General Police Abuse Thread

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Solauren
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Solauren »

Raw Shark wrote: 2021-04-07 10:39am
Solauren wrote: 2021-04-07 08:02am
Ralin wrote: 2021-04-06 05:36pm Exactly what causes of death don't involve the heart and lungs ceasing to function?
Decaptiation might fall into this, if the brain does keep working for a short time afterwards.
Um. How is the functionality of the brain relevant to the heart and lungs working, following decapitation?
The brain could die before the heart and lungs give out, and vice versa.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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Solauren wrote: 2021-04-07 03:58pm
Raw Shark wrote: 2021-04-07 10:39am Um. How is the functionality of the brain relevant to the heart and lungs working, following decapitation?
The brain could die before the heart and lungs give out, and vice versa.
And, in the case of my dad, a stroke to the brain stem that governs automatic functions, such as breathing and pumping blood.
Also, exsanguination, which blood loss means your brain and other organs start shutting down from lack of oxygen and your heart goes into arrhythmia. The brain usually 'dies' before your heart.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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We all know how this song and dace is going to end, anyway.

If anything, I'll find it amusing with the Surprised Pikachu everyone will show when they act all confused and faux-saddened at the explosion that will occur afterwards. I wonder how many precincts will get burned down this time?
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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anyone heard about the new Minneapolis shooting yet?

Female officer mistakes gun for taser and shoots a suspect, suspect expires, now riots round XLVI?
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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And the warrant on said suspect was issued because he didn't show up for a court hearing, the summons for which was sent to the wrong address.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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MKSheppard wrote: 2021-04-12 09:42pm anyone heard about the new Minneapolis shooting yet?

Female officer mistakes gun for taser and shoots a suspect, suspect expires, now riots round XLVI?
"Mistakes" despite being a 25+ year veteran of the force. If we pretend that this was a legitimate mistake she's still guilty of negligent homicide and was attempting to engage in battery, seeing as there was no legitimate reason to tase the dude. They know where he lived. Picking him up at a later point would have been trivial. Best case scenario she wanted to inflict suffering on the guy for a thrill. More realistic case, based on all of US history and her experience as a cop of many years, she knew which weapon she grabbed and was hoping to kill him.

And until the January 6th insurrection sees the seditionists facing proper consequences, I don't want to hear jack shit about "riots" when the majority of people present aren't engaging in destruction of property or theft. It is very standard for bad actors to move in and use protests as cover for their crimes. I'll give you the benefit of assuming you're smart enough to realize this.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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I don't have any official figures, but among the petty hoodlums it is generally accepted as indisputable fact that female cops are more likely to shoot you dead and get away with it. "I felt threatened," plays beautifully when you're 5'2", whether you actually did or had murderous intent all along. It'll probably never get addressed because it sounds sexist as fuck when you say it.

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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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Apparently she drew her sidearm earlier in the scuffle when it looked like lethal force might be needed; and when it wasn't needed never reholstered it; then brainfarted later and went TASER TASER TASER without realising she'd never holstered/swapped from lethal to less than lethal and was still using lethal force.

It's happened to other cops before as well.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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Napoleon the Clown wrote: 2021-04-13 01:55amMore realistic case, based on all of US history and her experience as a cop of many years, she knew which weapon she grabbed and was hoping to kill him.
:lol: :lol: :wanker: :wanker: :wanker: :wanker: :wanker: :lol: :lol:

"I am a white cop. YES, LETS KILL A BLACK MALE SUSPECT IN 2021. NOTHING WILL HAPPEN."

More plausible case: Silly weapons design.

https://www.wired.com/story/how-dumb-de ... macintosh/
Fitts' data showed that during one 22-month period of the war, the Air Force reported an astounding 457 crashes just like the one in which our imaginary pilot hit the runway thinking everything was fine. But the culprit was maddeningly obvious for anyone with the patience to look. Fitts' colleague Alfonse Chapanis did the looking. When he started investigating the airplanes themselves, talking to people about them, sitting in the cockpits, he also didn’t see evidence of poor training. He saw, instead, the impossibility of flying these planes at all. Instead of “pilot error,” he saw what he called, for the first time, “designer error.”

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I think there's a strong case to be made for redesigning less than lethals like TASERS so that they are like Star Trek "dustbuster" phasers, rather than pistol gripped weapons; even at the loss of accuracy.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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MKSheppard wrote: 2021-04-14 07:26pm Apparently she drew her sidearm earlier in the scuffle when it looked like lethal force might be needed; and when it wasn't needed never reholstered it; then brainfarted later and went TASER TASER TASER without realising she'd never holstered/swapped from lethal to less than lethal and was still using lethal force.

