9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

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9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by Bright » 2012-07-05 06:28pm

http://articles.philly.com/2012-07-04/n ... r-id-cards
More than 758,000 registered voters in Pennsylvania do not have photo identification cards from the state Transportation Department, putting their voting rights at risk in the November election, according to data released Tuesday by state election officials.

The figures - representing 9.2 percent of the state's 8.2 million voters - are significantly higher than prior estimates by the Corbett administration. Secretary of the Commonwealth Carol Aichele has repeatedly said that 99 percent of Pennsylvania's voters already had the photo ID they will need at the polls in November.

The new numbers, based on a comparison of voter registration rolls with PennDot ID databases, shows the potential problem is much bigger, particularly in Philadelphia, where 186,830 registered voters - 18 percent of the city's total registration - do not have PennDot ID.

Under Pennsylvania's new voter ID law, various other forms of photo identification will be accepted at voting places in November, including U.S. passports, student identification cards with expiration dates, current military identification, and ID cards issued to government employees.

But for most voters, the Pennsylvania driver's license is the standard photo ID. The disclosure that 9 percent of the state's registered voters don't have one - or an alternative, nondriver PennDot photo ID - provides a clearer picture of the hurdle set up by the state's new voter ID requirement.

Republican lawmakers pushed the bill through the legislature in March and it was signed into law by Gov. Corbett, over protests from Democrats that the measure would disenfranchise thousands of voters, disproportionately affecting those without driver's licenses - the poor, the elderly, and the young.

House Republican leader Mike Turzai acknowledged the law's political implications at a Republican State Committee meeting last month.

"Voter ID - which is going to allow Gov. Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania - done," Turzai told the crowd, which burst into applause, as he listed legislative accomplishments under GOP control.

The law still faces a legal challenge as a possible violation of the state constitution. Commonwealth Court Judge Robert Simpson scheduled a July 25 hearing and his decision is likely to reach the state Supreme Court before November.

Aichele's department issued the figures Tuesday without mentioning her past estimates.

"This thorough comparison of databases confirms that most Pennsylvanians have acceptable photo ID for voting this November," she said in a news release. "This comparison takes into account only voters with PennDot IDs, and does not include voters who may have any of the other various acceptable forms of ID."

A Department of State spokesman, Ron Ruman, noted that 167,566 of the registered voters without PennDot ID were classified as "inactive," not having voted in the last four years. "Our experience is, a lot of these people are former college students who don't live here anymore," he said in an interview.

He said the methodology used by PennDot and the Department of State - a match of first names, last names and birth dates - may also have missed some voters who have PennDot ID.

For example, if someone named Anna Nicole Jones registered to vote as Anna Jones but got her driver's license as Nicole Jones, she would be listed as a non-match, Ruman said.

Philadelphia's top election official, City Commission Chair Stephanie Singer, said the figures reinforced her view that the state's new law was designed to suppress voter turnout in the predominantly Democratic city.

With 18 percent of voters not having PennDot ID, she said, "Philadelphia is hit much harder by this than any of the other counties."

Singer had sought to obtain PennDot's data directly and set up a telephone call last month to speak to PennDot Secretary Barry J. Schoch.

But Aichele's office found out about the call and canceled it on the ground that the Department of State was supposed to be the point agency for all matters involving voter ID.

Singer said she now was anxious to receive the state data including names and addresses for those without PennDot ID - data that the state initially promised to send her office in May, Singer said.

Ruman said the state planned to distribute the lists to county election boards by next week. In addition, he said, the state intends to send letters this summer to all voters without PennDot ID telling them of the new law, the types of ID that will be necessary to vote in November, and how to obtain suitable ID if they need it.

Behind Philadelphia's 18 percent, nine other counties - Allegheny, Cameron, Centre, Cumberland, Delaware, Lackawanna, Lawrence, Montour, and Union - were reported to have 10 percent to 12 percent of their voters without PennDot ID. In the other 57 counties, more than 90 percent of voters reportedly had driver's licenses or nondriver ID, according to the state data.
Can someone explain how something like this is even allowed? I mean, this will get rejected by the state's Supreme Court... won't it?

Even so, the outright admission that this was done to manipulate the vote is just genuinely despicable.

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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by General Zod » 2012-07-05 06:43pm

It was allowed because Republicans don't really think it's a significant amount of people who will be affected. And if they don't have an ID then they probably aren't here legally anyway.
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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by Agent Fisher » 2012-07-05 06:46pm

What's wrong with needing some sort of proof of identity to vote? I mean, fuck, if you don't need proof of who you are, I could just walk in, give someone elses name, get a ballot and vote for them. Yes, it's shitty that 9% of registered voters don't have some sort of valid photo id, but how the fuck do they get around in life without it?

