What does the Occupy Movement Mean to You?

[Stravo]

A simple question. What does the Occuy Movement that is spreading around the world mean to you? Is it anarchy and chaos and thus you want to burn it with fire? Is it the workers and proles finally waking up to the boot stomping on their face? When you read and watch the news reports or even take part in them how does this movement speak to you?

I'll start. I have been angry at the general population of this country for some time. Like sheep the people here have been cowed into submission with a deadly combination of apathy, bread and circuses, and frankly being told that they don't matter. And people seem to have accepted this. During the fear mongering of the Bush era I saw the people of this country just sit and take every heaping serving of shit served to them, a stolen election and a president crowned by judicial fiat, a war that was based on a lie, reorganization of bankruptcy code to "close loopholes" written by the banks, torture, and growing intolerance and division. It made me essentially give up hope that we would ever again be a nation for the people by the people. The underlying idea of government fearing its populace was utterly laughable.

But now I see people finally standing up and saying what we have all been feeling for a good long time. We've been shit on, abused, manipulated and then bailed out the people that actually did it and they're literally laughing their way to the bank. It's not what I expected would happen but more like what I hoped would happen. That we were not a nation of mindless sheep.

I'm under no illusions that this movement is the sweeping revolution that might set things right but goddamn it at least some people are waking up and saying they are not going to mindlessly accept that they can't do anything about it.

I'm also seeing the gathering of forces on the other end and it is a revelation how the special interests have quietly rallied together to try and squash this movement. The media very subtly does its thing and spins them as wackoos, smelly young people whose true agenda smacks of *GASP* Socialism. The politicians willfully ignore them, Bloomberg for example contemptuously stating that as soon as the weather turns they'll disperse on their own, and if they don't disperse...well....we saw in Oakland what is likely going to start happening every where else.

For me the most inspiring moment has been when the rest of the world started taking up the cause, Occupy Rome, etc. It said to me that this message of economic justice resonates all around the world and maybe the world itself is waking up and saying we don't want to be shit on anymore.

Again, no illusions here, this movement could very well fizzle out with the cold weather or lose momentum or just lose its way and become like the idiot protestors who attack every G-7 summit but just the fact that this is happening at all makes me feel better about people again.

[K. A. Pital]

Is it the workers and proles finally waking up to the boot stomping on their face?

This. A very meek and cautious awakening, but an awakening nonetheless. The worldwide scale is also surprising and nice.

[montypython]

Is it the workers and proles finally waking up to the boot stomping on their face?

This. A very meek and cautious awakening, but an awakening nonetheless. The worldwide scale is also surprising and nice.

Absolutely concur, since even the greatest of revolutionary forces always needs some impetus to get things rolling, this is definitely a welcome development.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

It may trigger an actual movement which will produce real change if a few of them get shot by live bullets from the cops in the street. Enough at once to bring in lots of cameras and worldwide coverage. Other than that, it's about as useful as Palestinians throwing rocks at a tank. It probably feels pretty good, but until you get tens of thousands of people ignoring the authorities and bringing New York to a rolling halt with a human wave too big for NYPD to suppress and the same thing happens in a dozen other cities at once, it has no political power.

[The Romulan Republic]

Got to start somewhere. Sure, it might not be strong enough to change much now, but change of that sort doesn't just happen overnight. Opposition takes time to build up. The movement could dissipate, or become stronger.

While I doubt I would agree with the goals and politics of all of the Occupy protestors, I'll give them this much: they've been fairly peaceful in their demonstrations, and at least they're trying to do something instead of sitting at home on their asses. As long as they remain peaceful, I see no reason not to support them employing their right to freedom of expression to stand up for what they believe in.

[Skgoa]

This mythical "occupy movement spreading around the world" means absolutely nothing to me, since it doesn't exist. What we are seeing in america is just the same unrest and clamor for reforms that have been part of most (democratic) countries' political landscape. People in other countries are jumping on the bandwaggon for brand recognision, it's still just the same people trying to advance the same local goals, not a sudden popular uprising. It's nice to see americans finally waking up from the american dream, but it's not the begining of the world revolution.

