Time-Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us Read mor

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PainRack
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Time-Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us Read mor

Post by PainRack »

Too long of an article to post here but an extract
http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/b ... illing-us/
I got the idea for this article when I was visiting Rice University last year. As I was leaving the campus, which is just outside the central business district of Houston, I noticed a group of glass skyscrapers about a mile away lighting up the evening sky. The scene looked like Dubai. I was looking at the Texas Medical Center, a nearly 1,300-acre, 280-building complex of hospitals and related medical facilities, of which MD Anderson is the lead brand name. Medicine had obviously become a huge business. In fact, of Houston’s top 10 employers, five are hospitals, including MD Anderson with 19,000 employees; three, led by ExxonMobil with 14,000 employees, are energy companies. How did that happen, I wondered. Where’s all that money coming from? And where is it going? I have spent the past seven months trying to find out by analyzing a variety of bills from hospitals like MD Anderson, doctors, drug companies and every other player in the American health care ecosystem.

When you look behind the bills that Sean Recchi and other patients receive, you see nothing rational — no rhyme or reason — about the costs they faced in a marketplace they enter through no choice of their own. The only constant is the sticker shock for the patients who are asked to pay.

(iReport: Tell Us Your Health Care Story)

Gauze Pads

Photograph by Nick Veasey for TIME

Gauze Pads: $77
Charge for each of four boxes of sterile gauze pads, as itemized in a $348,000 bill following a patient’s diagnosis of lung cancer

Yet those who work in the health care industry and those who argue over health care policy seem inured to the shock. When we debate health care policy, we seem to jump right to the issue of who should pay the bills, blowing past what should be the first question: Why exactly are the bills so high?

What are the reasons, good or bad, that cancer means a half-million- or million-dollar tab? Why should a trip to the emergency room for chest pains that turn out to be indigestion bring a bill that can exceed the cost of a semester of college? What makes a single dose of even the most wonderful wonder drug cost thousands of dollars? Why does simple lab work done during a few days in a hospital cost more than a car? And what is so different about the medical ecosystem that causes technology advances to drive bills up instead of down?

Recchi’s bill and six others examined line by line for this article offer a closeup window into what happens when powerless buyers — whether they are people like Recchi or big health-insurance companies — meet sellers in what is the ultimate seller’s market.

The result is a uniquely American gold rush for those who provide everything from wonder drugs to canes to high-tech implants to CT scans to hospital bill-coding and collection services. In hundreds of small and midsize cities across the country — from Stamford, Conn., to Marlton, N.J., to Oklahoma City — the American health care market has transformed tax-exempt “nonprofit” hospitals into the towns’ most profitable businesses and largest employers, often presided over by the regions’ most richly compensated executives. And in our largest cities, the system offers lavish paychecks even to midlevel hospital managers, like the 14 administrators at New York City’s Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center who are paid over $500,000 a year, including six who make over $1 million.

Taken as a whole, these powerful institutions and the bills they churn out dominate the nation’s economy and put demands on taxpayers to a degree unequaled anywhere else on earth. In the U.S., people spend almost 20% of the gross domestic product on health care, compared with about half that in most developed countries. Yet in every measurable way, the results our health care system produces are no better and often worse than the outcomes in those countries.

According to one of a series of exhaustive studies done by the McKinsey & Co. consulting firm, we spend more on health care than the next 10 biggest spenders combined: Japan, Germany, France, China, the U.K., Italy, Canada, Brazil, Spain and Australia. We may be shocked at the $60 billion price tag for cleaning up after Hurricane Sandy. We spent almost that much last week on health care. We spend more every year on artificial knees and hips than what Hollywood collects at the box office. We spend two or three times that much on durable medical devices like canes and wheelchairs, in part because a heavily lobbied Congress forces Medicare to pay 25% to 75% more for this equipment than it would cost at Walmart.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics projects that 10 of the 20 occupations that will grow the fastest in the U.S. by 2020 are related to health care. America’s largest city may be commonly thought of as the world’s financial-services capital, but of New York’s 18 largest private employers, eight are hospitals and four are banks. Employing all those people in the cause of curing the sick is, of course, not anything to be ashamed of. But the drag on our overall economy that comes with taxpayers, employers and consumers spending so much more than is spent in any other country for the same product is unsustainable. Health care is eating away at our economy and our treasury.

