Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

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Baffalo
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Baffalo »

Faqa wrote:Except that I'll wager that in cases that evilsoup is thinking of, we do pretty much know why Timmy wouldn't give you a copy - he can't be fucked to just now. Maybe later, if it's not too hard. Whenever he gets around to it. And it's not personal to you - the friends he gave it to just happened to be the closest people. Also, Timmy knows you'd like a copy. But, you know, whatever, he'll get around to it whenever. Maybe. And it might not even be the same diary, but some version copied by Bob, who has bad handwriting, and lives 30 miles further away than Georgie.

In that case, I find it quite a bit harder to condemn taking up Georgie on his offer. Yes, Timmy still has the right to not make you a copy of the diary - but he's treating you fairly shabbily to begin with.
Timmy's a dick and he damn well knows it.

The problem with a diary in this example is that it's not something made for monetary gain, unlike the software and entertainment media. In this case, yes, Timmy did make it and he made copies. HOWEVER... he never filed for a copyright because he's a lazy prick. Yeah Timmy, I said it, whatcha gonna do about it ya little bitch? Anyway, had he pursued a copyright just for the sakes of keeping it all to himself (the selfish good for nothing) then he has every right (hence the key word in copyRIGHT) to dictate exactly how it's handled and distributed. If he wants to charge money then for you to get a copy, that's his right. However, without a copyright and without dictating to his friends that they cannot make copies, then what if Bob with the bad handwriting (Mrs. Warner is very disappointed Bob. She taught you better than that) could take Timmy's work, copyright it himself, and then tell everyone "If you give away Timmy's diary, I have the right to sue you." Now, is that fair to Timmy? Yes, but only because he's a little asshole. If it were anyone else, no. Because then it's not the author who's making the money for their work, it's now Bob.

Now suppose Tina (I like Tina better because she's cute) writes a story, but doesn't have a home printer. She copyrights it, but then gives it to Greg and asking him to make copies and give them out. Suppose Greg makes the copies, but then charges people a quarter to read it, claiming that it's to cover the expense of printing, and then out of that quarter, gives Tina a penny, even though the cost of printing was only ten cents? In this case, it's Greg making the money, with Tina making very little despite doing the hard work of actually producing the story. Or suppose they're all in a creative writing class and the teacher tells them that they must each write a story containing unique elements like robots or ninjas. Let's say Greg goes first (Because Greg's an asshole like Timmy) and Greg announces his grand story will include ninjas, dragons, unicorns, vampires, werewolves, zombies, Frankenstein's monster, pirates, cowboys, horses, princesses, castles, spaceships, aliens and a partridge in a pear tree. Now, that leaves very little for the others to work with but he'll gladly let them use any element... provided they pay him for the privilege. Otherwise, the teacher knows he's claimed everything. So if Tina wants to include unicorns, princesses and castles, she'll have to pay Greg for the right to use them.

Isn't metaphor fun?
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by RedImperator »

Baffalo wrote:Are you serious? Think about why that's stupid for a moment... when someone says "Hold on while I google it" do you think an executive at Google freaks out? Having your name out there so that it's so common people automatically know of it IS A GOOD THING! I heard the expression "You could be selling five dollar bills for a nickel but unless they know about it, it's not worth a thing". Culture is something that changes constantly, but being able to, even for the briefest time, have people saying your name and automatically know what your product is NEVER HURTS!
I send you to the local Walgreens for "aspirin, Kleenex, Band-Aids, and Wite Out" (I'm having a party). You return with Walgreens brand aspirin, a box of Puffs facial tissue, Curad adhesive bandages, and Liquid Paper correction fluid. I thank you for doing me a favor and let you go back to making terrible poasts on SDN while I use CorelDRAW to photoshop the invitations.

See what just happened there? The actual holders of those trademarks* didn't make any money, but hey, I'm sure Bayer, Kleenex, Johnson and Johnson, and Bic are just thrilled people are saying their products' names and automatically knowing what they are, am I not correct? It's not like they invested millions of dollars and year of effort and intellectual capital into those trademarks or anything.

