General Police Abuse Thread

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, SCRawl, Thanas, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
Gandalf
SD.net White Wizard
Posts: 14476
Joined: 2002-09-16 11:13pm
Location: A video store in Sydney, Australia

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Gandalf » 2018-08-21 07:26pm

On the other hand, it's a great way of showing how the huge problem the US has with police abuses is seeping into more mainstream popular culture. It's no longer the domain of artists like Ice T or NWA.

So I'm all for the article here.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin

User avatar
Rogue 9
Scrapping TIEs since 1997
Posts: 17762
Joined: 2003-11-12 01:10pm
Location: Classified
Contact:

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Rogue 9 » 2018-08-22 10:23pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
2018-08-21 06:37pm
No offense Rogue and I'm sure you mean well but is this thread really an appropriate place for an onion article?

This thread contains stories of unbelievable abuses and murders so it just seems out of place, you know?
Apart from breaking the tension a bit, Gandalf's point is what I was going for. I'm sorry if it bothers you.
It's Rogue, not Rouge!

HAB | KotL | VRWC/ELC/CDA | TRotR | The Anti-Confederate | Sluggite | Gamer | Blogger | Staff Reporter | Student | Musician

User avatar
Kamakazie Sith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7498
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Kamakazie Sith » 2018-08-25 07:02am

Rogue 9 wrote:
2018-08-22 10:23pm
Apart from breaking the tension a bit, Gandalf's point is what I was going for. I'm sorry if it bothers you.
No need for an apology. You did not bother me or offend me but thank you for the consideration.

I thought it was pretty clear I was talking about the topic of the thread which is not satirical articles on police abuses and not my personal feelings. However, your explanation or rather Gandalf makes sense.
Milites Astrum Exterminans

User avatar
TheFeniX
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4632
Joined: 2003-06-26 04:24pm
Location: Texas

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by TheFeniX » 2018-09-07 12:03pm

Normal Person:
1. Walk into apartment that isn't yours.
2. Shoot person living there.
3. Go to jail pending investigation.

American LEO:
1. Walk into apartment the isn't yours.
2. Shoot person living there.
3. Get placed on "administrative leave" pending investigation.

American citizens lucky enough not to be gunned down in own home:
1. Listen to police talk about how they AREN'T above the law.

EDIT: fucking seriously, what right do the police have to not release the name of an off-duty cop who murdered a man in his own home?/EDIT

How being a cop works:
DALLAS, Texas (KTRK) --
A Dallas police officer returning home from work shot and killed a neighbor after she said she mistook his apartment for her own, police said Friday.

The officer called dispatch to report that she had shot the man Thursday night, police said. She told responding officers that she believed the victim's apartment was her own when she entered it.

The responding officers administered first aid to the victim, whom the Dallas County medical examiner's office identified as 26-year-old Botham Jean. He was taken to a hospital and pronounced dead.

Police haven't released the name of the officer, who wasn't injured. She will be placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation, police said.

Authorities haven't said how the officer got into Jean's home, or whether his door was open or unlocked.

At a Friday morning news conference, Sgt. Warren Mitchell acknowledged there are many questions about what happened that he couldn't answer.

"We still have a lot to do in this investigation. So there's a lot of information I understand you guys want but this is all we can give you at this time," Mitchell said.

When asked if anyone else had witnessed the shooting, Warren replied, "We have not spoken to anyone else at this time."

Police said they are conducting a joint investigation with the Dallas County district attorney's office.

User avatar
Kamakazie Sith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7498
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Kamakazie Sith » 2018-09-08 11:24pm

TheFeniX wrote:
2018-09-07 12:03pm
Normal Person:
1. Walk into apartment that isn't yours.
2. Shoot person living there.
3. Go to jail pending investigation.

American LEO:
1. Walk into apartment the isn't yours.
2. Shoot person living there.
3. Get placed on "administrative leave" pending investigation.
This incident is the most pronounced that I can remember and it shows just how right you are. Had this been any other person they would have been booked into jail and what's crazy to me is so far we haven't heard the standard "afraid for my life" line...though that's probably on its way.
Milites Astrum Exterminans

User avatar
TheFeniX
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4632
Joined: 2003-06-26 04:24pm
Location: Texas

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by TheFeniX » 2018-09-08 11:35pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
2018-09-08 11:24pm
This incident is the most pronounced that I can remember and it shows just how right you are. Had this been any other person they would have been booked into jail and what's crazy to me is so far we haven't heard the standard "afraid for my life" line...though that's probably on its way.
To be fair to Dallas PD: she called it in as an "officer involved shooting." So they treated it as such at first. Within 8 hours or so, the department called it for what it was and issued a warrant for her arrest and went for manslaughter charges. While I still think it's shady they refuse to release the name (I don't feel cops should immediately release names of suspects, but they are MORE THAN WILLING to do so consistently) until the charges are filed, they seem to have been very up-front about the situation, even calling in Texas Rangers.

