Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

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Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by Col. Crackpot »

Seems Mr. Assad is preparing his endgame.

NBC News
By Jim Miklaszewski and M. Alex Johnson, NBC News
The Syrian military is prepared to use chemical weapons against its own people and is awaiting final orders from President Bashar Assad, U.S. officials told NBC News on Wednesday.

Andrea Mitchell, Robert Windrem, Courtney Kube and Catherine Chomiak of NBC News contributed to this report. Follow M. Alex Johnson on Twitter and Facebook.

The military has loaded the precursor chemicals for sarin, a deadly nerve gas, into aerial bombs that could be dropped onto the Syrian people from dozens of fighter-bombers, the officials said.
As recently as Tuesday, officials had said there was as yet no evidence that the process of mixing the "precursor" chemicals had begun. But Wednesday, they said their worst fears had been confirmed: The nerve agents were locked and loaded inside the bombs.
Sarin is an extraordinarily lethal agent. Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's forces killed 5,000 Kurds with a single sarin attack on Halabja in 1988.

U.S. officials stressed that as of now, the sarin bombs hadn't been loaded onto planes and that Assad hadn't issued a final order to use them. But if he does, one of the officials said, "there's little the outside world can do to stop it."
Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton reiterated U.S. warnings to Assad not to use chemical weapons, saying he would be crossing "a red line" if he did so.
Speaking Wednesday at NATO headquarters in Brussels, Clinton said the Syrian government was on the brink of collapse, raising the prospect that "an increasingly desperate Assad regime" might turn to chemical weapons or that the banned weapons could fall into other hands.

Ultimately, what we should be thinking about is a political transition in Syria and one that should start as soon as possible," Clinton said. "We believe their fall is inevitable. It is just a question of how many people have to die before that occurs."
Aides told NBC News that Clinton was expected next week to officially recognize the main opposition movement, the National Coalition of Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces, with which she is scheduled to meet in Morocco. Britain, France, Turkey and some key Arab leaders have already recognized the opposition.
Fighting intensified Wednesday in the 21-month civil war, which has left 40,000 people dead. The U.N. withdrew its personnel from Damascus, saying conditions were too dangerous.
The government said this week that it wouldn't use chemical weapons on its own people after President Barack Obama warned that doing so would be "totally unacceptable."

But U.S. officials said this week that the government had ordered its Chemical Weapons Corps to "be prepared," which Washington interpreted as a directive to begin bringing together the components needed to weaponize Syria's chemical stockpiles.
That process would involve mixing "precursor" chemicals for the deadly nerve gas sarin, which could be used in artillery shells, U.S. officials told NBC News, stressing that there was no evidence that process had as yet begun.
Watch World News videos on NBCNews.com
U.S. officials had long believed that the Syrian government was stockpiling the banned chemical weapons before it acknowledged possessing them this summer.
NBC News reported in July that U.S. intelligence agencies believed that in addition to sarin, Syria had access to tabun, a chemical nerve agent, as well as traditional chemical weapons like mustard gas and hydrogen cyanide.
Officials told NBC News at the time that the Syrian government was moving the outlawed weapons around the country, leaving foreign intelligence agencies unsure where they might end up.
Syria is one of only seven nations that hasn't ratified the 1992 Chemical Weapons Convention, the arms control agreement that outlaws the production, stockpiling and use of such weapons.
Bombshells filled with chemicals can be carried by Syrian Air Force fighter-bombers, in particular Sukhoi-22/20, MiG-23 and Sukhoi-24 aircraft. In addition, some reports indicate that unguided short-range Frog-7 artillery rockets may be capable of carrying chemical payloads.