[Simon_Jester]

This mythical "occupy movement spreading around the world" means absolutely nothing to me, since it doesn't exist. What we are seeing in america is just the same unrest and clamor for reforms that have been part of most (democratic) countries' political landscape. People in other countries are jumping on the bandwaggon for brand recognision, it's still just the same people trying to advance the same local goals, not a sudden popular uprising. It's nice to see americans finally waking up from the american dream, but it's not the begining of the world revolution.

Maybe it's the other way around- this is the global spread of the Occupy movement, it's just that it's spreading to the US from everywhere else, not the other way round... and "Occupy movement" is just the local American name for the global phenomenon, in the context of its own local environment.

[Alerik the Fortunate]

This. I've heard on the radio visitors from France and Latin America saying things like "what a quaint little demonstration! Everyone is so Polite. Of course it's nothing like what we're used to in our cities, but it's nice to see Americans taking an interest in their government." It might not be an effective mass movement yet, but it's something non-apathetic. I will be joining a couple of local Occupy groups, if at least to generate some attention to the topics and fraternize with people who care (which will be refreshing). We'll be far from any centers of power, but we're also in apathy central, so we'll be doing that at least. If it escalates to something more before the elections, hopefully some policy changes will be implemented. Even if some violence occurs, if that motivated people to push for change, then it will be worth it. Of course I hope that violence will be kept at a minimum (especially if I am to be in any marches, which I may be next week), and that changes occur peacefully and effectively. But if not, better the country wake up now than most likely face another similar movement in five years or so, when the situation is that much worse. I'm also planning to withdraw my remaining funds from Wells Fargo and transfer them to a local credit union where my wife and I already have accounts. Not much I can do about my student loans (which Wells Fargo issued) or mortgage (which Bank of America owns), but I can move what I can (and avoid new checking fees too).

I have a little trepidation, remembering how the the outpouring of community spirit and support following 9/11 was subverted into unquestioning consumerism and support for the Iraq war, but I have some hope that people will remember that. If not, we need to remind them. The degree to which the mainstream media has had to downplay it indicates there is more to the movement than many would like to think. The whole "53%" movement indicates the subtle attempts by the elite to establish middle class identification with upper class interests; the ways in which its spokespeople belittle protesters as lazy asses who aren't busy enough working to have time to protest politics indicates the desired attitude that has rather successfully been inculcated into the American consciousness: that the only morally acceptable and desirable state is to be so busy at work that one has no time for a political voice or social conscience. The Greeks and the Founders would be appalled, and these people need to be called out on their implications. Hopefully I will do so soon.

[Count Chocula]

Not much. I agree with the sentiment that far too many, or all, of the banking and investment house fuckers who made bad deals and got bailouts need to be in jail. But they also need to have the cells adjoining them occupied (heh) by execs at the Fed, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and a couple of dozen Congressmen and Senators.

As for how they're going about it, and how they're handling their loose cannons, and their Potemkin Village empty tent towns? I'm not impressed.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I still don't know what they want beyond 'make things better'. The sound bites I get on the news certainly aren't helping their cause.

[Col. Crackpot]

Not much. I agree with the sentiment that far too many, or all, of the banking and investment house fuckers who made bad deals and got bailouts need to be in jail. But they also need to have the cells adjoining them occupied (heh) by execs at the Fed, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and a couple of dozen Congressmen and Senators.

As for how they're going about it, and how they're handling their loose cannons, and their Potemkin Village empty tent towns? I'm not impressed.

My feelings toward the movement are known, and i don't feel like being flamed yet again for calling a spade a spade. But i wanted to give a big A-FUCKING-MEN for the bolded part of your comment. Every Yay vote on this list should be locked up Not to mention the President that signed it. Occupy wall street all you want but it was these fuckers who empowered wall street. Whores every one.

[Aniron]

I still don't know what they want beyond 'make things better'. The sound bites I get on the news certainly aren't helping their cause.

You must be stupid because their message is clear, and even Chocula knows what part of it is. Money out of politics, those responsible should pay, the income gap is atrocious, college and university tuition should be lowered so prospective students and current students won't be debt slaves, etc. I guess the lesson to be learned is that you should stop watching the news if you can't even deduce their clear-cut message.

[Archaic`]

I still don't know what they want beyond 'make things better'. The sound bites I get on the news certainly aren't helping their cause.