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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by evilsoup » 2012-07-05 07:00pm

The problem is if you charge people for it.

I've never needed any kind of ID to vote, just the polling card that gets sent in the post. I guess potentially someone could steal that and take my vote, but I'm not sure why anyone would bother.
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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by General Zod » 2012-07-05 07:01pm

Agent Fisher wrote:What's wrong with needing some sort of proof of identity to vote? I mean, fuck, if you don't need proof of who you are, I could just walk in, give someone elses name, get a ballot and vote for them. Yes, it's shitty that 9% of registered voters don't have some sort of valid photo id, but how the fuck do they get around in life without it?
There's a lot of teenagers who just turned 18 and don't have one yet. Also, there's the quite a few people who let their IDs expire and probably haven't gotten them in time or get the bureaucratic runaround. I don't have a problem with voter identification as long as your picture ID isn't the sole solitary document that lets you vote, not allowing alternate forms is a great way to disenfranchise voters.
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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by Losonti Tokash » 2012-07-05 07:09pm

Most places are fine with just presenting a piece of mail addressed to you. A major problem with photo id voting laws is that they then don't provide said IDs for free which just turns it into a complicated poll tax. Which would be blatantly illegal.

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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by evilsoup » 2012-07-05 07:11pm

Losonti Tokash wrote:Most places are fine with just presenting a piece of mail addressed to you. A major problem with photo id voting laws is that they then don't provide said IDs for free which just turns it into a complicated poll tax. Which would be blatantly illegal.
Blatantly illegal, and also the intended purpose according to the OP article.
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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by Ralin » 2012-07-05 07:21pm

I understand why Republicans push this sort of thing but I gotta be honest, I have a really hard time justifying the idea that I need photo ID to buy a six pack of beer but not to vote.

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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by General Zod » 2012-07-05 07:54pm

Ralin wrote:I understand why Republicans push this sort of thing but I gotta be honest, I have a really hard time justifying the idea that I need photo ID to buy a six pack of beer but not to vote.
Where is the evidence that this sort of voter fraud is a problem anyway? The only sort of voter fraud I ever hear about on any kind of wide scale actually being convicted involves Republicans removing qualified voters from the polls.
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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by Blayne » 2012-07-05 08:17pm

Voter ID Law's are also a de facto Poll Tax which means it tries to prevent the poor and those suffering from poverty from being able to vote.

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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by Bakustra » 2012-07-05 09:15pm

Well, that and poll taxes have an entire amendment to the Constitution specifically banning them. It would be interesting to see whether the Supreme Court would be willing to wade into this, which way "In a 5-4 decision..." would play out, and how Scalia, Thomas, and Alito would justify charging for voting.
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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by Todeswind » 2012-07-05 11:01pm

There are a number of ID's one can get that don't require one to have passed the driving test ( which BTW in PA pretty much only requires that one has a face and can work the pedals). If Mailing a photo of yourself from the post office to get a passport is too expensive for you or too much of a hassle, you go the the DMV give them 14 dollars and they make your ID. Seriously, that's it.

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/driverlicens ... toid.shtml

That doesn't strike me as Orwellian.

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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by Blayne » 2012-07-05 11:05pm

I've seen though cannot recall off the top of my head, how even going to the DMV can be a huge hassle to those below the poverty line, since often you do not own a car, or need to get someone else to drive you, you might also be working two full time jobs so you will not just simply have the time, and so on.

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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by Todeswind » 2012-07-05 11:12pm

Considering that some forms of ID can apparently be done both online and through the mail I'm skeptical that that counts as a legitimate reason.

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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by SirNitram » 2012-07-05 11:31pm

Todeswind wrote:There are a number of ID's one can get that don't require one to have passed the driving test ( which BTW in PA pretty much only requires that one has a face and can work the pedals). If Mailing a photo of yourself from the post office to get a passport is too expensive for you or too much of a hassle, you go the the DMV give them 14 dollars and they make your ID. Seriously, that's it.

