Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad)

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Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad)

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http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011 ... ebate.html
Republican presidential hopeful Rick Perry says he would eliminate three federal agencies. Just don't ask him to name them.

"Commerce, Education and the — what's the third one there? Let's see," the Texas governor said during a debate Wednesday night.

Perry's rivals tried to bail him out, suggesting the Environmental Protection Agency.

"EPA, there you go," Perry said, seemingly taking their word for it.

But that wasn't it. And when pressed, the candidate drew another blank.

"Seriously?" moderator John Harwood, one of CNBC's debate hosts, asked. "You can't name the third one?"

"The third agency of government I would do away with — the Education, the Commerce. And let's see. I can't. The third one, I can't," Perry said. "Oops."

Later in the debate, Perry revisited the question and said he meant to call for the elimination of the Energy Department.

The immediate fallout was brutal — at least on Twitter.

"Perry response will be on highlight reels for years to come," business legend Jack Welch tweeted.

"Off screen, Dr. (Ron) Paul is sadly administering the last rites to Rick Perry," Republican strategist Mike Murphy added. "Dr. Paul filling out paperwork as they haul Perry away. He's ruling it a suicide."

"Rick Perry just lost the debate. And the entire election. You only had to name three," Tim Albrecht, the top spokesman for Iowa Gov. Terry Branstad, who is unaligned in the GOP race, tweeted from his personal account.

Perry says he 'stepped in it'

After the debate, Perry appeared to be in damage control mode. In dramatic fashion, he bee-lined it to the so-called "spin room" where a crush of reporters were gathered to interview campaign surrogates — and he immediately indicated that he knew he had made a really bad mistake. The first words out of his mouth as reporters crowded around: "I'm glad I had my boots on because I really stepped in it tonight."

"People understand that it is our conservative principles that matter," he said.

"We all felt very bad for him," Michele Bachmann, the Minnesota congresswoman also running for the nomination, said after the debate, calling the moment uncomfortable.

The next few days will shed light on whether voters care about the misstep — and punish him for it.

Over the past two weeks, Perry has sought to prove he's still a credible challenger to Republican Mitt Romney by rolling out detailed policy proposals. But he's found himself dogged by suggestions that he had been drinking or taking drugs when he gave an animated speech in New Hampshire. It went viral online, prompting Perry to state that he was not, in fact, under the influence of a substance.

NBC's Saturday Night Live did a Perry parody last weekend that was widely viewed.

In recent days, the candidate started to take his message directly to the voters by running sunny biographical television ads in early primary states like Iowa and New Hampshire. It's an effort to re-introduce himself to Republican primary voters in a safer setting that circumvents the news media.

Wednesday was the latest tough debate for the GOP candidate who has struggled in the national spotlight since entering the race in August, the last time he was at the top of polls. His standing has fallen throughout the fall, and he's fighting to gain ground less than two months before the leadoff Iowa caucuses.

He has committed to four more debates — in a year when the GOP electorate is clearly tuned into them — but his advisers are considering skipping future ones.

Debates offer pivotal moments

Presidential debates have offered pivotal moments for decades, from Al Gore's audible sighs in 2000 to Michael Dukakis' tepid answer about the death penalty in 1988.

A statement by Gerald Ford in a 1976 presidential debate is among the most memorable, however. Ford famously baffled audiences when he said, "There is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe."

Later pressed by the moderator, he refused to back down. The moment haunted the rest of his losing campaign.

Publicly Perry aides sought to downplay Wednesday night's shaky answer.

"We had a stumble of style and not substance," insisted Ray Sullivan, Perry's top communications adviser. "He still named two more agencies than this president (would eliminate)."

Perry had no public schedule on Thursday and planned to privately raise money at events in Tennessee. His next public campaign stops were scheduled in South Carolina on Friday — a day before yet another debate.


Wow. Just wow.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!
You're finished Perry! Finished I tells ya! And now I'm in a good mood. :D
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by Lord Zentei »

Holy shit, he's even more of a moron than I previously thought. I had assumed that he'd at least be a smooth operator in the election business. How did he become governor of Texas with such incompetence?

Or perhaps he's taken to drink due to the pressure of getting into national politics.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by VarrusTheEthical »

Lord Zentei wrote:Holy shit, he's even more of a moron than I previously thought. I had assumed that he'd at least be a smooth operator in the election business. How did he become governor of Texas with such incompetence?