*Aspirin is not trademarked in the United States, because the Allies forced Bayer to give up its trademark after World War I, which ought to tell you something about the value of trademarks if they can be offered up as fucking war reparations.
The problem with a diary in this example is that it's not something made for monetary gain, unlike the software and entertainment media. In this case, yes, Timmy did make it and he made copies. HOWEVER... he never filed for a copyright because he's a lazy prick. Yeah Timmy, I said it, whatcha gonna do about it ya little bitch? Anyway, had he pursued a copyright just for the sakes of keeping it all to himself (the selfish good for nothing) then he has every right (hence the key word in copyRIGHT) to dictate exactly how it's handled and distributed.
Copyright automatically attaches to the work as soon as it's set down in a permanent medium. This is, like, Copyright 101. You may actually be utterly unqualified to speak on this topic.
However, without a copyright and without dictating to his friends that they cannot make copies, then what if Bob with the bad handwriting (Mrs. Warner is very disappointed Bob. She taught you better than that) could take Timmy's work, copyright it himself, and then tell everyone "If you give away Timmy's diary, I have the right to sue you." Now, is that fair to Timmy? Yes, but only because he's a little asshole. If it were anyone else, no. Because then it's not the author who's making the money for their work, it's now Bob.
This scenario is completely impossible and also your jokes aren't very good.
Now suppose Tina (I like Tina better because she's cute) writes a story, but doesn't have a home printer. She copyrights it, but then gives it to Greg and asking him to make copies and give them out. Suppose Greg makes the copies, but then charges people a quarter to read it, claiming that it's to cover the expense of printing, and then out of that quarter, gives Tina a penny, even though the cost of printing was only ten cents? In this case, it's Greg making the money, with Tina making very little despite doing the hard work of actually producing the story.
As this scenario is literally constructed, Greg has no right to charge anyone money for the story--it is the equivilant of me taking a manuscrip to a print shop and coming back a week later with a U-Haul to pick up the books. Tina would owe whatever their agreed-upon fee for Greg's services were; Greg would not be entitled to a share of the cover price. If this scenario is read as a metaphor for publishing industry practice, 1) publishers do a lot more for an author than print and distribute the books, 2) 4% is half a typical author's take from the cover price, and 3) publishing industry treatment of authors is not material to a critique of copyright (and call me crazy, but I don't think in a copyright-free libertopia, authors would actually make out any better).
Let's say Greg goes first (Because Greg's an asshole like Timmy) and Greg announces his grand story will include ninjas, dragons, unicorns, vampires, werewolves, zombies, Frankenstein's monster, pirates, cowboys, horses, princesses, castles, spaceships, aliens and a partridge in a pear tree. Now, that leaves very little for the others to work with but he'll gladly let them use any element... provided they pay him for the privilege. Otherwise, the teacher knows he's claimed everything. So if Tina wants to include unicorns, princesses and castles, she'll have to pay Greg for the right to use them.
This is not how copyright works. You cannot copyright the concept of a "castle".
Isn't metaphor fun?
Here's a metaphor: Baffalo's posts are so bad, it's like they were written by a howler monkey who's been huffing Liquid Paper brand correction fluid.

Oops, that was a simile.
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Gigaliel »

Sure is a lot of legalism = morality in this topic.
Lagmonster wrote:
evilsoup wrote:Isn't the point of copyright to allow artists to make a profit off their work? If they aren't willing to sell copies, I don't really see how one can object to piracy - the creator isn't losing anything materially.
When people say things like this, I start wondering if they were taught the Golden Rule as children.

Let's say Timmy writes a diary. For whatever reason, doesn't really matter why, he made copies of it for some pals. Timmy didn't give you a copy, again for whatever reason, but Georgie is willing to make you a copy of his copy. If you aren't a dick, you will say "No thanks, because Timmy didn't say I could have it, and I'm grown up enough to respect other people's wishes". Just like that, and of your own free fucking will. You don't have to know what you can and cannot do - you only have to know when you're being a dick.
I would agree it would be somewhat dickish but how bad is it? What magnitude of immorality are we talking here?

Is it worth crippling $10,000 settlements? For a crime where participants do not profit from the sale of or theft of these works? Is that moral? I don't think it is.

The real question here is are copyright laws a positive force in our society? Considering SOPA and the other hilariously draconian laws copyright holders try to pass, I'm going with "no".
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Stark »

Are you saying stupid laws that try to stop the piracy people in this thread are literally gloating about are bad... And not the piracy that breaks laws and requires further powers for enforcement?