The health care industry seems to have the will and the means to keep it that way. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, the pharmaceutical and health-care-product industries, combined with organizations representing doctors, hospitals, nursing homes, health services and HMOs, have spent $5.36 billion since 1998 on lobbying in Washington. That dwarfs the $1.53 billion spent by the defense and aerospace industries and the $1.3 billion spent by oil and gas interests over the same period. That’s right: the health-care-industrial complex spends more than three times what the military-industrial complex spends in Washington.

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/b ... z2M3MVF1qF
Now, we always know there's a healthy markup in prices but some of this is quite literally insane...
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Re: Time-Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us Read

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Texas Medical Center saved an organ of mine with lavish use of high technology, sparing me a lifetime of life threatening complications. Comparing the place to Dubai is more then slightly stupid.

The itemized bill I got though, and insurance covered, out of that week in the hospital, yeah it had some fun stuff. One that always stuck in my head, because it was the first bill we got, included 10.62 cents for what could not have been over fifteen feet of tape to tape me to the ambulance gurney as the normal straps could not be used with internal bleeding. Yeah its more then a little crazy, I think many costs must be created entirely out of thin air by dividing 'averaged' costs of care into a thousand random consumable items they don't actually keep precise track of.

The point about healthcare outspending defense on lobbying is rather odd, if the health industry is 20% of the GDP, and defense is more like 5% of the GDP, of course the industry is going to massively outspend them! It should be four times or more, not three if they were as rabid, all the more so considering how much more directly it affects voters.
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Re: Time-Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us Read

Post by weemadando »

But it's that kind of ridiculously granular billing and associated administration costs that mean that have blown out health budgets. Imagine how much is being wasted on maintaining and enormous bureaucracy (that shames public systems around the world in its scropet) dedicated to extracting every penny possible from a patient.
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Re: Time-Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us Read

Post by Sea Skimmer »

And the argument goes, if you don't try to bill for everything, you don't provide any incentive to reduce waste. Which doesn't really work, but that's the initial logic of not having flat fees for stuff. In reality you end up with a compromise system by which the insurance companies never actually pay the whole bills, but they basically end up providing average kinds of costs back to the hospitals. Of course, all costs are also inflated out of hand by the need to cover uninsured.

My understanding though is that most bureaucracy costs are dealing with the hundreds of different insurance plans, not calculating the bill up front. That part is largely automated, but the interfacing to the different plans isn't because its too many changing too quickly.
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Re: Time-Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us Read

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Sea Skimmer wrote:And the argument goes, if you don't try to bill for everything, you don't provide any incentive to reduce waste. Which doesn't really work, but that's the initial logic of not having flat fees for stuff. In reality you end up with a compromise system by which the insurance companies never actually pay the whole bills, but they basically end up providing average kinds of costs back to the hospitals. Of course, all costs are also inflated out of hand by the need to cover uninsured.

My understanding though is that most bureaucracy costs are dealing with the hundreds of different insurance plans, not calculating the bill up front. That part is largely automated, but the interfacing to the different plans isn't because its too many changing too quickly.
Actually, the need to cover the uninsured is... a bit odd. I managed to fall on an empty aquarium last year (dont ask). Ended up with a 4 cm laceration on my arm that came a bit close to some important blood vessels and got pretty damn deep. Not even big enough to need stitches. Just superglue and a tetanus booster.

The total bill came to just over 675 USD. 250 for the hospital (which was AFTER they took 75% off because I was paying cash. This included almost 100 USD for a tube of superglue), and 425 for 5 minutes of the doctor's time (after 20% off for paying cash).

This indicates to me that they have some really really strange reimbursment contracts with insurance companies that they do not apply to someone paying when they leave the hospital. They are not covering the uninsured, at least not entirely, because I was uninsured and the bill was still insane. I spent more time waiting for the bill AFTER having my arm glued closed than I did with both the triage nurse, the nurse taking history, or the physician. And yet... wtf
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Alan Bolte
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Re: Time-Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us Read

Post by Alan Bolte »

Alyrium, I believe "covering the uninsured" refers to people who don't pay their bills, not that people aren't billed.
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Re: Time-Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us Read

Post by Fiji_Fury »

Not to sound all socialist here, but you also have to recognize that if HMO's and hospitals and doctor's are all operating on a private industry, for profit model that the profit margin also adds to the costs of medical treatment in the USA every step of the way. This is especially likely considering the relatively inelastic nature of emergency/trauma care and many of the medical costs associated with serious illness. When the relative demand for a service is inelastic or essentially rigid then "market forces" do not behave in a way that produce lower costs to consumers. Put another way: if you have cancer and your only options are 1) Pay insane price for treatment or 2) certain death, you don't really have a choice. Similarly if you fall on glass and are badly cut. That injury needs treatment. PERIOD. These things are not really negotiable, and as a consequence, hospitals and service providers get to set some of the outrageous prices noted earlier in the thread, and consumers have very little ability to use "competition" as a method of discouraging those high prices.