As I understand, compared to other states, the office of Governor in Texas is relatively weak. In fact, I've heard people go so far as to say that the position of Governor in Texas is largely ceremonial and that the Lt. Governor has more real power. So in other words, there's less at take if a complete mouth breather like Perry (or Bush) is elected to Governor, because the legislature is much more powerful.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by wautd »

Lord Zentei wrote:Holy shit, he's even more of a moron than I previously thought. I had assumed that he'd at least be a smooth operator in the election business. How did he become governor of Texas with such incompetence?
Being a retard isn't as much of a handicap in american politics. Just look at former president Bush.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by Dave »

Honestly, I'm not reading anything into this other than him having a senior moment. We all forget things sometimes, it's just more embarrassing to do it in public.

If it was Obama or Ron Paul, would we say it was anything other than them drawing a blank that day?
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by VarrusTheEthical »

Dave wrote:Honestly, I'm not reading anything into this other than him having a senior moment. We all forget things sometimes, it's just more embarrassing to do it in public.

If it was Obama or Ron Paul, would we say it was anything other than them drawing a blank that day?

This isn't just one "senior moment", he's been consistently fumbling at every republican debate.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by Simon_Jester »

Dave wrote:Honestly, I'm not reading anything into this other than him having a senior moment. We all forget things sometimes, it's just more embarrassing to do it in public.
The problem is that there are things you forget, and things you shouldn't forget.

I can understand an old man forgetting, say, the capital of California. That doesn't bother me so much. But damned if I can understand him forgetting which side of the road cars are supposed to drive on. Some pieces of information are more important than others, and if you're to be considered qualified for a certain job, there are some things that ought to be permanently at your fingertips- a level of knowledge, trained reflex, and mental flexibility is required to do the work at all.

If Perry's drawing blanks on major federal agencies fifteen months before he hopes to step into the Oval Office, then that calls his qualifications into question. I wouldn't hold it against him if he weren't running for president.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by Flagg »

Perry is a shrewd politician, he's just a shit debater, most likely because these are the first real debates he's been in. IIRC he only participated in 2 debates as candidate for Texas governor.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

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Lord Zentei wrote:Holy shit, he's even more of a moron than I previously thought. I had assumed that he'd at least be a smooth operator in the election business. How did he become governor of Texas with such incompetence?
It's likely to do with him being fairly competent (for lack of a better term) during his stint as Lt. Governer. When Bush was elected to the presidency, Perry won election as a well-known incumbent handily (from what I remember) due to a bunch of attack ads run during the Democrat nominations. Basically, he was probably going to win, but the Democrats fucked themselves trying to win nominations to run against Perry.

But his elections afterward weren't exactly compelling. I didn't pay any attention in 2010 and the only thing I remember about 2006 was a bunch of dumbass college students shouting "Kinky Friedman!" I know he didn't win by much.

Perry has done a pretty good job taking credit for Texas's weathering the economic storm during the past 10 years. As said earlier, the Texas governor has no real power as Texans weren't pleased after Reconstruction and wrote what has been called "the perfect example on how not to write a Constitution." Seriously, read the Texas Constitution, it fucking awful.

Basically, Perry takes a lot of credit for shit he didn't do then turns around and says "don't blame me, I have no real power" when things go to shit. A perfect example was how well Texas was doing around 2009, except Texas does it's budget balancing every 2 years, rather than every year. So Perry scored a lot of points because we looked great and everyone else looked like shit. Then the next years budget balancing came around. But good on him as he did manage to convince Texan's that the real problem with the Texas economy is that teachers are overpaid.....
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

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I had thought Perry would come off in the media as a more articulate, suaver version of Dubya. Ignoring that he's a radical compared to Bush and even more oppressively Evangelical in his outlook. Instead, Perry has reached a point where he makes Bush appear to be his superior as a candidate and a politician. I did not want to rule him out as the strongest anti-Romney candidate in the long-run, until after Herman Cain imploded, but Perry has reached that point first. I just hope I won't regret saying Perry is probably out of it now but it certainly looks that way.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by SpaceMarine93 »

Considering the fact that at least 30% of the country is now just as radical as Perry is, in the form of the Tea Party Movement, I still think that Rick Perry has a chance.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by Highlord Laan »

Lord Zentei wrote:How did he become governor of Texas with such incompetence?
You need to ask?
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by Phantasee »

Fuck off with that bullshit, Laan.

I thought it was revealing that the second time he tried to name the three agencies, at the insistence of the moderator, he almost forgot Commerce as well. He got very flustered.

