Mind you many local medical clinics are actually at your workplace, such as your ship if you are in the Navy.

Yeah, but they're also paying for the medical treatment/consultation. One thing about jobs like this is that a lot of these people can't really afford doctor's visits, especially for something that's pretty trivial like a bad cold.

[Wicked Pilot]

Why ban cities from making their own minimum wage laws or adjusting these figures?

Well you see, there are these people out there we commonly refer to as 'assholes', and these 'assholes' tend to be and vote Republican. Chances are good, the governor is in fact an 'asshole', and so are the people who voted for him. (ie fellow 'assholes')

[Wicked Pilot]

Voted for *her*. Sorry, flying that male privilege flag there a little.

[Kitsune]

That's how it works in the military. You are not charged leave or lose pay, but you can't just call in sick. You show up to the local medical clinic and have to be put on "sick in quarters." Mind you many local medical clinics are actually at your workplace, such as your ship if you are in the Navy.

Yeah, but they're also paying for the medical treatment/consultation. One thing about jobs like this is that a lot of these people can't really afford doctor's visits, especially for something that's pretty trivial like a bad cold.

Added to this. . . .The person is already losing money just for taking the day off and now they have to pay to see a doctor.
In the military, you are still getting you pay check for showing up to the doctor and you don't have to pay to see the doctor either.

BTW: Oklahoma is one of the states that did not approve the medicaid extension.

[Simon_Jester]

On sick days. . . .
I was speaking to a girl working at a check out at a grocery store telling me that if you take a day off because you are sick (without pay), you get written up unless you have a note from a doctor.
According to what I understand, when you are sick, the best way to keep it from spreading is to basically stay home.
Now, a store clerk is exposed to both the other staff and customers.
Effectively, the management is promoting getting the public sick

Yes. Yes, they are- because no one holds them accountable for creating a public health hazard.

If you want people to display enlightened self-interest, you have to make sure that they are held accountable for acting in ways that indirectly harm others- including employees and customers. Having successfully lobbied for non-accountability in the red states, businessmen are under no pressure to show enlightened self-interest. As a result, a lot of them don't.

[Kitsune]

With employee protection regulations, would the wealthy business owners of United Kingdom, Netherlands, Germany, France, etc agree with their American counterparts or do they see helping employees as part of business?

[PainRack]

I wonder which kind of business finds it more lucrative to encourage sick workers to avoid taking leave and work with reduced capabilities while infecting their colleagues; surely even republican managers must see the problem there, do they force people to take unpaid leave?

I don't know about big business, but my nurse manager pulled that stunt on us way too often. It got to a level that I got upset and outright contradicted her when she talked about conjunctivitis, personal care and responsibility in an attempt to dissuade us from taking sick leave and I told her outright that sick staff MUST take sick leave for that disease, no matter what.


It was quite absurd because she pulled that stunt RIGHT after 'warning' us of a new Ministry of Manpower initative, allowing for online reporting of abuses and the submission of video/phone recordings of such conversations(she believed it was a potential source for patients to submit reports to the MOM, making me laugh inwards.)
I now routinely counsel staff that sick leave IS their entitlement. You can play along and swap off days or leave IF you want to, but you don't have to entertain any requests along that lines.


Sick leave reflects poorly on her productivity records as well as personal staff grooming and is a factor when consideration for promotion or courses so, that's why she does it.... out of the goodness of her heart and yes, I honestly do believe that she believe encouraging staff not to take 'unnecessary' sick leave is for our own good.............


Chalk it up to some old protestant work ethic indoctrination I guess........

[PainRack]

On sick days. . . .
I was speaking to a girl working at a check out at a grocery store telling me that if you take a day off because you are sick (without pay), you get written up unless you have a note from a doctor.
According to what I understand, when you are sick, the best way to keep it from spreading is to basically stay home.
Now, a store clerk is exposed to both the other staff and customers.
Effectively, the management is promoting getting the public sick

That's honestly the norm here........ which gets quite absurd because we're the only society in SEA that enforces such a work culture.


You can't call in sick unless you have a medical certificate, it proved to be a culture shock for some of the foreign staff working here.