Given that reporters (from what I've seen of the coverage) seem to be avoiding the more articulate protestors like Lawrence Lessig (Harvard law professor and Creative Commons board member), or for that matter the protestors own media team, that's not all that surprising.

Probably the best place to start in understanding the movement is with the Declaration of the Occupation of New York City, which lists their grievances. There's been several more documents published since this, outlining in detail specific objectives and suggested ways to go about achieving them, though you probably won't find one single template document that's been agreed on by all protestors in all Occupy protests.

[madd0ct0r]

It's the latest manifestation of global dissatisfaction.

And thanks to reasonably sensible people on both sides, the American one has been reasonably peaceful so far.
As a potential movement, I think OWS could go much much further then the Teaparty did, but the forces against them are stacked higher.

Everyday the protest continues, it becomes more legitimate and stronger in the eyes of people who expected it to blow over. In turn, those people are willing to lend cautious support.

It's a steady progression of joiners starting with those who have least to loose, to those who are surviving, but still voted for hope and change a few years back.

[Thinktank]

My take on the whole underlying message is:

To: The Establishment
From: Generation X, Y, Et-all.
Re: We are tired of the Bullshit.

[Alerik the Fortunate]

Recently got back from my first local Occupy meeting; our group seems actually to be rather strongly focused on local problems, mainly centered around the tyrannical mayor, who has:
1. Declared the town to be a Christian community and instituted prayers before meetings as well as added the words "in God we trust" to the City Council chambers.
2. Eminent domained property to create a new public park using city funds, and sealed off the premises and turned it over primarily to private use by a religious school named after a local major investor and friend of his.
3. Illegally shut down a business for hosting a convention of bikers, and keeping the business license suspended until they were forced to sell the property, which was picked up for a song by another friend of the mayor, who also is now on the city council.
4. Arrested, possibly without warrant, the brother of one of the Occupy AV members for openly criticizing him in a public City Council meeting. He is still being held in county jail for $25000 bail.
5. Enacted legislation strictly limiting public demonstrations, including spontaneous, individual, not-for-profit public outbursts of singing, dancing, whatever.
6. Spent enormous amounts of public funds on massive redevelopment projects, virtually all of which is owned or operated by a corporation in which he has connections and/or interests.

The last one actually benefits me in the short run, at least, since it meant the rebuilding of the area around where I actually live, mostly for the better. It may boost the property values to make it easier for us to sell our house when me move out of the area next year, but I digress.

Beyond that, the group seeks to begin educational campaigns to highlight the numerous conflicts of interest that abound in our government, in the Fed, and as highlighted above, locally. That is the most important aspect that I can think of, to at least stimulate public dialogue. And it's something that I can take part in.

[The Romulan Republic]

Holly fuck, if all that is accurate, how have the courts not torn that mayor a new one yet?

[TimothyC]

Holly fuck, if all that is accurate, how have the courts not torn that mayor a new one yet?

No body has charged him yet.
That tends to be how dictatorial little twerps like that stay around.
The first recourse I can think of would be to check the state's eminent domain laws as some were rewritten after Kelo v. New London.

[Darth Tanner]

Means shit all to me.

I saw the 'occupy' Birmingham protest and it’s just a few bearded hippie types camping in the rain while two female CSOs look on. It may well be more organised or widespread in other cities but going from the Birmingham protest it’s just the usual serial protesters hanging around dossing on the street, there wasn’t even signs up saying why their doing it, they could have been protesting anything if I hadn't know what the occupy movement was beforehand.

I see no actual objective achievements yet, but then me sitting on my arse isn’t achieving anything else either so good on them for at least caring enough to bother but I don't see it doing anything.

The American stereotypical reaction of the police beating people up and massively overreacting to peaceful protest and causing a much bigger issue out of it could help them out if some less tactful police get carried away and give the protests the media attention/sympathy they need.

You must be stupid because their message is clear,

Just from the single site Archaic linked to their demands are wide and varied from economic policy, nuclear disarmament to the death penalty and foreign wars. They don't actually say how they will change things, only that they are unhappy with how things are.

And most of those demands are US specific. I thought this was supposed to be a global movement. The occupy Birmingham site is as devoid of grievances as it is of factual information.