It was also pretty revealing that he accepted "EPA" from Paul as if that was what he meant to say, until the moderator called him out on it. Nice try to cover it up, but you have to stick to your lie for more than a minute for it to work.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by Flagg »

Phantasee wrote:Fuck off with that bullshit, Laan.

I thought it was revealing that the second time he tried to name the three agencies, at the insistence of the moderator, he almost forgot Commerce as well. He got very flustered.

It was also pretty revealing that he accepted "EPA" from Paul as if that was what he meant to say, until the moderator called him out on it. Nice try to cover it up, but you have to stick to your lie for more than a minute for it to work.

Texas is my birthplace, therefore I reserve the right to confirm or deny the retardedness of that state. I agree with Laan.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

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SpaceMarine93 wrote:Considering the fact that at least 30% of the country is now just as radical as Perry is, in the form of the Tea Party Movement, I still think that Rick Perry has a chance.
As much as I want this to be Perry's death knell, I'm afraid you're probably right.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

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Highlord Laan wrote:
Lord Zentei wrote:How did he become governor of Texas with such incompetence?
You need to ask?
It didn't help that every Democratic challenger against Perry had all the charisma of damp cardboard.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by Simon_Jester »

The support of thirty percent of the electorate does not a winner make- Ross Perot did nearly that well and didn't even show up on the electoral college's radar. Perot probably even managed it with a fair chunk of the same people supporting him.

If the Republicans present a candidate who makes the Tea Party squeal with delight but comes across as a dimwitted lunatic thug to everyone else, they are going to lose. They may win certain states, but they will lose enough swing states that the overall election result will be very lopsided against them. They need someone who presents a credible alternative to Barack Obama, and while Barack Obama's popularity numbers aren't that high, they're pretty high by the standards of American politicians circa 2011- there aren't a lot of people who have come through the recession looking better than him.

This is basic politics. Run a moron who sprays gaffes all over the landscape against someone who's got their shit together, and the candidate who's got their shit together has a big advantage.

Even in the primaries this holds true. It's not like every Teaist thinks Perry's the man to put into the White House; that vote is split among several candidates. And a lot of Teaists will vote for someone like Romney before they'd vote for a goddamn idiot, once they become aware that the alternative is a goddamn idiot. This awareness does get through over time; it's just slower because they're watching more sympathetic coverage of the Republican presidential candidates than we are.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Don't know if this deserves it's own thread, but Herman Cain Crashes and burns almost as hard as Perry.
Republican White House hopeful Herman Cain has stumbled badly in responding to a basic question on Libya, casting further doubt on his ability to revive an embattled campaign.

A five-minute video of Cain's rambling response to a question posed by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel's editorial board rocketed across the blogosphere on Monday before being picked up by network television pundits.

'Okay, Libya,' Cain said before rolling his eyes up and pausing to gather his thoughts after being asked if he agreed or disagreed with Obama's response to the Libyan uprising.

'President Obama supported the uprising. Correct? President Obama called for the removal of Gaddafi. Just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing before I say, 'yes, I agreed' or 'no, I didn't agree',' he said.

'I did not agree with the way he handled it for the following reason - no that's a different one,' the flummoxed Republican contender continued, adding he's 'got all this stuff twirling around in my head'.

Cain's inability to answer a direct and relatively simple foreign policy question stunned some pundits, who soon began debating whether it was a more serious gaffe than rival Rick Perry's 'oops' moment at a debate last week, when the Texas governor forgot the third federal department he wanted to shut down.

'Herman Cain-Libya answer might be worse than Rick Perry's debate moment; Smaller stage but wow,' NBC political reporter Chuck Todd tweeted.

'So are we at the point where you can say, Herman Cain really Rick Perry'd that question,' tweeted Washington Post columnist Ezra Klein.

The gaffe comes as Cain is fighting to keep his campaign on track amid a spiraling sexual harassment scandal.

Cain's wife Gloria came out in defence of her husband Monday, telling Fox News that he 'totally respects women' and that she does not believe his four accusers.

Asked about the allegations, she said, 'that's not Herman' who would have harassed women, adding, 'He would have to have a split personality to do the things that were said.'

Gloria Cain said she believed in her husband's campaign as well.

'I think he would be a great president,' the told Fox.

'I think he would try to make a difference.'

Regarding one accuser, Sharon Bialek, who went public with her allegations, Gloria Cain said, 'I totally don't believe her.'

Monday's gaffe is a far more serious problem for his campaign, conservative columnist and Fox News contributor Michelle Malkin wrote on her blog.