I'm at the point now to say this isn't so much a case of police abuse, but that Dallas PD got roped into protecting an officer of theirs because the wool was pulled over their eyes.

User avatar
Kamakazie Sith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7498
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Kamakazie Sith » 2018-09-08 11:41pm

TheFeniX wrote:
2018-09-08 11:35pm
To be fair to Dallas PD: she called it in as an "officer involved shooting." So they treated it as such at first. Within 8 hours or so, the department called it for what it was and issued a warrant for her arrest and went for manslaughter charges. While I still think it's shady they refuse to release the name (I don't feel cops should immediately release names of suspects, but they are MORE THAN WILLING to do so consistently) until the charges are filed, they seem to have been very up-front about the situation, even calling in Texas Rangers.

I'm at the point now to say this isn't so much a case of police abuse, but that Dallas PD got roped into protecting an officer of theirs because the wool was pulled over their eyes.
Ah, I didn't know that. That improves my perception of Dallas PD significantly. I was pretty disappointed in them. Also, I agree with you regarding the names of suspects I see it as due process. The names should be with held for all suspects unless there is a public safety issue.
Milites Astrum Exterminans

User avatar
Kamakazie Sith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7498
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Kamakazie Sith » 2018-09-09 12:18am

TheFeniX wrote:
2018-09-08 11:35pm
To be fair to Dallas PD: she called it in as an "officer involved shooting." So they treated it as such at first. Within 8 hours or so, the department called it for what it was and issued a warrant for her arrest and went for manslaughter charges. While I still think it's shady they refuse to release the name (I don't feel cops should immediately release names of suspects, but they are MORE THAN WILLING to do so consistently) until the charges are filed, they seem to have been very up-front about the situation, even calling in Texas Rangers.

I'm at the point now to say this isn't so much a case of police abuse, but that Dallas PD got roped into protecting an officer of theirs because the wool was pulled over their eyes.
There's been an update.

Source


I quoted the below because it is relevant to what we were discussing.
"Our policy is, and I want us to make sure we're as transparent as possible — we wouldn't release any other suspect's name until they are charged," Hall said.
Milites Astrum Exterminans

User avatar
Rogue 9
Scrapping TIEs since 1997
Posts: 17762
Joined: 2003-11-12 01:10pm
Location: Classified
Contact:

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Rogue 9 » 2018-09-09 11:40am

NPR reported yesterday that the manslaughter charges are on hold by request of the Texas Rangers until they finish their investigation. I don't know if that's still the case; I heard it on the radio in the car and haven't had time to follow up.
It's Rogue, not Rouge!

HAB | KotL | VRWC/ELC/CDA | TRotR | The Anti-Confederate | Sluggite | Gamer | Blogger | Staff Reporter | Student | Musician

User avatar
Kamakazie Sith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7498
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Kamakazie Sith » 2018-09-10 02:20pm

She was booked on manslaughter charges and is now out on a $300,000 bail.
Milites Astrum Exterminans

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15059
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-09-17 02:32am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
2018-09-10 02:20pm
She was booked on manslaughter charges and is now out on a $300,000 bail.
Where did she get three hundred thousand in bail money? I doubt most cops can afford that from their personal savings. Right-wing group crowdsourced funds to get her out or something?
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.

Ralin
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2379
Joined: 2008-08-28 04:23am

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Ralin » 2018-09-17 02:50am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-09-17 02:32am
Where did she get three hundred thousand in bail money? I doubt most cops can afford that from their personal savings. Right-wing group crowdsourced funds to get her out or something?
More likely she was released on bond and either KS or his source was being imprecise with their wording.

User avatar
TheFeniX
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4632
Joined: 2003-06-26 04:24pm
Location: Texas

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by TheFeniX » 2018-09-17 11:50am

Dallas PD got a warrant to search the victims apartment. The article itself is about other things, but the interview with the family lawyer states (paraphrasing): "The warrant was specific to search the apartment for drug paraphernalia." They found ~10mg of marijuana. Information of which they were willing to release quickly to the public which is hard to see any something besides a smear campaign against the deceased victim.

