Iran election's surprise winner

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EnterpriseSovereign
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Iran election's surprise winner

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The unexpected victory of Hassan Rohani In Iran's presidential election confirms his hint that legitimacy lies with the people, not the turbaned cleric elite.
Voters in Iran were not allowed a wide range of candidates in Friday’s election for a new president. But they certainly made the most of it. They decisively chose Hassan Rohani in a huge turnout, exploiting what little liberty they have to signal a need for change.

As a Muslim cleric whose PhD thesis from a Scottish university was on the flexibility of sharia law, Mr. Rohani seems to know that Iran’s 34-year-old Islamic revolution has failed to define the source of authority for the country’s rulers. His presidential decisions will surely be subject to the whims of the unelected “supreme leader,” Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. But Rohani hints that it is the people and their own religiosity that matters most.

“You demonstrated that God will not materialize change in any country, unless the nation truly wants it,” he said after his victory.

RELATED: 4 ways US and Iran can make nuclear talks work

That a democracy must rest on the sovereignty and conscience of its people is a concept currently roiling the Middle East from Egypt to Turkey to Syria. Iran’s 2009 upheaval after a rigged election was a model for the Arab Spring but also weakened the shaky notion of imposing Islam through the power of the state. Mr. Khamenei, in fact, has lately had to appeal to Iranian nationalism and less to Shiite theology (and his own dictatorial authority).

Rohani’s win came in part because of a promise to ease restrictions on women, allow Internet freedom, and release hundreds of political prisoners who are in jail “just for their ideas,” as he put it. Even if he is sincere, he will be put to the test, however, if he moves to end the house arrests of Mehdi Karroubi and Mir Hossein Mousavi, leaders of the 2009 protests.

He will also be tested by hard-line conservative clerics and the Revolutionary Guard if he tries to fulfill a promise to “engage” the West seriously on the nuclear issue and to “heal” the “old wounds” between Iran and the United States.

In his campaign, he made clear that Iran’s economic woes are caused by its international isolation, which hints at the need to shed more light on the country’s nuclear ambitions. “Certain people in this country are proud of themselves for bringing [United Nations] sanctions on us and are proud of themselves for bringing poverty,” he said at one rally.

He also said Iran must be “more transparent to show that its activities fall within the framework of international rules.” His main opponents in the presidential race took the opposite approach.

RELATED: 6 factors that will determine concessions from Iran

Within Iran’s often-ruthless leadership, Rohani is a moderate, and one who will now have limited powers. He has long had the ear of the supreme leader, but now he has legitimacy from the people. Unlike his predecessor, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, he likely won’t be bellicose toward Israel. As a former negotiator in nuclear talks with the West, he displayed a talent for finding common interests with other nations.

President Obama and other Western leaders will need to act cautiously in dealing with Rohani. He’s not his own man, at least not yet. And he has sided with Iran’s security crackdowns in the past. Yet he represents, to a big degree, a majority of Iranians who are tired of being punished for their leaders’ actions.

With one foot in Shiite authoritarianism and another in a popular desire for democracy, he needs help in making a clear choice.
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This guy was mentioned on our news the day before the election, saying that he was moderate and only had an outside chance of winning.
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Straha
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Re: Iran election's surprise winner

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No.

Just no.

1. He is not a moderate. The moderates have been purged in Iranian politics in the most explicit way possible.
2. He is not a reformer. The reform movement is dead and buried. The only candidate who could be considered a reformer was forced out of the election.
2A. Moderate and reformer both mean very specific things in the terms of Iranian politics. The article shows no understanding of this and it is jarring because of this. An analogy might be if in the last American election cycle you saw an article with the headline "McCain the liberal won the primary contest against his conservative challenger". Those words are terms of art, and they are being used very poorly.
3. Rouhani was the most likely winner. The remnants of the reform movement's voters rallied behind him.
4. Rouhani has been part of the clerical establishment since before the revolution. He was a very very close devotee of Khomeini, and has been on the top of clerical bureaucracy since the end of the Iran-Iraq War. He is an establishment figure to the core.
5. Nothing listed above is in anyway a deviation from mainstream Iranian politics. The discussion of easing restrictions on women and freeing political prisoners goes back twenty years (arguably, thirty-four.) The article falls into the trap of thinking that Iran is a barbarous Middle Eastern country.
6. There are actual signs of a sea-change going on inside Iranian politics because of this election, but they are far more subtle and complex than can be listed here.
'After 9/11, it was "You're with us or your with the terrorists." Now its "You're with Straha or you support racism."' ' - The Romulan Republic