'The real Cain scandal: He can barely form a coherent thought on Libya when put on the spot,' Malkin wrote.

'Tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. But like Rick Perry, Herman Cain is just not ready for prime time.'

The former head of the Godfather's Pizza chain, who has never before held elected office, had been polling a tight second to win the Republican nomination ever since Perry's support collapsed in early October following poor debate performances.

But at least one opinion poll on Monday showed Cain sliding in the public's standing, after two steady weeks of media scrutiny over allegations he sexually harassed various women while at the helm of a Washington DC trade lobby group during the 1990s.

Cain told the newspaper board that his inability to provide a 'yes or no answer' to the newspaper's editorial board was because he's a 'much more deliberate problem - decision maker.'

'Some people say as president you're supposed to know everything. No you don't,' Cain told the editorial board.

'I believe in having all the information, as much of it as I possibly can, rather than making a decision or statement about whether I totally agree or disagree when I wasn't privy to the situation.

'I'm not trying to hedge on the questions. It's just that's my nature as a businessman,' he continued.

'I need to know the facts as much as possible. I need to hear all the alternatives.'

When questioned by reporters later Monday, Cain appeared shocked that the interview was an issue.

'It was a pause. That's all it was - good grief!' he said.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by Lord Zentei »

I saw that one. Gods, what a retard.

What is it with the social conservative populists, are they entirely incapable of putting forward a candidate who can honestly advocate their ideals and who simultaneously isn't a complete moron?

PS: that was a rhetorical question. LOL.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by Patrick Degan »

Lord Zentei wrote:I saw that one. Gods, what a retard.

What is it with the social conservative populists, are they entirely incapable of putting forward a candidate who can honestly advocate their ideals and who simultaneously isn't a complete moron?

PS: that was a rhetorical question. LOL.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by mr friendly guy »

Lord Zentei wrote:I saw that one. Gods, what a retard.

What is it with the social conservative populists, are they entirely incapable of putting forward a candidate who can honestly advocate their ideals and who simultaneously isn't a complete moron?

PS: that was a rhetorical question. LOL.
They strike me as people who use a bunch of talking points and repeat it ad nauseum. So presumably when the topic changes to a question which they weren't prepared for, they stumble. Doesn't explain away the useless way Perry handled it, but could explain away Cain's stumble.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by VF5SS »

I think the whole issue can be summed up in Jon Leibowitz's ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!?
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by UnderAGreySky »

Simon_Jester wrote:Even in the primaries this holds true. It's not like every Teaist thinks Perry's the man to put into the White House; that vote is split among several candidates. And a lot of Teaists will vote for someone like Romney before they'd vote for a goddamn idiot, once they become aware that the alternative is a goddamn idiot. This awareness does get through over time; it's just slower because they're watching more sympathetic coverage of the Republican presidential candidates than we are.
What happens when all the Tea Party-backed candidates save one drop out? Currently 70+% of Republican's *don't* want Romney. What if they fall behind whoever's left? Today Newt is leading the polls - Newt "thrice-married, cancer-ridden-wife-divorcing, out-of-the-Ashes-emerged" Gingrich is leading. Isn't not-Romney a distinct chance? The only *relatively* sane one left is Huntsman and he has all the same strikes against him.
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Re: Rick Perry gaffe (and I thought our politicians were bad

Post by Lord Zentei »

Newt is not #1, but is only just behind Romney. IMHO he is unelectable in the general election, and might be flavour of the month. But he may well take a lot more from Cain & Perry than Romney. It seems that this whole circus has been a Mortal Kombat tournament of the Not Romneys, with Romney as the Final Boss to be defeated by the champion. Except the contestants are all committing suicide instead of killing each other.

Anyway, numbers for 11/17:

Romney: 22.0% (while not always #1, his support is most stable of the lot)
Gingrich: 21.6% (see initial rant)
Cain: 18.6% (going down)
Perry: 8.2% (going down)
Paul: 7.8% (rising, and steadily gaining steam in key areas like Iowa)
Bachmann: 5.4% (whatever)
Huntsman: 2.2% (sigh)
Santorum: 1.8% (points and laughs)

Ron Paul may still turn out to be the big upstart candidate in Iowa, and if so he may gain momentum for later. It's not just the national totals that count but state-by-state strategy too (see Obama's steadily mounting victory over Hillary, though I doubt Ron Paul will pull that off, he may still be a spoiler in a volatile situation).
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