Yet toxicology on both the victim and the shooter has yet to be completed/released which, sorry it doesn't take that long if you rush it, I don't THINK they should just release all this info to the public, but goddamn if they're going to release every little bit they can: Gimme gimme!

The Texas Rangers have since taken over the investigation.

User avatar
Kamakazie Sith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7498
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Kamakazie Sith » 2018-09-17 02:05pm

TheFeniX wrote:
2018-09-17 11:50am
Dallas PD got a warrant to search the victims apartment. The article itself is about other things, but the interview with the family lawyer states (paraphrasing): "The warrant was specific to search the apartment for drug paraphernalia." They found ~10mg of marijuana. Information of which they were willing to release quickly to the public which is hard to see any something besides a smear campaign against the deceased victim.

Yet toxicology on both the victim and the shooter has yet to be completed/released which, sorry it doesn't take that long if you rush it, I don't THINK they should just release all this info to the public, but goddamn if they're going to release every little bit they can: Gimme gimme!

The Texas Rangers have since taken over the investigation.
The victims apartment is the crime scene and obtaining a warrant is matter of procedure when investigating major crimes in residences. The marijuana was on the kitchen counter and likely seen in plain view during the initial response. It's actually good investigative policy for them to request a search for further contraband because now we know that Botham Jean wasn't some hardcore drug dealer which if they had not done so a defense attorney could use to suggest doubt to a jury. The amount he had can only be resolved with a citation in Dallas (not the rest of Texas).

As for who released this information. Dallas PD is a possible source and so are those who work at the court house. However, warrants are a matter of public record in Texas unless sealed and at the time this warrant was not sealed. There have been some other warrants issued in this investigation and they have been sealed since. Certain media elements could have a source inside Dallas PD or inside the courts and they love releasing this kind of thing.
Ralin wrote:
2018-09-17 02:50am
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-09-17 02:32am
Where did she get three hundred thousand in bail money? I doubt most cops can afford that from their personal savings. Right-wing group crowdsourced funds to get her out or something?
More likely she was released on bond and either KS or his source was being imprecise with their wording.
It was a bond. Probably my mistake.
Milites Astrum Exterminans

User avatar
TheFeniX
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4632
Joined: 2003-06-26 04:24pm
Location: Texas

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by TheFeniX » 2018-09-17 02:15pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
2018-09-17 02:05pm
The victims apartment is the crime scene and obtaining a warrant is matter of procedure when investigating major crimes in residences. The marijuana was on the kitchen counter and likely seen in plain view during the initial response. It's actually good investigative policy for them to request a search for further contraband because now we know that Botham Jean wasn't some hardcore drug dealer which if they had not done so a defense attorney could use to suggest doubt to a jury. The amount he had can only be resolved with a citation in Dallas (not the rest of Texas).
I thought the same, but the family lawyer is claiming the warrant had specific language to look for "drug paraphernalia." The only reason (I could come up with) they would do this legitimately would be to see if the officer planted drugs at the scene after the fact. But still, that's a long shot.

Why is the "owner" of the home having drugs pertinent to this case? They are (supposedly) already running toxicology. Even if he was drunk, there's nothing against the law about being hammered in your own home, especially when you were shot from 15 feet away.

EDIT: OK, I see your point now. If they did originally see the drugs, that would make more sense. I guess what doesn't make sense is them taking the other stuff. And I think that's bullshit. There's no point in ransacking the personal effects of someone obviously murdered in their own home.

Double edit: though it's also possible if they don't wreck up the place, the cop's lawyer can claim officers didn't do their due diligence.
As for who released this information. Dallas PD is a possible source and so are those who work at the court house. However, warrants are a matter of public record in Texas unless sealed and at the time this warrant was not sealed. There have been some other warrants issued in this investigation and they have been sealed since. Certain media elements could have a source inside Dallas PD or inside the courts and they love releasing this kind of thing.
I feel the results of the warrant should be kept confidential until trial though. I just get annoyed that police/prosecutors are extremely blase' about the "procedure" concerning release of information to the public. Information that slanders <not them> is seemingly ALWAYS available. While anything else is covered under layers of red tape.

Probably because dead civilians don't have a union to back them up. We should all unionize under the "don't murder me in my own place, bro" charter.

User avatar
Kamakazie Sith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7498
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Kamakazie Sith » 2018-09-21 10:29pm

TheFeniX wrote:
2018-09-17 02:15pm
I thought the same, but the family lawyer is claiming the warrant had specific language to look for "drug paraphernalia." The only reason (I could come up with) they would do this legitimately would be to see if the officer planted drugs at the scene after the fact. But still, that's a long shot.