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Irbis
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Re: Iran election's surprise winner

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Straha wrote:1. He is not a moderate. The moderates have been purged in Iranian politics in the most explicit way possible.
Not a moderate-moderate, but he still is the most most liberal and conciliatory of all candidates, no? He certainly doesn't seem to be the next Ahmadinejad, does he?
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Re: Iran election's surprise winner

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The real power is the clerics and not the president, at any rate. So it doesn't really matter if the new guy is more liberal than the hillbilly goatfucker his predecessor was, all it matters is whether he's willing to go against the clerics. He isn't.
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Re: Iran election's surprise winner

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Iran's anticlerical forces - ranging from left-wingers to liberals - have been decimated and/or exterminated in the 1980s. Since then little has changed, if anything at all.
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Re: Iran election's surprise winner

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Iran chooses president? Yay for democracy
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Straha
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Re: Iran election's surprise winner

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Irbis wrote:
Straha wrote:1. He is not a moderate. The moderates have been purged in Iranian politics in the most explicit way possible.
Not a moderate-moderate, but he still is the most most liberal and conciliatory of all candidates, no? He certainly doesn't seem to be the next Ahmadinejad, does he?
Define what you mean by liberal and conciliatory.

And, no. He's not Ahmadinejad. I've seen them in pictures together. So they're definitely different people. As for disagreements with Ahmadinejad on important policy distinctions... Yes and no. IIRC, Rouhani resigned as the National Security Council chief over pointed disagreements with Ahmadinejad, but what those disagreements were never became public (more on that below). Rouhani certainly won't play the flamboyent buffoon that Ahmadinejad mastered to mixed blessings, but that just changes the stocking not what's underneath.

Dr. Trainwreck wrote:The real power is the clerics and not the president, at any rate. So it doesn't really matter if the new guy is more liberal than the hillbilly goatfucker his predecessor was, all it matters is whether he's willing to go against the clerics. He isn't.
Clerics are not a monolithic and hidden body, nor are they detached from other mechanisms of power or non-clerical ways of life. A Shia Cleric has no real analog in western society. 'Clerics' routinely engage in a life of business, middle-management, or whatever else may strike their fancy outside of what would be considered the realm of religious clerics in the West.
Moreover, there is no conception of secularity attached to the elected offices. Rouhani is a cleric, just like every President of Iran except for Ahmadinejad. = He has served inside the channels of power that are reserved for Clerical power only, and knows them very well.

Rather than navel-gaze about how he could use this power, I'll merely speculate that this probably represents a fundamental shift in one of the major institutional power clashes in Iran over the past two decades, the struggle between the Clerical establishment and the Pasdaran (The Revolutionary Guard.) With Ahmadinejad, the '09 election, and the 'privitization' of the Iranian economy the Revolutionary Guard was able to become the most dominating and controlling force in Iranian politics, and flexed its muscles a number of times to intimidate the clerical establishment. To have someone of old clerical revolutionary blood like Rouhani win the Presidential election could show that the Pasdaran's power is ebbing and being checked. Or not. It's too early, and certainly not our place, to say.
'After 9/11, it was "You're with us or your with the terrorists." Now its "You're with Straha or you support racism."' ' - The Romulan Republic

'You're a bully putting on an air of civility while saying that everything western and/or capitalistic must be bad, and a lot of other posters (loomer, Stas Bush, Gandalf) are also going along with it for their own personal reasons (Stas in particular is looking through rose colored glasses)' - Darth Yan
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Re: Iran election's surprise winner

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Straha wrote:Clerics are not a monolithic and hidden body, nor are they detached from other mechanisms of power or non-clerical ways of life. A Shia Cleric has no real analog in western society. 'Clerics' routinely engage in a life of business, middle-management, or whatever else may strike their fancy outside of what would be considered the realm of religious clerics in the West.
The Orthodox monasteries on Mount Athos, as well as the rest of Greece, arguably qualify. Most are landowners, some from before the Ottoman era, and regularly have deals with the state or private businesses. What I'm trying to say is, I have a frame of reference for what the Iranians do.
<snip>
Thanks for the info. I think you covered some of this in your commentary on the 2009 elections (which, I'd wanted to say, was clearer and more informative than anything the press managed to put out those days).
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Straha
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Re: Iran election's surprise winner

