Iran shoots down US drone

[R.O.A]

http://news.yahoo.com/iran-military-sho ... 04389.html

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran's military said on Sunday it had shot down a U.S. reconnaissance drone aircraft in eastern Iran, a military source told state television.

"Iran's military has downed an intruding RQ-170 American drone in eastern Iran," Iran's Arabic-language Al Alam state television network quoted the unnamed source as saying.

"The spy drone, which has been downed with little damage, was seized by the Iranian armed forces."

Iran shot down the drone at a time when it is trying to contain foreign reaction to the storming of the British embassy in Tehran on Tuesday, shortly after London announced that it would impose sanctions on Iran's central bank in connection with Iran's controversial nuclear enrichment program.

Britain evacuated its diplomatic staff from Iran and expelled Iranian diplomats in London in retaliation, and several other EU members recalled their ambassadors from Tehran.

The attack dragged Iran's relations with Europe to a long-time low.

Washington and EU countries have been discussing measures to restrict Iran's oil exports since the United Nations nuclear watchdog issued a report in November with what it said was evidence that Tehran had worked on designing an atom bomb.

Iran says its nuclear program is entirely peaceful.

Is there any way to confirm/deny that this happened? I did not think that they would have been able to pull this off.

[Mr Bean]

Why do you think it's unlikely, we fly drones along Iraq's and A-Stan's borders all the time which means two sides of Iran have drones on them. Said drones wander over and along the countries borders all the time. Drones are designed for stealth and being able to loiter over targets not dodge air to air missiles or the quad 23mms of a ZSU or derivative. However the fact that it "has been downed with little damage" says more likely than being shot down there was an engine or control failure that simply dropped the thing in Iranian territory.

[Vendetta]

Is there any way to confirm/deny that this happened? I did not think that they would have been able to pull this off.

Spy drones are generally best protected by being hard to find in the first place. If the Iranians got lucky and spotted one it's not unimaginable that they could shoot it down.

[Sarevok]

The RQ-170 is the mythical "beast of Kandahar" is not it ? It's a very advanced aircraft whose very existence was shrouded in secrecy. If the Iranians obtained a relatively intact wreckage it could be a massive loss to America.

[Shroom Man 777]

Well, I hope the Iranians will boast about it more and show us some nice pics of their new trophy, like those guys who downed that F-117.

[Ritterin Sophia]

I'd like to see a photo of the aircraft they shot down, the IRNA article where it was announced is showing a stock photo of the BAE Systems delta-wing demonstrator when the RQ-170 is a flying wing. The Iranian Press TV is claiming it was knocked down by the Iran Army's electronic warfare unit.

[Alan Bolte]

The Iranian Press TV is claiming it was knocked down by the Iran Army's electronic warfare unit.

Now that's interesting. EW seems like an obvious weakness of the drone concept, but I'm not aware of any instances where this weakness has been successfully exploited.

I guess it remains to be seen whether this was just luck or a proof-of-concept engagement.

[Ritterin Sophia]

I guess it remains to be seen whether this was just luck or a proof-of-concept engagement.

It's curious to me that you left out the most likely possibility of them simply lying.

[Alkaloid]

It's curious to me that you left out the most likely possibility of them simply lying.

Why is this the most likely scenario? It's certainly a possibility, but Iran is not an insurgent group with no EW capability, and it's not like drones being in the area hasn't been common knowledge for years or that the Iranian government doesn't have a vested interest in trying to knock them down. It would be more surprising if they didn't have some toy or another by now to at least try to take them out, and they could potentially have been developing and testing it on actual operational drones for years.

[Winston Blake]

The RQ-170 is the mythical "beast of Kandahar" is not it ? It's a very advanced aircraft whose very existence was shrouded in secrecy. If the Iranians obtained a relatively intact wreckage it could be a massive loss to America.