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/driverlicens ... toid.shtml

That doesn't strike me as Orwellian.
14 dollars is still enough to be unconstitutional.
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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by General Zod » 2012-07-05 11:35pm

Todeswind wrote:There are a number of ID's one can get that don't require one to have passed the driving test ( which BTW in PA pretty much only requires that one has a face and can work the pedals). If Mailing a photo of yourself from the post office to get a passport is too expensive for you or too much of a hassle, you go the the DMV give them 14 dollars and they make your ID. Seriously, that's it.
Depends on your state. Some states make it unreasonably difficult.

http://www.iowadot.gov/mvd/ods/identity.htm

If your parents were natural citizens but you were born out of the US, or one of your parents was a citizen and the other was a foreign national, you might be shit out of luck.
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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by Blayne » 2012-07-05 11:37pm

Todeswind wrote:Considering that some forms of ID can apparently be done both online and through the mail I'm skeptical that that counts as a legitimate reason.
Dude, turnout is extremely low, why economically disincentivize voting? This is separate of course from the clearly constitutional/legal arguments.

Frankly election day should be a holiday so you have the day off to vote, or have polls open all week and allow for early mail in voting through run-off method.

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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by Simon_Jester » 2012-07-05 11:49pm

Also, frankly, I agree with Zod, the whole issue's a chimera. Documentation of voter fraud is so thin on the ground that even if it's theoretically a terrible thing it's not much of a threat. Especially when you consider that we don't seem to be worrying about fake IDs.
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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by Stofsk » 2012-07-06 12:15am

Blayne wrote:
Todeswind wrote:Considering that some forms of ID can apparently be done both online and through the mail I'm skeptical that that counts as a legitimate reason.
Dude, turnout is extremely low, why economically disincentivize voting? This is separate of course from the clearly constitutional/legal arguments.

Frankly election day should be a holiday so you have the day off to vote, or have polls open all week and allow for early mail in voting through run-off method.
Or you have polling day on the weekend.

Seriously this shit isn't hard.
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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by Todeswind » 2012-07-06 01:15am

Blayne wrote:
Todeswind wrote:Considering that some forms of ID can apparently be done both online and through the mail I'm skeptical that that counts as a legitimate reason.
Dude, turnout is extremely low, why economically disincentivize voting? This is separate of course from the clearly constitutional/legal arguments.
Because as a functional adult there isn't a good reason that you can't produce an acceptable photo ID of some sort. If you're under the age of 18 your student ID from your high school will apparently be acceptable. If you're over 18 it is inconceivable that you can't find time to mail in the $13.50 before November.
Frankly election day should be a holiday so you have the day off to vote, or have polls open all week and allow for early mail in voting through run-off method.
This is a valid point.

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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by General Zod » 2012-07-06 01:16am

Todeswind wrote: Because as a functional adult there isn't a good reason that you can't produce an acceptable photo ID of some sort. If you're under the age of 18 your student ID from your high school will apparently be acceptable. If you're over 18 it is inconceivable that you can't find time to mail in the $13.50 before November.
Remind me again what the homeless population of Pennsylvania is?
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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by SirNitram » 2012-07-06 01:29am

Stofsk wrote:
Blayne wrote:
Todeswind wrote:Considering that some forms of ID can apparently be done both online and through the mail I'm skeptical that that counts as a legitimate reason.
Dude, turnout is extremely low, why economically disincentivize voting? This is separate of course from the clearly constitutional/legal arguments.

Frankly election day should be a holiday so you have the day off to vote, or have polls open all week and allow for early mail in voting through run-off method.
Or you have polling day on the weekend.

Seriously this shit isn't hard.
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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by Todeswind » 2012-07-06 01:31am

0.12% of the state is homeless. --> http://www.statehealthfacts.org/profile ... t=1&rgn=40

There are a grand total of 14 thousand homeless in PA.

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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by Blayne » 2012-07-06 01:32am

Todeswind wrote:
Blayne wrote:
Todeswind wrote:Considering that some forms of ID can apparently be done both online and through the mail I'm skeptical that that counts as a legitimate reason.
Dude, turnout is extremely low, why economically disincentivize voting? This is separate of course from the clearly constitutional/legal arguments.
Because as a functional adult there isn't a good reason that you can't produce an acceptable photo ID of some sort. If you're under the age of 18 your student ID from your high school will apparently be acceptable. If you're over 18 it is inconceivable that you can't find time to mail in the $13.50 before November.
Frankly election day should be a holiday so you have the day off to vote, or have polls open all week and allow for early mail in voting through run-off method.
This is a valid point.
I shouldn't have to pay a dime in order to partake in my civic duty.

The measure is entirely designed to commit voter suppression on democratic voting constituencies.

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Re: 9% of Pennsylvanian voters not allowed to vote.

Post by General Zod » 2012-07-06 01:41am

Todeswind wrote:0.12% of the state is homeless. --> http://www.statehealthfacts.org/profile ... t=1&rgn=40

There are a grand total of 14 thousand homeless in PA.
Now remind me again how many votes it took for Shrubby to win Florida from Gore?
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