It's happened to other cops before as well.
She never realized that she had to disengage the safety before firing? How about the fact that her sidearm weighs a different amount than her taser? Hell, why did she even feel the need to use a taser on somebody for a routine traffic stop?

When soldiers have tighter ROEs than US cops and harsher punishments for fucking up said ROEs I have zero sympathies for police officers.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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MKSheppard wrote: 2021-04-14 07:32pm I think there's a strong case to be made for redesigning less than lethals like TASERS so that they are like Star Trek "dustbuster" phasers, rather than pistol gripped weapons; even at the loss of accuracy.
Yes, this is the big question: How Can You Mistake a Gun for a Taser?
The US-based Axon company, which developed the Taser used by the Brooklyn Center police department involved in this incident, was quoted as saying their weapons were designed to be distinguishable from handguns.

It had "implemented numerous features and training recommendations to reduce the possibility of these incidents occurring" - including making them look and feel different from a firearm.

Distinctive Taser features include that they

are often produced in bright colours
weigh significantly less than police guns
typically have different grips
have no trigger safety mechanism, as most guns do
Police officers are typically trained to keep guns in a holster on their dominant side to avoid confusing it with their Taser, which is kept on the belt on the other side of the body.

The Brooklyn Center police manual says that officers must position Tasers "in a reaction-side holster on the side opposite the duty weapon".
The article in the link has several photos of tasers v/s guns, and how they're carried.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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I feel the need to chime in, as I have carried a firearm and a taser at the same time. Yes, they weight differently, they can come in different colors, and the grips aren't exactly the same as firearms unless it was a M26 Taser that's long since been discontinued. The safety on the taser, you flick it off instinctively in the drawing process, where as the Glock pistol she had did not have an external safety. Trigger safeties which the Axon mentions, they don't have any real impact regarding this situation, just means the pistol won't fire without the trigger being squeezed. That being said, when adrenaline is racing and you are attempting to stop someone, who has an active warrant related to firearm possession and a current charge of aggravated robbery that would show when running the person's information, from jumping into their car and fleeing the scene, I can reasonably conceive of not noticing the difference in weight, as stress and adrenaline do strange things to sensory perceptions, and you aren't looking down to see the color.

When I carried my taser, I kept it on my weak hand side, and in a position that only my left hand could easily draw the taser, so when stress and adrenaline would be pounding through my veins, when my brain decided to draw taser, my firearm hand would have no part in the situation. I've never liked the policy of allowing officers to wear the taser so that the strong hand is the hand that draws the taser. I always felt that it was risky due to how the brain and body would behave when under high stress situations, with the body responding to muscle memory.

Still, she failed, either by fault completely of her own, or partially a failure of training and tactics via the department. How did the department train their officers in use of the taser? How much training did they have with using a taser under stress vs using a pistol under stress?

All that said, I'm not say this was a justified death. This was a tragic, terrible accident based on the body cam video and audio. She is responsible for what she does on duty, responsible for every round that leaves her firearm. She'll answer for that, and 2nd Degree Manslaughter charge seems to me to be an appropriate charge.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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Agent Fisher wrote: 2021-04-14 11:13pm I feel the need to chime in, as I have carried a firearm and a taser at the same time. Yes, they weight differently, they can come in different colors, and the grips aren't exactly the same as firearms unless it was a M26 Taser that's long since been discontinued. The safety on the taser, you flick it off instinctively in the drawing process, where as the Glock pistol she had did not have an external safety. Trigger safeties which the Axon mentions, they don't have any real impact regarding this situation, just means the pistol won't fire without the trigger being squeezed. That being said, when adrenaline is racing and you are attempting to stop someone, who has an active warrant related to firearm possession and a current charge of aggravated robbery that would show when running the person's information, from jumping into their car and fleeing the scene, I can reasonably conceive of not noticing the difference in weight, as stress and adrenaline do strange things to sensory perceptions, and you aren't looking down to see the color.
If you feel that much in danger why not call for backup or run the perp's address and catch them later? This is a failure in the process even before the shooting ever started.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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Jub wrote: 2021-04-14 11:16pm If you feel that much in danger why not call for backup or run the perp's address and catch them later? This is a failure in the process even before the shooting ever started.
There were three officers already on scene, which from the video, appeared to be the initial officer who was the one that stopped Mister Wright, and Officer Potter with her trainee officer. They had him out of the vehicle and were beginning to place him in handcuffs, telling him he had a warrant when he broke free from their grasp and jumped into the vehicle, which is when she appeared to be intending to tase him before he could either drive off and potentially drag an officer, or go for a concealed firearm.