Yes. However, although it looks like a B-2 it's not that advanced:

The design lacks several elements common to stealth engineering, namely notched landing gear doors and sharp leading edges. It has a curved wing planform, and the exhaust is not shielded by the wing.[10] Aviation Week postulates that these elements suggest the designers have avoided 'highly sensitive technologies' due to the near certainty of eventual operational loss inherent with a single engine design and a desire to avoid the risk of compromising leading edge technology.[10]

------

Further article:

Iranians claim to down US drone

Iran's armed forces have shot down an unmanned US spy plane that violated its eastern borders, military sources say.

Iranian media reports said the drone - identified as a type RQ170 - suffered minimal damage and was now in the hands of the armed forces.

The Nato-led Isaf force in neighbouring Afghanistan says the US drone could be one that was lost over western Afghanistan last week.

Iran is locked in a dispute with the West over its nuclear programme.

The US and its allies believe the programme is aimed at developing nuclear weapons. Iran denies the accusations, saying it is entirely peaceful.
'Sensitive mission'

"The UAV [unmanned aerial vehicle] to which the Iranians are referring may be a US unarmed reconnaissance aircraft that had been flying a mission over western Afghanistan late last week. The operators of the UAV lost control of the aircraft and had been working to determine its status," Isaf said in a statement.

A US official has said Washington had no indication the drone in question had actually been shot down, Reuters reports.

Iran earlier said the country's military response to the airspace violation "will not be limited to Iran's borders any more", according to what one unnamed source told Iran's al-Alam TV.

The RQ170 Sentinel is a stealthy and highly capable unmanned aircraft. It is shaped like a large flying wing similar to the profile of the manned B2 stealth bomber.

Its shape and materials give it a low radar signature and it is clearly used for some of the most highly sensitive mission, says BBC defence and diplomatic correspondent Jonathan Marcus.

First spotted at Kandahar air base in Afghanistan in 2007, an RQ170 Sentinel was used by the Americans to provide real-time intelligence over Osama Bin Laden's compound in Abbotabad, Pakistan, both before and during the raid by US special forces earlier this year.

Iran said in July it had shot down a drone over the holy city of Qom, near its Fordu nuclear site.

Last January, it said it downed two "Western spy drones" in the Gulf, but produced no evidence to support the report.

The Nato-led Isaf force in neighbouring Afghanistan says the US drone could be one that was lost over western Afghanistan last week.

[...]

"The UAV [unmanned aerial vehicle] to which the Iranians are referring may be a US unarmed reconnaissance aircraft that had been flying a mission over western Afghanistan late last week. The operators of the UAV lost control of the aircraft and had been working to determine its status," Isaf said in a statement.

For some reason this reminded me of this:

[Jim Raynor]

I get why both sides would put out conflicting reports or decline to publically provide evidence of what happened, but the contradictory news articles that are out right now are SO annoying.

I've read multiple updates on this, and all of them say something different about what kind of drone it was, whether the Iranians actually have it, how intact it still is, etc.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Why is this the most likely scenario?

Because if they had they'd be bandying pictures of it all over the news.

[Count Chocula]

IF this is true, and they downed a "Beast of Kandahar," good luck reverse engineering the thing. IIRC our drone loss rate approached 50%, so it's not like such a loss is unanticipated. Of course, that's assuming Iran is telling the truth.

[Sarevok]

IF this is true, and they downed a "Beast of Kandahar," good luck reverse engineering the thing. IIRC our drone loss rate approached 50%, so it's not like such a loss is unanticipated. Of course, that's assuming Iran is telling the truth.

I would be worried about the Chinese getting their hands on it. The F-117 lost over Serbia was reportedly studied by Russians.

[Alkaloid]

And what the got from that was probably sold to the Chinese. Or so I hear.

[fgalkin]

The Iranian Press TV is claiming it was knocked down by the Iran Army's electronic warfare unit.

Now that's interesting. EW seems like an obvious weakness of the drone concept, but I'm not aware of any instances where this weakness has been successfully exploited.

I guess it remains to be seen whether this was just luck or a proof-of-concept engagement.