There's a middle ground between freetards and lawyers; that middle ground is not 'copyright sucks lol'.
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by someone_else »

Are you saying stupid laws that try to stop the piracy people in this thread are literally gloating about are bad... And not the piracy that breaks laws and requires further powers for enforcement?
There is still the point that a significant part of "pirated stuff" won't really translate in "products bought if piracy wasn't an option". like this

So while it's illegal and evil, more often than not, it does not actually turn into a MASSIVE LOSS OF PROFITS like most (movie and music at least) companies believe. And avoiding "loss of profits" is the point of the law, stuff being an evil act is and has always been irrelevant.

I remember that stuff Shroom posted about chinese-made DVD player ripoffs playing chinese-made pirated DVDs of movies that people can actually buy and use, whereas the original would cost too damn much for them anyway.
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Gigaliel »

Stark wrote:Are you saying stupid laws that try to stop the piracy people in this thread are literally gloating about are bad... And not the piracy that breaks laws and requires further powers for enforcement?
Well the former is destructive to people's rights and the latter may or may not reduce an artist's profit margins. The former is waaaaaay worse than the latter in my opinion.

Also constant emphasis on the law breaking aspect is a bit silly. Breaking the law isn't inherently wrong (although not recommended).
There's a middle ground between freetards and lawyers; that middle ground is not 'copyright sucks lol'.
Do you happen to have any examples? The existence of an open internet means that intellectual property will be shared freely, so I don't really see any solutions that could be called 'copyright'.

Even a drastic change such as having art enter the public domain after 2 years doesn't really address the issue. Top torrents are typical box office movies or just aired TV episodes.
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Baffalo »

Here's a metaphor: Baffalo's posts are so bad, it's like they were written by a howler monkey who's been huffing Liquid Paper brand correction fluid.

Oops, that was a simile.
Hey! I take offense to that. I prefer to think I'm more like a spider monkey. :mrgreen:

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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Stark »

Gigaliel wrote:Do you happen to have any examples? The existence of an open internet means that intellectual property will be shared freely, so I don't really see any solutions that could be called 'copyright'.
.
Do you understand what copyright is for and what it protects and encourages? The issue is a tiny bit wider and more important than GIMME GIMME GIMME. And sorry, saying shit like 'Internet = no intellectual property rights' is just amazingly stupid and narrow-minded. It's like saying 'if it's possible to steal, nobody owns anything'.

Maybe you could try not being a criminal. :lol:
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Gigaliel »

Stark wrote:Do you understand what copyright is for and what it protects and encourages? The issue is a tiny bit wider and more important than GIMME GIMME GIMME. And sorry, saying shit like 'Internet = no intellectual property rights' is just amazingly stupid and narrow-minded. It's like saying 'if it's possible to steal, nobody owns anything'.
Copyright exists to protect the profits and livelihood of content creators? And we have these laws because more content is created with it than without it? Am I missing something?

Also you're not really addressing my arguments? The point isn't giving people free stuff. It's that the law is being used to bully and crush people with ludicrous settlements. It creates incentives for media conglomerates to strangle civil liberties and, with their most recent legislation, destructive changes to internet infrastructure.

And, again, the situation is not like theft. Copyright infringement is far, far easier and does not deprive anyone of anything beyond the theoretical profits of people who would have bought it if they couldn't pirate it. This also ignores the people who pirated it and then bought the game/album/movie/whatever to support the creators who would have otherwise never touched it, but that is not the focus of my argument.
Maybe you could try not being a criminal. :lol:
Mindless legalism ITT.
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by weemadando »

Gigaliel wrote:
Stark wrote:
Maybe you could try not being a criminal. :lol:
Mindless legalism ITT.
ITT babies don't want to admit to being criminals.

WAH! WAH! WAH! EVERYTHING I WANT ISN'T AVAILABLE TO ME AT THIS MOMENT SO I WILL STEAL IT AS I DESERVE ACCESS TO EVERYTHING I WANT!

I'd feel some measure of sympathy if we were talking about "I'm stealing food because my family can't afford to eat" rather than "I'm stealing pirating the latest sci-fi movie because the Blu Ray isn't out in my region yet". Hell, if we were talking about patents or something where you could at least go: "I'm stealing pirating the cure for cancer that this company is not sharing because they own patents for chemo and radiotherapy processes" we could at least accept it's a noble cause or something. But it's not.