Yes, it may have been safer to pull back and allow him to flee at that time, and try and track him down later. But that is a question of policy that needs to be addressed at a far higher level than a police officer on a traffic stop.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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Agent Fisher wrote: 2021-04-14 11:24pmThere were three officers already on scene, which from the video, appeared to be the initial officer who was the one that stopped Mister Wright, and Officer Potter with her trainee officer. They had him out of the vehicle and were beginning to place him in handcuffs, telling him he had a warrant when he broke free from their grasp and jumped into the vehicle, which is when she appeared to be intending to tase him before he could either drive off and potentially drag an officer, or go for a concealed firearm.
That sounds like the police did a bad job of restraining him which is another point of failure. If you're so worried that a suspect might flee or go for a weapon it behooves you to restrain them properly. Barring that, don't force them into a fight or flight situation to begin with. The US policing system wouldn't have so many stops go wrong if there wasn't such an adversarial relationship between them and many of the communities they 'serve'.

Even beyond all of this, tasering a man in the back for trying to flee a situation which he rightly fears isn't a good look.
Yes, it may have been safer to pull back and allow him to flee at that time, and try and track him down later. But that is a question of policy that needs to be addressed at a far higher level than a police officer on a traffic stop.
I expect officers to be trained to prioritize de-escalation and community safety above all else. Making the arrest and securing the evidence are far less important than building community trust and ensuring as few deaths as possible.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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Jub wrote: 2021-04-14 11:31pmThat sounds like the police did a bad job of restraining him which is another point of failure. If you're so worried that a suspect might flee or go for a weapon it behooves you to restrain them properly.
I suggest watching the bodycam if it would not be too mentally distressing for you, which I say not as any sort of jab towards you. It is a video of someone being shot, after all, it is mentally distressing to watch.

They were in the process of doing so. They were placing him in cuffs, telling him that he had a warrant. They hadn't thrown him to the ground or tried to pin him to the vehicle while doing so. He was standing, having placed his hands behind his back and they were putting the cuffs on when he wrenched free and started to jump into the vehicle. There had been no sign that he was anything but cooperative until he wasn't. They were restraining him as training dictated and were not using excessive force at the time. They had no reason to escalate to a harsher restraint hold than they were using.
Jub wrote: 2021-04-14 11:31pm I expect officers to be trained to prioritize de-escalation and community safety above all else. Making the arrest and securing the evidence are far less important than building community trust and ensuring as few deaths as possible.
I understand that, but there is a debate on how Community Safety is served more, either stopping someone with a weapon charge and robbery charge from fleeing, which may result in that person causing a traffic collision and harming civilians, or by letting them flee, which immediately reduces the chance of that person being harmed by police and attempting to arrest them at home, which can lead to a barricaded suspect with potential hostage situation.

It's not an easy debate, there is no answer that fits every situation.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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Agent Fisher wrote: 2021-04-14 11:50pmI suggest watching the bodycam if it would not be too mentally distressing for you, which I say not as any sort of jab towards you. It is a video of someone being shot, after all, it is mentally distressing to watch.

They were in the process of doing so. They were placing him in cuffs, telling him that he had a warrant. They hadn't thrown him to the ground or tried to pin him to the vehicle while doing so. He was standing, having placed his hands behind his back and they were putting the cuffs on when he wrenched free and started to jump into the vehicle. There had been no sign that he was anything but cooperative until he wasn't. They were restraining him as training dictated and were not using excessive force at the time. They had no reason to escalate to a harsher restraint hold than they were using.
In that case, they weren't at fault there. That sounds like a reasonable stop given the circumstances.

I still have issues with the escalation at the end though.
I understand that, but there is a debate on how Community Safety is served more, either stopping someone with a weapon charge and robbery charge from fleeing, which may result in that person causing a traffic collision and harming civilians, or by letting them flee, which immediately reduces the chance of that person being harmed by police and attempting to arrest them at home, which can lead to a barricaded suspect with potential hostage situation.