And none of my above statements even deal with the fact that such medical fees as in the US dis-incentivise preventative care and check-ups that could allow for early detection of many diseases when they could be treated far less expensively or instrusively. Or the overhead administrative costs associated with complex billing and insurance-interfacing departments. Or the marketing/advertising costs. Or the increased legal litigation in the USA vs. Canada. All of these factors add costs to health services which might not be necessary, except in the US model of health care.

Personally, anytime a Canadian argues we should have a "more efficient private system like in the USA" I want to slap the stupid out of them.
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Re: Time-Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us Read

Post by Starglider »

Fiji_Fury wrote:This is especially likely considering the relatively inelastic nature of emergency/trauma care and many of the medical costs associated with serious illness... and consumers have very little ability to use "competition" as a method of discouraging those high prices.
Inelastic demand on its own isn't sufficient to produce pathological behavior; demand for many commodities and services (anything that isn't a luxury and doesn't have a simple substitute) is quite inelastic. The primary problem is lack of meaningful competition, compounded by the inability of most customers to challenge doctors decisions or even comprehend the billing process. Healthcare is so heavily regulated (by all first world governments), so capital intensive and so open to abuse that I'm not sure if there is any way to make fully-private healthcare effective. In the UK system the presence of the free NHS option makes private healthcare a luxury good with much more sensible pricing.
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Re: Time-Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us Read

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Alan Bolte wrote:Alyrium, I believe "covering the uninsured" refers to people who don't pay their bills, not that people aren't billed.
That would be correct, as well as the fact that you have say, a homeless man brought in via an ambulance who its just not even possible to bill because they have no address and no identification. State and some local governments provide a certain amount of funding to cover this sort of thing, but it is never, ever equal to the costs involved. The rest is passed onto the insurance companies and people who do pay bills independently. This very issue was the whole logic behind forcing people to buy insurance that was originally a Republican idea but turned into Obama care years later. It just doesn't work to have people 'choose' to opt out. They may not even be in a physical position to do so.

As anaside, I've been told straight up by an long term ER nurse that if you have an injury that isn't going to require hospitalization, if you come in with no ID on you and give a fake name and address they'll just have to treat you and that's it. You'll have to wait, but you'd wait longer without insurance any way about it unless its life threatening. Or if you go to a wonderful Phily ER hospital, you'll wait no matter what to the point that its quicker to drive or get driven to a hospital outside of the city if you can.
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Bitter Pill: Why Healthcare Costs are Killing Us (USA)

Post by Chirios »

Read this today, had some questions.

It's an 11 page document so won't won't it here, but it reminded me of something broomstick said to me earlier on a similar topic.
they're charging more than the actual cost just to break even.

Yes, I will explain.

Insurance companies contract with hospitals and various other systems to pay only a percentage of the “usual and customary rate” in exchange for encouraging their customers/patients to go to those medical providers. In some cases, these negotiated rates wound up below cost. In response, the “usual and customary rate” went up. And up. It's been a years-long tug-of-war between insurance companies negotiating percentage of rates down and medical providers raising prices. Likewise, Medicaid and Medicare pay only a percentage of usual and customary rates. The result is that when someone without insurance at all goes in for medical care they get slammed by the fully inflated price. The fact that quite a few of those uninsured people really can't pay means there is, on top of everything else, an incentive to raise rates still further to try to squeeze some money out of people to cover what just plain doesn't get paid.

Yes, $20,000 for hernia surgery, or any abdominal surgery, is quite in line with US medical costs.
If this is the case, what is the solution?
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Re: Bitter Pill: Why Healthcare Costs are Killing Us (USA)

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There's already a thread on this here.
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Re: Time-Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us Read

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Merged.
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