We are not talking about essentials of life here. We're talking about the most luxurious of first world luxuries. So please, tell me why you think that you can possibly hold a moral high ground no matter how repugnant and backwards the system trying to protect IP is?
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Stark »

Repugnant ... For all that 'securing a profit motive for the actual development of what we want to pirate' way I guess. :v

It's pretty funny that I ended up on this end of this kind of thing, because I don't really see piracy as a huge problem in general (as seen in the dozens of wah wah piracy gaming threads). It's just terrifyingly lame the lengths people will go to to JUSTIFY their selfishness or ignorance. Just admit it; you're pirates. That's a bad thing, and ironically a reason more producers dont engage with digital distribution.
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by weemadando »

Stark wrote:Repugnant ... For all that 'securing a profit motive for the actual development of what we want to pirate' way I guess. :v

It's pretty funny that I ended up on this end of this kind of thing, because I don't really see piracy as a huge problem in general (as seen in the dozens of wah wah piracy gaming threads). It's just terrifyingly lame the lengths people will go to to JUSTIFY their selfishness or ignorance. Just admit it; you're pirates. That's a bad thing, and ironically a reason more producers dont engage with digital distribution.
I'm in the same boat. I really get shitted off by the old methods and systems in place which hold it all back and the obnoxious abuse of legal process.

But hey. Illegal stuff is illegal. I don't think a lot of drugs should be illegal, but hey, they are. So guess what, don't do 'em folks. Or if you do, you don't get to complain.
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Stark »

It's even arguable that widespread piracy (whether in China or the internets) does suggest the need for a new approach to securing returns on intellectual property .... But saying HAHA INTERNET = OWNERS HAVE NO RIGHTS is a really, really bad way to get anyone to embrace them.

It's almost like people aren't just greedy and selfish; they're bent on appearing intelligent and informed even though they have no intention of working with stakeholders to create a solution. Just GIMME GIMME GIMME OR I GON TAKE IT ANYHOW. :lol:
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Sky Captain »

I don't think all piracy is equal.
For example if I download the latest Mythbusters espisode I missed because I was at work - no harm done, nobody looses any money. It's really no different than setting my TV set to record the episode into external HDD and watch it when it is more convenient.

If I download the latest Modern Warfare game I would have otherwise bought then yes, you can define it as stealing because company just lost one sold copy.

Another example - downloading an album is piracy. What about making the youtube playlist from songs someone has already uploaded and listening to that album on youtube?

Downloading a movie and then deciding it is actualy worth to see it on big screen - company who made the movie actually got more money because otherwise I wouldn't bothered with that movie. The same can be said about downloading an album and then realizing it is actualy so good that it is worth to atttend the concert when artist in question comes to my country.
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Lagmonster »

Do you ever think, "I should respect the wishes of other people if I expect them to respect mine."? A creator may prefer, or perhaps intend, that copy ownership or even viewership only go to people who meet specific criteria - could be "my family", could be "paying customers", whatever. Their shit, their rules. Other times, maybe they don't give a shit what happens to copies at all. But if they do, and you don't meet that criteria, it strikes me that the right thing to do is to voluntarily put your desires aside and opt the fuck out.
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Faqa »

We know their criteria - "paying customers". And in many cases, the people pirating have no real way of becoming "paying customers", for whatever reason. Despite the fact that it would be mutually beneficial to offer them a way to meet that criteria.

Like in your previous scenario - the technical right to keep things that way is theirs. Their right to respect for their wishes, however, just plummeted.
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Sharp-kun »

I've no problem with using "piracy" for convenience.

I'm out Saturday evenings most weeks, so I miss Dr Who. I tend to torrent it rather than catch it on iPlayer as itmeans I've got a copy I can keep, much like how I used to tape them when I was a kid. Rather than a VHS tape that'll get torn up some day I've got it on my PC. Piracy? Probably. Harm or lost money, no. No more than if I'd dug out the old VHS recorder and set a timer.