Here's one

I guess we'll have to wait and see what comes of this.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Sarevok]

They received an unencrypted video feed. Reportedly back in days of Kosovo war Predator feeds could seen by regular TV sets owned by civilians in the area below. It's basically a feature of the aircraft that the insurgents exploited.

Actually remotely taking over a drone is something has never been publicly demonstrated.

[Sea Skimmer]

They received an unencrypted video feed. Reportedly back in days of Kosovo war Predator feeds could seen by regular TV sets owned by civilians in the area below. It's basically a feature of the aircraft that the insurgents exploited.

The Kosovo issue was as I recall people around a British satellite downlink site could see the signals being beamed back down from space. This was a interception of the actual pilot related video feed being sent over commercial satellite systems. But starting in the war in Iraq, the US added something called Rover to all its drones, and also manned aircraft, which actively broadcasts the video feed from the aircraft's camera on an omni directional basis so troops on the ground could pick it up. This made the problem much worse as the US army decided not to encrypt the signals because they thought it was too much trouble handing out encryption keys to 50,000 Rover ground terminals.

Actually remotely taking over a drone is something has never been publicly demonstrated.

It would be especially hard to do with a large drone like Predator and up that is controlled mainly by satellite. The top of drone has a directional satellite antenna that handles the uthe normal control link. If you want to seize control besides of course needing the correct codes for the control link, and an ability to replicate the control link signals, you'd also either need your own Ku-band satellite, or a very high power ground or air terminal that can overpower the normal transmission while doing it from below the drone in the opposite direction of the antenna on the thing which is pointed up at space. Simply barrage jamming the control signal until it crashes would be much easier; its simply easier to generate very high power without trying to have precise waveforms. The Russians make high power Ku-band jammers, so do other people and I wouldn't rule out Iran being able to build its own, they've gotten to having a non trivial electronics industry by now. RQ-170 almost certainly uses Ku-band controls since nothing else would work well; Darkstar was also Ku-band.

Course, you'd think something like RQ-170 would have a 'come home' or 'crash in ocean' feature that would takeover if it was jammed... but that's not a given since its a limited service item and may never have had its system developed in detail like that. Its also possible that RQ-170 was not being controlled by satellite at the time, making it easier to jam, most drones also have a UHF radio link for control, mainly during takeoff and landing that might have been in use, some also have a X-band link as well. Using these air to ground links would not only be easier to jam, its also easier to detect making it more likely that our Persian friends would notice the stealthy drone is on duty.

Its also more as likely that the damn thing crashed on its own; but I just wouldn't rule out Iranian involvement with zero evidence one way or another. They've certainly had lots of exposure to US drones, and talk to lots of other people who've done the same.

Because if they had they'd be bandying pictures of it all over the news.

That was my first thought too. But I see two problems with it now that a bit of time has passed. The first is, if Iran doesn't have it then why on earth hasn't the US said we have it? If it didn't fall into Iranian hands we would have recovered it by now. A couple days is more then enough time to find such a high value wreck. The second thing is, Iran might not display it to the public if the Chinese offered them extra money to hide just how damaged the wreckage was. If it came down fairly intact then a strong incentive would exist to hide that and keep the US guessing.

[Sarevok]

It's been a good year for China is not it ? First they got the stealthy helicopter no one even knew existed from the Laden raid. Now they may have a relatively intact crashed RQ-170.

[Sephirius]

It's been a good year for China is not it ? First they got the stealthy helicopter no one even knew existed from the Laden raid. Now they may have a relatively intact crashed RQ-170.

I for one hope a hellfire 'goes missing' at the location the RQ is being kept before China gets their paws on it.

[Kanastrous]

Tehran, Iran (CNN) -- Iranian TV aired images Thursday of what it says is a U.S. stealth drone that went down in Iran last week, an apparently intact RQ-170 drone propped on a pedestal and triumphantly displayed.

"Military experts are well aware how precious the technological information of this drone is," said Brig. Gen. Amir Ali Hajizadeh, commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Aerospace Forces, according to the semi-official Fars News Agency.