[K. A. Pital]

Occupy Frankfurt is anti-ECB, for example, so I guess it is just the fact that Birmingham's movement can't relate to local problems.

[Korgeta]

It's perhaps a start, but I doubt it would make much of an impression or even finish what it set out to achieve. In the UK anyway we dealt with fuel strikes (2p off demand or 'Tell Gordon to 2p off!' slogan) at the time when labour were running and the miner's strikes back at the 80's. To be perfectly honest I'm not sure if MP's have ever listened to the demands of protests so I can't see the occupy movement in the UK being effective unless it had more numbers and greater determination then maybe but i doubt that will still make any changes.

[Simon_Jester]

Means shit all to me.

I saw the 'occupy' Birmingham protest and it’s just a few bearded hippie types camping in the rain while two female CSOs look on. It may well be more organised or widespread in other cities but going from the Birmingham protest it’s just the usual serial protesters hanging around dossing on the street, there wasn’t even signs up saying why their doing it, they could have been protesting anything if I hadn't know what the occupy movement was beforehand.

"It's a global movement" does not mean "within five weeks, every city on Earth had large, distinctive protests." That only happens in novels. Bad novels.

Can you think of a political movement that was as coherent, disciplined, and organized as you'd like the Occupy movement to be, within five weeks of its coming into existence in the first place?

[Col. Crackpot]

Every Yay vote on this list should be locked up

God, I love Dennis Kucinich.

I think he's an assclown but i admire the fact that he has principles and sticks to them even when they aren't popular.

[General Mung Beans]

It may trigger an actual movement which will produce real change if a few of them get shot by live bullets from the cops in the street.

Which ain't gonna happen.

[Surlethe]

I'm not as concerned with income inequality as I am with poor governance and dynamism. In other words, what troubles me is: regulatory capture, the Capitol/lobbying revolving door, and barriers to interdecadal/intergenerational class dynamism. I don't give a shit if somebody makes minimum wage as long as he's not starving, has the opportunity to advance or start his own business with some reasonable chance of success and not-too-high cost of failure, and can send his kids to a decent school. I don't give too much of a shit if some banker is making $700 million, as long as poor people aren't starving to death in the streets and the banker's not golfing buddies with congresscritters or people from the SEC.

Likewise, if we want to solve inequality, I don't think we need to tax rich people relatively more --- relatively speaking, our tax system is already more progressive, and, in absolute terms, it does more to correct income inequality, than every other country in the OECD. We need more taxes on everybody. But more importantly, we need to wisely spend the money we bring in: that means national health care with price controls so that we don't bankrupt ourselves on Medicare, that means fewer overlapping programs, that means more broad-based redistribution and less military bullshit, that means one financial regulator and not four, one food regulator and not two, and so on.

So my vision for where society ultimately should head is kind of different from whatever vision OWS might have. But I wish them luck, because from where we stand now, we both want to go the same direction.

To sum up, let me quote from The Pain, from a letter written to a Tea Partier:

I know you and I are located at roughly orange and indigo on the political spectrum but I can't help but feel the Tea Party really ought to be down there demonstrating alongside all the insufferable nosering-wearing anarchists [of Occupy Wall Street]. The Tea Party formed when enough conservatives felt the Republican Party had betrayed or abandoned them; this demonstration seems like proof that a critical mass of progressives now feels the same way about the Obama administration. The one consensus in this country is that things are fucked up. We both agree that absolutely no one in the government cares what we think about anything. It seems to me that the main difference between Left and Right anymore is that you guys blame The Government for everything while we blame Corporate America. It's past time we all noticed that there's no difference between these two anymore; they're all exactly the same people. They're all former classmates and golf partners. In other words the great ideological divide between us increasingly looks like a false dichotomy, and about the only thing keeping us from forming that formidable coalitionthat political philosopher Charles Daniels called "the cowboys and the hippies, the rebels and the yanks," is our mutual distaste. But look: I despise those feckless hippies and their goddamn drum circles, and I'm still going down there every day, because I feel like I can’t not be there. Even if you're not going, let me know what you think about all this. We may be the only two people on our respective sides who are in any contact with each other and as such we are like diplomats from two great powers at war. We should keep the lines of communication open.