We have a get together with friends every week to watch various TV shows/films. One week someone had forgotten the Blu-Ray for the next part of the series. No problem! To Rapidshare! Happy evening for all. Piracy? Yes. Harm or lost money? No. Made even better by the fact that it was the industry guy that downloaded it.

Lagmonster wrote:But if they do, and you don't meet that criteria, it strikes me that the right thing to do is to voluntarily put your desires aside and opt the fuck out.
Hope you've never imported anything. There's a reason its not available in your country - you don't meet the "criteria".
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by darthdavid »

Firstly, I think it's important to look at the types of piracy that occur. The first would be the kind media companies like to lump all piracy into, where the pirate would say "If there was no piracy I'd have bought this.". The second and third types are the kind that most pirates like to point to "If there was no piracy I would have just done without it." and "If there was no piracy I wouldn't have bought it because I wouldn't have gotten to 'try it out' first.". Let's call them types 1, 2 and 3 for convenience. Type 1 directly harms the finances of content creators. Type 2 has no net effect beyond the pirate being able to enjoy something they otherwise wouldn't have (whether that's a good or bad thing is fairly subjective so I won't even get into it). Type 3 helps content creators because the pirate's positive experience with no cash on the line translated into a sale. The net effect of piracy on any given industry would therefore depend on what the ratio of these three types of piracy actually is, but it obviously isn't a clear-cut loss as certain people are in the habit of claiming.

Now, let's look at copyright law and enforcement. It was, IIRC, originally a 14 year term, with the intention of being something that would encourage people to produce and release creative works so that they would ultimately benefit the public by transitioning into the public domain when those 14 years were up. This is, obviously, not how it works anymore. Copyright is now de facto indefinite thanks to the constant extensions that Disney's bribed donated into existence in order to keep Steamboat Willie out of the public domain. This means media companies get to have their cake and eat it too. They get the legal protections of copyright law without the cost of having to release their work into the public domain after a reasonable period or, like, ever (for the record, I don't much care if it's actually 14 years, that's basically just an arbitrary number, but this lifetime+x shit is obnoxious and needs to stop). Now that would be annoying enough but nothing really catastrophic if it just stopped there however, the current enforcement tactics go beyond the pale. Indiscriminate shakedowns protection rackets lawsuits (often against people who didn't even actually pirate anything), censorship mandating treaties that would basically break the internet, massive 'campaign donations', the list goes on.

It's pretty obvious that the proposed cure is worse than the disease. And is generally not very effective either (see the subject of this thread). I do think content creators should have legally protected rights, but to be honest if it came down to a choice between that and a free and open internet I'd choose the latter in a heartbeat. People will make art no matter what, the internet is an amazing creation and to see it gutted over something like this would be a tragedy.
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by madd0ct0r »

type 4 - if it wasn't for piracy i wouldn't be able to get this, AND i can't do without easily.

eg Autocad is not distributed in Vietnam. so how do you get a copy to do your job?
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by someone_else »

Stark wrote:But saying HAHA INTERNET = OWNERS HAVE NO RIGHTS is a really, really bad way to get anyone to embrace them.
Technicaly speaking, that's more of the statement of a fact. If they embrace or not is irrelevant. If it has any kind of success it gets pirated or ripped off. Period. It's just like rule 34. Works like that even with fucking perfumes, shoes and fashion stuff.

It's their futile attempts to try to stop piracy that are amusing. They should try a different approach than HAMMER ON THEM WITH POLICE, since that does not work for a problem of this scale. I doubt if that would work with any problem, but anyway.
It's almost like people aren't just greedy and selfish; they're bent on appearing intelligent and informed even though they have no intention of working with stakeholders to create a solution.
Yeah, because the ones owning the rights will surely want to find a pacific solution where everyone is satisfied. They won't just ignore the minority.
Lagmonster wrote:Do you ever think, "I should respect the wishes of other people if I expect them to respect mine."
Expecting everyone to be moral is kinda childish. The same greed that fuels the company's idiotic policies about selling their stuff is the greed that fuels the people pirating their stuff.
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Pendleton »

Remember, folks. It's the pirates that are the big problem.

Really, these people don't make it easy to sympathise (especially with still using the stupid "property was stolen" argument from ignorance).