Why is the "owner" of the home having drugs pertinent to this case? They are (supposedly) already running toxicology. Even if he was drunk, there's nothing against the law about being hammered in your own home, especially when you were shot from 15 feet away.

EDIT: OK, I see your point now. If they did originally see the drugs, that would make more sense. I guess what doesn't make sense is them taking the other stuff. And I think that's bullshit. There's no point in ransacking the personal effects of someone obviously murdered in their own home.

Double edit: though it's also possible if they don't wreck up the place, the cop's lawyer can claim officers didn't do their due diligence.
This is a list of the stuff that was taken;
2 fired cartridge casings
1 laptop computer
1 black backpack with police equipment and paperwork
1 insulated lunch box
1 black ballistic vest with "police" markings
10.4 grams of marijuana in ziplock bags
1 metal marijuana grinder
2 RFID keys
2 used packages of medical aid

I'm thinking the laptop, obviously the black backpack, lunch box all belong to Amber Guyger.

Possibly the RFID keys as well. The used medical aid was likely materials left behind by EMS crews.

I feel the results of the warrant should be kept confidential until trial though. I just get annoyed that police/prosecutors are extremely blase' about the "procedure" concerning release of information to the public. Information that slanders <not them> is seemingly ALWAYS available. While anything else is covered under layers of red tape.

Probably because dead civilians don't have a union to back them up. We should all unionize under the "don't murder me in my own place, bro" charter.
I agree on the warrants. If past history and current activity do not matter then I don't see why an officers past disciplinary history matters. Don't get me wrong. I don't think it matters and it should not be released but like I said it seems this is behavior that both sides of this discussion engage in. I mean there's a photo going around of Amber Guyger with her arms around a group of people, one of which is a male that is throwing up some white power signs. Amber Guyger is not but you understand the implication.
Milites Astrum Exterminans

User avatar
Agent Fisher
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 3566
Joined: 2003-04-29 11:56pm
Location: Sac-Town, CA, USA, Earth, Sol, Milky Way, Universe

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Agent Fisher » 2018-09-22 02:53am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
2018-09-21 10:29pm
I mean there's a photo going around of Amber Guyger with her arms around a group of people, one of which is a male that is throwing up some white power signs.

Actual white power signs or the circle game that 4Chan decided to make the main stream media believe is a white power symbol?

User avatar
Kamakazie Sith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7498
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Kamakazie Sith » 2018-09-22 03:35pm

Agent Fisher wrote:
2018-09-22 02:53am
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
2018-09-21 10:29pm
I mean there's a photo going around of Amber Guyger with her arms around a group of people, one of which is a male that is throwing up some white power signs.
Actual white power signs or the circle game that 4Chan decided to make the main stream media believe is a white power symbol?
Well, I have it from a good source that circle game has been adopted by some white power groups as a symbol. I mean take the clothing line FUBU. It was adopted as clothing by the bloods and to them basically means "Fuck U Bloods Up". So, it shouldn't come to anyone surprise that they would take a circle game being represented as a white power symbol and actually make it one. Whether that is the intent of the male in the photograph is unknown but my point is it is irrelevant and is meant to imply that Guyger is a white supremacist.
Milites Astrum Exterminans

User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 19508
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm
Location: Tahalshia Manor

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by LadyTevar » 2018-09-22 06:07pm

....
You guys DO REALIZE the Circle Game has been around since the 1970s, yes? It was all the rage in my Jr. High by 1980, and all the guys played.
Image
Librium Arcana, Where Gamers Play!
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet

User avatar
Kamakazie Sith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7498
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Kamakazie Sith » 2018-09-23 01:15am

LadyTevar wrote:
2018-09-22 06:07pm
....
You guys DO REALIZE the Circle Game has been around since the 1970s, yes? It was all the rage in my Jr. High by 1980, and all the guys played.
Yes, we do. In fact in my previous post I explained what is going on. To reiterate some user on 4chan started the rumor that the circle game was a symbol for white power. At the time this was totally incorrect. However, since 4chan started this rumor actual white power gangs have adopted it because that's what gangs do. They adopt symbols that have other meanings so they can blend in hence the FUBU example.

My overall point is just because you see someone wearing certain clothing or displaying a symbol that alone is not enough to conclude that they belong to a gang.
Milites Astrum Exterminans

Post Reply