But U.S. officials said this week that the government had ordered its Chemical Weapons Corps to "be prepared," which Washington interpreted as a directive to begin bringing together the components needed to weaponize Syria's chemical stockpiles.
That process would involve mixing "precursor" chemicals for the deadly nerve gas sarin, which could be used in artillery shells, U.S. officials told NBC News, stressing that there was no evidence that process had as yet begun.
Watch World News videos on NBCNews.com
U.S. officials had long believed that the Syrian government was stockpiling the banned chemical weapons before it acknowledged possessing them this summer.
NBC News reported in July that U.S. intelligence agencies believed that in addition to sarin, Syria had access to tabun, a chemical nerve agent, as well as traditional chemical weapons like mustard gas and hydrogen cyanide.
Officials told NBC News at the time that the Syrian government was moving the outlawed weapons around the country, leaving foreign intelligence agencies unsure where they might end up.
Syria is one of only seven nations that hasn't ratified the 1992 Chemical Weapons Convention, the arms control agreement that outlaws the production, stockpiling and use of such weapons.
Bombshells filled with chemicals can be carried by Syrian Air Force fighter-bombers, in particular Sukhoi-22/20, MiG-23 and Sukhoi-24 aircraft. In addition, some reports indicate that unguided short-range Frog-7 artillery rockets may be capable of carrying chemical payloads.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by Aaron MkII »

Well he's signed his own death warrant if they use them, and it's almost certain the West will get involved.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by Guardsman Bass »

Agreed. I suspect that if he goes ahead, the US will start bombing his forces (and possibly targeting him directly).
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by Alyeska »

Just like when the United States interfered with Iraq's use of chemical weapons.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by Stark »

Hey is this the exact same article from that other thread?

I wonder if people knowing intelligence agencies will follow this stuff makes them pretend, or that confirmation bias always leads to the same vague claims.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by Aaron MkII »

Situation isn't all that comparable. Gassing a village is different then large scale NBC usage. Tens of thousands of potential casualties, and iirc Sarin is a persistent agent.

Dan, my first thought was "we've heard this before"

And still, I don't want us in there, regardless of whether its true or not.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by Stark »

In the thread about Syrian internet it's been posted too. It's so full of vagueness that you'd think people in the west would fucking learn. Some guys believe someone might have access to something and its unconfirmed... I know I'm scared. I will now obey my leaders.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by Flagg »

I don't want ground forces in there, but I wouldn't mind wiping out Assads airforce if he uses that shit.

EDIT: Which isn't to say I want to get involved, but I think the west almost has to if he uses chemical weapons. Not to do so would be hypocritical as fuck. But I don't think it would warrent a full scale war or ground invasion.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by Aaron MkII »

I agree, use the air force and bomb him if they can find him. Lend air support to the rebels, maybe.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by Sidewinder »

I wonder if Assad is sane enough to realize using chemical weapons will GUARANTEE foreign intervention- at least from Turkey, which wouldn't appreciate Syria using WMD along its borders.
Alyeska wrote:Just like when the United States interfered with Iraq's use of chemical weapons.
If you're being sarcastic, you failed. When Iraq used chemical weapons against the Kurds, the nation was a US ally, due to the fact it was fighting Iran. After Saddam ordered the invasion of Kuwait, the US threatened to retaliate in kind if Iraq used WMD.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by Broomstick »

My question is:

If Syria does use chemical weapons against its own people what do YOU want to see happen?
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by Aaron MkII »

Honestly? I have no idea, there are no good answers.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by JME2 »

Sidewinder wrote:I wonder if Assad is sane enough to realize using chemical weapons will GUARANTEE foreign intervention- at least from Turkey, which wouldn't appreciate Syria using WMD along its borders.
Either it's a calculated risk or the rebels' push to Damascus has pushed him to the point of desperation.