There was a good discussion on Reddit a while back about solving the issue with film distribution online by employing a Steam delivery system. As someone who has used Steam, iTunes, Netflix, Lovefilm, Amazon and Play as well as the PSN Store for their legal purchases, I can't help but feel there are way too many conservative, profiteering arses in the industry retarding progress which they simply will not understand. Ironically, they'd probably make more money and cheaper, if they pulled their fingers out and made a proper, zero exclusivity system to hawk their virtual wares.
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Todeswind »

Sharp-kun wrote:Hope you've never imported anything. There's a reason its not available in your country - you don't meet the "criteria".
Or the company simply hasn't been able to afford to export it on a large scale yet, or they simply aren't interested in going through the effort, or they haven't considered it as a possibility. Not being able to acquire something locally doesn't mean a creator can't want to to go there "ever," only that they aren't there yet. Moreover importing a game necessitates that the game have been purchased from the creator at some point ( bootlegs being the notable exception). I doubt that a distributer gives two shits where I mail my DvDs once I've purchased them and he got my money, so long as I'm not making copies.
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Formless »

Todeswind wrote:I doubt that a distributer gives two shits where I mail my DvDs once I've purchased them and he got my money, so long as I'm not making copies.
This actually reinforces Sharp-kun's point. This is the reason Copyright is not about "control" as so many people in this thread have asserted. Once you have published something (whether a book, album, film, or whatever) you are releasing it to the public to consume or use. That's the definition of publish. Anyone who owns a copy of it is allowed to do what they want with it, as long as they do not copy it or make copies derived from it and its contents. That's the sole monopoly copyright grants-- the right to say who can and cannot make or distribute copies of the IP or make and distribute derivative works using the IP. Private owners are allowed to sell on secondary markets, lend them to friends, give them away, etc. and none of this counts as distributing it because no copies have been made, and no derivative works have been made with its contents.

So to use the hypothetical with Timmy and his diary, it does not apply to copyright for the following two reasons. First of all that is not the same as publishing. That is more similar to a private communique, and Timmy has a right to privacy. Second of all, Georgie may not make a copy, but he can give you his copy. Indeed, in the not impossible case that Timmy decided not to give you a copy because he was shitting all over your reputation, Georgie would be a dick not to tell you about it for precisely that reason.

If you really want to give artists, writers, and other content producers more control over their work, maybe you should be advocating more IP industries adopt some form of the Creator's Bill Of Rights.
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Sriad
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Sriad »

Stark wrote:That's a bad thing, and ironically a reason more producers dont engage with digital distribution.
The reason more producers don't engage with digital distribution is that they're fucking morons who don't understand that any content whatsoever that is representable via 1s and 0s can be pirated fairly easily.

There are many examples of artists going over the heads of conventional distribution, greatly to their profit.

Louis CK's DRM free show that made over a million dollars, Radiohead's last several albums, a number of other artists too small to make the news--my last several records have been DRM free direct online purchases-- and more control heavy distribution methods like Steam, which makes buying games easier than pirating them.

What we see most clearly in both the real world and threads like these is that ineffectual enforcement of laws helps lead to contempt of the ideas those laws are supposed to encompass and the law in general. See prohibition/the war on drugs, tax evasion, obscenity, etc.

Obstinant content providers aren't at fault, but if they want to stay above water they need to adapt to the instant gratification environment. Even if I don't pirate their shit that's only available during piracy there's a pretty good chance that, unless it's something I'm already a fan of, I'll do one of the billion other interesting instantly available entertainment options and forget all about them.
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Re: Pirate Bay: Now imposible to destroy

Post by Lagmonster »

Gigaliel wrote:
Lagmonster wrote:You don't have to know what you can and cannot do - you only have to know when you're being a dick.
I would agree it would be somewhat dickish but how bad is it? What magnitude of immorality are we talking here?
You're overcomplicating the issue. Either you respect the wishes of other people, or you don't. In cases where you don't, presumably your rationalization makes sense to you, but if both parties haven't agreed to it, you're being a dick. A few people have already pointed out that they don't mind breaking the Golden Rule in cases where they feel no measurable harm has been done. And that's between them and their conscience. I've ignored the golden rule for self gain before, no shit, we all have. But I try to acknowledge when I'm not showing the other person the respect that I'd want from them.
Note: I'm semi-retired from the board, so if you need something, please be patient.
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