Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by aerius »

Flagg wrote:The story as told by family members and his attorneys you twat. You knew exactly what I was saying so don't be all obtuse about it. Unless these people were just making shit up, they were getting the story from Zimmerman. And it kept changing. And of course it's more reliable than doctored tapes, because as pointed out, it must have been coming from Zimmerman unless they were just making shit up which makes him look even worse.
So you expect several 2nd hand accounts as told by different people at different times and interpreted through the media to somehow be consistent? Were you always this fucking stupid or did the did the docs stick the colonoscopy probe so far up your ass that it lobotomized you? Find me the original interview transcripts or shut the fuck up. Better yet, quit shitting up this thread with your stupidity.
CarsonPalmer wrote:How about common fucking sense? He shouldn't have been playing vigilante out there-he wasn't actually in a Neighborhood Watch, he was just some guy who was taking it on himself to patrol the streets, and even if he had been in a Neighborhood Watch, those organizations specifically urge their members not to carry weapons and not to follow people they suspect of doing things.

Its one thing to intervene if a person is in imminent danger of harming another; its another to follow someone who "looks suspicious" for blocks.
Here's a map, audio, and timeline of events. How do you square this with Zimmerman stalking Martin and chasing him down to confront him?
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/ ... ubled-back
IF this timeline is anything close to the actual events, Zimmerman maintained contact with Martin so that he could guide the police towards him, and in fact he'd lost track of Martin and was headed back to his truck to meet with police. He wasn't chasing Martin down all over the block.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by Flagg »

aerius wrote:
Flagg wrote:The story as told by family members and his attorneys you twat. You knew exactly what I was saying so don't be all obtuse about it. Unless these people were just making shit up, they were getting the story from Zimmerman. And it kept changing. And of course it's more reliable than doctored tapes, because as pointed out, it must have been coming from Zimmerman unless they were just making shit up which makes him look even worse.
So you expect several 2nd hand accounts as told by different people at different times and interpreted through the media to somehow be consistent? Were you always this fucking stupid or did the did the docs stick the colonoscopy probe so far up your ass that it lobotomized you? Find me the original interview transcripts or shut the fuck up. Better yet, quit shitting up this thread with your stupidity.
How about you stop being a fucking stoned retard long enough to figure out that his surrogates must have been getting the stories they were telling in the same media you're now whining about from him?
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by CarsonPalmer »

Here's a map, audio, and timeline of events. How do you square this with Zimmerman stalking Martin and chasing him down to confront him?
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/ ... ubled-back
IF this timeline is anything close to the actual events, Zimmerman maintained contact with Martin so that he could guide the police towards him, and in fact he'd lost track of Martin and was headed back to his truck to meet with police. He wasn't chasing Martin down all over the block.
He shouldn't have been following him at all. What was he doing "maintaining contact"? That's the kind of shit that actual neighborhood watch associations (of which Zimmerman was not a part) don't want their people doing.

If Martin at any point was going to do something illegal, the police would have been able to deal with it then.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by aerius »

Flagg wrote:How about you stop being a fucking stoned retard long enough to figure out that his surrogates must have been getting the stories they were telling in the same media you're now whining about from him?
You really are that stupid aren't you? Can you even tie your own shoelaces or do you have to wear velcro shoes? Let me walk you through this again. Zimmerman presumably told his version of events to various people; the police, his lawyers, his family, and possibly some others. His lawyer and his family then talked to the media, which then prints it up for distribution. What I'm saying is that even if Zimmerman told everyone the exact same story, (which by the way I doubt he did) those people will not remember it the same way, and whatever they remember is further distorted when they tell it to the media reporters since those reporters aren't fucking robots and will have their own individual biases & interpretations. You're basically playing the childhood game of broken telephone, it would be a fucking miracle if the all the interviews in the media matched.

This is why I say you have to get to the original transcripts where Zimmerman tells his story to the police, his lawyers, and his family. If you can't get them you can't prove shit.
CarsonPalmer wrote:He shouldn't have been following him at all. What was he doing "maintaining contact"? That's the kind of shit that actual neighborhood watch associations (of which Zimmerman was not a part) don't want their people doing.