This isn't going well...
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by Mr Bean »

Broomstick wrote:My question is:

If Syria does use chemical weapons against its own people what do YOU want to see happen?
Complete decimation of his conventional forces, if it's a tank we bomb it. If it's an ammo depot we hit it. Assade himself gets earmarked for a special operations team pickup and being deposited in front of the International Criminal Court. But then if I were in Obama's shoes I'd have the military drawing up a target list good enough for continuous operations for seventy two hours. On the hour every hour I want at least twenty sites hit. Does not have to be exact you understand but I want enough ordnance in theater to empty out the carriers and nearby airfields of every single plane. I want shuttle runs bringing in more bombs and bullets if required to ensure those three days of hell then I'd hand things back to the rebels. To be sure the reason why is we've used up so much my three days would use up everything in theater but I'd rather a three day concentrated smack down then two weeks of off again on again bombing like with Libya.

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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by lance »

Broomstick wrote:My question is:

If Syria does use chemical weapons against its own people what do YOU want to see happen?
For them to be exceptionally ineffective.


beyond that at least a no fly zone, maybe air support to the rebels
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by Haruko »

Wonder if he would really go all scorched-earth parting gift like the president in Babylon 5.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by Stark »

Maybe you should save he hysteria until there are actually facts involved and not just yet more 'western intelligence vaguely hints at this to drive policy'. I mean do some people never learn or what?

Maybe the macho posturing, being hard men with tough answers, is the appeal in itself.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by SirNitram »

If there is proof they have chem warheads ready to go, thermobaric weapons dropped on the depots and launch sites until they're sterilized.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Random question - what makes your (poster's) attitudes change when it's death by chemicals, as opposed to death by a bullet to the head, a tank-shell to the neighbourhood, or other similar slaughter-methods?
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by TimothyC »

Truman and Bush both left Norfolk on the fourth. Ike is making a run back to Norfolk for a quick deck resurfacing before returning to the Persian Gulf to replace Nimitz (which had machinery issues last month, and so won't coming on station to relieve Ike).

This leaves Nimitz with machinery issues in Everett, Vinson getting a refit in San Diego, TR coming off her RCOH, Lincoln getting ready for her RCOH, Washington in port at Yokosuka, Stennis in the North Arabian Sea, & Reagan is in refit at Bremerton. For a while at least, we have no contingency carrier.

For everyone who ever complains that US defense spending is too high - this is why we have 10 carriers. If you want the ability to take down the air defenses of a nation when we chose, then this is what it takes.

Just for reference, It's ~ 4 days to transit the Atlantic at top speed, and another two and a half to cross the Mediterranean.
Last edited by TimothyC on 2012-12-06 02:51am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by Stark »

To be number one on the killboard is expensive! :lol:

And Death, things like this mean it's 'ok' and 'safe' to posture ferociously. Nobody will call you on it, and if they do they're bad people.

That there appears to be no actual evidence of anything (just like the last half-dozen times western intelligence agencies flat out lied) should not prevent us all from posting as much nonsense as possible.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by wautd »

Don't know what would be worse. The regime using those weapons, or religious fanatics getting their hands on those weapons once the regime falls. I hope I'm wrong but I think there's a large chance those weapons will be used one way or another.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by cosmicalstorm »

The Grim Squeaker wrote:Random question - what makes your (poster's) attitudes change when it's death by chemicals, as opposed to death by a bullet to the head, a tank-shell to the neighbourhood, or other similar slaughter-methods?
I prefer that it remains as unacceptable as possible to apply NBC in war. Never lower the bar. We will continue to live in a world where human bodies are riddled with bullets and shrapnel on a daily basis, but it seems we can keep away from the nastier stuff even in these days.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by PeZook »

Chemical weapons are little different from murdering people via bullets, shrapnel and bombs, but they can murder a whole lot of people very quickly. 99% of these people are also going to be civilians, who lack any effective protection. Plus they contaminate areas with splotches of deadly poison, sometimes for years.
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Re: Syria loading Sarin into bombs for deployment

Post by Broomstick »

lance wrote:
Broomstick wrote:If Syria does use chemical weapons against its own people what do YOU want to see happen?
For them to be exceptionally ineffective.
I think I like your answer best.
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