Bin Laden's wife 'betrayed him'

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Supreme_Warlord
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Bin Laden's wife 'betrayed him'

Post by Supreme_Warlord »

Pakistani brigadier suggests Bin Laden was retired and possibly senile when he was killed and that his eldest wife betrayed him
The Guardian wrote:Pakistani authorities have charged the three wives of Osama bin Laden with illegally entering and living in the country, as an independent investigation into the al-Qaida leader's final days found that his eldest wife was suspected by the other two of betraying him.

The three wives have been in custody since they were left behind last May when a US raiding party found and killed Bin Laden in the northern town of Abbottabad. They had been expected to be freed but it was announced by the interior minister on Thursday that they would be charged with immigration offences.

The news came as an independent investigation by a retired Pakistani brigadier, Shaukat Qadir, claimed that Bin Laden was living in effective retirement in Abbottabad and may even have been senile.

Qadir is known to be close to Pakistan's current army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, who arranged several visits for him to the Abbottabad compound, which has been cordoned off by security forces since the US operation. The Abbottabad house was suddenly demolished, without explanation, by the Pakistani authorities late last month.

Using transcripts of the interrogation of Bin Laden's wives and interviews with Pakistani intelligence officials, Qadir pieced together the most comprehensive account yet of the al-Qaida leader's life after he fled the Tora Bora mountains of Afghanistan in late 2001. According to Qadir, Bin Laden may have had a kidney transplant back in 2002, which would explain why his known kidney ailment did not require him to undergo dialysis treatment while on the run.

There were 27 people, including bodyguards and members of Bin Laden's extended family living in the house when the al-Qaida leader was killed. They had all got on well until the arrival of Khairiah Sabar in early 2011, Qadir said.

"When Khairiah came, everybody else was very suspicious of her. They didn't trust her at all," Qadir told the Guardian. "I am also of the view that actually the person who sold him [Bin Laden] out was Khairiah, not the fictitious courier who the US keeps talking about being al-Kuwaiti."

"Everything begins to happen with her arrival. Until then, the Americans seem to know nothing."


Qadir's account is at odds with the leaked US official story, which contends that they found the Abbottabad house when they followed an al-Qaida "courier" known as al-Kuwaiti to the home, some time in the second half of 2011.

Khairiah, a Saudi who Bin Laden married in 1985 as the third of his six wives, was freed from Iranian custody in 2010 as part of a murky exchange for an Iranian diplomat who had been kidnapped by extremists in Pakistan.

Aged around 62, she made her way without her children to Abbottabad on Bin Laden's instructions. The other two wives, Siham, a Saudi aged around 54, who had three adult children with her, and Amal, a Yemeni aged around 31, who had five young children, had lived with Bin Laden since he moved into the Abbottabad home in mid-2005. They had also been with him for periods at other hiding places in Pakistan after 2001.

"Bin Laden didn't sleep with any of his other wives after marrying Amal," said Qadir.

At one point, when pressed by Siham's adult son Khalid about why she had come, Khairiah said it was because she had "one final duty" to perform for Bin Laden. It seems that even Bin Laden feared that she would turn him in, and he "kept telling" the other two wives to leave, but they refused, Qadir said.

Despite being apparently cured of kidney failure, Bin Laden was suffering from a degenerative disease, which caused premature senility, Qadir said. As a result, al-Qaida's "shura", or leadership council, sent him into early retirement around 2003 in Pakistan.

Others think that Bin Laden stayed active, as the organisation's spiritual guide and may have been involved in planning details of al-Qaida attacks in the west. But Qadir's theory could explain images that emerged on video tapes found at the Abbottabad house, in which Bin Laden is seen sitting on the floor watching television with childlike fascination.


The Qadir investigation places Bin Laden in South Waziristan, in the tribal area close to the Afghan border, in the early years after 2001. He later travelled back into Afghanistan and then, in 2004, he made his way into northern Pakistan, to the Swat area. Following that, after a few months further south in Haripur district, he eventually moved into the purpose-built Abbottabad home in May 2005.

The Bin Laden wives have never been involved with al-Qaida. Last year, Pakistan's official commission investigating the al-Qaida leader's presence in the country recommended that the wives and children be sent home.

It is not known what has now made Pakistan charge them with the relatively trivial issue of not having a visa, though it was thought that the Saudi authorities, who wield enormous influence in Islamabad, were not keen to take back their citizens.

The wives and children are being held at a house somewhere undisclosed in Islamabad. Rehman Malik, Pakistan's interior minister, said the home would now function as a sub-jail.

"They are being kept in a proper legal manner," said Malik.
Wonder if the truth about this will ever come out.
"Bin Laden didn't sleep with any of his other wives after marrying Amal," said Qadir.
If this is true, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!
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100th post on Wed, 28 Apr, 2004 15:23
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Re: Bin Laden's wife 'betrayed him'

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Well, some of it might concerning his health, since a kidney transplant scar would most likely have been noticed in the autopsy, and its pretty likely that blood samples were frozen that might have been viable for testing for certain diseases.