If Martin at any point was going to do something illegal, the police would have been able to deal with it then.
I'm not going to continue arguing this point since I'm not familiar enough with the rules & regs of US neighbourhood watches. I can't definitely state whether it was right or wrong and cite the relevant rules to back it up so I'm going to let it drop.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

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Aaron MkII wrote:More likely its cultural, you have a nation there that is big on fighting crime, militant police and a seige mentality. Its a breeding ground for this.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by Grumman »

Flagg wrote:The story as told by family members and his attorneys you twat.
So because someone else retold his side of the story wrong, he's guilty? I'm with Aerius, that's stupid.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by Flagg »

Grumman wrote:
Flagg wrote:The story as told by family members and his attorneys you twat.
So because someone else retold his side of the story wrong, he's guilty? I'm with Aerius, that's stupid.
It goes to guilt. Every time something came out that would contradict something told by him or his surrogates the story would change.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by aerius »

Flagg wrote:
Grumman wrote:So because someone else retold his side of the story wrong, he's guilty? I'm with Aerius, that's stupid.
It goes to guilt. Every time something came out that would contradict something told by him or his surrogates the story would change.
Hey Flagg, guess what? I just caught you telling yet another lie you stupid asshole. George Zimmerman has NOT spoken with the media since this whole fiasco began, there are no stories or interviews told or given by Zimmerman relating to the case that are publicly available as of the time I write this. And you claim that the story as told by Zimmerman has changed when no such story exists in the first place. Congratulations, you're even more of a lying turd than the NBC producer who got shitcanned for falsifying the 911 tapes.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by Flagg »

You cut out "or his surrogates" and you're calling me a liar? :lol:
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by Dalton »

New photos are out taken with an iPhone just after the shooting. The one I saw had Zimmerman with bloody lacerations on his head.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by Flagg »

Yeah I've seen them and they aren't that bad. Head wounds bleed like a bitch, even minor ones.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

that is true, I've been clocked on the noggin many times.

twice by housecats, which really bleed.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Flagg wrote:Yeah I've seen them and they aren't that bad. Head wounds bleed like a bitch, even minor ones.
So, is your point that he isn't bleeding enough? How bad should it have been?
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by Flagg »

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Flagg wrote:Yeah I've seen them and they aren't that bad. Head wounds bleed like a bitch, even minor ones.
So, is your point that he isn't bleeding enough? How bad should it have been?

My point is that they aren't that bad. Maybe he shouldn't have been stalking Martin so the kid wouldn't have had to stand his ground and give him a couple boo-boos.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Flagg wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Flagg wrote:Yeah I've seen them and they aren't that bad. Head wounds bleed like a bitch, even minor ones.
So, is your point that he isn't bleeding enough? How bad should it have been?

My point is that they aren't that bad. Maybe he shouldn't have been stalking Martin so the kid wouldn't have had to stand his ground and give him a couple boo-boos.
And Zimmerman's counter point will likely be - (they aren't that bad because I shot him and stopped the threat.)

Sorry, Flagg. With those photographs Zimmerman now has a very strong self defense case.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by Flagg »

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Flagg wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote: So, is your point that he isn't bleeding enough? How bad should it have been?

My point is that they aren't that bad. Maybe he shouldn't have been stalking Martin so the kid wouldn't have had to stand his ground and give him a couple boo-boos.
And Zimmerman's counter point will likely be - (they aren't that bad because I shot him and stopped the threat.)

Sorry, Flagg. With those photographs Zimmerman now has a very strong self defense case.

Oh I agree. But it's only because the one attacked is dead now and can't tell his side of the story so we have to piece it together from earwitness accounts and sloppy forensics.

EDIT:
Sloppy due to rain, not necessarily poor police work.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Flagg wrote:
Oh I agree. But it's only because the one attacked is dead now and can't tell his side of the story so we have to piece it together from earwitness accounts and sloppy forensics.
**Nevermind. Misunderstanding...
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by Flagg »

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Flagg wrote:
Oh I agree. But it's only because the one attacked is dead now and can't tell his side of the story so we have to piece it together from earwitness accounts and sloppy forensics.
**Nevermind. Misunderstanding...

Couldn't think of the word "soggy" for some reason. :lol: :oops:
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by Cosmic Average »

Speaking of "soggy" evidence, but they've released some new information on the Trayvon Martin shooting.

Autopsy released. Trayvon had broken skin on his knuckles, indicating he punched someone. No other injuries aside from the single gunshot wound:
WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died.

The information could support George Zimmerman's claim that Martin beat him up before Zimmerman shot and killed him.

The autopsy results come as Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O’Mara continues to go over other evidence in the case.

O’Mara wouldn't comment on the autopsy evidence, but WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said it's better for the defense than it is for the prosecution.

WFTV has learned that the medical examiner found two injuries on Martin’s body: The fatal gunshot wound and broken skin on his knuckles.

When you compare Trayvon’s non-fatal injury with Zimmerman's bloody head wounds, the autopsy evidence is better for the defense, Sheaffer said.

“It goes along with Zimmerman's story that he acted in self-defense, because he was getting beaten up by Trayvon Martin,” Sheaffer said.

The injury to Martin’s knuckle also fits with Zimmerman's story that before he shot and killed Martin, Martin had broken his nose and knocked him to the ground, slamming his head on the sidewalk.
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Zimmerman's medical records released. He had a broken nose, black eyes, and lacerations to the back of his head:
According to a medical report from George Zimmerman's family physician, the neighborhood watch volunteer was diagnosed with lacerations to the back of his head, a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes and a minor back injury the day after his fatal confrontation with Trayvon Martin, ABC News reports.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by TheHammer »

Cosmic Average wrote:Speaking of "soggy" evidence, but they've released some new information on the Trayvon Martin shooting.