Aired by the official Press TV network, the video showed different angles of the unmanned aircraft. It had been flying over the eastern town of Kashmar when it went down, the network said.

"Recently, our collected intelligence and precise electronic monitoring revealed that this aircraft intended to infiltrate our country's airspace for spying missions," Hajizadeh said.

"After it entered the eastern parts of the country, this aircraft fell into the trap of our armed forces and was downed in Iran with minimum damage."
Video surfaces of alleged U.S. drone

He said the wing-to-wing width "is around 26 meters with a length of 4.5 meters and height of 1.84 meters" and the aircraft "is equipped with highly advanced surveillance, data gathering, electronic communication and radar systems."

Hajizadeh said B-2 and F-35 planes have used the technology found in the aircraft, which is guided via "satellite link and land stations in Afghanistan and the United States.

"As far as its platform and coating are concerned, this kind of plane has been designed to evade radar systems and from the viewpoint of technology it is amongst the most recent types of advanced aircraft used by the U.S.," Hajizadeh said.

The authenticity of the video could not be independently confirmed, but the seemingly good condition of the plane fueled talk about how the incident happened and whether the drone on display was the real one.

Commentators on Press TV expressed surprise that the craft was captured in such good shape. U.S. officials said the drone crashed.

John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, said his initial reaction to pictures sent to him by CNN is that they weren't what he would expect to see after a crash. He said he's guessing that the object is a mockup prepared for a parade, noting a U.S. flag in the picture.

Bill Sweetman, an aviation analyst, said the craft appears to be the RQ-170, and it looks real to him.

If the drone came down in what he called a flat spin, or what is known as a falling leaf departure, the plane would be pretty much intact, he said, but the belly would be badly scraped. He said all of the electronics inside would most likely be in one piece.

Sweetman doubts the Iranians hacked into the system and took control of the aircraft. It is much more likely it crashed by itself, he said, since "that is what drones do."

And the condition also suggests it was not shot down but was a system failure. There are no burn marks from a fire, no holes, and no outer damage. Sweetman noticed a dent along the leading edge but doesn't know what that means.

The CIA and the Pentagon would not comment on the latest development.

Two U.S. officials confirmed to CNN on Tuesday that the drone was part of a CIA reconnaissance mission that involved both the intelligence community and military personnel stationed in Afghanistan.

A senior U.S. official with direct access to the assessment about what happened to the unmanned aircraft said it was tasked to fly over western Afghanistan and look for insurgent activity, with no directive to either fly into Iran or spy on Iran from Afghan airspace.

A U.S. satellite quickly pinpointed the downed drone, which apparently sustained significant damage, the senior official said.

The official Islamic Republic News Agency and Fars said Iran's Foreign Ministry summoned the Swiss ambassador to Iran, who received an official reprimand for the U.S. actions. Switzerland represents U.S. interests in Iran, which doesn't have diplomatic relations with the United States.

Iran demanded U.S. reparations for the act, which it says is "against every international law and regulation, as well as contrary to the region's peace and security," Fars said.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/08/world/mea ... ?hpt=hp_t3

I dig the flag redesign. Only complaint: needs 44 more skulls before we can consider adopting it.

[VarrusTheEthical]

I dig the flag redesign. Only complaint: needs 44 more skulls before we can consider adopting it.

Maybe the Iranians are saying that only six states in the US are metal enough to get skulls. If true, that begs the question: which ones?

[weemadando]

There's video out now of Iran showing off their new toy.

Apparently the US have finally admitted one was missing too.

[Kanastrous]

Why don't we fit these things with self-destruct charges? Too much of a safety hazard?

Also, since the image doesn't apparently display the kind of damage usually associated with having been 'shot down,' shouldn't the thread title be something more along the lines of "US Drone Crash-Lands in Iran, Iranians Lie About How it Got There?"

[weemadando]

Not a shoot down. Iran says they hijacked control of it.

Which is doubt as even if they cracked into the control link they'd need the avionics and video software too in order to be able to control it to any degree. Which would be a terrifying prospect for counter espionage folks.