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Dr. Trainwreck wrote:
Straha wrote:Clerics are not a monolithic and hidden body, nor are they detached from other mechanisms of power or non-clerical ways of life. A Shia Cleric has no real analog in western society. 'Clerics' routinely engage in a life of business, middle-management, or whatever else may strike their fancy outside of what would be considered the realm of religious clerics in the West.
The Orthodox monasteries on Mount Athos, as well as the rest of Greece, arguably qualify. Most are landowners, some from before the Ottoman era, and regularly have deals with the state or private businesses. What I'm trying to say is, I have a frame of reference for what the Iranians do.
Not quite, because that still imagines someone definitively as a monk. The status of whether or not someone is a cleric in Iran is much more fluid and unclear. A bad but workable analogy is that the status of being a cleric is like having a graduate degree. Once you've put in the work and gotten the recognition you have permanent access to certain privileges, but there's absolutely no need for you to ever actually use them and (in many cases) you won't even if it might be advantageous.
'After 9/11, it was "You're with us or your with the terrorists." Now its "You're with Straha or you support racism."' ' - The Romulan Republic

'You're a bully putting on an air of civility while saying that everything western and/or capitalistic must be bad, and a lot of other posters (loomer, Stas Bush, Gandalf) are also going along with it for their own personal reasons (Stas in particular is looking through rose colored glasses)' - Darth Yan
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Re: Iran election's surprise winner

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Stas Bush wrote:Iran's anticlerical forces - ranging from left-wingers to liberals - have been decimated and/or exterminated in the 1980s. Since then little has changed, if anything at all.
I'd say Shah done much better job, but yes.
wautd wrote:Iran chooses president? Yay for democracy
Yes, Ahmadinejad was totally a puppet. It's not like he challenged priest's rule quite a few times, trying to shift power center his way, right? Same for Khatami, he had quite a lot of clashes with them. Complete puppet :roll:
Straha wrote:Clerics are not a monolithic and hidden body, nor are they detached from other mechanisms of power or non-clerical ways of life. A Shia Cleric has no real analog in western society. 'Clerics' routinely engage in a life of business, middle-management, or whatever else may strike their fancy outside of what would be considered the realm of religious clerics in the West.
That's why I think looking at Iran's president by comparison the way things work in the West is big simplification. Better analogy would be regarding 'supreme leader' as actual president (who is elected by, responsible to the Assembly of Experts, and can be removed by it) while 'president' is just really directly elected prime minister - he fulfils similar role and like western PMs is held in check by supreme leader. Is the Iranian system fully democratic? No, but it's not inherently less democratic than Turkey or Israel and IMHO, referring to either as 'only democracy in Middle East' is laughable. All 3 can lay claim to be one, albeit imperfect, and all are far more democratic than any of the region's monarchies/dictatorships West has no problems with.
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Straha
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Re: Iran election's surprise winner

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Irbis wrote: That's why I think looking at Iran's president by comparison the way things work in the West is big simplification. Better analogy would be regarding 'supreme leader' as actual president (who is elected by, responsible to the Assembly of Experts, and can be removed by it) while 'president' is just really directly elected prime minister - he fulfils similar role and like western PMs is held in check by supreme leader. Is the Iranian system fully democratic? No, but it's not inherently less democratic than Turkey or Israel and IMHO, referring to either as 'only democracy in Middle East' is laughable. All 3 can lay claim to be one, albeit imperfect, and all are far more democratic than any of the region's monarchies/dictatorships West has no problems with.
You're just flat wrong there. The events and context of 2009 prove you wrong, as do the political purges that the Iranian government has engaged in since 2009 (and, arguably, the utter side-lining of both Khatami and the reformist Majlis candidates during his second term). Claiming that the modern Iranian system is democratic is a farce, and not one I'm willing to tolerate especially given that it once was democratic not even a decade ago.
'After 9/11, it was "You're with us or your with the terrorists." Now its "You're with Straha or you support racism."' ' - The Romulan Republic

'You're a bully putting on an air of civility while saying that everything western and/or capitalistic must be bad, and a lot of other posters (loomer, Stas Bush, Gandalf) are also going along with it for their own personal reasons (Stas in particular is looking through rose colored glasses)' - Darth Yan
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