It's not an easy debate, there is no answer that fits every situation.
The thing is that it isn't a debate in most places. The UK doesn't even have patrolling officers carry firearms, Germany and many other European nations train for warning shots, police in Toronto started looking for taser alternatives in 2019.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.5270544

Most western nations outside of the US have come down firmly on the side of de-escalation being the answer. So I consider the debate to be settled.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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Meanwhile, in opposite land:
The Independent Commissioner Against Corruption (ICAC), Ann Vanstone, released a statement on Wednesday stating the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) had charged the male officers with one count each of aggravated assault.

"The Director will allege that in the early hours of October 19, 2019, several mobile police patrols became involved in an extended pursuit of a man suspected to be driving a stolen vehicle," Ms Vanstone said.
"Police located him and directed him to raise his hands, and to then lie on the ground, which he did."

Ms Vanstone said it is alleged that a 35-year-old officer from Valley View kicked the man a number of times on his torso.

It is also alleged that a 35-year-old officer from Lightsview approached the man where he was handcuffed and seated on the ground, and forced the man's head to come into contact with the concrete footpath."
Unnecessary roughness when arresting a suspect after a car chase, it's rare enough to make the news and the officers will face the music.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-14/ ... /100067884
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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https://www.10tv.com/article/news/local ... 77d8fb0032

The story so far:

Westerville Ohio (suburb of Columbus, OH) police find a dude passed out in a car from a drug overdose.

They (Westerville police) take him to a hospital to be treated for the OD.

They find out he has a warrant for domestic violence.

They call the city police who issued the warrant.

Columbus police show up to take custody.

Oops, dude had a gun, sorry about that.

Shootout in the ER.

About 30-35 shots fired by 5-6 Officers.

Dude dead.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r2uZB4iFMI
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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MKSheppard wrote: 2021-04-14 07:32pm
:lol: :lol: :wanker: :wanker: :wanker: :wanker: :wanker: :lol: :lol:

"I am a white cop. YES, LETS KILL A BLACK MALE SUSPECT IN 2021. NOTHING WILL HAPPEN."
Yes, totally plausible. The police are absolutely arrogant enough to do that. In as much as they think about the consequences they probably see it as a way to flex and assert that they're still above the rules no matter how many people riot in response.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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Napoleon the Clown wrote: 2021-04-13 01:55am
"Mistakes" despite being a 25+ year veteran of the force. If we pretend that this was a legitimate mistake she's still guilty of negligent homicide and was attempting to engage in battery, seeing as there was no legitimate reason to tase the dude. They know where he lived. Picking him up at a later point would have been trivial. Best case scenario she wanted to inflict suffering on the guy for a thrill. More realistic case, based on all of US history and her experience as a cop of many years, she knew which weapon she grabbed and was hoping to kill him.
Honestly the best evidence I see that she made a legitimate mistake (which should still be criminally punished) is that she only shot the guy once.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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MKSheppard wrote: 2021-04-15 04:17pm https://www.10tv.com/article/news/local ... 77d8fb0032

The story so far:

Westerville Ohio (suburb of Columbus, OH) police find a dude passed out in a car from a drug overdose.

They (Westerville police) take him to a hospital to be treated for the OD.

They find out he has a warrant for domestic violence.

They call the city police who issued the warrant.

Columbus police show up to take custody.

Oops, dude had a gun, sorry about that.

Shootout in the ER.

About 30-35 shots fired by 5-6 Officers.

Dude dead.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r2uZB4iFMI
How did nobody notice he was packing heat while treating him? Why don't these departments automatically share data and allow one another to take custody of perps so they can transfer them from jail to jail at a later date? This is shitty policing all around.
Ralin wrote: 2021-04-15 06:03pmHonestly the best evidence I see that she made a legitimate mistake (which should still be criminally punished) is that she only shot the guy once.
If a civvy did that they wouldn't get the same treatment so why do we pamper the, supposedly, better-trained police officers and let them continue to 'make mistakes' that kill people?
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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Jub wrote: 2021-04-15 06:35pm If a civvy did that they wouldn't get the same treatment so why do we pamper the, supposedly, better-trained police officers and let them continue to 'make mistakes' that kill people?

Did you just skim over me saying that she should still be criminally punished even if she didn't actually intend to shoot him?
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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Ralin wrote: 2021-04-15 06:49pmDid you just skim over me saying that she should still be criminally punished even if she didn't actually intend to shoot him?
I saw it and wasn't disagreeing.

My gripe is that manslaughter 2 is light for shooting somebody in the back when they aren't a threat and that no civvy would get off with such a light initial charge; which will be pleaded down later, of course.
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