Autopsy released. Trayvon had broken skin on his knuckles, indicating he punched someone. No other injuries aside from the single gunshot wound:

WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died.

The information could support George Zimmerman's claim that Martin beat him up before Zimmerman shot and killed him.

The autopsy results come as Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O’Mara continues to go over other evidence in the case.

O’Mara wouldn't comment on the autopsy evidence, but WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said it's better for the defense than it is for the prosecution.

WFTV has learned that the medical examiner found two injuries on Martin’s body: The fatal gunshot wound and broken skin on his knuckles.

When you compare Trayvon’s non-fatal injury with Zimmerman's bloody head wounds, the autopsy evidence is better for the defense, Sheaffer said.

“It goes along with Zimmerman's story that he acted in self-defense, because he was getting beaten up by Trayvon Martin,” Sheaffer said.

The injury to Martin’s knuckle also fits with Zimmerman's story that before he shot and killed Martin, Martin had broken his nose and knocked him to the ground, slamming his head on the sidewalk.
Link

Zimmerman's medical records released. He had a broken nose, black eyes, and lacerations to the back of his head:
According to a medical report from George Zimmerman's family physician, the neighborhood watch volunteer was diagnosed with lacerations to the back of his head, a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes and a minor back injury the day after his fatal confrontation with Trayvon Martin, ABC News reports.
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I don't think anyone disputed there being a fight. The problem is that the medical examination was done the following day rather than the night of the incident, giving Zimmerman more than enough time to self inflict wounds to back up his self defense claim. I think that very point is being argued by Martin's family/lawyer.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by PeZook »

Well, the broken skin on Martin's knuckles is kinda hard to argue against.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by Cosmic Average »

TheHammer wrote:I don't think anyone disputed there being a fight. The problem is that the medical examination was done the following day rather than the night of the incident, giving Zimmerman more than enough time to self inflict wounds to back up his self defense claim. I think that very point is being argued by Martin's family/lawyer.
Police reports state that Zimmerman had blood on the back of his head the night of the incident. Photos taken moments after the shooting show that Zimmerman had bloody wounds to the back of his head. Video of Zimmerman in custody after the shooting show lacerations to the back of Zimmerman's head. Witnesses reported that they saw Trayvon straddling Zimmerman prior to the shooting.

Zimmerman stated, when the police arrived, that Trayvon was on top of him, bashing his head against the ground. Trayvon's knuckles were bruised and bloody, indicating he had been striking someone. It all lines up with Zimmerman's version of events.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by TheHammer »

Cosmic Average wrote:
TheHammer wrote:I don't think anyone disputed there being a fight. The problem is that the medical examination was done the following day rather than the night of the incident, giving Zimmerman more than enough time to self inflict wounds to back up his self defense claim. I think that very point is being argued by Martin's family/lawyer.
Police reports state that Zimmerman had blood on the back of his head the night of the incident. Photos taken moments after the shooting show that Zimmerman had bloody wounds to the back of his head. Video of Zimmerman in custody after the shooting show lacerations to the back of Zimmerman's head. Witnesses reported that they saw Trayvon straddling Zimmerman prior to the shooting.

Zimmerman stated, when the police arrived, that Trayvon was on top of him, bashing his head against the ground. Trayvon's knuckles were bruised and bloody, indicating he had been striking someone. It all lines up with Zimmerman's version of events.
What police report are you citing? The one and only report I've seen made no specific mention of any injuries to Zimmerman. Trayvon's knuckles were listed as scraped not "bruised and bloody" as you contend.

I don't think anyone is disputing that a fight took place. The question is who started it and was Zimmerman truly in a position to "fear for his life". The Medical report would be much more reliable had it actually be done the night it happened.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by Cosmic Average »

TheHammer wrote:What police report are you citing? The one and only report I've seen made no specific mention of any injuries to Zimmerman. Trayvon's knuckles were listed as scraped not "bruised and bloody" as you contend.
Then you didn't look hard enough.
The original police report that night notes that the back of Zimmerman's head was wet, and that he was bleeding from the nose and head.
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Re: Trayvon Martin Case (Zimmerman charged; 2nd deg. murder)

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

The lack of photographs is bad. It's typical to obtain several photographs of persons involved in an assault. Taking just one photograph of a person involved in a homicide is probably the most serious issue I have with the mistakes made during the investigation. However, the narrative of the police report is not worthless and it does mention Zimmerman's face being bloody so I think the medical report is likely reliable.

Also, the only time someone has to be examined at the hospital is when they're going to be booked into jail. Zimmerman was not booked into jail and thus it was HIS choice if and when he is evaluated by a doctor.
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