As for the rest, well, whatever information the US has is bound to be released some day in the far future but if anyone will really believe it, I dunno. If one of his wives who has children did turn him in it'd be a powerful incentive to keep it secret for many decades to protect them from revenge. However its kind of hard for me to think someone staying in the same house would do it, kind of asking to die since how would she know the US won't just drop a bomb on them all or frag every room clearing it. Also Pakistan has a strong political angle to push a betrayal story like that, rather then a courier, because if it was active courier it makes the Pakistani intelligence service even more incompetent (at best). They look better if 'nothing' was actually happening that they could have detected.
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Re: Bin Laden's wife 'betrayed him'

Post by CJvR »

Well that is one way of getting a divorce in a sharia enviroment...
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Re: Bin Laden's wife 'betrayed him'

Post by mr friendly guy »

Sea Skimmer wrote:Well, some of it might concerning his health, since a kidney transplant scar would most likely have been noticed in the autopsy, and its pretty likely that blood samples were frozen that might have been viable for testing for certain diseases.
.
Not to mention that a transplanted kidney is usually implanted very superficial, unlike your original kidney which is retroperitoneal. In other words, a transplanted kidney is easy to feel by touching the abdomen, its a big lump there.

Of course its not quite a simple as just getting a new kidney, end of story. Even if a great match, its stock standard practice to take anti rejection drugs, some of which I would imagine are very hard to get whilst he was still hiding in Afghanistan before he moved into Pakistan.
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Re: Bin Laden's wife 'betrayed him'

Post by Simon_Jester »

Although bin Laden had money and considerable connections, so if anyone could get them, he could...

Personally, I just find it very unlikely that he was in 'effective retirement' at the age of around 55, even given that he may have been in bad health because of the kidney thing.
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Re: Bin Laden's wife 'betrayed him'

Post by Sidewinder »

I'm reminded of Pakistani claims that a laser was used to assassinate Benazir Bhutto, that the Pakistanis are making bullshit claims and talking conspiracy theories as a way of saying, "It wasn't our fault! We didn't do it!"
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
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Re: Bin Laden's wife 'betrayed him'

Post by mr friendly guy »

There is lots of speculation about what medical conditions Bin Laden had or did not have. As well as the kidney disease it was also suggested he had Addison's disease. Thats an interesting one to have survived for so long without medical treatment, which are steroids (for the glucocorticoid effect) plus fludrocortisone (for the mineralocorticoid effect). Theoretically you can use high dose steroids which will also cover the mineralocorticoid effect, but prolong use will have side effects, which is why we don't use it in Addison's except in acute attacks. If OBL did that take high dose steroids it would be obvious looking at him. It gives a characteristic appearance after prolong use described as Cushingoid, and the videos of him huddling down watching television doesn't look like it.
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Re: Bin Laden's wife 'betrayed him'

Post by Simon_Jester »

Again, bin Laden wasn't short on money and had at least a few trusted couriers, so I doubt it would be that hard for him to get ahold of the necessary medicines. Much easier than a kidney transplant, really, because you don't need a trustworthy surgeon, just a trustworthy courier.
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Re: Bin Laden's wife 'betrayed him'

Post by SpaceMarine93 »

So the US did not kill an evil genius and head of a secretive religiously fanatical terrorist organization as they believed, but a senile, broken old man who was considered by the very group he founded to be useless?

...

Well, considering what Bin Laden did, I suppose that's still a good payback as any.
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Re: Bin Laden's wife 'betrayed him'

Post by Simon_Jester »

Had it occurred to you to consider that the Pakistanis might be lying?
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Re: Bin Laden's wife 'betrayed him'

Post by Aaron MkII »

What difference does it make? It was always about revenge and if it had come out that he was a dottering old fool, I bet the populace would still want his head and Obama would have done it anyways.
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Re: Bin Laden's wife 'betrayed him'

Post by Chirios »

Simon_Jester wrote:Had it occurred to you to consider that the Pakistanis might be lying?
More likely that some conspiracy theorists are just paranoid and wrong.
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Re: Bin Laden's wife 'betrayed him'

Post by Simon_Jester »

Yes, that's actually probably more likely: paranoid and wrong conspiracy theorists.

I'm not sure it'd 'make a difference' in terms of US policy, and you can draw what conclusions from that you wish, but I don't think it's true- for what that's worth given that the commando raid would probably have gone through regardless.
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Re: Bin Laden's wife 'betrayed him'

Post by Kanastrous »

There may be some minor utility to promoting the idea that, no, you can no longer pull a Mahdi, climb into a hole, pull it in after yourself, and feel confident that one long arm or another won't find you. Although it would only impress people whose philosophy doesn't embrace suicide for the cause.
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